Raven-Lyon Family Questions!!

[Gidget2]

After reading Jovian and granath and Domini talking about Cera etc, I thought that I'd do a family tree of the various families involved and then maybe granath could include it in her Towerdex (if I ask her super nicely LOL), or I could just post it somewhere and link to it.

I currently don't have any of my Talent books, so the current version is based on info from the Towerdex (which I love - I really do). It can be available now in PDF if anyone wants to see!

However, I have a few questions which I am hoping that some of you guys (who have access to your books!) can answer for me!!

1. How close are the Eagle cousins to the Ravens? Did a sister of Jeff's marry an Eagle and was the mother of Rhodri, Asia and the others?
2. Apart from Dean and Ian, are any other of Jeff's siblings mentioned by name or in passing, or even how many of them there are? I'm thinking that at the least a number is mentioned ....
3. Wasn't at least one of Isthia's sisters and her family mentioned? What about any other siblings of Isthia and her husband?
4. Talking of Isthia's husband, there is the Josh/Jerry discrepancy. Which is the better name to use, do you think?

[Greenrider Tresa]

1. sister works for me.
3. Think so. In The Rowan maybe? Else I'm getting things mixed up.
4. I kind of like how Jerry Raven sounds, but then I know a Jerry R... Just use the name mentioned first, or more often...

[Brenda]

I'm pretty sure that Isthia is mentioned as having stopped with a dozen children.

[Gidget2]

Originally Posted by Greenrider Tresa

1. sister works for me.

LOL Me too ...... Do we ever get a name, though?

3. Think so. In The Rowan maybe? Else I'm getting things mixed up.

Was her name Rozalla or something? ..... I'm sure it began with an R LOL

4. I kind of like how Jerry Raven sounds, but then I know a Jerry R... Just use the name mentioned first, or more often...

I also thought it was Jerry. I didn't even think of Josh until I read it on the Towerdex!!!!

Originally Posted by Brenda

I'm pretty sure that Isthia is mentioned as having stopped with a dozen children.

Oh yes! Ian made it 12, didn't he? I'm sure I remember a comment about "a round dozen" with regard to her children ..... Now do we have any other names or even general references other than Jeff, Dean and Ian?

Is Jeff the eldest?

[Multi-Facets]

Rakella.

[granath]

Yes, Rakella was one of the aunts. It's been a long, long time since I last read The Rowan, but I think that Dean and Rhodri (for whom Roddie Eagle(s) was named) were the only ones among Isthia's children to survive the Deneb invasion, in addition to baby Ian. So she lost 9 of them in the invasion.

[ghost8772]

Weren't the Eagles run off from Isthia's sister Besseva(or something close)?

[granath]

It's possible. In addition, the Sparrows (Clarence-Clancy, another cousin) are also somehow related to both the Eagles and the Ravens.

The word "cousin" is confusing. In Finnish the word only applies to first cousins of the first degree, any others need to be specified. We also don't count anyone beyond a third cousin as a cousin at all. The English term is very inclusive, and for some old noble families who keep detailed genealogies can potentially include people who are related through someone 50 generations back.

[ghost8772]

Originally Posted by granath

It's possible. In addition, the Sparrows (Clarence-Clancy, another cousin) are also somehow related to both the Eagles and the Ravens.

The word "cousin" is confusing. In Finnish the word only applies to first cousins of the first degree, any others need to be specified. We also don't count anyone beyond a third cousin as a cousin at all. The English term is very inclusive, and for some old noble families who keep detailed genealogies can potentially include people who are related through someone 50 generations back.

50 generations? that geneology would be what? the size of the Library at Alexandria? add annexes for your spouse.

[granath]

:p Possibly, but some English noble families were ennobled in around 1000 AD, and if you count an average of 25 years per generation, you got 40 right there.

[Gidget2]

Personally I have generally taken the word "cousin" in all of Anne's books as meaning just an extended family member and not the specific "child of parent's sibling" use.

I am lucky enough to have more than 50 generations in my tree, and using the basic setting for an Ancestor Tree in Family Tree Maker 2006, 50 generations (me + 49 generations of ancestors) creates a tree that is 10460cm x 266cm. Of course, that includes inter-family marriages that lead to a common ancestor for 2 people and not all of the branches stretch up to 49 generations, but you get an idea! In a hand-written scroll then that would be even larger!

Back on-topic (LOL) - thank you for Rakella and Besseva's names! Are any other details of their families given? And are any other of Jeff's siblings or nephews or nieces named or even mentioned in passing? I remember Rowan complaining about the lack of privacy at the Raven 'compound', but not any kinship details.

Oh, if only I had my books with me!!!!

[granath]

Not really. Crowding is obviously relative, for someone used to having her own private suite of rooms from the age of 12 onwards, being forced to share living space such as bathrooms with anyone other than one's spouse would probably be stressful. I have written up every character in the Towerdex who was mentioned even once.

[Gidget2]

Originally Posted by granath

Not really. Crowding is obviously relative, for someone used to having her own private suite of rooms from the age of 12 onwards, being forced to share living space such as bathrooms with anyone other than one's spouse would probably be stressful.

LOL That's quite true!

I have written up every character in the Towerdex who was mentioned even once.

And I can't be the only person who thinks your Towerdex is fantastic - and I have used it as a resource on more than one occasion! I didn't mean to imply at all that I was belittling it, or that I think it's 'incomplete' in any way!

[granath]

Thanks. I know you didn't. I'm just afraid that we'll probably never get the definite answer on the extended family trees of the Talents. Although that just gives more scope for writing...

[Gidget2]

Originally Posted by granath

Thanks. I know you didn't. I'm just afraid that we'll probably never get the definite answer on the extended family trees of the Talents. Although that just gives more scope for writing...

So if I did some ....... creative tinkering nobody would mind too much????

[granath]

I sure wouldn't. Anne might, though. :p

[Gidget2]

Originally Posted by granath

I sure wouldn't. Anne might, though. :p

ROFL Well there is that ........

[Brenda]

Wait a minute! I thought Ian was Jeff's nephew, not his sibling!

[D. M. Domini]

Nope. Ian is Jeff's littlest brother. (Rowan's brother was named Ian too.)

[kevia]

Originally Posted by Brenda

Wait a minute! I thought Ian was Jeff's nephew, not his sibling!

Ok, I thought I remembered something about this so I did some research. On pg 134 of The Rowan Jeff says he has a new nephew, but also states that he congratulated his mom. Also on pg 166, when she is feeding Ian, the Rowan tells Reidinger that she is feeding her nephew. But pg 125 refers to the fact that Isthia is expecting. On pg 149 Isthia is somewhat torn between the needs of "two sons," who are clearly Jeff and Ian. And on pg 161, clearly referring to Ian, Isthia says, "In one way I'm sorry he's the last of them. However, an even dozen was all I promised their father." And in Damia, on pg 165, when Isthia and Ian are waiting for Jeran, Cera, and Damia to arrive, Ian is referred to as her son, and, in fact, Jeran, Cera, and Damia are referred to as Ian's nephew and nieces. Ian is clearly Jeff's youngest brother and I'm afraid we have to regard the nephew referrences in The Rowan as Anneisms.

Is that as clear as mud?

[Multi-Facets]

The Anne-consistencies and Anneisms will one day become so confusing they'll give someone an Anne-urysm.

(badum-tish)

[GinnyStar]

Yes, there are a few too I know that Ian is the youngest and Jeff one of the oldest or the oldest "sigh", the books are not handy for reading right now I hope this helps.

[Cheryl]

The Ian-as-nephew references might not be Anne-isms, they could have resulted from a well-meaning editor who couldn't fathom that a child a generation younger than Jeff could be his brother. Some people just don't get familial relationships.

[granath]

Possible, but less likely than the alternative, given Anne's apparent inability to keep track of continuity.

[GinnyStar]

I have one for you big family my gradfather had 10 in his family
My mom had 2 brothers and 1 sister along with step-sisters and brothers how many off the top of my head I do not recall, One brother and two sister, for my grandfather first wife died young and he had found my grandmother and that is were my mother get her name from.

I well post more later.

[granath]

I know what you mean. Not really relevant to this thread, though.

OT: My mother is the oldest of 9 children and her youngest brother is nearly 20 years younger than she is. My mother had me when she was 26, not particularly young even for the 70s. However, my youngest uncle is now 42, as is his wife, and they just had a baby. So my youngest cousin is easily young enough to be my granddaughter, if I had had a child at 18 and my son or daughter had also had a child at 18.

[kevia]

My sil was a great-grandmother several years ago, while my dh and I are about to become grandparents for the first time in a matter of days.

[ghost8772]

well, congrats kevia.

big families, haven't had that experience. issues with being in a crowd would definitely hinder that for me.

okay, so Isthia, Besseva, and Rakella, I THINK Rakella was the Nurse on call in the Rowan for Jeff, Isthia is obviously his mother, and Besseva was mentioned in Lyon's Pride? or was she in Damia? know they only mentioned them when dialogue was occuring on Deneb.

[Gidget2]

Originally Posted by ghost8772

okay, so Isthia, Besseva, and Rakella, I THINK Rakella was the Nurse on call in the Rowan for Jeff, Isthia is obviously his mother, and Besseva was mentioned in Lyon's Pride? or was she in Damia? know they only mentioned them when dialogue was occuring on Deneb.

I think she (Besseva) was mentioned in the second Mind Merge (although just in passing) when Rowan recognised her.

I would imagine she would be mentioned in Damia because, as you say, she was generally only mentioned when Deneb was the focus.