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Old Aug 1 2021, 12:57 PM   #1
Violetlight
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Default Why don't Golds and their riders train with the other Weyrlings?

Not much is shown in any of the canon books about Weyrling training whatsoever (usually they just show nervous candidates, then the short story ends or the novel timeskips after they Impress), but it seems that Gold Riders *aren't* put in the Weyrling barracks when their dragons are still hatchlings, and don't train with the other Weyrlings, like at all. The former is kind of understandable, especially in the eras where goldriders were the only female riders, but the latter is strange.

Golds have all the basic needs as any other colour dragon. They still need to be fed, oiled, bathed, and learn to fly and go Between. So why not have them train with their clutchmates?

With Lessa's case it was somewhat understandable, as R'gul was trying to keep her and Ramoth isolated from the other dragonriders for his own political gain, and seems to have no memory of any other goldrider than the acrophobic Jora (never mind that tMoP implies the Weyrwoman before her had no such hangups, and R'gul is old enough to remember her). However, it doesn't explain why later junior weyrwomen aren't trained alongside their clutchmates, or if they are, why the books never mention it. Like, Mirrim could have made friends with the junior weyrwoman from Path's clutch if that separation hadn't happened.

It just seems like the goldriders are purposefully isolated from other dragonriders, and that can only screw up the managerial tasks they're supposed to take on later, if they're being discouraged from interacting with and relating to their fellow riders.
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Old Aug 8 2021, 08:21 PM   #2
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Gold Re: Why don't Golds and their riders train with the other Weyrlings?

In Dragonflight, there's the thought that Golds do not fly, even though that tapestry in the Hold depicted Golds mid-air during thread (low to the ground and carrying strange objects)! Until Lessa appeared so radiantly in white, high above the crowd
near the Weyr, threw that thought between. If I remember, it was F'lar that took on most of Lessa and Ramoth's training (between for example). Maybe the bronze riders look after the Queens ? Training, I mean ...:-)
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Old Aug 8 2021, 09:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why don't Golds and their riders train with the other Weyrlings?

"Dragonflight" is the exception, however, and even then, Lessa muses to herself that she found it strange that she didn't train with the other weyrlings.

I'm wondering if future junior goldriders had the same difficulty, especially after the Oldtimers came foreword. It just seems that we're never given much info about goldrider training (or any weyrling training, for that matter) in general, unless Todd's books touch on the matter.
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Old Aug 9 2021, 06:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why don't Golds and their riders train with the other Weyrlings?

It would make sense for much of their training to be with the rest of the weyrlings, as dragon care is the same for all. But thread-fighting is different in the queen's wing, so that could be partially or fully separate. And there are so many extra duties the queenriders do, and even more to potentially do if they are ever Sr. WW - so different training necessary for that.

I don't know that we see enough of weyrling training after Lessa to see how things changed after her.
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Old Aug 14 2021, 12:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: Why don't Golds and their riders train with the other Weyrlings?

One thing is that any dragon well listen to a queen, and the senior queen has the most power,, The duity of the queen/golds riders are different durng different times on Pern.

Nursing for that can do, like in Moreta

RKeeping of the Records, Leir did that so MorMoreta could do healing of the dragons, She learn form Ind the healder, and explained on that.

During the time when theyh had femaile dragonridres tath could not go between, the ones that gold between so much fought in the queen wings, and the golds suprived this.. in the Sean like the speader green out for the ridres wher taking leave, but it depend on the Wyerleader wanted the. More later, I hope that you can understand what I am trying to say here.
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Old Aug 19 2021, 05:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why don't Golds and their riders train with the other Weyrlings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Violetlight View Post
With Lessa's case it was somewhat understandable, as R'gul was trying to keep her and Ramoth isolated from the other dragonriders for his own political gain, and seems to have no memory of any other goldrider than the acrophobic Jora (never mind that tMoP implies the Weyrwoman before her had no such hangups, and R'gul is old enough to remember her). However, it doesn't explain why later junior weyrwomen aren't trained alongside their clutchmates, or if they are, why the books never mention it. Like, Mirrim could have made friends with the junior weyrwoman from Path's clutch if that separation hadn't happened.
Regarding Mirrim: pretty sure her Clutch didn't have a queen egg? So wouldn't have made much of a difference in her case.

I've kind of assumed that outside of Lessa's experience, queen riders will train under the Weyrlingmaster with the rest of the weyrlings for the first year and then do additional training under the Senior Weyrwoman and any more experienced junior weyrwomen until her Queen reaches maturity. The other colours seems to reach full maturity at the year mark, whereas the queens don't seem to until 2 1/2 - 3 years of age so that's the system that would make a fair bit of sense to me.

The material in Anne's books is unfortunately pretty short on the matter for newly hatched queens at a time when queens are plentiful; bronze (and some brown) riders seem take an interest in queen weyrlings from the beginning. I think Talina and Arwith are seen bathing guarded by two bronzes during the Hatching Feast, for instance, and the hatching in All The Weyrs of Pern has at least one of the disappointed candidates being whisked off by some bronze rider before Lessa can even make it to her to give condolences.
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Old Sep 2 2021, 07:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: Why don't Golds and their riders train with the other Weyrlings?

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One thing is that any dragon well listen to a queen, and the senior queen has the most power,, The duity of the queen/golds riders are different durng different times on Pern.

Nursing for that can do, like in Moreta

RKeeping of the Records, Leir did that so MorMoreta could do healing of the dragons, She learn form Ind the healder, and explained on that.

During the time when theyh had femaile dragonridres tath could not go between, the ones that gold between so much fought in the queen wings, and the golds suprived this.. in the Sean like the speader green out for the ridres wher taking leave, but it depend on the Wyerleader wanted the. More later, I hope that you can understand what I am trying to say here.
I am sorry to lleave a post half done, I am having some problems with my keyboard so I lI forgot, I had this one, up.
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Old Dec 27 2021, 12:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Why don't Golds and their riders train with the other Weyrlings?

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Originally Posted by Blue Rider 16 View Post
I've kind of assumed that outside of Lessa's experience, queen riders will train under the Weyrlingmaster with the rest of the weyrlings for the first year and then do additional training under the Senior Weyrwoman and any more experienced junior weyrwomen until her Queen reaches maturity. The other colours seems to reach full maturity at the year mark, whereas the queens don't seem to until 2 1/2 - 3 years of age so that's the system that would make a fair bit of sense to me.
This seems reasonable to me. They're going to have the same requirements up to a point. Once the basics are covered and the other weyrlings start training for thread fighting, just split the queen rider off into individual training with another gold rider to learn their unique thread fighting methods and other responsibilities.
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Old Dec 29 2021, 06:42 AM   #9
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Default Re: Why don't Golds and their riders train with the other Weyrlings?

Another thought that comes to me is that queens, as egg-layers, might have different proportions to the fighting dragons, so would need different flying instructions. In weyrs with more than one queen, I should imagine that the training of a queen hatchling and her rider would be the responsibility of the weyrwoman or a senior queen rider. Part of Jora's problem would then have been the lack of a senior rider to instruct her properly in the care of her queen.
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Old Mar 9 2022, 12:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why don't Golds and their riders train with the other Weyrlings?

There are two different Weyr situations: Benden and a normal weyr.

In Benden, the sole Gold must be protected, so it is kept apart from the other hatchlings. Training is in the hands of the Bronze riders, with the Weyrleader taking on most of the instruction.

In a normal weyr, the newly Impressed Gold is moved into one of the Gold weyrs and the junior Weyrwoman begins to train her in dragon care and her other duties. As she progresses, additional responsibilities are added. They are a special class, and the training and development is very different from the regular fighting dragons. It is the other Weyrwomen who train the new Gold rider as each of them had been trained before, because each will eventually become the senior Weyrwoman governing the Weyr.

Last edited by Kennet; Mar 9 2022 at 12:36 AM. Reason: addendum
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