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View Poll Results: Should Todd's work be considered canon?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! 27 26.47%
ABSOLUTELY YES!!! 30 29.41%
Only some of it. 14 13.73%
Not without a LOT of work and better explanations. 31 30.39%
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Mar 31 2006, 03:02 PM   #1
Brenda
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Default Should Todd's books be considered canon?

There's been a lot of discussion of discrepancies between Todd's books and Anne's books, so I thought I'd start a poll just to see how many people have which opinion.
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Old Mar 31 2006, 03:32 PM   #2
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Not without a LOT of work and better explanations. If he'd done a better job of sticking to established rules and things making sense, plus no Mary Sues, I would have accepted it as canon. But as it is right now, no bleedin' way.
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Old Mar 31 2006, 04:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

I agree with you Spiff
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Old Mar 31 2006, 04:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

I said no, and meant no.
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Old Mar 31 2006, 05:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

With work, possibly.
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Old Mar 31 2006, 06:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Some better explainations perhaps could certainly be useful--but then, so many of Anne's books could have used more, too
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Old Mar 31 2006, 10:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Anne's works at least have some degree of internal consistency. Todd's, which are supposed to work within that consistency, would be shredded unmercifully were they posted as fan fic. I said "With a lot of work and explaining". As in an explanation of WTF was he thinking?!?!
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Old Apr 1 2006, 05:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

all authors have their own strengths, and Todd isnt the same as Anne. But, all things considered, all of the things said do not contradict anything said in the history of the dragonriders of pern. I really think that its good to have another person write in this very private universe, as long as it doesn't end up as shared a topic as Star Wars.
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Old Apr 1 2006, 10:33 AM   #9
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Honestly? Much as I may have complained (publically, vocally, to some of those actually concerned in the matter) about the Bantam line of Star Wars novels, it would be far, far better to bring in authors who not only are familiar with working in a shared universe but who, frankly, are better writers than Todd. (Well, as long as it's not Kevin Anderson. Then again, and I can't believe I'm about to say this, he's at least more readable than Todd.)

No contradictions? Did you read Dragonsblood? There are dozens of threads here and on NKT (assuming it'll open for you) about the inconsistencies between DB, DK, and pretty much all the other books. Honestly I think keeping it a family business is proving to be a major mistake, as Anne apparently either can't be objective about Todd's writing or just doesn't care.
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Old Apr 2 2006, 05:45 AM   #10
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Hmmm....
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Old Apr 3 2006, 03:24 AM   #11
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

As much as I'd like to say no, I'm afraid it has to be yes. But they do need a helluva lot of work-arounds.

Still, even if it IS canon, there's nothing to stop the rest of us playing in the well established, pre-Skies (Bah! to TK...) Anne-Pern.
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Old Apr 3 2006, 05:01 AM   #12
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath
As much as I'd like to say no, I'm afraid it has to be yes. But they do need a helluva lot of work-arounds.

Still, even if it IS canon, there's nothing to stop the rest of us playing in the well established, pre-Skies (Bah! to TK...) Anne-Pern.
Well... didn't they always have TK? Ever since The White Dragon, "A dragon can lift/carry whatever he thinks he can."
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Old Apr 3 2006, 06:14 AM   #13
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

True... What's wrong with TK anyway?
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Old Apr 3 2006, 06:44 AM   #14
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Yeah yeah, I know TK's been hinted at long enough. It's just the way it was introduced that bugged me.
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Old Apr 3 2006, 02:44 PM   #15
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

I don't like that it's a gimmick to allow Golanth to fly after his injuries - but I do like the idea that unconscious TK is what allows dragons to fly at all!
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Old Apr 4 2006, 04:14 AM   #16
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Yes.

If Anne says his books are offical, and "canon" then that is good enough for me.
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Old Apr 4 2006, 04:26 AM   #17
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Absolutely not. No. Never. No way. Not in a million years.

For all of Todd's fans and defenders, I still haven't been able to get rid of DK... And I was offering it low price, probably only postage, AND it's HC and first edition...
Say anything to ya?

Call his stories what they are, Fan Fics, then let's all hope that Anne just sees what he is doing to her Pern and lets someone else stand in instead. Hopefully the DragonChoice team!
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Old Apr 4 2006, 02:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Platinum
Absolutely not. No. Never. No way. Not in a million years.

For all of Todd's fans and defenders, I still haven't been able to get rid of DK... And I was offering it low price, probably only postage, AND it's HC and first edition...
Say anything to ya?

Call his stories what they are, Fan Fics, then let's all hope that Anne just sees what he is doing to her Pern and lets someone else stand in instead. Hopefully the DragonChoice team!
Yes, what it says to me is that the people who want his book have already got it.

DragonChoice to me will only ever be fan-fiction. It lacks something that Dragon's Kin and Dragonsblood both have: Anne's input.
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Old Apr 4 2006, 03:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayru
DragonChoice to me will only ever be fan-fiction. It lacks something that Dragon's Kin and Dragonsblood both have: Anne's input.
Aha! That's why we keep disagreeing!

You seem to enjoy any Pern output, so long as it's Anne's.
Whereas I only enjoy the stories which are actually well written...

[Where's a tongue-in-cheek smilie when I really need one, eh? Anyway, my responses to your posts will now be correctly calibrated, and we'll probably cause each other much less hassle that way.]
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Old Apr 4 2006, 03:08 PM   #20
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

As I understand the McCaffrey household, Anne has/had this humongous pile of notes (hopefully inputted into a PC for ease of referencing) about her worlds---Pern, Crystal Singer, Ship series, Doona, Planet Pirates, etc.

Since Todd has complete, full and unfettered access to those notes, and each and everyone of us DO NOT, that should certainly count for something

For any of us to do FanFict that would be acceptable to others here, we HAVE TO STAY WITHIN canon, or provide the appropriate disclaimer that the work we do is NOT canon. We CANNOT provide any additional insights, discoveries, lost tech that the colonists and natives would interact with WITHOUT violating established canon. Period.

I'm not saying that we couldn't be better writers than Todd--but he DOES have the background and full info as to what's valid and what's not valid for Pern. In addition, he has Anne's full backing to continue the series. THOSE NOTES OF ANNE'S SAYS WHAT IS AND IS NOT CANON!

Therefore, anything that Todd introduces to the Pernese, what they are able to discover, lose, misuse, misunderstand--those things, we have to accept as most likely coming from those notes, and are therefore, by definition, are canon.

Just to make it clear: I'm not a fan of Todd. I'm not one of his defenders. I am, however, a fan of Anne's. When everyone was freaking about Pern being turned into film, many of the same people saying that Pern was going to be ruined if is didn't look like what THEY imagined it to look like--EVEN IF ANNE SAID THAT LOOK WAS WHAT SHE WANTED! The fact is, as much as I want to see Pern in film, I KNOW it will NEVER meet MY expectations---and that's just fine with me, so long as it meets Anne's!---The ONLY way that a version of Pern on film will be ruined for me is IF ANNE SAYS THAT IT'S NOT WHAT SHE WANTS!

I'm sorry. But evidently, some folk can't accept that THIS IS Anne's property. It doesn't belong to us! It belongs to HER! She and Todd have worked out how the series should progress, and she obviously approves of it. We have to understand that writing is very hard work and that Anne has become comfortable enough to let Todd drive for awhile.

If her lawyers had allowed her to see some of our work, then maybe, JUST MAYBE, she would've trusted someone else to do so--but it didn't happen and we'll never know. Tough. Get over it. Truth be told, there were other PROFESSIONAL writers that she collaborated with in the past, and NONE of them were sufficient for her to trust with Pern. That should also carry some weight for us to accept her decission.

And as much as I feel that I could probably do a better job with Pern than Todd, I have accepted that decission. But one thing I know that I cannot do is psycically know what are in those notes, and therefore, it's impossible for me to prove it, because NOTHING I WRITE WOULD BE CANON, unless I endlessly regurgitate what was set in established publications--and even then.... And I'm sorry, but the same has to be said about anyone else here--be it the authors of "Peggeth's Choice", "Dragonchoice", or any other FanFic--no matter how good those authors are.
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Old Apr 4 2006, 03:11 PM   #21
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Oh please...
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Old Apr 4 2006, 03:46 PM   #22
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Todd may have ACCESS to Anne's notes, but who's to say he's using them, or even interpreting them properly With how he has a VERY twisted view on green firelizard's fertility and gold's ability to flame, (not to mention myriad other problems) seems he's not making good use of them at all... I'm not stating this as FACT in case someone accuses me (you know who you are) I'm just sayin' it looks awfully suspicious. And not just on the "canon" issues, but it just seems like he doesn't use his thinker much either. I don't know the whole picture with whers eating thread and firestone exploding with water, but still... geeeeeeze!
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Old Apr 4 2006, 03:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

I don't consider fan fiction, such as Dragonchoice, canon. But that does not mean that Dragon's Kin or Dragonsblood has to be considered so, just because they bear the McCaffrey name. Anne owns Pern, but it is only through fans and buyers of her output that Pern was developed. And if that doesn't gives us the right to at least argue about, and interpret it in our own ways, then I don't know what does!
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Old Apr 4 2006, 05:16 PM   #24
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayru
DragonChoice to me will only ever be fan-fiction. It lacks something that Dragon's Kin and Dragonsblood both have: Anne's input.
Thank all the gods that be for that!
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Old Apr 4 2006, 06:30 PM   #25
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath
Aha! That's why we keep disagreeing!

You seem to enjoy any Pern output, so long as it's Anne's.
Whereas I only enjoy the stories which are actually well written...

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Old Apr 4 2006, 07:26 PM   #26
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath
Aha! That's why we keep disagreeing!

You seem to enjoy any Pern output, so long as it's Anne's.
Whereas I only enjoy the stories which are actually well written...

[Where's a tongue-in-cheek smilie when I really need one, eh? Anyway, my responses to your posts will now be correctly calibrated, and we'll probably cause each other much less hassle that way.]
Feeble. Very much so.

There's always one...

I am neither embarrased or ashamed to say that I enjoy ANNE's vision of Pern, and Todds. Well written? They must have been, or I wouldn;t have bothered finishing them, or enjoyed them.

As to the insinuation that I will read anything... (and aside from the fact that once again you are making assumptions with very little information, tut tut - you're right a tongue-in-cheek smilie would be useful) I do not like all of Anne's books. I can't stand the Tower and Hive series - but then other people think they're fantastic. Not that I'm gonna bitch about it, I figure the world would be a really boring place if we all liked the same things, or thought the same way.

You're entitled to your opinion, and so am I. Feel free to let me, and the rest of the people on MOM, know why your opinion is more valid and important, if you need to.

I wont try and change your mind, or be stupid enough to make insinuations about what you might read. I think we should have the freedom to choose.

What makes me laugh the most at the people bitching the loudest about Todd's books is that they have got what they want; "DragonChoice." They can go and read that, and those of who are happy with Todd's books can go and read them, and those who are happy with both, can read both. Everybody gets what they want. Anything else would be selfish wouldn't it?

Lets say - just for speculation purposes, that the bitchers and whiners get what they want, and Todd stops writing Pern. What makes you think that Anne will pick someone else to do it? What makes you think that she will authorise DragonChoice as the next Pern novel? In likely hood all that would be achived is no more Pern.

Well, some of you have said that's what you want. But none of the people who've said this have taken into account that they are only speaking for themselves, becasue you sure as heck don't speak for all of us. The people who sign up to forums to talk about Pern represent a fraction of the fans, not all of them. I resent the idea that a minority of people, and trust me you are a minority, feel you can speak and act for us all.

Todd has been signed to write two more solo Pern novels, as well as more joint books with his mother. If they weren't selling Random House wouldn't bother with them. After all, they're a business - and they are not going to put money into more books if they know they wont sell, will they?

So I think we have a choice - if you feel DragonChoice is the right way to go, then sign up to that web-site and enjoy it. If you enjoy Todd and Annes books, then go ahead and buy them and enjoy them. If you like both, then give youself a hug becasue you've got the best of both worlds.

I'm sure someone will reply to this and tell me how I've missed the point, and how Todds books don't fit (in there own opinion of course) and blah blah blah. Which of course means they will have totally missed the point of the above.
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Old Apr 4 2006, 07:42 PM   #27
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

I have nothing against Todd writing Pern, but I would just like him to do it in a way that fits more into the rest of them.
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Old Apr 4 2006, 08:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Did you miss the bit in Kath's post about needing a tongue-in-cheek smilie, Jayru? Because I think she was implying with that aside that she was kidding. Though that's certainly what your post implied--that as long as Anne had input into a Pern book, you'll read it and call it good. Obviously you think that they are well-written. And then you imply that a book must be well-written if YOU finished and enjoyed it. Perhaps you are also in need of the tongue in cheek smilie? I have plenty of books that I've found enjoyable that I know as a writer are utter crap in terms of writing quality. (The Dragonlance books spring to mind. They're scripted D&D adventures, basically, but for mindless summer reading? They're tops.) Anne's books are not crap, but they are not (with the possible exception of "The Ship Who Sang") great literature, even within the genre. They're entertaining, but they aren't great writing.

And while I would never suggeest that Anne make Dragonchoice canon (the retconning required to fit it into Pern canon would make the shoehorning required for MHoP or DB look like nothing) I stand by what I've said--it would be better to bring a professional author with more of their own credits than Todd has. As far as I can find his only other credits are hard/mil SF and there aren't many of them. He is lacking most notably in the one area where his mother excells--characterization.

And if she didn't pick ANYONE to keep writing it? You know, I think I could go on with my daily life just fine. There are dozens of other genre authors out there. Many of whom have stories that are *gasp* better than Pern! Not to mention other genres to read. I am not so slavishly addicted to any one series that I'll keep paying for ANYTHING, just so long as it has Pern in it. I'm far more fond of Star Wars than of Pern and I quit shelling out for any old shlock there long ago. Nor do I say that "Well, George said it was okay and therefore it's good!" (See: entire plot of "Attack of the Clones" except maybe the parts about Kamino.)

There is objective good and objective bad. Liking something does not mean that it is objectively well-written or logical.

As for 'thinking about other fans', I hate to say it, but no, I don't worry about "OMG, if enough of us say that we don't like Pern and it never gets written any more there are other fans out there who might be sad!!!!1eleventy" First, as you point out, this is a minority. YOU are part of a minority. The vast majority of people who have read Pern and buy the books do not bother going on-line to discuss it. They also would likely not feel more than a minor "Oh, well" if there were never any more Pern books, ever. I can safely say this as I'm the daughter of one of those readers. My mother, who introduced me to Pern and enjoyed most of the books, could happily continue with her life if there was never any more Pern, ever. And in my experience, she's a much more typical reader. There are even those who once liked the books (like my friend Dunc) who have actually already quit reading them. The vast majority of Pern readers just don't care that much. Because they have plenty of other books to read.

And actually, publishers put money into books that don't actually make them tons of money all the time. I would suspect that the older Pern books (the ones that made bestseller lists, TWD, for example), who have long ago earned out, contribute rather a lot to supporting the entries in the series, and other authors' the congolomerate puts out who don't earn out their advance. Usually only a few titles a year (usually non-genre, or at least non-SF/F) actually make a substantial profit. The profit THEY make allow the publisher to run books that either are a first-time author risk, or which have an audience but not a substantial one.
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Old Apr 5 2006, 03:49 AM   #29
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

There's lots of people who might not know or forego the fact that Anne appointed two "heirs to Pern": her son Todd and her daughter Georgeanne. Since Gigi has been one of Anne's proofreaders, helpers and critics for a long time now (and a published authro in her own right) I'd be interested in a Pern story or book by her hand very much as, like so many others, I'm not impressed by Todd's skills as an author.

Like Jayru, I'll "eat" anything officially Pern (which Todd's book and the one that he co-wrote with his mother undboubtedbly are), even if it was only for the new character names. I always feel the need to read the book or story at least once or twice to form an opinion of course and after that, ah well, I'm a Pern Collector.
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Old Apr 5 2006, 06:26 AM   #30
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Why do some of you find it so hard to accept that people can enjoy Todds books? Why does it always come down to someone saying something along the lines of "you must enjoy bad books" or "you must read anything."

It's increadable insulting, and increadable rude. It's implys a lot of things - that really ammount to little more than assumptions about someone they do not know.

But then, that's the point isn't it?
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Old Apr 5 2006, 11:05 AM   #31
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Jayru is right. I don't like Todd's books nor the way he handles Pern nor his style of writing and I would certainly not recommend them to others but... as Jayru is now I was "attacked" / frowned upon on old KT when I said I like each and every book Anne wrote (one far more than another of course, but still)

So while I actually agree with the people who don't like what Todd has writen I'm also agreeing with Jayru: to each his own and I won't look down upon someone who likes Todd's writings.

Heck, I've read about many a book in the "what have you been reading lately" thread on amcf about which I thought: are you reading that crap?
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Old Apr 5 2006, 11:22 AM   #32
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Hans = a voice of reason

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Old Apr 5 2006, 12:24 PM   #33
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayru
Hans = a voice of reason

As opposed to your snarkiness?

Just so it's clear, you can love Todd's writing to the extent of having it tattooed on your backside as far as I care, that's your choice. I dislike his ideas for Pern, maybe I would enjoy his non Pern. Who knows till I read one! If people want to like them that is fine, their choice, but you don't see ME snarking and bitching at people for liking them and I would certainly not want to put up with someone saying I am intolerable of other's choices just because I don't like those choices. What gives people the right to complain about another's likes or dislikes? Neither do I attack people with other ideas to myself, let people like what they like, no amount of posting by you or anyone else will get them to like what you like...

So I start to ramble on
Basically, not everyone will love Todd so there is no reason for you or anyone else to feel all slighted by the fact. That should put paid to this need to accuse everyone else of trying to make Todd's writing bad for everyone!
Everyone happy, Anne and Todd fans alike!
I dislike his books, you like em, I like Tower and Hive, you don't... No need to bitch and snark at each other though is there?!



Anareth, I'm with you. There ARE other genres out there, some of which I love a lot more than Pern. Discworld for example, and the Xanth books. Pern is my favourite dragon fix tho Although saying that... I love Graham Edwards' books too lol
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Old Apr 5 2006, 02:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayru
Why do some of you find it so hard to accept that people can enjoy Todds books? Why does it always come down to someone saying something along the lines of "you must enjoy bad books" or "you must read anything."

It's increadable insulting, and increadable rude. It's implys a lot of things - that really ammount to little more than assumptions about someone they do not know.

But then, that's the point isn't it?
Please point out where you have been accused of enjoying bad books, or reading anything. Because I'm missing something here - I haven't read any post that actually says, in big bold letters:

HEY EVERYONE! LOOKY HERE!!! THIS JAYRU DUDE, HEY, HE READS BAD BOOKS . . .AND LIKES THEM!!!ELEVENTYONE! THIS GUY MUST READ ANYTHING!

Your statement up there? Looks more like a paranoid delusion.

Just because other people won't come around to your point of view? Means nothing. It means that they have a different opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Yet, I get the impression that when you say everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it means that it's entitled as long as it agrees with yours.

Kath jokes about liking well-written books, admits to joking, and yet you are still snarking about her remarks. Which I find incredibly petty, rude and small.
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Old Apr 5 2006, 03:55 PM   #35
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Kath - Marry me.

I'll have to check with the husband about that one!

Dagnabbit! Forgot to log in again...
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Old Apr 5 2006, 04:08 PM   #36
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anareth
Did you miss the bit in Kath's post about needing a tongue-in-cheek smilie, Jayru? Because I think she was implying with that aside that she was kidding.
Yes, indeed I was. Ah well - I'm reminded of a similar thread I posted in back on the NewKT. At that time, I honestly thought I was being hypothetical... that'll teach me!
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Old Apr 6 2006, 04:25 AM   #37
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

I posted an honest, levelling post and I'm asking Plat and Shalyn to desist the kind of posting that only serves fuelling the arguement in a wrong way.
At this moment in the thread there was no need to restart posting in the way and language you did.

I'm asking politely only once.
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Old Apr 6 2006, 04:55 AM   #38
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2cent Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

My post was clearly there to try and stop the snarking and bitching, I didn;t attack anyone for liking Todd, nor did I tell Jayru to shut up and stop being an idiot. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I was trying to make that clear so the snarking will stop. It's not there to say 'Jayru you're an idiot and everyoneels is right so there and shut up' it's just to make it clear that I personally don't like Todd's Pern, and that Jayru does, therefore people will like different things and no amount of telling them otherwise will help.

That is why I said "I dislike his books, you like em, I like Tower and Hive, you don't... No need to bitch and snark at each other though is there?!" and not something else. Not a nasty post at all, and I am sick to the death of being flaming well misunderstood for everything I post at the moment. It is getting ridiculous now. I post, trying to stop something and I get told off, people post in rude and insulting manners and are left to it
How very fair
SO fair indeed

And I apologise for any language, though I do try and use very mild stuff and I thought that bitching was mild enough to stand, there are a lot worse. But I apologise anyway, and will refrain from posting at all as everything I say gets misconstrued and twisted so I am the bad guy and the people who post in a nasty manner obviously aren't.

Well, thanks for letting me visit Cheryl, this is a great place and I hope it remains thriving! Maybe once I have learned to post in a rude manner and be loved for it I will be back!

There Hans, you don't even have to ask again, I'll just go so you don't have to ban me, cos that's what will happen cos of my posting style
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Old Apr 6 2006, 05:43 AM   #39
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans
I posted an honest, levelling post and I'm asking Plat and Shalyn to desist the kind of posting that only serves fuelling the arguement in a wrong way.
At this moment in the thread there was no need to restart posting in the way and language you did.

I'm asking politely only once.
Hey, they were just sticking up for me, and the opinion I espoused, nothing more than that.

If the tone of my post wasn't clear enough, to the extent that they felt they had to back me up, that's my fault, not theirs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans
as Jayru is now I was "attacked"
[Bold added by me]

Huh?

None of us was attacking Jayru. I was simply expressing an opposing point of view, in a light-hearted manner. As to whether I look down on anyone for having a different point of view... well... the opinions people express will colour the opinion I hold about them, but I do try, very hard, not to let it affect my subsequent posts adversely.

I appreciate that someone here had to stand up in support of Jayru as well, not just because they agree withn him, but also to stop him being unjustly snowed under by the rest of us, if nothing else. I'm actually reassured that the MOM staff care enough to do so.

But I'd like to think that you, Hans, can see both sides, and realise that any antagonism being perceived is really quite insubstantial.
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Old Apr 6 2006, 08:10 PM   #40
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Default Re: Should Todd's books be considered canon?

Thank you Kath.

I do have to agree with what Plat said, though. Oh, except for the leaving. I'm not leaving unless you ban me. Which, well, I guess is going to be next, since I do use 'language' when I post.

And, well, maybe I'm not seeing things right, but I think that the roles of "attackee" and "attacker" have been misread.
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