Dragon eggs and hatchling size

[B'ney]

Does anyone know of a chart that might show dragon eggs size in proportion to humans? I know there's the picture of the gold egg in DLG but I'm not sure that's quite right. Why? Because elsewhere in DLG it says the first dragons (Faranth etc) were 10 to 12 feet long. Which means that they egg size would have been what, approx. 4 - 6 feet long? The egg in DLG looks to be about 6 foot long.

Nonetheless, how big do you think a gold, bronze, brown, blue and green might be upon hatching? And how big do you think the eggs might be?

Any theories?

[monkeysrule]

You know, I have no idea. I've been wondering the same thing. And I haev no idea how big the hatchlings are, either.

[Cheryl]

Anne seems to describe the hatchlings as pretty big - just read Ramoth's impression scene where she claws a girl from head to toe. But the size of the eggs/hatchlings seems to me to be at odds with the size of clutches - in terms of a gold dragon carrying that many eggs of that size...

[B'ney]

Well the eggs are soft at the time of laying so that would help with having them all crammed up inside the gold. *grin*

I've always imagined a dragon clutch, when first layed, looking like a turtle's clutch, with the eggs very soft and pliable and slimy (although I don't think AM mentions that but there's got to be some sort of birthing fluid to ease the eggs out!).

I guess I'm thinking that a gold hatchling would be the size of a draft horse while a green would be more like a shetland pony. In Dragonflight, it says: ". . .grabbing for the wedge head, at birth not much larger than her [Lessa] own torso."

In DLG, in "The Impression" the story about Felessan Impressing Golanth, it says: ". . as he knelt and touched the young dragon's upturned face." The hatchling in question is a bronze and the boy is a minecraft lad but no age is given. That sounds more like the bronze hatchling is the size of a large dog, maybe a great dane or wolfhound. Further in the same story it talks about a brown hatchling. "Catrul was on his hands and knees on the sand. . . Staring lovingly up at him was a very small dragonet." That sounds more like the dragon as the size of a small dog.

Oops! Also in DLG indicates that (under The care and feeding of a young dragon) the all the eggs are a meter long.

It then says that the gold egg's are 10 - 20% bigger. So I guess that does answer my question. . .just doesn't seem quite right though, but I guess that's why a gold can clutch 30'thing eggs!

*shrug*

[monkeysrule]

That seems about right to me. I've always imagined them about that size.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I imagine the eggs as being 3 - 5 feet long, depending on color, and hatchling's length, head to tail, ranging between 5 and 9 feet long.

[edith]

doesn't Lessa say something in df about Ramoth being too heavy to carry anymore?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Something along those lines. But even if Ramoth was 9 feet long at hatching, half of that is tail, and the neck would likely be quite thin at that age, and the rest is quite thin too until they fill out later, so I don't think it would be too far fetched for her to be able to carry Ramoth, even though Lessa was always rather slight. And since gravity on Pern is around 10% less than on Earth, and dragon's systems are lighter overall than Terran creatures, that makes it even easier

[Cheryl]

I worry less about how they carry the mass (especially as we know dragons can carry as much as they think they can) and more about where they carry that volume!

I think we have contradictory info on how hard the eggs are when laid: several passages tell us that the eggs harden over time, but I thought that in Moreta we have a description of seeing individual eggs pressed up against Orlith's skin - which seems to say they are hard.


When it comes to firelizards, the size eggs vs. number clutched seems even less plausible, unless firelizards are a good deal larger then we think.

[B'ney]

Thanks for all the responses!

I just found another forum and on that one there was a link to a club that had created this wonderful chart about dragon size at hatching and on until they're full grown. Just thought I'd share the link with you.

http://www.rockycrater.org/dragon-sizechart.php

It gives you a general idea anyway.

[edith]

interesting...
I hope they weren't using some of the covers I've seen. UK Moreta has Orlith on the next mountain! sort of thing!

[Brenda]

I don't know if "average size" refers to length or height.

Regarding fire lizard eggs, Menolly was able to carry three in one hand while climbing a cliff. I picture them pretty small - not even golf-ball size. Baby fire lizards must be really tiny!

[Cheryl]

Yes, but then how many spiderclaws did Menolly stuff each of her impressees with?

[edith]

how big are spiderclaws anyway?
far as I can tell baby firelizards seem to expand to fit the food!

[Brenda]

I picture spiderclaws as a cross between a crab and a lobster, maybe closer to a crawfish; long, with multiple legs, but not with huge claws. I don't picture them being really large - maybe 1 1/2 by 4 inches in the main shell. Once you get past the shell of a crawfish, how much meat is there?

[monkeysrule]

I picture them to be a many-legged versions of those tiny 1'' crabs that you find in tidepools.

[edith]

ooh, ooh, ooh

DDawn gives sizes!
Bay's Mariah is described when hatched as head resting on hand, body length of forearm and tail curling up upper arm

[Spaceman Spiff]

Originally Posted by edith

ooh, ooh, ooh

DDawn gives sizes!
Bay's Mariah is described when hatched as head resting on hand, body length of forearm and tail curling up upper arm

That can't be right! That sounds more like an adolescent firelizard! Adults were supposed to be the length of a grown man's arm. If the hatchlings are that large, the mother would have a rough time containing and passing a single egg! I've always imagined hatchlings being the length of a hand, and eggs about ping pong ball size.

[edith]

here you are... its on pg 115 of the UK Bantam hardback towards he end of chap 6:

"...cradled a lovely golden dragonet on her forearm. Its head was an ornament on the back of her hand, its forearms loosely encircled her wrist. Fortunately its extended belly had support from Bay's well-fleshed limb, its hindlegs dangled by her elbow and its tail was lightly twined around her upper arm."

this was 20 mins after hatching so she'd've filled out a little!

praps someone needs to look at crocs and snakes for a comparison. I can't i'm off in a couple of hours for 3 days.

[Brenda]

Adults were supposed to be the length of a grown man's arm.

Does that include the tail? Fire lizards are not very big around even in the body, and they have very long tails. Also, Bay was not a very large woman; I can see a grown man's arm being at least 4 or 5 inches longer than hers.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Originally Posted by Brenda

Does that include the tail? Fire lizards are not very big around even in the body, and they have very long tails. Also, Bay was not a very large woman; I can see a grown man's arm being at least 4 or 5 inches longer than hers.

I'd always assumed it had been with the tails... and if the hatchlings are that large, just how large are adults?! Menolly was able to have a gold fit comfortably on her shoulder while handling others, they can't have been THAT big!

I think the DD quote has to be an Anne-consistancy thing

[Myt]

Maybe the firelizards are getting bigger, like the dragons did

[monkeysrule]

Dragons only increased size because they were designed to. Firelizards were not engineered, and therefore will not increase size like dragons do.

[Juri]

In Dragonflight, it says that Ramoth was as large as Lessa's torso.

[monkeysrule]

Originally Posted by Juri

In Dragonflight, it says that Ramoth was as large as Lessa's torso.

Which is VERY strange considering Ruth (the hatchling) was also "no bigger than [Jaxom's] torso"...and I imagine Jaxom's torso to be bigger than Lessa's.

[edith]

hang on...

its the HEAD that's not much bigger than Lessa's torso if you look!

[Spaceman Spiff]

Inconsistancies, inconsistancies!

[Spaceman Spiff]

Originally Posted by monkeysrule

Which is VERY strange considering Ruth (the hatchling) was also "no bigger than [Jaxom's] torso"...and I imagine Jaxom's torso to be bigger than Lessa's.

Actually, not really. Since Jaxom was only 10-12 or something when he Impressed, I'd imagine he was just *slightly* smaller than Lessa. And a year later when F'lar and Lessa come to inspect Ruth for flight, she notices that he's a bit taller than her now.

[edith]

hang on I already posted the reason for that!!!
It'd been misread it was Ramoth's HEAD and ALL of Ruth!!!!

[Spaceman Spiff]

Sorry, I wasn't directing the at you, I was just fuming at inconsitancies within dragon sizes in general throughout the series. First Ramoth's head is as gig as her torso, and Mnementh cages Lessa in his claws, and later a full grown dragon is 45 feet long tops. If Ramoth were that size at hatching, she'd be about 15-20 feet long. HOW does a dragon carry that many eggs which contain dragonets at that size?

[edith]

is there a little bit of between inside them?

[Myt]

There might be. but then the eggs would get cold, wouldn't they?

[Mausey]

I know dragons and dinosaurs aren't the same, but, according to a show I saw on tv not long ago there is a certain size an egg can be reguardless of the size of the adult critter. It has to do with the thickness of the shell and after a certain point the shell is too thick and oxygen can't pass through the shell killing whatever is inside.

As to the size, if you've ever seen a chick even an hour after hatching it's hard to believe it came out of an egg. They seem to inflate somehow.

[Cheryl]

How much of that "inflation" is due to feather fluffing? Or are all chicks bald at hatching?

[Spaceman Spiff]

It's 100% fluffing They all have the fluff at hatching, but since it's all wet it sticks closely to their scrawny little bodies. Once they dry out they become the cute puff-balls

[edith]

Originally Posted by Myt

There might be. but then the eggs would get cold, wouldn't they?

err...

I was being stoopid!

had an idea, what if when they were born dragons were diffrent in proportion to later on, heads larger in proportion to torso etc and stubby neck and tail?

[Mausey]

When Spaceman Spiff said fluffing it brought something to mind. Would the dragons have inflated lungs in the egg or would they be getting all the oxygen they need through the shell? If the lungs were deflated, that would leave room for body and tail.

[Cheryl]

oooh, excellent question Mausey! We probably need an egg/bird/chicken expert to answer, but I would assume they would not use their lungs to breath before hatching, but would rather get their oxygen through their umbilical to the yolk. Much like mammals get O2 from the placenta before birth.

[Spaceman Spiff]

That's what I would guess too. They don't use their lungs until they break the shell, so they would be deflated until their first breath. The shell would have to have visible holes in it to release pressure if it was actually breathing, unless it was VEEEERY slow.

1. the lungs are working while in the egg, so they would be inflated.

2. the size of the hatchlings always bothered me. because like someone else mentioned, i always compared them to dinosaurs.

on earth at least (Pern has to have a richer o2 content to support large animals like dragons), that would limit the size of the eggs to 2-3foot maximum, the hatchling even less because of the yolk sac that feeds it (which no one mentioned). granted by hatching time the chick/dragonet would have absorbed most of that.

i can stretch my imagination for the story, but any larger than 3-4ft in length would be a bit much.

3. i envisioned the eggs as similar to reptile eggs (soft/leathery) that harden towards hatching. i can't check right now, but i think they're described that way too.

oh, hello by the way