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Old Jan 3 2009, 12:17 PM   #1
BD1
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Default Menolly's firelizards

In one of the books, Menolly says that she doesn't know where Beauty's latest clutch is, "I only get an image of heat and sand." I thought gold firelizards laid their clutches near where they Hatched!!!!! Also, what firelizard caught Beauty most times???
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Old Jan 3 2009, 01:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

If she doesn't know, she doesn;t know *shrugs*

As for atching her, I think there's a reference somehere to that. Either way it points to the two bronzes Menolly has: Rocky and Diver (IIRC) and I think it was Diver who was the ah... most industrious. But it might be entirely in my mind...
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Old Jan 3 2009, 02:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

I thought that comment was made by Piemur about Farli...Granted he was with her when she hatched but had no idea where her original home was...He found her in Meron's castle after all....
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Old Jan 3 2009, 05:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

That sounds right, and actually makes more sense, EmeraldRose...
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Old Jan 4 2009, 12:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

Yes - he doesn't know which beach along the coast of the Southern Continent is the one she hatched on, since he wasn't keeping track at the time!
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Old Jan 4 2009, 05:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

Hmmm, I thought maybe you are right. But I searched and I guess BD is remembering this passage from The White Dragon:

Quote:
"I'll tell you something, Jaxom," Menolly dropped her voice, "F'lessan was right. Something is going on down South. Some of my lot have been very agitated. I get an image of a single egg but it's not in an enclosed weyr. I thought maybe my Beauty had hidden another clutch. She sometimes does that. Then I got the impression that what she was seeing happened long ago. And Beauty's no older than Ruth, so how could she remember any more than five Turns back?"
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Old Jan 4 2009, 09:57 AM   #7
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

As I recall, Beauty Hatched before Ruth did.
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Old Jan 4 2009, 10:31 AM   #8
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

She did yes, but I supposed Anne meant "not much older".
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Old Jan 4 2009, 11:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

So then BD1 isn't referring to one of Beauty's clutches, but instead when the firelizards knew the oldtimers stole the queen egg?

From what I remember, Menolly knew where Beauty's clutches were because she gave the eggs away to various Pernese folk.
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Old Jan 5 2009, 02:39 AM   #10
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

It was the Harper Hall who got to say where Beauty's eggs went, I think.

And the quote more or less implies that there's a distinct pissibility that Menolly "lost" a clutch.
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Old Jan 5 2009, 05:01 AM   #11
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Default Re : Menolly's firelizards

Or more than one, expressed by the word "sometimes"
This is quite similar to what a mother cat would do. Some would give birth to their kitties in hidden places, then would "present" them to their masters only when they consider it safe. After all, they know we humans often take them away with no reason, right?
Beauty is a wise one

Is is stated somewhere than Firelizards lay clutch where they are born? I don't remember this. Maybe they do but rather in a wide area, looking for the same weather conditions? I can't imagine them looking for their exact birthplace like salmons would do.
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Old Jan 5 2009, 08:37 AM   #12
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

Yeah I don't rememeber it saying who caught Beauty. All I know is that Rocky or Diver was the one who Caught Kimi..

And the passage above is the only time I remember Menolly mentioning Beauty clutching..

I thought at that time the Weyr still had control of Fire Lizard eggs.
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Old Jan 5 2009, 03:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

Quote:
Originally Posted by BD1 View Post
In one of the books, Menolly says that she doesn't know where Beauty's latest clutch is, "I only get an image of heat and sand." I thought gold firelizards laid their clutches near where they Hatched!!!!! Also, what firelizard caught Beauty most times???
I think they lay their eggs where they were clutched, not hatched. Otherwise many of the tame ones would be laying their eggs in Hold fireplaces.

This would mean Beauty would try to lay her eggs on that beach by the Dragonstones cave, near Half Circle Hold --- except it was sometimes flooded, so she'd have to try somewhere else nearby. And the eggs Lord Meron was handing out (including Farli) were brought in by the Oldtimers at Southern Weyr, who had a whole lot of coastline to choose from.
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Old Jan 6 2009, 11:05 PM   #14
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeraldrose View Post
I thought that comment was made by Piemur about Farli...Granted he was with her when she hatched but had no idea where her original home was...He found her in Meron's castle after all....
Would it not be where the Numbweed Meadows are? The stream goes that ends up where the Rocks that Piemur used to fish on and ledge saved the him from Threadfall just before she hattched? For didn't she hattached just after that Threadfall?
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Old Jan 7 2009, 11:48 AM   #15
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

I think she would lay her eggs where she had been laid (somewhere in Southern) and then taken to Meron's hold and back to Southern where she hatched...I don't think that Piemer would know where she laid her eggs because the original beach (where her mom laid her as an egg) is unknown by him....going on another quote search...checked TWD now looking in ATWOP...

found it on pg298-299 ROP
Quote:
You mean Farli's clutched? Frequently. And then Piemur was forced to admit the embarrassing aspect of that: "Trouble is I don't know Where.
Why not ? Jancis asked surprised.
Well you see, Queens instinctively return to their original clutching place and choose a free site nearby. Only I don't know where that was."
"But you Impressed her when she hatched? Surely--
...That's another long story, but basically I don't know where she was clutched and she can't seem to give me directions beyond sand dunes and heat
Although if this is true than Menolly should know that Beauty's eggs would be at the DragonStones
where she was clutched...

Last edited by Emeraldrose; Jan 7 2009 at 12:07 PM. Reason: to add quotes
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Old Jan 7 2009, 02:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
It was the Harper Hall who got to say where Beauty's eggs went, I think.

And the quote more or less implies that there's a distinct pissibility that Menolly "lost" a clutch.
Aww I see where you're coming from now Hans. I have to go back and reread the Pern series again. It's been a while for me.
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Old Jan 7 2009, 08:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

Emeraldrose, it doesn't make sense to me that a fire lizard would be able to find the beach their egg had been laid on, even when the egg was taken somewhere else before it hatched. It makes more sense that they would imprint on their actual hatching location as a place good for eggs to hatch, and return there.

As a comparison: I just saw the IMAX movie "Mysteries of the Great Lakes", in which scientists are trying to save the lake sturgeon. Sturgeons always return to the place where they hatched to spawn. These scientists are capturing sturgeons that come to spawn, extracting some of the eggs and sperm, fertilizing it, and transporting it to waterways that no longer have spawning populations. The sturgeons which hatch there imprint on the unique chemical fingerprint of that river, and will return there to spawn.
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Old Jan 8 2009, 10:09 AM   #18
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

I am not disagreeing...I had originally thought it was the hatching place but I knew it was Piemur who said he did not know where Farli laid her eggs...I am just quoting Anne
if it is an Anne-consistency then so be it....
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Old Jan 8 2009, 06:22 PM   #19
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

well, then someone is gonna have to keep an eye on Farli. Beauty, Kimi, and Grall are well known where they were clutched, and hatched. Kylara's queen is less likely known, and fell out of story in the same book she came in at. I suppose there could be a fanfic, or otherwise, about Menolly or Sebell hunting down a clutch... Though there was a generalized mention that Menolly has never gone back to Half Circle. Maybe she had a dragonrider pick up the clutch once Beauty laid it.
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Old Jan 9 2009, 03:52 AM   #20
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

I think the whole "they go back to where they hatched" is unsound and rather nonsense. It seems silly for e.g. Beauty not to find a nice Fort or Southern Boll cove.

if they did return it would be easy to find them, right? And over the Turns there should be whole colonies in places where e.g. Menolly's firelizard hatched.
And most of the firelizards would go back to the southern continent. No, I think we need to let go of this idea and accept that where it has been said it was referred to as something happening now and then...

Simply on the basis of how hard it is to find firelizard eggs, the returning to hatching/birthplace cannot be true!
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Old Jan 9 2009, 06:31 AM   #21
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Default Re : Menolly's firelizards

I agree with Hans, we have no clue on such a habit by firelizards. The only reference to firelizards coming back to their homeplace (and not birthplace) is when settlers moved to the North continent. IIRW, their little friends returned to the South after a few winters because they could not stand the cold. That may be why we think Firelizards mostly clutch on sunny beaches and tend to return there.

Which sounds strange anyway, since Menolly found hers on a beach near the Half-Circle Hold. Maybe Firelizards became more resistant to cold with time (2400 turns...) and consequently they are less likely to search for hot spots to lay their eggs?
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Old Jan 9 2009, 10:25 AM   #22
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Default Re: Menolly's firelizards

I was thinking about this very thing last night while rocking my grandson ...that the original firelizards left to return to Southern because of the cold....It is specifically mentioned in Ford of Red Hanrahan (pg97)
Quote:
Sorka said it was because they were going back to their native sands in the South to lay their eggs. The little golden queens, being more responsible,remained to see them safely hatched before coming back to their humans. The green females laid their eggs and then forgot about the matter and, being shatter-witted,probably forgot that they had once had human friends
Sorka also suggested returning to Landing for clutches but Sean vetoed the idea....

It made me wonder if the firelizards forgot their own imprinted humans once they moved North then what does this say about the question re: firelizard's of 9th pass remembering them? I also wondered how extensive the mentasynth of firelizards went into the dna of the firelizards and how this could have influenced their memory.
Although I do realize that the memories of the 9th pass firelizards are of "historic" events
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