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Old Jul 2 2008, 10:37 PM   #1
Anareth
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The novel of Star Wars was actually written at the same time as the script, and published almost at the same time or slightly before (the copyright on the first edition is 1976, while the film debuted in 1977.) It not only contains the missing "Biggs" scenes (one of which was put back in for the Special Editions) but it also some other references that don't make sense post-film version (Darth Vader drinking from a glass?) and still more that were meant to be important but were never followed up on (the original title, and the title of the novel until YEARS later, was "Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker, from the Journal of the Whills". If you get early enough materials, it even still has the "Luke Starkiller" name. We never actually find out what a Whill is and what it has to do with anything. The book is ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster from the scripts and notes by George Lucas. In that case, anything inconsistent in the book is superceded by the film version even though the book technically came first. And then by whatever George and Lucas Licensing decides it is today, and believe me some of the latter's decisions can be...bizarre. Because he's STILL tinkering (more about the clone wars, George? Really?) Star Wars is not the greatest book/film/supplimental material example in the world.

My Star Wars fandom predates and supercedes all other fandoms for me. As such, I've gotten used to some...character fuzziness. Just be glad you're not trying to keep track of several dozen authors plus a creator known for changing his mind.
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Old Jul 2 2008, 11:41 PM   #2
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That's very interesting insight to the early years of Star Wars thank you Anareth. I was only a gleam in my father’s eye then, I was born in 1978 so I only know the tinkered material post Empire Strikes Back. I was a fan as a tot and will be for life. As long as he keeps pumping out new CGIs, special effects and sound technologies from his other division Industrial light & magic, all I can say is tinker away George tinker away.

and yes unfortunately I do try to keep track of quite a few authors myself
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Old Jul 3 2008, 11:03 AM   #3
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I was 8 years old when "Return of the Jedi" came out and I remember going to the cinema without the *oldies* to watch it and that it was a "holiday program" excursion.
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Old Jul 4 2008, 11:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
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The novel of Star Wars was actually written at the same time as the script, and published almost at the same time or slightly before (the copyright on the first edition is 1976, while the film debuted in 1977.) It not only contains the missing "Biggs" scenes (one of which was put back in for the Special Editions) but it also some other references that don't make sense post-film version (Darth Vader drinking from a glass?) and still more that were meant to be important but were never followed up on (the original title, and the title of the novel until YEARS later, was "Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker, from the Journal of the Whills". If you get early enough materials, it even still has the "Luke Starkiller" name. We never actually find out what a Whill is and what it has to do with anything. The book is ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster from the scripts and notes by George Lucas. In that case, anything inconsistent in the book is superceded by the film version even though the book technically came first. And then by whatever George and Lucas Licensing decides it is today, and believe me some of the latter's decisions can be...bizarre. Because he's STILL tinkering (more about the clone wars, George? Really?) Star Wars is not the greatest book/film/supplimental material example in the world.

My Star Wars fandom predates and supercedes all other fandoms for me. As such, I've gotten used to some...character fuzziness. Just be glad you're not trying to keep track of several dozen authors plus a creator known for changing his mind.
Nice to know someone else here is old enough to know the meaning of H.S.F.!

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Old Jul 5 2008, 12:29 AM   #5
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Oh, I wasn't born when Star Wars came out. (Year after, though it is the first movie I remember seeing. Sadly that means I have no memory of NOT knowing Vader was Luke's father, as I was a toddler when I saw ESB.) Several of my friends are the pro authors who write what are called the "Expanded Universe" novels, and also Clone Wars era filler. I've also been somewhat intensely involved in the fandom. Including a well-intentioned but ultimately futile attempt to create a "character bible" for Del Rey's authors when they got the contract after Bantam. To their credit, Del Rey REALLY wanted to do a better job keeping continuity than Bantam did, but they decided finally that there was just TOO much information to keep track of, even with a group of highly...uh...focused folk doing the database-building for them. Which was true. New Jedi Order alone would have been hard enough.
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Old Jul 5 2008, 10:56 AM   #6
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Oh, I wasn't born when Star Wars came out. (Year after, though it is the first movie I remember seeing. Sadly that means I have no memory of NOT knowing Vader was Luke's father, as I was a toddler when I saw ESB.) Several of my friends are the pro authors who write what are called the "Expanded Universe" novels, and also Clone Wars era filler. I've also been somewhat intensely involved in the fandom. Including a well-intentioned but ultimately futile attempt to create a "character bible" for Del Rey's authors when they got the contract after Bantam. To their credit, Del Rey REALLY wanted to do a better job keeping continuity than Bantam did, but they decided finally that there was just TOO much information to keep track of, even with a group of highly...uh...focused folk doing the database-building for them. Which was true. New Jedi Order alone would have been hard enough.
I saw Star Wars, first-run, front-row center, on the huge screen at the Roxy Theater in Tacoma, Washington in 1977. And for the record: Han Shot First! Lucas wimped-out by tinkering with that fact as he fiddled with the re-releases later. I understand he really peeved a lot of hard-core fans like yourself that were old enough to remember the original.

It was a pretty lame thing to do, but Vader's back-story as told in I, II, and III wound up being pretty lame as well. I liked Vader best in the original, when he was just flat-out evil and menacing. In the original, he didn't need any excuses for what he was; he was just bad. Similarly, Solo needed no excuses for being a smuggler, pirate and outlaw.

I'm not a hard core fan (never owned a toy lightsaber, sorry), but I've really enjoyed the mythos, just like with Pern. And I always hate to see an artist get pushed around by public opinion or their perception of it. I prefer to see them stand by their work.
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Old Jul 5 2008, 12:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Well. they are making the movie.

So what DOES H.S.F. mean?
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Old Jul 5 2008, 12:45 PM   #8
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So what DOES H.S.F. mean?
Hans shot first.

Which he did.


EDIT: HAN shot first, not Hans.

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Old Jul 5 2008, 06:55 PM   #9
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Even GEORGE has been spotted wearing the "Han Shot First" tee (on the set of "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull") so I guess he decided you can't fight city hall or millions of irate fans.
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Old Jul 5 2008, 09:34 PM   #10
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Even GEORGE has been spotted wearing the "Han Shot First" tee (on the set of "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull") so I guess he decided you can't fight city hall or millions of irate fans.
Maybe he woke up with the head of a gundark in his bed and a coin "for the mess."

(Probably put there by his kids...who probably got him the HSF shirt for Father's Day...)

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Old Jul 6 2008, 03:08 AM   #11
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I'm not a hard core fan (never owned a toy lightsaber, sorry), but I've really enjoyed the mythos, just like with Pern. And I always hate to see an artist get pushed around by public opinion or their perception of it. I prefer to see them stand by their work.
Well said ED well said

I am a hard core fan of star wars, I do not own a lightsaber though(yet) I do own collector figurines and film posters though.

while it doesn’t mater to me if Han shot first or not, (he did) I strongly differ with the perception about Vader always being evil, if Star Wars was a standalone film that perception of Vader would be true. We learn through the course of the original trilogy Vader’s original constitution is that of a Jedi. first the story of Anakin Luke’s father by Obi-Won when he and Luke first met on tatooine in episode IV. second In episode V we learn Vader is the father of Luke. “Luke I am your Father.” This changes our perception of Lord Vader, how can this be If Anakin is Luke’s father? Finally in episode VI, Obi-Wan now with the force finishes his story about Anakin and we then learn that he and Vader are one in the same, then the most compelling aspect of the whole story Anakin takes control of Lord Vader and in the last act of his life he does the right thing sealing his own death in the process.

This is the best literary aspect of Lucas’s trilogy it is what defines Star Wars in and of itself, the internal struggle of good and evil, not just among governments and forces but within an individual against morals and principals, a struggle we each can identify with in our own life. If you take away the conflict within from Lucas’s work I for one would not be a fan, or be having this discussion.

Again while I am a big fan, I have to admit Lucas is not one of my favorite authors. There are much better literary masters. I simply used him as an example in a previous post for this thread.
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Old Jul 6 2008, 11:36 AM   #12
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Okay, I knew Hans Shot First but didn't recognize the acronym!
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Old Jul 8 2008, 04:29 PM   #13
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Star Wars - I like the films and I have several editions, but I have not actually read any of the books. Would it be worthwhile to read any, and if so which ones? Written by whom?
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Old Jul 9 2008, 03:48 AM   #14
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I'm with Nina, I love the movies but I have read some of the books and don't care for them. This might be because I first saw the movies and read the books later, which IMHO is not the right order

And I absolutely love the additions on the DVD's about making the movies!
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Old Jul 15 2008, 07:22 AM   #15
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I'm no Star Wars freak but Timothy Zahn's series starting with Heir to the Empire isn't bad and I believe it picks up right where Return of the Jedi stops. They are the only ones I have read though.
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Old Jul 18 2008, 12:44 PM   #16
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I am a big Star Wars Fan, and own lots of novels(haven't come close to owning all the EU material though). However, the novels have lost something for me, over the years. There's just to many retcons and the Star Wars series is turning into Survivor: Star Wars style. I think that change mostly happened after Episodes II and III, which were a lot darker than the other films and it reflected in the EU. Problem is, major character deaths are becoming too frequent and overused. So I'd say movies and projects that George Lucas works on like Star Wars: The Clone Wars, and the Star Wars live-action series are going to likely be more worth paying attention too in the Star Wars universe.
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Old Aug 4 2008, 10:44 AM   #17
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Some Good Star Wars books you might want to take a look at: X-Wing Squadron (last I knew 8 book series, gateway series of sorts to alot of New Rebublic/New Jedi Order era (immediately post-Return of the Jedi) books: in story order -- Rouge Squadron, Wedge's Gamble, The Kytros Trap, The Bacta War, Wraith Squadron, Iron Fist, Solo Command, Isard's Revenge, Starfighters of Adumar).

Also links with the Jedi Academy trilogy via I, Jedi (which includes events of the trilogy from the perspective of Corran Horn, Rouge Squadron pilot/Jedi trainee not mentioned in the trilogy, but plays a crucial role in the trainee's victory over Exur Kun, Dark Lord of the Sith), and other characters -- among the more interesting ones IMHO is Tyria Sarkin.

Meh... she's sneaky, intelligent, perceptive, loyal, and gutsy (among other things) -- what's not to love? Oh, and she has excellent taste -- her husband only... ...draws a Star Destroyer away from a besieged New Republic base long enough for it to finish evacuating, survives an an all-out weapons barrage, thumbs his nose at the gullible Imps on board -- with only two X-wings, two A-Wings, and no shots fired.


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I think that change mostly happened after Episodes II and III, which were a lot darker than the other films and it reflected in the EU. Problem is, major character deaths are becoming too frequent and overused. So I'd say movies and projects that George Lucas works on like Star Wars: The Clone Wars, and the Star Wars live-action series are going to likely be more worth paying attention too in the Star Wars universe.
Hmmm... that's a side of the books that I haven't seen.

From what I've seen, protagonist deaths are reasonably close to Episodes IV-VI (the original trilogy) level, same with antagonist forces (adjusting for the fact that there are so many of them, anyways).

Of course, I haven't gobbled up much in the New Jedi Order era yet, so I'm wondering if that's where all the deaths are your referencing. I do know that Jacen Solo... ...gets turned to the Dark Side and dies a Sith warlord, for instance.
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Last edited by draconichybrid; Aug 5 2008 at 09:57 AM. Reason: spoiler hidden, spelling/grammar whore, second and third spoiler
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Old Aug 5 2008, 10:45 PM   #18
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Canker: Heir to the Empire begins five years after "Return of the Jedi." The book that picks up immediately (like an hour or so) after ROTJ is Kathy Tyer's "The Truce at Bakura". But HTTE is of course the first of the 'new wave' of SW fiction. And I think I was in sixth grade when it came out. I'd say I feel old...but then I'd have to remember how Tim must feel.

I think the current darkness of the post-film era books partially stems from the fact that the characters are simply getting OLDER. They're senior citizens now, after all! Characters really did, logically, have to start dying off one way or another.

Of course at some points it got silly. The honest-to-God rason that Anakin Solo has to be killed in "Star By Star", by direct order of Lucas Licensing was that LFL was seriously concerned it would be confusing to have two characters, whose stories were forty years or more apart, named Anakin. Troy Denning did what he had to do, but I feel for the guy. Though he didn't get NEARLY as much flak as poor Bob Salvatore did for killing off Chewbacca. Death threats. The man got death threats.

Regarding Rogue Squadron and Wraith Squardron--just FYI, if you're thinking of reading them, there are basically three groups of stories in there. It HELPS to read the three groups in order, but it's not mandatory to read them both. Rogue Squadron, by Mike Stackpole, is basically the story of Corran Horn (also the hero and sole Star Wars first-person narrator thus far of "I, Jedi") and includes "Rogue Squadron", "The Krytos Trap", "Wedge's Gamble" and "The Bacta Wars". The Wraith Squadron series by Aaron Allston spins off this, featuring Wedge Antilles and a mostly-new cast of characters. It includes "Wraith Squadron", "Iron Fist", and "Solo Command". "Starfighters of Adumar", also by Allston (who would appreciate the alliteration--someone stop me) is about Wedge, Hobbie, Janson, and Tycho of Rogue Squadron and is more or less a stand-alone. Also quite possibly the funniest Star Wars book ever written. If you read just one of the X-Wing books, this one is most likely the one you'll enjoy.

I'll say there is a stylistic jump between Stackpole and Allston. If you prefer snappier writing and more character-driven plot elements, you'll like the Wraith half of X-Wing better. If you love space battles and want a more dominant one or two narrators (Wedge and Corran), you'll prefer the Rogue books. I make no secret, even from Mike and Aaron, that I'm more into Aaron's way of doing things, but these are probably as a whole the most fun Star Wars outside the Thrawn Trilogy.
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Old Aug 6 2008, 10:38 AM   #19
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I'll say there is a stylistic jump between Stackpole and Allston. If you prefer snappier writing and more character-driven plot elements, you'll like the Wraith half of X-Wing better. If you love space battles and want a more dominant one or two narrators (Wedge and Corran), you'll prefer the Rogue books. I make no secret, even from Mike and Aaron, that I'm more into Aaron's way of doing things, but these are probably as a whole the most fun Star Wars outside the Thrawn Trilogy.
Agreed on most of this.

I liked the dominance of Wedge and Corran quite a bit... but all things considered, I personally prefer the Wraith Squadron half to the Rough Squadron half, as there's more going on behind the scenes.

Kell Tainer (points to signature) and Tyria Sarkin Tainer (I've always wanted to play her equivalent in D&D -- Rouge/Ranger -- so no surprise here) in particular tip the balance over to the Wraiths.


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"Starfighters of Adumar", also by Allston (who would appreciate the alliteration--someone stop me) is about Wedge, Hobbie, Janson, and Tycho of Rogue Squadron and is more or less a stand-alone. Also quite possibly the funniest Star Wars book ever written. If you read just one of the X-Wing books, this one is most likely the one you'll enjoy.
I'd have to agree here, as well.

'Ye Olde Comedy of Errors, heh.
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Old Aug 7 2008, 07:37 PM   #20
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I read some of the earlier Star Wars books a while ago, but couldn't find very many at the library - also didn't want to read them out of order! Eventually I plan to reread them. The only ones I remember really are the "Jedi Academy" trilogy, The Courtship of Princess Leia (it was just funny!) and The Crystal Star, which was just plain wierd at the end, but I liked the kids. Also I liked Courtship because it led to one of the characters in the "Young Jedi Knights" series - of which I only read the first two, but it was fun to spot that connection.
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Old Aug 7 2008, 10:14 PM   #21
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You basically read every single one I would have said "avoid like the plague." Literally the ONLY thing I remember about "The Crystal Star" is it was the first Star Wars book taht was so bad I couldn't finish it. And the ONLY reason I recommend people read the Jedi Academy Trilogy is because there are some plot points you need to know later, plus it makes you appreciate what a good spackling job Mike Stackpole does with "I, Jedi", fixing the hash Kevin made of things.

Get Timothy Zahn's "Heir to the Empire", "Dark Force Rising", and "The Last Command." Pretty much still the definitive post-ROTJ Star Wars, and also the first written--everything else basically had to accomodate what he did there. (Plus you get to see the twins at their least annoying for most of their lives until the New Jedi Order series--in utero and newborns.)
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Old Aug 8 2008, 11:39 AM   #22
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Hmmm... now I'm glad I didn't pick up The Crystal Star. I read a preview of it once and didn't like the preview, so that figures.

Since I'm at the library anyways, I'll see if I can pick up those three Zahn titles. Thanks for the advice.
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Old Aug 10 2008, 10:04 PM   #23
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Pretty sure I read the "Heir to the Empire" trilogy, but it's been so long I really can't remember.
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Old Aug 13 2008, 09:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
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I think the current darkness of the post-film era books partially stems from the fact that the characters are simply getting OLDER. They're senior citizens now, after all! Characters really did, logically, have to start dying off one way or another.

Of course at some points it got silly. The honest-to-God rason that Anakin Solo has to be killed in "Star By Star", by direct order of Lucas Licensing was that LFL was seriously concerned it would be confusing to have two characters, whose stories were forty years or more apart, named Anakin. Troy Denning did what he had to do, but I feel for the guy. Though he didn't get NEARLY as much flak as poor Bob Salvatore did for killing off Chewbacca. Death threats. The man got death threats.
It doesn't seem to me to have much to do with age. In fact, I believe that Lucas Licensing has ordered that the trio of Han, Leia, and Luke are not to be killed off, and their in their sixth or seventh decades by now. They get around that in the Legacy comics by setting it 130 years after the Battle of Yavin Most of the characters who have been dying have been of younger generations, or of the Trio's generation, but not the Trio. In fact, Han and Leia have lost both their sons, and Luke's lost Mara. Now all we need is Jaina and Ben to kick it.

I think that what's happening is that they are running out of worthwhile storylines in the post-Endor era, so they're coming up with events that they think will shock us, and it's becoming a monotony. I can understand the New Jedi Order series, it was a very good saga. It had major character growth, an involving drama, it killed off just enough characters to have you on the edge of your seat, wondering if your favorite character was going to die. And James Luceno finished it off well. The Dark Nest Trilogy, I didn't care for as much. And the Legacy of the Force was garbage. I mean, I understand a large galaxy with billions of life-forms would come into conflict a bit more than on Earth. At the same time the Jedi are supposed to prevent these things. But having three galaxy-spanning wars in a single generation is kind of stretching it a bit. I can understand the Yuuzhan Vong war. There's no way the Jedi could have stopped that one through mediation. The war depicted in Legacy of the Force though could easily have been ended near the very beginning. And you'd think that after thousands of years of fighting these wars, the Jedi would learn to kill the Sith or Dark Jedi right at the beginning. It's just really exasperating, and becoming a monotony.
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Old Aug 16 2008, 09:12 PM   #25
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Luke is the only one under an absolute protection order. You can't kill him off, you can't discuss even in the LOTF comics how he may have died. Everyone else from the films--well, it's not technically a "no" (see Chewbacca) but you do have to run those by George personally first. (He does not nitpick every plot but something that big does have to go through him.) Also I don't know anyone except possibly Traviss who'd want to kill Han or Leia. Well, okay, AC Crispin would probably kill Leia off if given the chance.

I actually got bored halfway through NJO and quit reading it. Didn't read Dark Nest at all, but I liked Legacy, partially because I hate Jacen anyway, and partially because I told Aaron I might have to not speak to him again if Jaina ended up with Zekk. Liked Aaron's books, was good with Troy's, HATED TRAVISS. It was Mando-porn. I do not care remotely that much about Boba Fett, sorry.
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Old Aug 24 2008, 02:00 AM   #26
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growing up BIG fan of the movies, Read Splinter of the Mind's eye, wondering about Vader having a conversation with Luke before lightsaber fight, Finally decided that Foster went rogue and wrote a story without knowing the Tack Lucas was taking at the time (I did read this in high school). Years later I read Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy. was good, Kinda fuzzy on when I picked up others, though recall a few times deciding to let it go, then picking up a new trilogy. I finally started the X-Wing series, and having played the game got a laugh at how much Stackpole put of the Game into it. (tour 1, mission 4 is lovingly described as the first simulator run as the Redemption Scenario).

Finally stopped with the New Jedi Order. Only so many times the Republic can be shown to be on the upper hand, then start over at the beginning of the next novel.

Did like the Errant Venture creating an impromptu nebula Near Yavin, but that was the high point.

firm HSF believer. actually HATE the "special edition" then standard DVD version of the movies. liked the original ending scenes from RoTJ. and hearing Han say "you think I had a choice? even I get boarded sometime" once is good, twice sounds prepared, trying to convince himself more than anyone else... like maybe he DID have a choice.

Prequels....... best evidence that the original star wars movies WERE a fluke. Or George went senile in the 80's... case for either.

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Old Aug 30 2008, 07:54 PM   #27
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growing up BIG fan of the movies, Read Splinter of the Mind's eye, wondering about Vader having a conversation with Luke before lightsaber fight, Finally decided that Foster went rogue and wrote a story without knowing the Tack Lucas was taking at the time (I did read this in high school).
LOL...more like GEORGE hadn't decided at that point. (The whole planned in advance thing? Total. B. S.)

As for George losing it? Three words: Howard. The. Duck. 'nuff said.
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Old Aug 30 2008, 08:29 PM   #28
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ummmm, wasn't aware he had a hand in that one. wouldn't have held out hope as long as I did. picked up the X-wing books again, and beginning to think Stackpole began to run out of ideas in the second book, plowed through the third, then managed to pull off a decent story on the fourth. Allsted had some fun humor in his stuff, but took it a few steps too far I think. All surrounding the simple phrase "yub yub, commander".

Still feel like Lucas took a look at the published works, and ran a completely different direction for his subsequent movies. A lot of discussion in the books about how the Clones started the wars by being unstable. Then in the movies what were the clone wars about?

Too many reversals on Movie details, Vader helping to hunt down jedi in the movies consisted of him taking down all the kids? the only adult jedi he faced cut his legs out from under him. Okay gotta admit Lucas making a metaphor real was pretty humorous. Disarming their opponents etc... Seems like the Authors did a better job of keeping a previous Authors story together. It might be contractual, but the only name in Star wars who bucked the entire universe was its creator. lots of growls on my part about it.
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Old Sep 3 2008, 11:25 AM   #29
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picked up the X-wing books again, and beginning to think Stackpole began to run out of ideas in the second book, plowed through the third, then managed to pull off a decent story on the fourth. Allsted had some fun humor in his stuff, but took it a few steps too far I think. All surrounding the simple phrase "yub yub, commander".
To each his (or her) own, I suppose, as none of that really bothered me much.


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Too many reversals on Movie details, Vader helping to hunt down jedi in the movies consisted of him taking down all the kids? the only adult jedi he faced cut his legs out from under him.
Heh, it does seem as though Vader left all the adult Jedi to Thrawn, Palpatine, and Mara Jade, doesn't it?
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Old Sep 3 2008, 11:06 PM   #30
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To each his (or her) own, I suppose, as none of that really bothered me much.


Heh, it does seem as though Vader left all the adult Jedi to Thrawn, Palpatine, and Mara Jade, doesn't it?
More along the lines of a simultaneous ambush. still trying to figure out how it was that masters of the force were being taken down with blaster fire. Jedi training starts with blocking blaster fire right?

I never said I didn't like the books, got tired during the Vong era, sertainly, but still liked the stories.
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Old Sep 9 2008, 01:51 PM   #31
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More along the lines of a simultaneous ambush. still trying to figure out how it was that masters of the force were being taken down with blaster fire. Jedi training starts with blocking blaster fire right?
Hmmm... there may be others (haven't read anything post New Republic Era, so...):
-->Gunner hides in ysalamiri force bubble, chance of no real-time warning (Luke always appeared to notice the bubble, not the gunner hidden inside in the Thrawn Trilogy and Hand of Thrawn duology. Lack of any real-time warnings here makes sense, as there is no Force in the gunner's immediate area to "conduct" the hostile intent's Force echo, akin to how some energy waves are "blocked" by a vacuum [IIRC, too lazy to check])
-->More gunners than the Force-wielder(s) can handle -- all it takes is one lucky shot....



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I never said I didn't like the books, got tired during the Vong era, certainly, but still liked the stories.
... wasn't my intention. I simply disagree with your listing of X-Wing book flaws, and said so.
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Old Sep 10 2008, 01:57 AM   #32
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Hmmm... there may be others (haven't read anything post New Republic Era, so...):
-->Gunner hides in ysalamiri force bubble, chance of no real-time warning (Luke always appeared to notice the bubble, not the gunner hidden inside in the Thrawn Trilogy and Hand of Thrawn duology. Lack of any real-time warnings here makes sense, as there is no Force in the gunner's immediate area to "conduct" the hostile intent's Force echo, akin to how some energy waves are "blocked" by a vacuum [IIRC, too lazy to check])
-->More gunners than the Force-wielder(s) can handle -- all it takes is one lucky shot....



... wasn't my intention. I simply disagree with your listing of X-Wing book flaws, and said so.
the ysalamiri angle I could understand. overwhelming fire, again I could understand. problem is that there wasn't, or in Yoda's case, he felt it far enough in advance to attack BEFORE he was attacked.
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Old Sep 10 2008, 11:13 AM   #33
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the ysalamiri angle I could understand. overwhelming fire, again I could understand. problem is that there wasn't, or in Yoda's case, he felt it far enough in advance to attack BEFORE he was attacked.
We ARE talking either Outbound Flight or ((Survivor's Quest)), aren't we? 'Cause I wouldn't have known that in either case.

((Grabbed the library's copy of Outbound Flight on the way out yesterday... good stuff, certainly. Then again, a book with Thrawn in it automatically jumps to the head of the class -- kinda like Thrawn himself, heh. "Oh, shit, its that Chiss pinball wizard! We're f'ing screwed: even with 50 to one odds in our favor, this exercise just turned into kick-the-rancor -- with Mitth'raw'nuruodo playing the rancor, naturally."

As for Yoda, I seem to remember Luke pointing out -- in Vision of the Future, actually -- that something about Jedi not being omnipotent in response to... ...a young Qom Qae (sentient avians that can be understood by Force-wielders past apprentice level through Comprehend Speech -- essentially the Jedi equivalent of Tirla's vaunted language facility) naivety -- you know,'the great and powerful Jedi Master will handle it, Jedi can handle anything.'
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Old Sep 11 2008, 04:13 PM   #34
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We ARE talking either Outbound Flight or ((Survivor's Quest)), aren't we? 'Cause I wouldn't have known that in either case.

((Grabbed the library's copy of Outbound Flight on the way out yesterday... good stuff, certainly. Then again, a book with Thrawn in it automatically jumps to the head of the class -- kinda like Thrawn himself, heh.

As for Yoda, I seem to remember Luke pointing out -- in Vision of the Future, actually -- that something about Jedi not being omnipotent in response to...
haven't read all of outbound flight. was getting tired of the new stories before it came out. Yes I know the jedi are not Omniscient, they do have visions of possible futures, but they can be twisted by perception, or intent. the immediate future of an ambush, or trap, IF a jedi is attuned and wary, would likely be avoided by the Jedi, or as seen in Ep. III, Yoda attacked the attackers. Sure, its possible that the stirrings of the force (or whim of Lucas) meant the Jedi had to join the energy force directly.

Anyways, personal opinion, I think the best thing Star wars ever did was to introduce lightsabers. takes "disarming your opponent" to a whole new level. same with "cutting his legs out from under him".
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Old Sep 14 2008, 08:44 PM   #35
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Re George/LFL's involvement: he has to personally OK anything HUGE (ie Chewie's death in "Vector Prime") and he does pick and choose things he likes to become "real" canon (ie the first use of the name "Coruscant" for the capital planet of the Republic is in Tim Zahn's Heir to the Empire. George liked it, he used it.)

George does not read all the books in detail. That's what he has Liscensing for. They are also the ones responsible for such head-smacking moments as the death of Anakin Solo (so help me, Troy Denning was ordered to kill him off because they were afraid it would be confusing to have two Anakins--I will also say Troy's a good sport about taking flack for being the designated assassin there) and, according to K.W. Jeter, the manuscript for the first bounty hunter novel coming back marked where a character says "We're toast" with the editing notation "There is no toast in Star Wars." (Obviously, they got a little less lenient after HTTE took off with that "hot chocolate" reference. This has lead to things like "topatoes", "silver engine tape" and there are also no "windows.")
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Old Sep 20 2008, 05:18 PM   #36
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sigh, sloppy way to handle it. Still feels like GL did read a number of the licensed works, and went 180 out from an author's ideas to debunk the author's view specifically.


Biggest "what was he thinking" was Lucas' making the jedi monks. cannot be a club member if have wife and kid. ripple came back to the future, HOW can anyone know that a jedi's child would be a danger, if the Jedi do not have children?
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Old Sep 22 2008, 02:25 PM   #37
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I'm a hard core Star Wars fan. I do own a lightsaber or two. :-) Plus it's my occupaition and hobby to make the costumes and props for clients. I'd seen the movies first run as kid, but didn't read any of the books until later. The books I'd started were the Young Jedi Knights, then the "I, Jedi"(Stackpole) Heir to the Empire trilogy(Thrawn is one crafty opponent.) Later the New Jedo Order, and later Legacy series with Jacen.

I enjoy Star Wars but I am not always on board with what GL comes up with. He can produce ok but defiantly can't write dialogue, which he said himself he can't write it. <snicker> I don't always like the directions authors take the charactors, but I figure when the readers react to what the author has done to the charctors ,it means s/he touched a nerve or two. The audience has grown attached to the charactors and actually care about what happens to them.

Which books to start reading. Start with the novelizations of the 6 movies Episode I-VI.
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Old Sep 22 2008, 05:46 PM   #38
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Biggest "what was he thinking" was Lucas' making the jedi monks. cannot be a club member if have wife and kid. ripple came back to the future, HOW can anyone know that a jedi's child would be a danger, if the Jedi do not have children?
Agreed on this one, although...

...Luke corrects this in his New Jedi Order. First he marries Mara Jade, then decides after the events of Survivor's Quest to repeal that particular section of the Jedi Code.
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Old Sep 22 2008, 09:45 PM   #39
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That part of the Code to not marry, have kids or attachments was developed a 1,000 years ago. at the time it was needed for a SHORT time, but not ever to have been a permanent tradition. The jedi were desctroyed because they lost their vision, the ability to grow and change with the times, to adapt. They also lost their connection with the humbleness of regular people and to serve them.

It's good Luke had circumvented that part, many Old Republic Jedi did have children and wives. Neeja Halcyon of the Correlian Order of jedi had a wife and kids. He turne dout to be Corran's father.
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Old Sep 25 2008, 01:55 AM   #40
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Yippie!

Oh yes, I was around, when the Movies came out. I remember it well, being in California at the time. I also own a lightsaber or two..and a few costumes... then again, Im also own a few Trek costumes as well.

I only read a few of the books, as some seem very long winded. But some I have enjoyed. Have gotten used to ole George changing and adding stuff every 2 years... (We're still trying to forget that Midi-chlorian oops!)

My kids are bonifide Sci-Fi fiends. My youngest, talks so much about warp fields and Hyperdrives, and anything else related to starships and space, I have to keep going to Google, to keep up on the stuff.

And my kids KNOW that H.S.F!


Im just wondering what this new TV series is going to be like. As long as it is not a **SUCCESSUL** as the...**GASP!**

Dare I say it...



"Star Wars Christmas Special..."


**Runs out laughting**
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