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Old Dec 10 2004, 10:56 PM   #1
Kater
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Default New Government Structure

Now that thread is over (or will be at the end of the pass) and more of the planet is open for colonization, do you see any changes in the government stucture of Pern?

I do believe that the teaching halls (Harper Hall, Healer Hall, Weavers Hall, etc) would still be the central learning places. Kind of like Colleges or Universities. I think landing would become the primary Primary education (ie K-12 in the US). Maybe the earliest year to go to study at Landing might be the equivilant of 6th or 7th grade while the early years would be taken care of in the hold of birth.

As far as governing goes do you see a more centralized government (like many countries in the world these days) or maybe even different, larger then hold sized, states that have leaders/holders/govenors with a more centralized government facility at some place like Landing with the school or some other central location.

Ideas? Thoughts? Put Kater up against a wall for a firing squad for even bringing up such an idea?!
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Old Dec 10 2004, 11:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: New Government Structure

Centralized government is not what the Charter was set up for. And the Charter is STILL THE document reguarding how things are to be done on Pern.

F'lar is asked if the Dragonriders are going to be the police force for all Pern. He points out Holds are largely autonomous, but to prevent men like Fax (And Toric and Calkin) from causing problems again, that yes, the Dragonriders will do what is needed.
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Old Dec 11 2004, 01:36 AM   #3
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Default Re: New Government Structure

It may be that a particular hold becomes predominant over others, and one such candidate is Ruatha, under Jaxom's successors. Cove Hold will remain pretty strong, and probably the headquarters for the Masterharper, and Landing will also remain pretty strong as well.

As for the weyrs, they will most probably become individuals' residences, the home of a dragon. It would be interesting to see how the lack of thread affects both dragon numbers and divisions among the types, and whether greens will breed in the future alongside the golds.
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Old Dec 11 2004, 02:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: New Government Structure

I don't really believe in the Weyrhold idea... There may be some dragons who can live with it, but I think that most would prefer to live with many others of their own kind, rather than alone or in a "couple" surrounded by lots of humans, in whom they have almost no interest (obviously excepting their rider). Dragons have always been temporarily stationed at Holds, as sweepriders and transport for the Lord Holder and any Craftmasters, but they've always returned to the Weyrs.

I also don't see an equivalent of the 1960s sexual revolution on Pern anytime soon. This means that one reason why Weyrs were set up in the first place still remains: to isolate most Holders from mating dragon broadcasts.

I believe that dragons have a need to chew firestone. All dragons have always chewed firestone during Intervals. I think that they will continue to do so, even when the need to teach the next generation (of riders, I suspect dragons know by instinct) how to do it has passed. So whether you believe that Kitti Ping engineered the greens to be sterile from birth, or whether you believe, as I do, that greens are engineered to become sterile upon chewing firestone, and that one exposure is enough, makes no difference. (I also really don't understand why so many want greens to breed...)

I can see the Harpers continuing as the main mediators and teachers of Pern, but I can't see a situation where most people whould have access to AIVAS directly. However, I can imagine an auxiliary printer hall being set up at Landing (where did the main Printer Hall go?), with the task of copying those documents researchers at Landing would consider of interest to the general population.

With holders becoming more aware of their rights, as well as their duties, under the Charter, one should hope that the risk of a tyrant like Fax arising again are decreased, although I'm really looking forward to seeing Toric get his comeuppance.

The most arbitrary leadership election is the dragons mating to choose Weyrwomen and Weyrleaders. Now that the threat of thread is on the way out, it might be interesting to see if that couldn't be changed somehow... At the very least, an unanimous Weyr should be able to "impeach" a bad sr WW, if there is another fertile queen around.
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Old Dec 11 2004, 02:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: New Government Structure

its a pity they couldnt impeach weyr women in 9th pass Pern-I've been reading dragonquest and she's such a danger AND totally useless. She doesnt even take care of Pridith properly!
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Old Dec 11 2004, 02:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: New Government Structure

I think that the governmental syatem will saty very similar to what it is in the ninth pass. there will still be people who are in charge of their own hold, and it is still likely that the Pern-wide system would stay similar - Conclaves etc.

The biggest change is most likely to take place in the Holds thermselves, with the hereditary principle being challenged. Especially as it is likely that more formal schooling will take place. But I still think that the system for schooling is unlikely to change too much ie. in-hold schooling, but Landing is likely to advance itself as a learning institute, perhaps to the detriment of some of the main Craft Halls, though they are very likely to retain their positions as the major 'learning institute for their particular skill-base. I can also see every craft having a Hall in Landing, for access to the computers and their files.

In summary, I can see the systemsd adapting as more of the Southern continent becomes viable, and as the danger of Thread is no more. But Governmental systems never change immediately, other than in the aftermath of a revolution.
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Old Dec 11 2004, 04:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: New Government Structure

That's interesting, C_ris, about what you said re. Landing's position as a learning centre.

Perhaps a system of education could spring up where Landing becomes the focus of some crafts, and the rest are spread among their various halls, or else something similar to a university=Landing as opposed to vocational college=craft halls would occur.

There is also the question of population dynamics, and the stresses attendant upon being able to feed the excess population in, say, the north, as opposed to the problems of opening up the south.
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Old Dec 11 2004, 05:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: New Government Structure

Possibly ghyle, but i think that the main Craft Hall of each Craft would still retain its position as the primary teaching area for the particular area. I see it being more that clever students sent to Landing to get a background in ALL Crafts, then to be picked by the crafts for specialised training... probably more college=Landing, univeristies/advanced teaching places=main Craft Hall.

But Landing is also likely to be the main research facility, with the computers and everything, so i may well be wrong.
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Old Dec 11 2004, 06:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: New Government Structure

I haven't put much thought into what sort of government Pern will have post-9th Pass (I'm not even that interested in Pern post-AIVAS, so it's small wonder.) I do think that, if the Weyrs are maintained, there is DEFINITELY going to need to be a way to remove Weyrleaders without having to wait for mating flights. Question: what would the purpose be of maintaining the military structure of the Weyrs, anyway? What purpose do the Weyrleaders serve when there isn't Fall to be trained for or flown? Especially if dragonriders are going to be picking up crafts and potentially moving out into Weyrholds (more in a minute) what purpose does any Weyrleadership serve?

As for Weyrholds--small holdings with a couple dragons and their riders and non-riders, I can't see. Pridith and the watchdragons don't like even visiting holds much because they're alone, and firelizards seem to be colonial animals in the wild. But in Skies, it's suggested that there are frequently more than just Golanth and Zaranth at Honshu. If there were, say, a couple dozen dragons or so, would it be better? Perhaps one queen and a variety of the rest, akin to a wild firelizard fair?

I'm not entirely sure I can see the Conclave/Lord Holder system holding up, especially once people start spreading out. Regarding the Charter: did they rewrite it? Because I very much doubt the original has anything about the government of Pern being a feudal oligarchy. Especially as Weyrs break up and cease to serve their traditional purposes, and holders spread out across the Southern and potentially Western continents, people are going to start to wonder, "Why do I have to work for my living and give a percentage to some clown of a Lord, when I don't get any say in who that Lord is? What gives him the right to dictate where I live, or what I do with the products of my labors?" What's to stop a Lord Holder like Toric from saying, "Why should I answer to what a bunch of Northern Lords who've never liked me to begin with and have only been interested in what I can do for them, including take their excess sons? What I do within the boundaries of MY lands is my business. You want to dictate to me? Come and make me." Are the dragonriders going to have to maintain Northern Weyrs as true military outposts to enforce the will of the Conclave? (Because that's military action, not police.) Would dragonriders living in a Weyrhold be answerable to the local Lord Holder? If not, why not? What makes them more special than the non-dragonriding holders? That they have a dragon? Wonderful. They get a dragon AND they're exempt from what other holders have to do.

I guess I can see, if it were written logically, a major social upheval coming. The Lords are going to want to hang on to their system because it's tradition and because they feel entitled to it. That's what they were born for. But as the planet-wide threat fades out, more and more 'average joes' are going to realize that they really don't want to be working for someone else, unless they get a say in who that someone else is.
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Old Dec 11 2004, 08:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: New Government Structure

I think that Lord Holders authority and power will be diluted within the traditional areas of their Holds, but i think that they will still have the major position on the world-wide system. Remember that democracy was not even asked for until a large percentage of the people were sufficiently educated to question it. And that it was the middle class which asked it. There is not a lot of middle class on Pern at all, if any. I thinl that such a thing WILL come around, but slowly and not for a decent length off time after the last Pass has finished. Several generations at least.
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Old Dec 11 2004, 08:24 PM   #11
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Default Re: New Government Structure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anareth
Question: what would the purpose be of maintaining the military structure of the Weyrs, anyway? What purpose do the Weyrleaders serve when there isn't Fall to be trained for or flown? Especially if dragonriders are going to be picking up crafts and potentially moving out into Weyrholds (more in a minute) what purpose does any Weyrleadership serve?
Not a whole lot, really! What will matter is having good Weyrlingmasters still, who can train the new impressees. Even without Fall and the need to learn fight tactics, there is still much to learn about the care of dragons, as well as safe flying and betweening. And to me I can see this training most effectively imparted in a pseudo-military boot camp style, to impress its importance on the weyrlings.

Hmmm, for those riders that do choose to remain in a traditional Weyr setting, there will be need for leadership, just in terms of keeping the community fed and establishing basic discipline (no, you may not let your green's mating flight happen over a population center!), and perhaps organizing trade for the products of the riders' crafts. But it won't need to be military style leadership, clearly. I would guess that different styles of leading will emerge at different Weyrs, and over time people will transfer to live where they might prefer the leadership style better (or perhaps where they prefer the climate and can live with the leader). And rather than having the leader determined by mating flights, it will be by popular accolation. I can see democratic voting coming about at Weyrs actually, but interestingly not at Holds where the land is owned by the Blood family in charge.
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Old Dec 12 2004, 01:49 AM   #12
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Default Re: New Government Structure

Cheryl has got a point about the need for weyrlingmasters.

Perhaps, that's where weyrs will stay: as sites for the training of young, and possibly also the locations for mating flights, and for eggs to harden and impressions made. That way, whist riders might live in isolated weyrholds, they would have central places to return to for important aspects of a dragon's life cycle.

I still feel that some acount would need to be made in relation to the dragon population and the cessation of thread. As the population declines after a pass, and only picks up at the start of another, how do you see that as affecting the numbers of dragons? One we can gain some idea of how many will be around in the future, we can start to gain a clearer idea of their overall impact on the political and social developments of post-thread Pern.
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Old Dec 12 2004, 04:19 AM   #13
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Default Re: New Government Structure

I'm pretty sure that dragons won't be as numerous 50 Turns after the last threadfall as they were, say, 10 Turns into the 9th Pass, when Ramoth's offspring had already reproduced too. However, I don't see them becoming as few in number as at the start of DF. Since queens make up about 1 % of dragons, perhaps 3-5 queens spread over the whole planet, with 300-500 dragons altogether might be realistic? Such a small number would mean that some Weyrs would be abandoned as surplus to requirements.
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Old Dec 12 2004, 01:46 PM   #14
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Default Re: New Government Structure

Quote:
Originally Posted by c_ris
I think that Lord Holders authority and power will be diluted within the traditional areas of their Holds, but i think that they will still have the major position on the world-wide system. Remember that democracy was not even asked for until a large percentage of the people were sufficiently educated to question it. And that it was the middle class which asked it. There is not a lot of middle class on Pern at all, if any. I thinl that such a thing WILL come around, but slowly and not for a decent length off time after the last Pass has finished. Several generations at least.
I'm not saying IMMEDIATELY, but I think sooner than you think. Especially as education isn't the only factor or even the most important. It's distance. One of the major reasons for the American revolution was a lack of representation in government combined with the government being half a world away. As people spread out across Pern, it's going to seem dumber and dumber for them to answer to a Lord they barely ever see, and again in whose identity they have absolutely no say. In fact why should Lords on the Northern continent have any say at all about the lives of those in the South? Or on the Western Continent? Only a small minority of the population has access to instant transport via dragon, and as the dragon population declines that number will get smaller, not larger. As more and more people become more and more decentralized, they're going to find fewer reasons to answer to people half a world away who are only in their positions because they're from the right bloodline and were put there by people who hold their offices for the same reason. I don't think letting the Craftmasters and Weyrleaders (if there are any Weyrleaders) have a say would ultimately make any difference. Because someone is MasterHarper or their dragon flew a senior queen doesn't make them a good politician or particularly in tune to the needs of herders on the Southern plains.
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Old Dec 12 2004, 07:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: New Government Structure

Quote:
Originally Posted by granath
I'm pretty sure that dragons won't be as numerous 50 Turns after the last threadfall as they were, say, 10 Turns into the 9th Pass, when Ramoth's offspring had already reproduced too. However, I don't see them becoming as few in number as at the start of DF. Since queens make up about 1 % of dragons, perhaps 3-5 queens spread over the whole planet, with 300-500 dragons altogether might be realistic? Such a small number would mean that some Weyrs would be abandoned as surplus to requirements.
I disagree with that, as during an Interval the number of dragons is still enough to fill up all of the weyrs, though probably not to more than 200-300 per Weyr. They will always be wanted and needed on Pern.
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Old Dec 13 2004, 02:06 AM   #16
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Default Re: New Government Structure

With the weyrs, though, there will be a problem in that with the loss of thread as their primary reason for existing, so too will a lot of tithing, and feelings of gratitude to them fade. They will become, unless they find their own sources of income, a burden upon the land holders.

As to distance being a factor, it's easy from the example of Southern that the southern continent can be held by holders, that make their holds their, rather than just answer to northern ones. There may be some forms of alliances, based upon shared history and bloodlines, but that is not necessary.

There is the possibility that large areas of the southern continent could be controlled directly by the weyrs, for their upkeep and supplies; what do people thank of that possibility?
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Old Dec 13 2004, 02:53 AM   #17
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Default Re: New Government Structure

Ghyle, I think that's the way the Weyrs are heading. F'lar hinted as much in Skies, I think it was, or possibly AtWoP, about the Weyrs discharging their duty. There were also some complaints about dragonriders choosing the best real estate for themselves in Southern.

The Weyrs were still full during all but the 8th Interval, because the dragons were still needed when the next Pass came around. Of course, given the fact that there's no more thread, Pern could support a small population explosion when new areas are opened up for Holders. 6 million people isn't very much for an entire planet, although not bad given the few thousands or so they started out with.
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Old Dec 13 2004, 11:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: New Government Structure

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghyle
With the weyrs, though, there will be a problem in that with the loss of thread as their primary reason for existing, so too will a lot of tithing, and feelings of gratitude to them fade. They will become, unless they find their own sources of income, a burden upon the land holders.
True there's no more reason for tithing, but then without having to fight and train to fight Fall anymore, the dragonriders will have time to learn productive crafts and farming and support themselves.


Hmmm, the more I think about it, the more I see the need for some sort of reporting structure for dragonriders still, even the ones that choose to live isloated from other dragons/riders. Theivery, especially to feed one's dragon, could be come a major issue - since stopping a dragon from taking whatever farm/herd animal he/she wishes isn't really possible. Some authority figure would have to hold the rider responsible for allowing/encouraging his dragon to steal, and that figure needs a bronze or gold dragon that can blast the theiving dragon six ways to sunday so that it doesn't happen again!
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Old Dec 13 2004, 12:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: New Government Structure

In Skies, I think it's implied that the dragonriders are going to want lands that holders wouldn't. Which is utter rot unless they're going to keep up the tithing system, because the dragonriders are going to need arable land plus land suitable for grazing large animals, and while the Southern Continent's big, it's not infinite. So if F'lar wants to have supply farms and Weyrholds in the South, he better move fast to claim the lands while the common people are still feeling grateful. I can see a lot of resentment against the riders, especially as the memory of Thread fades. Not only do they get super-special dragons, they're no longer are risking life and limb AND they get first dibs on the good lands? Right now, people are feeling kindly disposed towards the dragons (though already there are people who don't believe Thread is gone forever, and who can blame them? That's centuries of conditioning to overcome.) I can't see that lasting once dragons cease to be necessary for survival and become just a nice perk for special people.

Honestly, I think a serious exploration of Pern post-AIVAS, especially after the "hero" generation dies off, would show a world with a lot of serious social upheval and potential for violence. Thread wasn't fun, but it forced a very rigid social order on things, and now the reason for that order is gone. They've moved out of their Dark Ages into a combination of the Enlightenment and the Age of Discovery, and a realistic socio-historical perspective would suggest that it wouldn't just be a simplistic fight between Abominators versus AIVAS-worshippers. Their whole society is going to change and there are going to be far more things to adjust to than just having electric lights or some talking dolphins. Social and settlement patterns will change, status and how it's attained will be altered, literacy should increase with the advent of printing presses (which will not only make teaching easier, it'll force the Harpers to reevaluate bottom-of-the-barrel approaches to education using simple rhymed songs to pass along history in favor of more nuanced methods.) Technology will grow--even if AIVAS has paternalistically locked away "bad" things (and when it comes to technology, "bad" is a completely subjective term) the more people will study, the more they'll be able to extrapolate on their own. And the more educated people become, the less and less likely they'll be to accept "The Ancestors wouldn't have wanted us to do X" or "AIVAS wouldn't like it", as the fallacies of those arguments become increasingly obvious.

Basically, once the hero generation dies, Pern should be in for a nice big socio-cultural mess that would actually have the potential to be more dramatic than ending Thread.
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Old Dec 13 2004, 12:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: New Government Structure

I really like your analysis, Anareth. I truly hope those changes would get explored, by Todd if not Anne. Or else some talented fanfic writers.
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Old Dec 13 2004, 04:00 PM   #21
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Default Re: New Government Structure

Yes, thanks, Anareth. You've raised important matters about the effects of AIVAS and the dangers of post-thread Pern that are important.

Would you see the rise of political systems, I wonder, within the major holds? Would Lord Holders be replaced by other systems, whether oligarchic in nature or otherwise? Would there be inter-hold conflict, as the population pressures on existant lands grow, and how would dragons be used in this circumstance?

We know that having a common culture is not enough to stop fighting between places -- look at the history of pre-Hellenistic Greece for that.
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Old Dec 13 2004, 04:12 PM   #22
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Default Re: New Government Structure

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghyle
Yes, thanks, Anareth. You've raised important matters about the effects of AIVAS and the dangers of post-thread Pern that are important.

Would you see the rise of political systems, I wonder, within the major holds? Would Lord Holders be replaced by other systems, whether oligarchic in nature or otherwise? Would there be inter-hold conflict, as the population pressures on existant lands grow, and how would dragons be used in this circumstance?

We know that having a common culture is not enough to stop fighting between places -- look at the history of pre-Hellenistic Greece for that.
there is only one type of governemnt that we can rule out as taking control of Pern. And that is theocracy (rule of God, or rather his/her 'representatives').
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Old Dec 13 2004, 07:04 PM   #23
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Default Re: New Government Structure

As ninth pass develops you see more democracy, in SOP there are the petition and throughout the books conclaves and councils become more and more open. I've a feeling that'd develop.
As for the dragons. Some will join crafts, a dragon working for the runners could mean that runners could be even more efficient providing an extra link between stations, or as a healer-even if they cant actually do much medicine-they're transport, harpers, smiths etc could all use dragons. In Dolphins T'lion talks about the idea of working with miners to provide lift, grunt etc.
Other dragonriders will have to farm etc and the weyrs could provide a link for the dragons that are spread out. They can congregate together still and go to work.
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Old Dec 14 2004, 01:28 AM   #24
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Here's a thought: with the increase in unrest, what sort of crimes and the like do you see increasing?

Do you think that dragonriders will become less sacrosanct, and more a taget of assaults and other attempts? Will forgery of marks become an issue? What of cons, and the like?

How likely will there be a rise in hoaxes and scams as a result of social unrest?
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Old Dec 14 2004, 10:09 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghyle
Here's a thought: with the increase in unrest, what sort of crimes and the like do you see increasing?

Do you think that dragonriders will become less sacrosanct, and more a taget of assaults and other attempts? Will forgery of marks become an issue? What of cons, and the like?

How likely will there be a rise in hoaxes and scams as a result of social unrest?
hmmm... interesting...

there will almost certainly be more crime, especially as after the Last Pass, the major punishment of becoming Holdless will not be very serious really... But i think that it will be a LONG time before dragons would begin to lose their sacrosant place on Pern.
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Old Dec 14 2004, 10:47 AM   #26
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Default Re: New Government Structure

Unfortunatly there is ALREADY a large group of people who have a hatered towards the dragon riders. Personally I think some of it is jealousy.

I think that crime will probably increase but I think on the flip side the ability to control it or at least go after the criminals will also become more organized because with thread gone the people who were once focused on that (not necessarily the dragon riders but maybe some of the support staff) will be able to gear themselves towards policing or those types of things. I'm not sure if some of the dragonriders will become some kind of police force or not... Would be a thought.

I do see the Abominators becoming somewhat like a Pern style Mafia of sorts though.
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Old Dec 14 2004, 11:10 AM   #27
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yep, and Toric will be there in the background.
I can see a split in the lord holders with the more liberal ones such as, Ranrel, Deckter, Asgener, Larad, Jaxom and Groghe on one side and the more conservative, such asToronas, Kashman, Toric etc on the other.
especially when the older stabilising characters such as Lytol, D'ram and Groghe die off.
you could even end up with 2 alliances and crafts and dragons forced to choose sides...
that would be disasterous to pern. good idea for a story though. if a bit depressing.
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Old Dec 14 2004, 01:16 PM   #28
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Of course there's jealousy against dragonriders--and rather understandably. The common people rarely saw what happened to riders during a Fall, and as such saw only the plus side. And with Thread gone, there will be only the plus side--dragonriders are now literally just super-special people who hit life's lottery, no longer a fighting force who trades off the wonderful bond with a dragon with the frequent risk of violent death or maiming. I can definitely seeing that resentment becoming an increasing problem, and as they loose priviliges they're used to, the dragonriders making the problem worse, not better. I can easily see the dragonriders having a sense of entitlement--we spent all of Pern's history defending you peons, now we'll do as we please and you should be grateful. Particularly I could see that coming from dragonriders AFTER the end of Thread, those who never saw it, either, human nature being what it is.

Foregery and shaved marks are already a problem--depending on how the economy goes it might get worse, if they go more and more to a currency-based system of exchange as opposed to simple barter. I canNOT see a true open system, where everyone is sweet and good and gives what's needed etc. There are too many people with too many specialized crafts and with too limited a means of production in small areas. There would have to be systems of trade of some sort.

I actually can see there being more than just a split between the Lords, who would be increasingly irrelevant on the new Pern. Possibly a state-like breakup, in which there are separate "countries", with the Southern Continent developing a new governmental structure or structures that completley eliminates the Lord Holder/Conclave system, in favor of a more representative system as the population becomes more educated, while the North becomes a more fragmented city-state system. If Toric and his successors played it right, his huge holding could end up a separate state of its own, and then there's the wild-card element of the Western Continent and the Eastern Islands, and whether or not those can be settled.

The dragonriders really are a problem as they stand. Treating them as a separate and special population is going to inevitably mean trouble, especially if they end up acting as a police force for the old order of Lords and such when the people lose patience with being de facto serfs. That would confirm the image of dragonriders as the spoiled priviliged class. I could see it being politically advantageous for dragonriders to eliminate the practice of Searching entirely, and simply require that anyone who want to stand meet certain physical/mental requirements, eliminating the perception that riders are chosen by other riders, whether that's accurate or not.

I can see problems coming with the craft system, too, especially if more and more people go to Landing for school. That's going to create a disparity in degrees of education, and you'll end up with people who can't even really communicate with each other. If there are people who are learning to use computers, build complex machines, study advanced mathematics, working in the library, and another set who are still learning little ditties from the Harpers and never get beyond basic math and literacy, you'll end up with a class of academic elites and a whole lot of the average people who aren't going to like them very much. The Harper system of educating probably ought to be dumped in favor of Pernese "public schools", where they're given a more standard "3 R's" education and prepped so that those who get to go to Landing's school (a college/university?) are chosen by objective testing rather than by subjective Harper estimations, and those who show less academic bents of mind are put into vocational training in Crafts. Access to AIVAS obviously can't be universal, but it can't be limited to those chosen by a few Master Harpers without an objective measure, and it can't be limited to people they LIKE. Otherwise it ads to the suspicion/distrust and potential for rebellion.

I'm wool-gathering. It's too complicated to really come up with every possible alternative, but suffice to say it wouldn't be simple, it wouldn't be nice, and the entire weight of human history is against it being nonviolent, or if it started as nonviolent it staying nonviolent for long. And Anne's written herself into a corner if she wanted to be realistic by having a bunch of characters who essentially benefit from maintaining the political status quo--special treatment for dragonriders, nonrepresentative government, wartime-style decisions made by unelected leaders once the threat is passed, all attitudes based on the assumption that most of the people are dumb peasants. It would, realistically written, be a real mess, and probably an intereseting one, too.
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Old Dec 14 2004, 04:56 PM   #29
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Anareth!

You've been going into more detail, and have shown more thought than I, and it seems to me, somewhat, that I am sometimes just bouncing around your posts more fallowly than anything else.

Anyway, I see a major element in the future being land and landholding. Evidently the opening up of the southern continent has shown a lot more arable land, and I see how the landless are already avid for the chance at being able to hold it.

In the future, though, political power could easily come from being able to hold lond, and work it. If the Lord Holders are to come extinct, it will be due to those under them taking the land that they till already.

As for education, it is my understanding that the harpers will expand to cover the new avenues of education as part of their area of expertise. Thus there will be a basic education in the holds, with the most bright sponsored to Landing; of the rest, they will either follow crafts or else other basic professions.

There will probably be other changes with the rise in availability of printed material. Such as the rise of news-sheets, for example, serving a role similar to the chapbooks of old, or the newspapers of today.
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Old Dec 14 2004, 05:30 PM   #30
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You can see the birth of a newspaper of sorts with Tagatarl's announcement of the FireBall flood.
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Old Jan 17 2005, 03:27 PM   #31
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I think that the natural course will be for a slow change to a more demorcratic form of government - a Pern congress of some kind???
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Old Jan 17 2005, 04:07 PM   #32
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It's a nice idea Larry but I personally see a door opening to chaos. Once the "commoners" get a look at the charter they will all feel entitled to their own personal holdings. As large as Pern is, I don't think it's big enough to give that many people their own stakehold. I think of myself in the position of one of the farmers or such like on one of the holds. My ancestors were on the ships too. They were entitled to claim land for themselves. Where's my share? I think revolutions of many sorts may erupt as soon as the Thread stops falling. Maybe sooner.
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Old Jan 17 2005, 06:07 PM   #33
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Perhaps it'll be like a sort of goldrush for land to start with that will slowly die off as the novelty went. Establishing a new hold won't be easy and people will begin to see disadvantages such as distance and cost. Though if there is a mass migration south-what'll happen to northern lands if they're not maintained?
I can see where both Larry and Sandi's ideas came from, and how they could happen-perhaps both happen. There'll have to be a new lord in the south at this rate though, or lesser holders having more power to represent if there's to be 1 pern-wide government.
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Old Jan 18 2005, 11:06 AM   #34
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Default Re: New Government Structure

Quote:
Originally Posted by edith
Perhaps it'll be like a sort of goldrush for land to start with that will slowly die off as the novelty went. Establishing a new hold won't be easy and people will begin to see disadvantages such as distance and cost. Though if there is a mass migration south-what'll happen to northern lands if they're not maintained?
I can see where both Larry and Sandi's ideas came from, and how they could happen-perhaps both happen. There'll have to be a new lord in the south at this rate though, or lesser holders having more power to represent if there's to be 1 pern-wide government.
i think that there will have to be an equal number of Lord Holders in the South as in the North. Otherwise then it would skew a Pern-wide government.
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Old Jan 18 2005, 12:33 PM   #35
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though theres a higher concentration in the north, and I cant see the more conservative lords being happy with more of them.
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