A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum  

Go Back   A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum > The Anne McCaffrey Collection > Dragonriders of Pern

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Dec 23 2004, 08:10 AM   #1
Larry Lea O-G
Inactive
 
Larry Lea O-G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Louisville, KY USA
Gender: M
Fan of: Moreta/Nerilka's story
Now Reading: A Gift of Dragons
Question Charter Changes -Admendments?


My understanding is that before the colony left Earth the Pern Chater was signed by all. Each charter signer was allowed "stake acres" or holdings as a kind of homestead. All people had equal rights... with contractors who had the skills to get them there received additional land for payment.

There would be no such thing as "Lord Holders," or Weyrs or Craft Halls though they had plans for an apprentice system for trades.

After thread and the move north "it was decided" [when?] It is only in"The Ford of Red Hanrahn" that Mairi refers to Red as a lord and says that is what your you know. near the end Peter invites Red to open the door of the hold and says, "My lord of the Hold, will you complete the ceremonial closing?" That was an informal use of the term...

By the beginning of the second pass the charter describes the "rights" of Lord holders and the weyrs and crafts but there the colege has not yet become "Harper Hall" and the medics have not become "Healers" neither have halls.

So at what convention did the Charter get fromaly changed?
Larry Lea O-G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 23 2004, 06:23 PM   #2
Greenrider Tresa
The Contrary
Planetary Brain
 
Greenrider Tresa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Gender: F
Fan of: The Ship Who Searched
Now Reading: The Calhoun Collection, Nora Roberts
Default Re: Charter Changes -Admendments?

This sounds familiar...

Maybe it wasn't actually changed, just the interpreation was...You know how there's errors when things are being copied by hand. Say a copy is damaged/faded so the word stakehold looks like hold - you get Hold/holder. As for Lord, not sure, maybe someone just recalled that incident and decided the term should become formal for all Holders of larger holds.



Tresa
__________________
Thinking, understanding, reasoning, willing, call not these
Soul! They are its actions, but they are not its essence.

Akhenaton? (c. B.C. 1375)
Egyptian King and Monotheist


Greenrider Tresa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 24 2004, 02:50 AM   #3
ghyle
Hrruban
Eighth Hrruban Speaker
 
ghyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: northeast New South Wales
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern & Freedom
Now Reading: The Umbrella Club / David Brooks
Default Re: Charter Changes -Admendments?

Perhaps it had provisions for being a subholder, leasing from another holder, and in doing thus setting up the distinction between Lord Holders and those beholden to them.

Mind you, I think that maybe with the establishment of the second hold the shift to Lord Holder became apparent, and that the equivalent of Lord Holder is etymologically derived from a different term, given the linguistic shifts remarked upon. And, further, this original term is that used in the charter.
ghyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 24 2004, 05:35 AM   #4
granath
Talent
Tower Prime
 
granath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Proud Mom!
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon
Now Reading: Faye Upton: Dragonchoice 3
Default Re: Charter Changes -Admendments?

When they wrote the Charter, there was no provision made for dragons or Weyrs, so I should think that a lot of the amendments were made in conjunction with the move north to include the Weyrs.
__________________
Decaf coffee is an oxymoron. Instant coffee is an abomination. Give me the real thing and nobody gets hurt.
"Do. Or do not. There is no try" -- Yoda
VP of the Afra Lyon fan club!
granath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 24 2004, 08:41 AM   #5
Larry Lea O-G
Inactive
 
Larry Lea O-G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Louisville, KY USA
Gender: M
Fan of: Moreta/Nerilka's story
Now Reading: A Gift of Dragons
Default Re: Charter Changes -Admendments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by granath
When they wrote the Charter, there was no provision made for dragons or Weyrs, so I should think that a lot of the amendments were made in conjunction with the move north to include the Weyrs.
I think you are most correct. I just re-read Dragonseye and in their reading of the Charter for the missabused holders the Weyr's rights are listed as well as Lord Holrders and common holders and Craft Halls. So I think that at some point during the first pass and after "the Ford of Red Hanrahand" a meeting and ammended the charter. The College and Medics also became Harper hall and Healer hall.
Larry Lea O-G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 24 2004, 10:55 AM   #6
Hans
Master Archivist
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern!
Default Re: Charter Changes -Admendments?

I am convinced there are at least two, and probably several more, version of the original charter, the biggest change indeed being to adapt it to the society that came into being in the decades after the Second Crossing (the move north to shield).

I am still studying the charter. Unfortunately nothing much is known. The major subject that comes from the charter -- the one we know most of -- is punishment and the judicial system. It has the most references.

Anybody caring to do research for references or rather extrapolations that can be made from the books in relation to the charter are welcome to browse through a Word document I compiled and add and/or comment to it. I use to have a group of four Pern readers who were interested but for some reason we lost contact...

Interested? Mail me at: info@pern.nl
__________________
Hans, also known as Elrhan, Master Archivist

Visit The Pern Museum & Archives for all your Pern and Anne McCaffrey News and Resources!
The Pern Museum & Archives is the home of the Pern Encyclopedia and the Pern Bloodlines.
Hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 24 2004, 11:29 AM   #7
c_ris
Journeyman Harper Roedin
Wing Second
 
c_ris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Great Britain
Gender: M
Fan of: the Dragonriders of Pern!
Now Reading: The Elder Gods - Eddings
Default Re: Charter Changes -Admendments?

I think that it is likely that the Charter was less 'officially' amended ie through discussions, but adapted through Turns of necessary change, until it beame simply a formality for the Official Charter to be changed.
__________________
Roedin Of Pern

"When a harper is silenced, all men should listen harder." AtWoP
c_ris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 24 2004, 12:47 PM   #8
Larry Lea O-G
Inactive
 
Larry Lea O-G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Louisville, KY USA
Gender: M
Fan of: Moreta/Nerilka's story
Now Reading: A Gift of Dragons
Default Re: Charter Changes -Admendments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by c_ris
I think that it is likely that the Charter was less 'officially' amended ie through discussions, but adapted through Turns of necessary change, until it beame simply a formality for the Official Charter to be changed.
But the fact that in Dragonseye it was all writeen down and on plasflim indicated that there had been some offical amendments to the charter.. Everything was spelled out in detail....
Larry Lea O-G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 24 2004, 12:48 PM   #9
Larry Lea O-G
Inactive
 
Larry Lea O-G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Louisville, KY USA
Gender: M
Fan of: Moreta/Nerilka's story
Now Reading: A Gift of Dragons
Default Re: Charter Changes -Admendments?

Hans I will be glad to help with that project... what do you want done??
Larry Lea O-G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29 2004, 12:57 PM   #10
c_ris
Journeyman Harper Roedin
Wing Second
 
c_ris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Great Britain
Gender: M
Fan of: the Dragonriders of Pern!
Now Reading: The Elder Gods - Eddings
Default Re: Charter Changes -Admendments?

I'll help too!
__________________
Roedin Of Pern

"When a harper is silenced, all men should listen harder." AtWoP
c_ris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29 2004, 03:55 PM   #11
ghyle
Hrruban
Eighth Hrruban Speaker
 
ghyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: northeast New South Wales
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern & Freedom
Now Reading: The Umbrella Club / David Brooks
Default Re: Charter Changes -Admendments?

I'd like to give you a hand as well, time permitting (I have so many things to do this year, I may be slow).
ghyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29 2004, 08:43 PM   #12
Larry Lea O-G
Inactive
 
Larry Lea O-G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Louisville, KY USA
Gender: M
Fan of: Moreta/Nerilka's story
Now Reading: A Gift of Dragons
Default Re: Charter Changes -Admendments?

OK Hans looks like you have a new crew
Larry Lea O-G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 5 2005, 04:45 AM   #13
Kath
Starsmith


Weyrwoman
 
Kath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oop North

Fan of: Moreta
Default Re: Charter Changes -Admendments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans
I am convinced there are at least two, and probably several more, version of the original charter, the biggest change indeed being to adapt it to the society that came into being in the decades after the Second Crossing (the move north to shield).
I'm 99% certain that at some point during either Dragonsdawn or Chronicles 1 there's a discussion of a revision of governance during the thread emergengy. The second crossing would certainly have been the point at which the groundwork for the current system was laid down - everyone needed a secure hold.

What does surprise me is that the leadership of holds didn't quickly move to an elected leadership. Yes, people like Red who got in early to a good cave site could claim their stake acres around it, but with limited resources available is it really fair to restrict the choices of the populace who lived there on their rights to decide on how the place would be managed? Perhaps a better example of this is in the case of Fort Hold, which began as more of a refugee camp. There would undoubtedly have been committees to start with; where did they go?

Given the pre-existence of the 9th-pass holder system, rulership would have had to devolve to a hereditary system at some point in Pernese history, but why so soon? Why couldn't the Pernese realise that they were all stuck in the same boat together, and instead of insisting on the rights of a minority to hold their stakes after the 2nd crossing, couldn't they have maintained the right of individual autonomy whilst recognising that in a refugee/limited resources situation they were better off putting the most competent people in charge rather than letting leadership simply pass to the spouse/offspring of the previous incumbent?
Kath is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

A Meeting of Minds forum owned by Cheryl B. Miller.
All references to worlds and characters based on Anne McCaffrey’s fiction are copyright © Anne McCaffrey 1967-2008, all rights reserved, and used by permission of the author.