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Old Apr 23 2015, 07:04 PM   #1
Rhodalle
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Default Holds or Not?

I am making a map. I noticed that in the Atlas of Pern there are places listed that don't say "hold." For example, there's "High Plateu Hold," and then places just listed as "Greystones" or "Far Cry."

On the wiki and fan-maps, these are listed as "Greystones Hold" and "Far Cry Hold" but, what if this is just an assumption or fanlore that went viral?

So what I want to know is: Are they ever mentioned in the books, DLG or Atlas as holds?

What about the board-game? Someone sent me the list of holds from that game a while back but I seem to have lost it. Is it fair to consider those canon? Should I get ahold of that list?

The locations I have in particular question are:

Greystones
from the Pern Enyclopedia: Greystones Hold: named after the Irish coastal village of the same name, situated near to Anne's Irrish hometown of Newcastle in Country Wicklow.
Bayhead
Pern Encyclopedia: Bay Head Hold: a Hold situated in Benden Hold, on the shore of Nerat Bay [Fonstad-AoP/9].
Loreana [Mor].
Far Cry
?
Katz Field
From the Pern Encyclopedia: Named after: Katz Field Hold is obviously named after Jay Katz, Anne McCaffrey's real-life lawyer and friend, who is also mentioned in the acknowledgements of DLG1.
Southern Telgar
Is Southern Telgar a specific location or just "Southern Telgar?" Like "Southern Florida?" There's a dot drawn on the map. Does that make it a hold/specific location?
Compbell's Field
Gar (Ista)
There is a "Hold Gar" in Fort. From the Encyclopedia: Gar Hold: [Mor, Dfire].
Healers: Golnisk [Mor].
Lady of: [D1/138].
Is this referring to the Gar of Fort? I don't remember those references from Moreta and can't find my book and have never read Dfire.
Sea Cliff
From the Encyclopedia: Sea Cliff [Hold?]:
Healers: Kylos [Mor]
Red Sands
Peyton
From the Encyclopedia: Peyton Hold: [Mor].
Healers: Bregard [Mor].
Sattle
Green Fields
From Pern Wiki: Campbell's Field Hold - Beholden to Crom in Second Interval; beholden to Telgar by Ninth Pass.
River Bend



So Bayhead has references in Moreta, with the character Loreana? I don't mean to question the trustworthy fans who have been around longer and know more than me that put together the various maps and encyclopedias.. I just want to be sure that even though these places seem to be referencing people and things personal to Anne.. are they really holds? Or was that just presumed? When it says that a healer hails from Peyton, or Bayhead, does it just mean they come from that region? One that encompasses a bunch of minor holds that people may not to remember the name of, so they just name the region in general? This actually seems more sensible to me.

Are any really just regions with various cotholds or minor holds? Do some have no holds at all?

Here's a piece of the map and how I'm treating these places not listed as holds in the Atlas:

Btw, I know Moreta's Hold is not called "Moreta Hold," I just figured sometime after Moreta's death they'd just rename her hold after her, being that she was such a big hero... And because we fans identify the hold as "Moreta's Hold" but never have an official name.. Idk, this is sort of a personal project but I'll probably make a canon version that doesn't make this assumption.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...t.png~original

Last edited by Rhodalle; Apr 24 2015 at 04:05 PM. Reason: Updated Green Fields 2nd Update: new image
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Old Apr 23 2015, 07:09 PM   #2
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Default Re: Holds or Not?

Also, yes, in the layers you can see the map by AMCAlmaron on DA. I asked him some time ago if I could take reference from his map and he was fine with it, I'm not tracing, just checking that the long. lat. lines are adding up, and also used a merged version of the Atlas's pages, both Northern and Southern regions, as well as some maps from the books, so I'm taking reference from many sources to which I give credit.

Last edited by Rhodalle; Apr 24 2015 at 04:06 PM. Reason: Updated image so some comments were irrelevant
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Old Apr 24 2015, 03:20 AM   #3
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Default Re: Holds or Not?

I think that Southern Telgar is both a region and a specific hold: just as Fort and Ruatha are.
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Old Apr 24 2015, 05:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Holds or Not?

P'ter, I think you make a good point. I don't remember enough from the books unfortunately, but there wouldn't be a dot on the map if there wasn't something specific there. It might not be a big hold, so not sure if I should label it, or just leave up for interpretation..

I also was having trouble with the border, because the "dot" was below the river, signifying that the proposed hold should actually be in Igen. According to the wiki, South Telgar is beholden to Igen Weyr, but that's not really significant.

I am having such a hard time deciding how to shift the border rationally around that dot on the Atlas that doesn't cut poor hot Igen off from the river...

I actually thought about having South Telgar Hold being located in Igen on this map, but not sure I can expect that to actually be canon.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...u.png~original

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Old Apr 25 2015, 07:02 PM   #5
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Default Re: Holds or Not?

I'm pretty sure the ones you're asking about are minor holds. Some of them are mentioned in the DLG if I remember right. But I can't remember if they show up on the game board or not.

That's a cool looking map, by the way. What program are you using for it? Photoshop?
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Old Apr 25 2015, 11:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: Holds or Not?

Yes, I need to go read my DLG again.. I saw a list of holds in a section of the book called "New Holds in Old Places," basically reveals where there are Ancient's ruins in Southern. This will definitely come in handy. But I admit I haven't read on the actual Northern holds that in-depth yet, in case it mentions minor holds in that section. I will have to read more thoroughly.

For now, I'll consider those areas on the map as both regions and/or minor holds/clusters of cotholds that add up to a minor hold territory... I'll leave it open for interpretation.

And thanks. I am assembling real earth DEM data in Photoshop, then bring the rough map into Wilbur in sections and erode the terrain to help make it seamless and recalculate rivers and drainage. This makes the earth data something unique and original. Then I generate a new heightmap and bring into PS, re-merge, and color in PS with adjustment layers. There's a nice tutorial that generally explains the process in Photoshop here: http://www.cartographersguild.com/sh...ad.php?t=18280

This process adds rivers and details that just aren't shown in any of the canon maps, so I don't know if I can claim this as canon standard. But when going for a slightly-bigger-than-mars size, a lot has to be presumed for realism.

Last edited by Rhodalle; Apr 25 2015 at 11:29 PM.
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Old Apr 29 2015, 02:17 AM   #7
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Default Re: Holds or Not?

Well, I have the "canon" Northern Continent map finished enough here..http://theweyrsoath.deviantart.com/a...less-529868104 if anyone feels like critiquing, please do! I'm still improving it.

Last edited by Rhodalle; Apr 29 2015 at 02:18 AM. Reason: um, forgot link lol
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Old Apr 29 2015, 02:52 AM   #8
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Default Re: Holds or Not?

Nice
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Old Apr 29 2015, 05:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: Holds or Not?

Wow! That's really cool.
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