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Old Jul 26 2015, 09:35 PM   #41
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Default Re: F'lar and Lessa: Why?

The Healers would be trying to preserve knowledge about surgeries, so they would keep performing surgeries. The patients, OTOH, would see less and less surgeries and would eventually have a distrust of them. The Healers would teach every candidate the basics of surgery, which would include stitching wounds, minor surgeries like appendectomies and tonsillectomies and C-sections.
Blood transfusions would have fallen into disuse unless they had some form of tubing to connect the patients. Transfusions from collected donations only started in the 1930s, pioneered by Dr. Norman Bethune. The usual method before that was direct transfer from donor to recipient via tubes.
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Old Aug 2 2015, 04:12 PM   #42
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Default Re: F'lar and Lessa: Why?

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The Healers would be trying to preserve knowledge about surgeries, so they would keep performing surgeries. The patients, OTOH, would see less and less surgeries and would eventually have a distrust of them. The Healers would teach every candidate the basics of surgery, which would include stitching wounds, minor surgeries like appendectomies and tonsillectomies and C-sections.
Blood transfusions would have fallen into disuse unless they had some form of tubing to connect the patients. Transfusions from collected donations only started in the 1930s, pioneered by Dr. Norman Bethune. The usual method before that was direct transfer from donor to recipient via tubes.
They used a special salt mix, after Merelan had Robinton in the Masterharper of Pern.
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Old Aug 2 2015, 05:08 PM   #43
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Default Re: F'lar and Lessa: Why?

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Most births were probably attended by midwives, not healers.
That reliance on midwives probably saves at least as many lives as it costs.

The Pernese do seem to have a pretty good grasp on hygiene: wash your hands, disinfect wounds and medical instruments, don't let excrement flow into your drinking water, and empirical observation would tell them that overcrowding people or animals lends itself to disease. They even have a decent theory of contagion. They probably don't know what a virus or bacterium is, but they know that illnesses don't spread because, say, the ghost of your great-aunt is angry that you didn't name the new baby after her. Culturally, they've kept the idea that the world works in ways that can be understood -- they've just lost most of their tools for doing so.

But even under those conditions, going to a Healer facility to give birth surrounded by a bunch of sick people would be dangerous for mother and baby. Having a pretty good grasp on hygiene and contagion doesn't amount to having modern standards of sterility. A woman giving birth in her own bed, with an experienced midwife using basic hygiene, no sick people in residence, and no strangers coming and going, is going to have a better outcome than if she'd gone to the Healers, unless something goes wrong that requires surgical intervention.

Midwives were a much safer bet than physicians up until a hundred, hundred fifty years ago in real life. Puerpural fever will kill you dead.

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most 'modern' Pernese had seen (or heard about) a baby animal being delivered by C-section
It'd be the rare Pernese who hadn't seen a baby animal born, and they'd probably all at least know that you could cut a baby out of the mother. For that matter, it'd be the rare Pernese who hadn't seen baby animals being conceived, either -- livestock are notoriously lacking in shyness about such matters .

Readers seem to assume that it's practically Victorian England outside the Weyrs when it comes to sex, but there's really no way that the Pernese could keep their children ignorant about sex, and no particular reason they'd want to. The Holdfolk object to the promiscuity of the Weyrfolk, with women openly having multiple lovers and children being born out of wedlock, plus homosexuality and the bewildering mechanics of dragonflights. But they don't object to sex itself.
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Old Aug 2 2015, 06:22 PM   #44
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Default Re: F'lar and Lessa: Why?

Speaking of Lessa and her son's difficult birth, does it ever say in the books where Ramoth went during that time? Anne says that she wrote down somewhere that Ramoth had to be forcibly taken away because Lessa was in so much pain, but I don't remember reading about that in any of the books

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"Someplace, and I now can't remember where, I mention that Ramoth had to be forcibly taken from Lessa's vicinity when she was in labor with F'lessan since the queen reacted so fiercely to Lessa's distress. (I had natural childbirth, too, and it aint fun even if there is a reward at the end of it.)

--from Anne McCaffrey in response to an email from Debbie Griffin, DragonRiders member, received 14-Apr-2001
She also said this on the topic of Pernese surgery:

Quote:
REGARDING SURGERY

"There were men trained for surgical procedures on Pern but there were few because those who could have trained them in that specific area of medicine died before they passed more than 'repair' work on. No X-rays available, either, until dolphins could provide some guidance. However, a distaste/fear for invasive surgery did develop - see Masterharper of Pern where the Fort Holder died from a burst appendix rather than permit the MasterHealer perform an appendectomy. (That was a common, easy operation and numbweed and fellis would have rendered the work painless.) But 'surgery' had dwindled into necessary repair - rather that elective surgery. Caesarian sections were common enough - so were amputations - but surgical matters that would have required, for instance, X-rays or scans were impossible. With numbweed and fellis, the atrocities of Earth's Middle Ages up to say 1950's were not inflicted.

"Despite the fact I have twice taken advantage of prosthetic replacements to arthritic joints, I am more apt to use homeopathic medication than the g.d. antibiotics. Since modern medical sciences are now looking more carefully and less critically into 'natural' medicines and procedures, Pern reflects that. And, despite being able to bio-genetically engineer species on the new world, all that expertise was lost with the deaths of its practitioners - and no resupply. So, yes, Pern was/is far ahead of early medical procedures [medieval and renaissance medicine --ed.] on Earth.

"There are quite a few fans who have delved into the Healer Craft, including manuals on the imports and the indigenous herbs and plants. Try one of the Pern fan groups for their sources. Ciao now and thanks for your keen interest in the subject. (I do get expert assistance from physicians when I'm dealing with such problems on Pern.)"

--from Anne McCaffrey in response to an email from DragonRiders member Kate Eltham, received 25-Sep-2000
Hope that helps.
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Old Jun 14 2016, 07:37 PM   #45
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Default Re: F'lar and Lessa: Why?

I think that you are overlooking two very large elements in the situation: Mnementh and Ramoth. The dragon pair seems to have a strong bond and this is influencing F'lar and Lessa. We do not know just how much the dragon influences the rider and vice versa, but there are indications that the bond is very strong.

Mnementh and Ramoth are often described engaging in public displays of affection. It could be that Lessa falls in love with F'lar simply because Ramoth has bonded with Mnementh.

Addendum: While the first rising of a Gold dragon is a big deal with many Bronze dragons in the contest, there is very little said about subsequent mating flights. Is this due to the bonding of the pair in the first flight? There is an implication that this is the case when F'nor says that Canth could fly Brekke's Wirenth.

Speaking of that flight, Prideth should not have tried to interfere if she was bonded to T'bor's Bronze. However, Kylara may have had enough influence over Prideth to remove that bonding, as Kylara certainly had no intention of being monogamous in her life.

Last edited by Kennet; Jun 15 2016 at 04:33 PM. Reason: inserting addendum
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Old Jun 15 2016, 01:23 PM   #46
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Default Re: F'lar and Lessa: Why?

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The reason Lessa believes F'lar about Thread returning is because she herself has experienced "warnings" - including the one that saved her life when Fax invaded. F'lar says something about the Red Star becoming brighter in the mornings, and she says "Mornings... that's when the warnings come." I think that makes her open to the idea.
The "warnings" were the result of having gone back in time to those moments when she experienced them. The quotation above comes just before the lesson where she accidently went between times for the first time. Then F'lar tried it too, going back to a time when Mnementh was too young to join Nemorth's mating flight and receiving the impression that he (F'lar) would be Weyrleader someday.
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Old Jun 19 2016, 10:18 PM   #47
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Default Re: F'lar and Lessa: Why?

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Originally Posted by Kennet View Post
I think that you are overlooking two very large elements in the situation: Mnementh and Ramoth. The dragon pair seems to have a strong bond and this is influencing F'lar and Lessa. We do not know just how much the dragon influences the rider and vice versa, but there are indications that the bond is very strong.

Mnementh and Ramoth are often described engaging in public displays of affection. It could be that Lessa falls in love with F'lar simply because Ramoth has bonded with Mnementh.
Not to mention that sex creates emotional bonding chemicals in a woman's brain. A "nice" li'l trick biology plays on us.
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Old Jun 25 2016, 01:59 PM   #48
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Default Re: F'lar and Lessa: Why?

Eriflor - I know that, but she doesn't at the time in that scene, so that is her reaction - he mentions the Red Star in the mornings as a threat, and she associates that with the warnings, so is willing to believe him.
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Old Jun 25 2016, 03:19 PM   #49
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Default Re: F'lar and Lessa: Why?

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Midwives were a much safer bet than physicians up until a hundred, hundred fifty years ago in real life
Even in 1970s; Holland, where home deliveries were still the norm, had a far better record on post-partum haemorrhage the England, where hospital deliveries were the norm.
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Old Jun 25 2016, 03:32 PM   #50
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Default Re: F'lar and Lessa: Why?

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Midwives were a much safer bet than physicians up until a hundred, hundred fifty years ago in real life
Even in 1970s; Holland, where home deliveries were still the norm, had a far better record on post-partum haemorrhage the England, where hospital deliveries were the norm.
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Old Jun 27 2016, 12:56 AM   #51
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Something to be said for being surrounded by your own bacteria. Not all germs are bad.
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