Pernese versus Terran terms

[Hans]

Ginny, I don't think that belongs on the ist as we on Earth actually do not have an equivalent of foot messengers any more (the old Greek and Romans did).
We could say runners = couriers but even then there is too much difference between them.

Good try though!

[Kath]

Plus, 'runners' is an established term on Earth anyway, particularly for messengers at large events/within large establishments.

[I worked as a runner at the Royal Cornwall Show for several years as a kid.]

[Hans]

Ah, that's new to me Kath. Thanks. The equivalent in Dutch would translate (better as) messengers.

[GinnyStar]

Originally Posted by Kath

Plus, 'runners' is an established term on Earth anyway, particularly for messengers at large events/within large establishments.

[I worked as a runner at the Royal Cornwall Show for several years as a kid.]

Thank for the suport, one that.

Myself I seen at our little port your could call then runners as such helping to park the small airplane and other tell them where to park cars, or tell messages.

[GinnyStar]

Originally Posted by Hans

Ginny, I don't think that belongs on the ist as we on Earth actually do not have an equivalent of foot messengers any more (the old Greek and Romans did).
We could say runners = couriers but even then there is too much difference between them.

Good try though!

If not on that thread where? Or a new thread within the Dragonrider of Pern section? Do let me know?

[Hans]

I don't think it merits a new thread at all, but if you want to start one, go ahead.

This thread is purely for Pernese - Earth equivalent terms and names.

[T'mynn]

Whew! I read through all seven pages. :-D

Ok here's my take on the "Bubbly pies". Not turn-overs as stated more like a pocket pie. Pocket pies can be quit sturdy unless you sit on it then your clothing is messed up with amost embrassing stain.

In the Mid-western and southern US, they've "Hand pies", Pocket pies", and "Fry pies".(probably more regional terms I hadn't found yet.) In other countries, they have "Curry pies","'Empanadas" and other monikers I don't know..yet..

All are the same food item, they can be filled with fruit, meats, cheeses or vegetables, Pre-made uncooked/cooked or easily assembled and cooked to order at gather site. All they'd need would be a fry pan with oil, or a deep vat and fry 'em.


Dang, now I'm hungry for one.<sighs>
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The other words and such I've read concerning seeming discrepancies for the same thing,(hang over for instance) it might be Pernese dialectual differants.

[T'mynn]

Originally Posted by Hans

Ginny, I don't think that belongs on the ist as we on Earth actually do not have an equivalent of foot messengers any more (the old Greek and Romans did).
We could say runners = couriers but even then there is too much difference between them.

Good try though!

The cloeset to a runner that we have are the bike messengers that are employed in crowded cities like new York, LA, Chigago. etc.

Maybe another clsoe equivalent would be the "Gopher". a person in a business or movie industry intern who "goes for" XYZ for ABC person. Maybe. <shrugs>

[Brenda]

Originally Posted by T Mynn Enz

Whew! I read through all seven pages. :-D

Ok here's my take on the "Bubbly pies". Not turn-overs as stated more like a pocket pie. Pocket pies can be quit sturdy unless you sit on it then your clothing is messed up with amost embrassing stain.

In the Mid-western and southern US, they've "Hand pies", Pocket pies", and "Fry pies".(probably more regional terms I hadn't found yet.) In other countries, they have "Curry pies","'Empanadas" and other monikers I don't know..yet..

All are the same food item, they can be filled with fruit, meats, cheeses or vegetables, Pre-made uncooked/cooked or easily assembled and cooked to order at gather site. All they'd need would be a fry pan with oil, or a deep vat and fry 'em.


Dang, now I'm hungry for one.<sighs>
------------------------------------------
The other words and such I've read concerning seeming discrepancies for the same thing,(hang over for instance) it might be Pernese dialectual differants.

Some might be fried, but in Dragonsinger and Dragondrums they are baked.

[T'mynn]

Yep. I prefer them baked anyway. Fring can get messy and gross. The pie variantions I mentioned can be baked too. They taste better this way.

[Pernaficionado]

I always felt that "sand tables" tables were a diract equivalent what the asian cultures initially used to practice calligraphy, although i don't know what the appropriate word might be, and that "slates" were a direct equivalent of a chalk board, particularly as described in "Dragon's Fire" were the mute boy has one hung around his neck and writes in chalk to communicate with people. I also thought of redfruit as strawberries, being rather tart and juicy and oddly shaped and I think i remember something about small seeds.

[Pernaficionado]

in the U.S we have something called "Hot Pockets" which is a brand name for pretty much the concept that T Mynn is trying to get across and I always envisaged "meat rolls" as a Hot Pocket and "bubbly pies" as a turnover. But, as T Mynn points out, we have many Terran terms that are all synonyms for one concept and I think that "meat rolls" is the Pernese synonym for the "savory" half of the concept and "bubbly pies" is the synonym for the "sweet" half of the concept. I also think in both cases that the one word describes a large range of individual dishes that vary regionally, especially since it even mentions "fish rolls" in DS, sort of like "pasta" here on earth. How many pasta dishes do you think there are?

[Pernaficionado]

Stalagtites, stalgmites, only caves have got 'em
Tites are always on the top, and Mites are on the bottom.

Courtesy of the Berenstien Bears tv show, and how i have remembered since I was eight.

[Pernaficionado]

DQ(and others)
Hidebound+narrow minded/traditionalist?
basically illustrates the whole"a zebra can't change his stripes" and "can't teach and old dog new tricks" concepts but how do we pin it down to a single synonomous phrase?

[Pernaficionado]

I don't really think we can go with a "wherry = Avian/Bird" thing. the dragondex specifies that wherries are " A type of fowl roughly resembling the domestic turkey of Earth, but about the size of an ostrich."
Moreta, DEL REY 1st Edition

I certainly believe there are different breeds of wherry, and maybe some can fly and others can't. but there is definitely not a direct parallel for that here on earth.

[Pernaficionado]

I noticed a number of people have selected books to search through. All of which so far are anne's. Hans, will you be taking terms from Todd's books as well? I would like to help Search(<--) through them for you.

[Hans]

Yes PA, Todd's books must be incuded.

[Pernaficionado]

Yay!!! I will get right to work then and re-offer:
SLATE= SMALL, PORTABLE CHALKBOARD.
Based on uses described in Dragon's Fire by Pellar, the mute child from the Harper's hall

[Hans]

Unfortunately that's not a Pernese term. Early 20 century Terran schoolchildren were still writing on slates, too and had been for a long time

[P'ter]

I was using one in 1947!

[Hans]

But that's because you lived in a backwards country

The rest of the world had pen and ink by that time

[edith]

Ha! Some schools are now using slate sized whiteboards.
I think Mum wanted some for her old maths classes.

[T'mynn]

heheh now there are computers called "Tablets". <snciker>


A Pernese 'chalk board". Hmm how about a tablet? Or a "flat skin"?

[GinnyStar]

They use dry marker board, white in color, at tech school! The smell of the dry markers when used did't quite agree with me. Along with the sound of them writing on it!

There is something about a type of wax to write when slate it not around. Wax over stone tablets.

In Even the Twin there is something about that too. Books not to hand, still packed, Harper Hall.
A large square of slate was attached to the soothes wall, showing the day lesson.
Fathest what stone ledge with cubbyhold in stone, for chalk and slates for youngest ones, and a table for older students to use. Large wooden desk of local wood, and books have chains connected to them for they are rare.

[edith]

Wax tablets were used by the Romans.

[T'mynn]

Yep and they used a couple of types of syllis to make the markings.

On Pern, I'd figure they'd have a type of naturally occuring chaulk. Earht has rocks that can be used to write on sidewalk, softer ones to write on slate.

As for the device's Pernese moniker, I don't have a clue. Might call it a 'writting board" or something.

[Hans]

OK, let's get back on topic and reserve this thread for the suggestion of terms and take the discussion elsewhere in this forum.

[Danel]

Sandtable - Earth terms An abax or Sand Table (They are still used to this day)

An abax was a table covered with sand commonly used by students, particularly in Greece, to perform studies such as writing, geometry, and calculations.

However in Perns case I think the harperhall trilogy specifies a more advanced use, in that Musical Scores were jotted down on sand tables, then after corrections and modifications, wax was poured and the indented notes (etc) are made into a more permanet wax raised relief.

Technically, with what Anne divulged and by logicial extention, this raised wax relief, if then filed(smothed) down a little to even the height of all the notes, could then function as a primative form of a hand operater type of ink stamp printing press. The only need here would be that the 'sand' in the sand table was more the consitancy of talc or another fine powder for writing smaller instead of larger notes and words, and was slightly damp to hold it's consitancy while wax was being poured onto it.

Infact using various stylus' (and Harperhall trilogy in book 2 mentioned Menolly using a Stylus on her sandtable) in the shaps of the notes, measure bars, and note bars, this method could render some very good, and consitant, reproduction techniques.

Probably more info then you wanted, but still cool to think about.

[Danel]

I can't remeber where I read this one, but "A few eggs short of a full clutch" which would corralate to "A few cards short of a full deck".

I honestly can't place what it was I read that in though.

[Hans]

That would have to fall under sayings and proverbs and the likes and while I have a section with those on my Pern website www.pern.nl it isn't the purpose of this thread...

I think we did have a thread on them, or maybe rather fun ones, in this forum though

[Maya]

I misspoke above. An argument for wherries being a variety of species is the fact that while there're undoubtedly flying wherries, there also seems to be a flightless variety commonly kept by Holders. It'd be kinda difficult to keep your flock of wherries around if they were capable of flying away. And before anyone suggest that the holders somehow clip their wings, remember there's a scene in TWD where Jaxom and Ruth hunt wild wherries in the Southern Continent by running them down.

What about turkeys here on Earth? *The only reason I'm using turkey because I've consistently found that people describe wherries being similiar to turkeys.* Being of a redneck/hillbilly-farmer family, I can say that the more you breed a species in a perticular enviroment i.e. a coop, since we're dealing with birds, the less they will have a perticular trait such as flight. So maybe the only difference is the enviroment wherries has been bred in-wild vs. Hold?
The only counter-argument I can think of is turkey and other browsers can fly but not for very long. Just long enough to get above the predator's head and land on them to attack with their sharp, surprisingly sharp, beaks and talons. *Personal experience*

[GinnyStar]

Originally Posted by Maya

What about turkeys here on Earth? *The only reason I'm using turkey because I've consistently found that people describe wherries being similiar to turkeys.* Being of a redneck/hillbilly-farmer family, I can say that the more you breed a species in a perticular enviroment i.e. a coop, since we're dealing with birds, the less they will have a perticular trait such as flight. So maybe the only difference is the enviroment wherries has been bred in-wild vs. Hold?
The only counter-argument I can think of is turkey and other browsers can fly but not for very long. Just long enough to get above the predator's head and land on them to attack with their sharp, surprisingly sharp, beaks and talons. *Personal experience*

Well there are two type of wherrys at least to the ECC report. perhaps they domesticated the smaller version for Hold, Hall, and Wyer.

[bingley]

Dragondrums Simon Pulse edition, pg 62. Piemur is speaking:

"I'm bloody sure, Menolly. Do you think I'd do anything to get in the Masterharper's bad record?"

where we'd say his bad books.

[Hans]

Good find, Bingley! Thank you! It verges on being a saying of course but nevertheless a very good find.

[bingley]

Actually, I think it does occur in Dragonsong and Dragonsinger as well, but I didn't note it down at the time.

[bingley]

The White Dragon, pg 218 Del Rey edition:

"He put on his warmest underfur, heaviest tunic, pants and extra liners in his boots."

("He" being Jaxom).

Underfur = underwear? It's not clear to me whether 'underfur' is something you wear under your furs or furry underwear (ticklish I would have thought). Which raises another question I'll post in another place.

[bingley]

Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern in the Del Ray omnibus: On Dragonwings, page 627

"They made private bets with about winners when Moreta refused to allow Alessan to mark her with the wagermen."

Wagermen = bookies

[GinnyStar]

Originally Posted by bingley

Dragondrums Simon Pulse edition, pg 62. Piemur is speaking:

"I'm bloody sure, Menolly. Do you think I'd do anything to get in the Masterharper's bad record?"
Where we'd say his bad books.

I've found the one I was look for black record Moreta, Dragonlady of Pern
By Anne McCaffrey http://books.google.com/books?id=OTH...ecords&f=false Page 90

[Eriflor]

Originally Posted by Lily

<snip>
And i bet a breastband wasnt a brassiere (sp) as we know it
probably just what it says - a firm band bound around the breast

(wouldnt be much fun for a nursing mother would it?
I wonder if they had elastic?)

Wouldn't be much fun for any girl with more than a size 34 bust, so I'm betting on a band that goes just UNDER the breast, with maybe a supporting band round the back of the neck.

Eriflor.

[GinnyStar]

I'm not too sure but would this be something like an accountant on Pern?

Marksmen if they had a head for figures?