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View Poll Results: Kylara, Evil or misunderstood?
Evil through and through! 22 23.66%
I don't think she was Evil but she certainly was no angel 63 67.74%
Purely misunderstood. 2 2.15%
The Purple monkeys are the ones to ask. 6 6.45%
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Old Nov 27 2004, 02:51 AM   #1
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Default Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Ok we've been here before but I'm going to put it on this forum because it was on the last one

Kylara did some stupid things, some very selfish things and was trying to undermine the autority figures in her life constantly.
But was she an Evil person out to cause nothing but trouble or was she just misunderstood and treated badly by those around her? Or do you think something in between, not necessarily Evil but not completely misunderstood either.
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Old Nov 27 2004, 05:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

I still think she was a spoild brat who became worse as a queen rider
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Old Nov 27 2004, 06:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

I disagree I think she was "evil", in that she was selfish through and through and had absolutely no concept of what it could be like to see a bigger picture and maybe even put the welfare of others above herself. :Even her dragon had to take second place to her needs
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Old Nov 27 2004, 07:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

If Kylara's evil, does that mean that every selfish, vain, self-centered spoiled brat is evil?

Between darkness and light are shades of gray. Kylara's not bad for the sake of it, there's a reason behind her actions.

Not that i'm defending her, mind, just taking a different view.



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Old Nov 27 2004, 07:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Self-centered beyond repair, to the detriment of those around her. But not purposefully evil.
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Old Nov 27 2004, 07:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl
Self-centered beyond repair, to the detriment of those around her. But not purposefully evil.
I'll agree with this one
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Old Nov 27 2004, 07:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

I guess your definition of "evil" would have to enter into the answer of this question. She seemed to enjoy "making waves" even when she had no real interest in something, just to watch the reactions of those affected. In my opinion, that's evil. When you make trouble for trouble's sake, what else can it be called? Granted, her worse deeds were a result of being self-serving but I think she just enjoyed upsetting people. Besides, I don't have a lot of respect for anyone so totally dedicated to their own personal gratification.
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Old Nov 27 2004, 07:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandi
She seemed to enjoy "making waves" even when she had no real interest in something, just to watch the reactions of those affected. In my opinion, that's evil.
There's making waves for the fun of watching, and then there's causing specific lasting hurt/harm. I'm not sure I'd call the first evil, though it's certainly an ugly character trait.
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Old Nov 27 2004, 08:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl
There's making waves for the fun of watching, and then there's causing specific lasting hurt/harm. I'm not sure I'd call the first evil, though it's certainly an ugly character trait.
I think she made trouble just so people would pay attention to her.
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Old Nov 27 2004, 08:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

There's mean, and then there's evil. Not like she went around burning cats for the fun of it or something. Now that would be evil.



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Old Nov 27 2004, 08:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

i do not think that kylara was evil, but neither was she pourely misunderstood.
She was a spoilt brat who always wanted things her way, and as such didnt think about others. She was a bad person, but not evil.
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Old Nov 27 2004, 09:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

I think that she felt slighted by those around her mixed with a touch (or a bit more) of arrogance. She was certainly oversure of herself!
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Old Nov 27 2004, 09:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Kylara was a vain, self-centered, lazy little twit who made waves to get all the attention focused on herself (Wearing red, the traditional BRIDE'S color, to her half-sister's wedding). She didn't care about anyone's feelings but her own, and that may have included her dragon. (I still haven't figured out how that little tramp managed to Impress.... I can't figure out how Ramoth ever let her near the egg to start!)

But "Pure Evil"? No, that would have been too much like work. I can't see Kylara putting the effort into polanning like Thella did, for example. Thella was Pure Evil .... Kylara was her little sister.... Evil Incarnate.
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Old Nov 27 2004, 11:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

I think she's spoiled Brat.. she shouldn't got that queen. that's my opinion
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Old Nov 28 2004, 01:25 AM   #15
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

When saying she shouldn't have gotten the queen, remember whose doorstep to lay that on--Lessa's, with F'lar as willing conspirator.

I think Kylara was misunderstood, and certainly selfish, but hardly evil. Particularly in DF, she's at worst a rather spoiled little girl who has the strength of personality to Impress a queen AND not be totally bowled over by Lessa--and instead of being taken in hand, Lessa ships her off, first across time and space and later just to the ends of the Earth, leaving her stuck there in a role for which she's totally unsuitable. Remember WHY Lessa did it, too--jealousy and spite. I really can't blame Kylara for hating her. If anything Kylara's a tragic figure--she had potential and it ends up frustrated, and she becomes more and more out of hand until it destroys her. (Remember, tragedy doesn't usually mean "innocent victim"--it means someone like Hamlet or MacBeth. Kylara is definitely the Ophelia or Lady MacBeth of Pern--she could have gone one way, and ends up going another, partially through her own hubris and partially through the doings of those acting against her.)
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Old Nov 28 2004, 04:53 AM   #16
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

I definitely agree with your analysis, Anareth. Don't have much to add to that.
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Old Nov 28 2004, 10:45 AM   #17
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

that is a good analysis Anareth, but i think thats actions 'against' her were often caused by her in the first place, through her own attitudes.
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Old Nov 28 2004, 01:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by c_ris
that is a good analysis Anareth, but i think thats actions 'against' her were often caused by her in the first place, through her own attitudes.

Which is why I don't agree with Anareth's coplete statement. Lessa wanted Kylara out... well, If I were Wyerwoman and I had a junior Queen rider sleeping with everything on a bronze or brown, including chasing after the Weyrleader, I'd take steps to get her out, too! Jealousy would be only a small part of it. Kylara's comment to herself was she couldn't understand how Lessa could have given up the power of being THE Queen Rider by risking herself to bring the Oldtimers foward...... That right there tells me Kylara doesn't have the far-sightness or the selflessness to be the kind of rider Lessa, Brekke, or even some of the Oldtime Queens were.
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Old Nov 28 2004, 02:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

*Brekke*? You want to talk selfish...she couldn't even get over her hangups for her queen's sake. She has to basically be raped to get over her fear of sex. (Reread that scene in DQ with her hand F'nor. On Earth, we call that at best "date rape.") All through DQ she's a martyr, St. Brekke the Abused. The only time I've been able to stomach her is in fan fic, which gives her some motivation for her behavior besides psychological pathology. Probably the best thing that happens to her is her queen dying--she doesn't have the right mindset.

Heck, even Lessa would apparently agree--apparently it's great if queen candidates sleep around, just as long as they stay away from HER MAN. Cora, IIRC, is the one who in ATWOP is in the Weyr a week and is in and out of at least three bronze rider's beds. Screwing any male who's willing is not the problem--the problem is Kylara wants LESSA'S man, and apparently before Ramoth rose, F'lar wasn't entirely unwilling.

Even Kylara's failure to understand why Lessa couldn't take charge of Pern can be viewed as not such a bad idea--stepping back in favor of the Oldtimers leads to borderline inter-Weyr warfare, overt hostility between Weyrs and the Holds and Crafts, and ends up with two separte knife fights between Weryleaders and F'lar actually having to kill one. And I have to admit I share her opinion of Lessa's whinging about children. She's Weyrwoman of Benden and Ramoth's rider--why does she have to worry about having a bunch of brats and being F'lar's good little partner? THAT's irrational.
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Old Nov 29 2004, 07:14 AM   #20
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

thing is Lessa's surrounded by children in the weyrs and pern's a society when women are told that its good to be a mother. Lessa can see it happening all around her and she only had the 1 chance.
In my mind Kylara is a Troublemaker with a capital T.
And though she isnt entirely to blame-Impression really came too late for anyone to have any influence over her. Look at how Rannely-someone shes known all her life tries to warn her away from Meron and is ignored as rambling.
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Old Nov 29 2004, 11:13 AM   #21
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anareth
*Brekke*? You want to talk selfish...she couldn't even get over her hangups for her queen's sake. She has to basically be raped to get over her fear of sex. (Reread that scene in DQ with her hand F'nor. On Earth, we call that at best "date rape.")
I guess I've never blamed her for that because it seemed less like a choice to be selfish than a true phobic inability. Yes, she should have talked to someone about it sooner, but she didn't have many people around to have asked. It's not like she could have asked Kylara for help and been taken seriously. There was Varena though... Anyway, she was too trapped by her fears to be able to confront the situation herself.

And because her queen did die in her first flight, we'll never know how she could have grown to handle flights had that death not occurred. I don't like condemning her forever when she never got a chance to prove herself.

From what we did see at the start of that flight, she was fully her dragon and her hangups quite possibly wouldn't have surfaced -- even if F'nor hadn't forced the issue. And F'nor forcing it wouldn't have mattered much anyhow since he was still the only one she wanted.

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Old Nov 29 2004, 11:27 AM   #22
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

So, no doesn't mean no if you find the man attractive?

I have no respect for Brekke, I really don't, but then I'm a lot more like Lessa or Kylara--alpha female. I get along with others fine as long as they don't try to assert authority (particularly other females) so I can see where they're coming from a lot better than I can see where Brekke is coming from. (I don't think Lessa and Kylara are all that different, except that Kylara's a great deal more sensual, while Lessa spent that part of her formative years living undercover, focused on revenge. They're both manipulative alphas, but Lessa is both willing to take risks for something other than her personal interest and willing to subsume her personality for the sake of her mate. I can sympathize with the former, not with the latter.)

I think Wirenth dying was also a writer's way out as much as an escape for Brekke--a cheat so she wouldn't have to chose between loyalty to her queen and her inhibitions and her man. Would've been a great deal more interesting (and have made it easier to see her has anything but a doormat) if the flight had gone through and, much as I'd like to see a brown win, Canth lost. Brekke can't be the first to have hangups about what being a queen rider means, meaning presumably other people have gotten over themselves before. It might have helped, too, if she seemed to keep on suffering, instead of snapping out of it and being to all appearances basically normal in TWD and beyond. Not that she'd be interesting in a permanent fugue state, but she's supposed to be 'half a person' now.

I suppose I can just see where Kylara's coming from, and have to at least give her that she had backbone and initiative, where Brekke was content to be a victim, bouncing along and letting stronger people push her around.
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Old Nov 29 2004, 01:05 PM   #23
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

I think that you are being unnecessarily harsh towards Brekke. She had to do Kylara's job without Kylaras benefits. She didn't have time to dealwith much else.
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Old Nov 29 2004, 02:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandi, snipped
She seemed to enjoy "making waves" even when she had no real interest in something, just to watch the reactions of those affected....When you make trouble for trouble's sake, what else can it be called?
Instigator

Hell, we've all pretty much done that to some degree or another, especially at the old KT site.

Kylara was also often lazy, although she did have enough sense to try and help with the water problem at High Reaches. She was a bit like "Dr. Smith" after he stopped trying to kill off the Robinsons, and became more self-serving in her attitude (without the clownish nature J.Harris did ).

When things happened that adversely affected her, she did step in and try to fix it. The biggest problem she had was it was too little & too late, and she still allowed her own appetites to get in the way of fixing it, thus sliding back to her lazy bent. Of course, at that moment, the queens both rose & put the kibash on her party--I'd at least would've liked a blow-by-blow description as to what happened to Meron when the fight started
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Old Nov 29 2004, 02:54 PM   #25
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anareth
So, no doesn't mean no if you find the man attractive?
Oh, no no no! I meant to imply nothing of the sort! I wasn't addressing that issue at all!

We ought to perhaps start a whole new topic to discuss that question!
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Old Nov 29 2004, 02:54 PM   #26
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

yep. bet he shouted at that green rider-cos he said he wouldnt be weyred there.
On the thread about Kylara being helpful fetching tasks-it was only an excuse remember, what part of fetching water casks is being in Meron's chamber!
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Old Nov 29 2004, 04:59 PM   #27
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Exclamation Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuu
I'd at least would've liked a blow-by-blow description as to what happened to Meron when the fight started
I'm with you on that one Ryuu! I bet Meron came away with some interesting cuts and bruises

Although one part that perplexed me was why did Wirenth go between? I understand that she was in terrible pain, but I always thought that dragons wouldn't go between to die while their rider was alive and Brekke was very much so. Was it instinct? Did she know she was mortally wounded and wouldn't live? But even so, wouldn't her tie to her rider have kept her from suiciding?
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Old Nov 29 2004, 05:35 PM   #28
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Would need to look up DF. I've read the fanfic writeup on it, and there Prideth took Wirenth between.

I can relate better to Kylara and especially Mirrim than Brekke.
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Old Nov 29 2004, 05:49 PM   #29
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

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Although one part that perplexed me was why did Wirenth go between? I understand that she was in terrible pain, but I always thought that dragons wouldn't go between to die while their rider was alive and Brekke was very much so. Was it instinct? Did she know she was mortally wounded and wouldn't live? But even so, wouldn't her tie to her rider have kept her from suiciding?
A mortally wounded dragon will always suicide between. The alternative is to die in (potentially prolonged) agony and leave behind a huge carcass.

I've always assumed that Wirenth was either mortally wounded, or simply was trying to escape Pridith by going between but failed to plan ahead for a return from between.
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Old Nov 29 2004, 06:00 PM   #30
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legolas, snip
Although one part that perplexed me was why did Wirenth go between? I understand that she was in terrible pain, but I always thought that dragons wouldn't go between to die while their rider was alive and Brekke was very much so. Was it instinct? Did she know she was mortally wounded and wouldn't live? But even so, wouldn't her tie to her rider have kept her from suiciding?
The fight between the queens was described in detail in DQ. In it, Prideth had clamped her teeth on Wirinth's throat and severed the cartoid artery. It was Wirith's grasping Prideth and going between that killed the other queen because she was dragged between.
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Old Nov 29 2004, 06:56 PM   #31
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anareth
It might have helped, too, if she seemed to keep on suffering, instead of snapping out of it and being to all appearances basically normal in TWD and beyond. Not that she'd be interesting in a permanent fugue state, but she's supposed to be 'half a person' now.

I suppose I can just see where Kylara's coming from, and have to at least give her that she had backbone and initiative, where Brekke was content to be a victim, bouncing along and letting stronger people push her around.
Some people just aren't as pushy as others. Don't like it? Too bad. Take a GOOD look around you. If you feel you are more like Kylara, then odds are there's a Brekke somewhere close by taking care of details you gloss over.


Brekke also isn't the only person who lost a dragon, then continued to lead a productive life. Or do you prefer not to acknowlege Lytol because he is male? Or because we see him, when he's drunk, morning Larnth? I think it takes more backbone to get beyond that type of loss and continue to LIVE than to snap like a badly formed clay figue and remain a babbling idiot for life.
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Old Nov 29 2004, 07:28 PM   #32
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

i agree AnnMarie. Those who can live after losing such a close bond, like that between a dragon and rider show that really do have great inner strength. I think that one of the reasons why Kylara lost her mind when she lost Prideth was because it was on being Prideth's rider that she got all of the status that she loved so much. Without Prodeth she had no power. And she wouldn't be able to accept that.
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Old Nov 29 2004, 11:02 PM   #33
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Lytol, at least, has something...off about him. As in DF, when he can't even stand being around F'lar and F'nor and their dragons for any length of time, and how it takes Jaxom nearly dying to get him to express anything resembling affection for this kid he raised.

Does Lessa need someone going around doing what she glosses over? Lessa is far more akin to Kylara than to Brekke. Brekke spends her time doing other people's jobs rather than standing up for herself and learning that leaders delegate, they don't play martyr and quietly do everything themselves. You can't run a business that way, you can't run a kitchen that way, and it's apparently not a very good way to run a Weyr, either. (What Varena/Vanira/whatever her name was, it changes at one point, was doing during all this, I don't know.) Brekke might make a good cavern woman, but she was a lousy queen rider. Maybe if Wirenth had survived and she'd snapped out of her sexual hangups, that would have changed, but as it was she was little more than an enabler for Kylara.

Kylara had issues, but a lot of them would have been blunted at worst or eliminated at best if she'd been kept on a short lead and treated like a potential Weyrwoman instead of immediately shunted off as far as possible with a brown rider who didn't like her and a bronze rider who was besotted with her as the closest thing to an authority figure. If anyone botched the Kylara situation, it was Lessa and F'lar, and T'bor compounded it by lacking the will to stand up to her (to be F'lar to her Lessa and give her a proverbial 'shake' when she needed it.) And Lessa did it out of spite and unwillingness to face up to her not being the only strong-willed woman on a gold in Benden. Little wonder she liked Brekke--there's one who would never, ever be any sort of threat to her.

Lessa is what Kylara could have been with proper handling, Kylara is what Lessa could have been unchecked. (Remember, as far as we know, Kylara never murdered anyone, while Lessa as a teenager was responsible for the death of a Ruathan warder she admits to herself was not a bad person, but would have caused problems in her quest to get to Fax, and so he had to die.) Kylara's petty by the end, but if I were shipped off to run a hospital on the ends of the earth when I hate being in the boondocks and have no skill for or interest in healing, after having been promised a proper Weyr, I'd be rather upset, too, and wouldn't be very kindly disposed towards the people who stuck me there.
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Old Nov 29 2004, 11:21 PM   #34
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I always love reading your posts Anareth! Even if I don't agree with all of your analysis, it's always well-thought out and eloquently expressed!

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Originally Posted by Anareth
(What Varena/Vanira/whatever her name was, it changes at one point, was doing during all this, I don't know.)
Varena/Vanira seemed to have been off running a secondary infirmary site. Remember when Brekke was asked how many more injured could be accomodated, she said something to the effect of "Varena at West could take X". It's a leap, but that certainly makes it appear that Varena had rather similar responsibilities to Brekke's. Though she may have been less hands-on and delegated the work better than Brekke seemed to.
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Old Nov 30 2004, 12:05 AM   #35
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anareth snip
Kylara had issues, but a lot of them would have been blunted at worst or eliminated at best if she'd been kept on a short lead and treated like a potential Weyrwoman instead of immediately shunted off as far as possible with a brown rider who didn't like her and a bronze rider who was besotted with her as the closest thing to an authority figure. If anyone botched the Kylara situation, it was Lessa and F'lar, and T'bor compounded it by lacking the will to stand up to her (to be F'lar to her Lessa and give her a proverbial 'shake' when she needed it.)...
So instead of you hating one gold rider because she was "raped" by a brown rider (willing as she might have been), are you saying you'd prefer a gold that should've gotten slapped about a little by a bronze? How exactly would one go about putting Kylara on a "short leash"? Remember, Lessa didn't just get "proverbial shakes" from F'lar--she got some real ones that would constitute "spousal abuse" today

Quote:
Lessa is what Kylara could have been with proper handling, Kylara is what Lessa could have been unchecked. (Remember, as far as we know, Kylara never murdered anyone, while Lessa as a teenager was responsible for the death of a Ruathan warder she admits to herself was not a bad person, but would have caused problems in her quest to get to Fax, and so he had to die.) Kylara's petty by the end, but if I were shipped off to run a hospital on the ends of the earth when I hate being in the boondocks and have no skill for or interest in healing, after having been promised a proper Weyr, I'd be rather upset, too, and wouldn't be very kindly disposed towards the people who stuck me there.
Also, Southern didn't start off being a hospital, and when the other Weyrs showed up, Kylara is pissed that she didn't get "prime" real estate? Pern was in a very serious situation with only 2 understaffed Weyrs to protect the land that needed SIX full Weyrs. Evidently, Kylara never paid much attention to that little detail. As a result of her timing, she only became worse because her nature reinforced itself as she watched herself growing up...F'nor mentioned that little tidbit, which could only have meant she was violating the directives not to interact with their past.
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Old Nov 30 2004, 05:07 AM   #36
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Kylara did lose her vehicle to power when she lost Wirenth. However, it has to be said that like Thella she was the daughter of a Lord Holder, and had been accustomed to a certain amount of power all her life.

I always figured that the reason why Brekke was able to function so well without Wirenth is that she hears all dragons, like Lessa. Unlike Lytol, and that guy in Thella's band whose name escapes me for the moment, she didn't lose all contact with dragonkind when she lost her dragon. Somewhere deep down inside she's also probably relieved that she did lose Wirenth, because it allowed her to keep her sexual hangups and stay faitful to F'nor. She wasn't able to love her dragon as much as she should.
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Old Nov 30 2004, 12:17 PM   #37
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I'm saying LESSA needed to do the slapping. (And yes, F'lar's treatment of Lessa is at times disturbing, but also remember he knows her history of manipulating and killing people--let her get out of hand and you have BIG potential for problems. F'lar's an overbearing jerk at times in DF, but Lessa is very immature, too.) There is only one character in the Pern books who could have, at the early stages, gotten through to Kylara, and it's Lessa. Instead of hating and resenting her for being sensual and desireable to men, and plotting from the minute Ramoth laid Pridith's egg to get rid of her, Lessa might have been able to mold Kylara. Maybe not, but at least if she was kept at Benden she would be where people could watch her, and where Ramoth could keep tabs on Pridith. But, as I said, Lessa in DF is very immature. Yes, she does something brave--but she also does it out of hubris, putting herself and basically the future of dragons at risk to do it. Lessa's Ride is not the act of a reasoning, mature person, it's youthful hubris, which is heroic because it pays off. Just as an older Lessa isn't going to risk Ramoth by running off to the Red Star (even though at that point, technically, one laying queen among a couple dozen is largely irrelevant, and it might even be argued Ramoth's genes are overrepresented and as such would be LESS of a loss), an older, more mature Lessa wouldn't have heedlessly lept back in time with little more than a couple hours' plotting in front of a tapestry. And Lessa's emotional immaturity in DF basically sets up what Kylara becomes in DQ. Her territorial behavior regarding HER man is more important than training the obviously strong-willed Kylara to be a decent Weyrwoman, so she basically lets Kylara fend for herself.

The timing--could she have done that if there were more authority than F'nor and the obviously-useless T'bor? No. She wasn't going to answer to a brown rider, especially after he insults her the worst way you could insult Kylara--sexual rejection. T'bor's too much a wimp where she's concerned. Even R'gul would have been a better choice. Point--given it was going to only last two or three days, "real time", why NOT send Ramoth back with them? That gives you a lot more dragons for your effort, and since Lessa's already provided evidence that overlapping in time is hard, it might also be a clue to send them back before most were born. Then you not only help some of the time problem, you have a stronger older queen there to supervise. Mnementh couldn't be there to fly Ramoth? Excuse me while I repeat all those nice platitudes about "the dragon decides, the rider complies," which apply to everyone but the main characters. Ramoth is still older and senior in the present. If it were that important, too, F'lar would need to be gone only an hour in the 'present.' There's a whole book in that potential plot alone.

Even farming her out to one of the Oldtimer Weyrs would have been better than leaving her in the Southern boondocks. Sure, there need to be six Weyrs. But Kylara is not the right person to lead one in the wilds of nowhere. "Demoting" her to junior would be unfair, yes, but again, it puts her where she can be watched (and now they've been WARNED she has a mind of her own) and it means she isn't going to have seven turns of going stir-crazy. As for what I'd have done if she were after "my man" and how that's somehow an excuse--I wouldn't be dumb enough to do the one thing that puts her outside my authority. Lessa and Co. forgot one very true old maxim: "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer." If they'd set out to make Kylara a stir-crazy vengence-happy witch, they couldn't have planned it better.

I don't hate Brekke because she was raped. I hate her because she is supposedly strong enough to Impress a queen, and yet her goal in life seems to be acting as a doormat. Another reason I like the fan fic version of DQ--it provides a logical explaination for why Brekke puts up with Kylara beyond all logical endurance. The answer usually given is "Because she's senior", to which I finally say, "So what?" What is she going to do to Brekke? She can't kill her. She can't steal her man because Brekke either doesn't have one or he isn't interested in Kylara. She can't give Brekke MORE work, since Brekke's already taken all that on by herself. And because her story's only satisfying if you're basically a romance-novel fan, not a speculative fiction fan. Brekke gets her man and by all appearances she's really better off, because now she doesn't have to make any big choices or take on any responsibilities that upset her. That's not the sort of character I can consider worth repsecting, or reading about. Like what Aramina becomes in RoP, she's just the rabbit that gets run over by the semi. Mildly sad, but hardly the stuff of which great drama is written.
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Old Nov 30 2004, 07:05 PM   #38
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don't forget that the reason Kylara and Prideth was sent back in time was so that Prideth could mature and lay a clutch of eggs. If Ramoth and Lessa had gone instead, it would have meant that it would have been another two turns before Pideth could fly to mate.
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Old Nov 30 2004, 07:35 PM   #39
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Quote:
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don't forget that the reason Kylara and Prideth was sent back in time was so that Prideth could mature and lay a clutch of eggs. If Ramoth and Lessa had gone instead, it would have meant that it would have been another two turns before Pideth could fly to mate.
Reread what I said--I said send them BOTH. That way, while you're waiting for Pridith to mature in the old time, you have the already-mature Ramoth there, to mate while Pridith is growing up, and possibly more than once. With two queens, you get more dragons faster. And, as I also suggested, send them back before Lessa was born, or even farther, so that none of them are overlapping, as Lessa's reaction to being in two places at once should have already been a tip about what F'nor comes back to report about the strain.
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Old Nov 30 2004, 08:24 PM   #40
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Default Re: Kylara, a Bad girl or just misunderstood?

Sorry Anareth... your dislike of Brekke just came up against something I HAVE to comment on: you said:

I don't hate Brekke because she was raped. I hate her because she is supposedly strong enough to Impress a queen, and yet her goal in life seems to be acting as a doormat.
<snip>

Brekke admitted she had a problem, sexually, because of the way she was raised.

JORA was Wyer born and raised....Impressed a Queen... then not only let her queen over eat while she did the same thing, HER fear of HEIGHTS probably impacted Nemorth Far more than Brekke's sexual hang ups would have held back Wirenth.

Brekke had a reason for the way she was. Kylara did too...breeding and conditioning in the negative (all the pregoatives of power, none of the responsibilities...and that came from her FATHER long before Lessa was involved) How does a woman who's afraid of hieghts Impress a creature with wings to fly?
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