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Old Feb 4 2009, 05:57 AM   #1
Joz
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Default Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

I've finally got around to reading Dragonsblood and found I had a hard time putting it down at times, even though I agree with a lot of past comments on it. I particularly enjoyed the first pass sections and thought Wind Blossom was portayed rather well.

But here is the question: Wind Blossom mentions at one point there were three people/families trained as Eridani adepts sent to Pern. Kitti Ping and Wind Blossom were one, and Tubberman the second. Has there been a mention of who the third family was? I got the impression Pol Neitro (sp?) might have been it.
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Old Feb 4 2009, 08:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

Actually that would count as 3 - 1.Kitti Ping 2.Wind Blossom and 3.Tubberman - wouldn't it??? Not sure who else as I haven't read the book recently.
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Old Feb 4 2009, 11:47 AM   #3
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

WHAT?! In Dragonsdawn it very specifically mentions that Kitti Ping was the ONLY human to ever have been trained directly by the Eridani. Unless Adepts are just a group that are trained in the methods and equations, but not BY the Eridani. Wind Blossom was very likely trained by Kitti.

But Tubberman was by no means an expert. It says in Dragonsdawn that he is NOT familiar with engineering.
Quote:
But for Ted Tubberman, disgruntled botanist, to tinker with ova — and he had not at all understood the techniques or the process — to make independent alterations was intolerable to her, both professionally and personally
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Old Feb 4 2009, 02:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

Whether to count Kitti and Wind Blossom as one or two would depend on whether it's families or people.

We have "Anne-consistency." Now we have "Todd-consistency."
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Old Feb 4 2009, 04:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

Copied from Dragonsblood

Quote:
On the starships’ manifests Kitti Ping and Wind Blossom had been listed as geneticists. That title conveyed only a small portion of the full Eridani training Kitti Ping had received and had passed on to her daughter, Wind Blossom.
“Always a disappointment you were to me,” her mother’s calm, controlled voice came to Wind Blossom’s mind—a memory over forty years old.
Quote:
His expression changed. “I think you treated her harshly. Was Kitti Ping like that?” Wind Blossom examined his face before slowly nodding. “It is a great honor the Eridani bestowed on us.”
Quote:
“The Eridani like to take centuries to add a new species to an ecosystem,” she continued. “At the least, even with all the urgency of Thread, my mother wanted to spend decades.
“As it was, we did not have time to research more than the most obvious disease vectors affecting the fire-lizards before my mother created the dragons.”
Quote:
The Eridani Way is not the only way, she thought, partly in response to her mother’s words. Their thinking is deep, but they never thought of war. They never thought of the Nathi. They never thought of a time when no one could twist genes into new shapes.
Quote:
. But Wind Blossom knew that if she taught them the joy she found in genetics, they would be enraptured—and stuck with knowledge they couldn’t use. Committed, as the Eridani had always intended, to the Eridani Way, the way of countless generations husbanding species and planets, they would become incapable of developing solutions of their own. Wind Blossom’s head shook imperceptibly as she recalled her own internal conflicts, how she had determined that the future of Pern could not rest on the shoulders of a few, select bloodlines—the Eridani Way—but on the actions of all Pernese.
Quote:
Wind Blossom was silent for a long while. When she spoke again, her voice was quiet, near a whisper. “In the Eridani Way we are taught that harmony is everything. A good change is invisible, like the wind. It belongs—it seems like an obvious part of the ecosystem.
Quote:
“Your mother was trained by the Eridani,” Sorka said. “You were trained by her, weren’t you?”
Wind Blossom shook her head. “There are some questions I should not answer even for you, Sorka.”
Quote:
Wind Blossom nodded. “Yes, I had wondered about that.”
“And the Eridani?”
“When the Eridani agree to husband a new ecosystem they assign three bloodlines,” Wind Blossom said. “It is a major undertaking. There has only been one time that I know of where the Eridani have been willing to make such an assignment without having thorough knowledge of the ecosystem in question.”
“Here?” Sorka asked.
Wind Blossom nodded.
“Three bloodlines?”
“To avoid mistakes and provide redundancy,” Wind Blossom said
Quote:
. “The Eridani like doing things in threes, don’t they?”
Wind Blossom chuckled. “Yes, they do.”
Can't find the passage where it mentions the three persons/families. Was it your interpretation of one of the quotes above, Joz? Can you provide the quote you are referencing?
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Old Feb 4 2009, 04:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

Anareth: is Todd merely following his mother by Anne-alogy?
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Old Feb 5 2009, 02:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

the bloodlines weren't the families, they were the changes to the ecology. Kitti made one, Ted made a second, Wind Blossom made the third. Thats how I read it at least. Todd making it that Wind Blossom intended her initial result despite the responses she got, and the Author's interpretation in DD. when I read Dragonsblood, and the other Todd stories, there was always a "watchwhers are a noble species" vein to it. In Anne's works, they are glorified watch dogs, in Todd's they are dragons without the bond to a rider.
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Old Feb 5 2009, 04:16 AM   #8
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Copied from Dragonsblood

Quote:
Wind Blossom nodded. “Yes, I had wondered about that.”
“And the Eridani?”
“When the Eridani agree to husband a new ecosystem they assign three bloodlines,” Wind Blossom said. “It is a major undertaking. There has only been one time that I know of where the Eridani have been willing to make such an assignment without having thorough knowledge of the ecosystem in question.”
“Here?” Sorka asked.
Wind Blossom nodded.
“Three bloodlines?”
“To avoid mistakes and provide redundancy,” Wind Blossom said

Can't find the passage where it mentions the three persons/families. Was it your interpretation of one of the quotes above, Joz? Can you provide the quote you are referencing?

It was that one that made me think there were three families assigned. And I got the impression from the beginning that Tieran was obliged to train as a geneticist with Wind Blossom because he was Tubberman's descendant. But reading them all in sequence I can see it was quite a vague reference.

oh well. Least it has cleared some of my confusion up.
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Old Feb 5 2009, 04:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

And sparked in interesting discussion! Thanks Joz
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Old Feb 6 2009, 08:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
And sparked in interesting discussion! Thanks Joz
Och, that it did! Brought a few people out of the woodwork, too. Onwards to the next book!
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Old Feb 8 2009, 05:42 AM   #11
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

She said that the Eradini did things in threes. She DIDN'T , however say all three bloodlines were on the Pern colony. An that , in a way , stands to reason. Perhaps the third person, or second and third familial bloodlines if you count family blood as such, decided they didn't want to leave Federated space.
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Old Feb 8 2009, 08:46 AM   #12
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

I had read it as a 3 pronged attack on thread...Dragons, Watchwhers (apparently not an accident) and grubs.
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Old Feb 9 2009, 10:20 AM   #13
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elvenart View Post
She said that the Eradini did things in threes. She DIDN'T , however say all three bloodlines were on the Pern colony. An that , in a way , stands to reason. Perhaps the third person, or second and third familial bloodlines if you count family blood as such, decided they didn't want to leave Federated space.
In that light the reference to a sister of Wind Blossom staying behind might be interesting and relevant.
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Old Feb 12 2009, 01:51 AM   #14
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

Books not to hand!

Wind Blossom sister was based on a world hit hard by the Nathi something about being there to watch a world's ecosystem.

Also here is twig of related idea here, when 'Telgar' took over the care of the last batch of 6 to live along with the 4 she had from her first try, she created a bloodline of watch whers, which could do many things like eat anything, carry out their weight in what was mined, seeing blind and unsafe areas in bulding along with mapping and garding his youngest. DD CvP:FF. Also the part of maping acording to their handers along with garding the hold and halls I would think in DE/RSR the early book did the watchwher were show just a watch beat at night!

Could Wind Blossom in her own way pass on the care of her creation the watchwhers to someone could care for her creations and be able to use them?

Another idea twigs here! Could there not be understanding and trained folks to understand watchwhers in later Passes?

Also there is a hit in MDLP that they were used as last dich efforts in early holds for Thread, not how it was done?
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Old Dec 29 2013, 05:53 AM   #15
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Unhappy Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

I found this forum in a search that turned up this specific post. (I was looking for general info on the Eridani.)

The methods of the Eridani were employed, but they did not actually authorize the modification. When the colonists approach Kitti Ping in Dragonsdawn, they expect her to refuse using her skills to modify the fire lizards. Her bloodline, including Wind Blossom, Emorra, and Lorana, was the first. She entrusted Ted Tubberman (implied in Dragonsblood by the ease with which he "stole" equipment and the way Wind Blossom took in his grandson), and the dolphins were the third - this is implied when Wind Blossom retrieves the "lost" equipment from them, and the last line quoted by Hans above about the Eridani doing things in threes.
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Old Apr 9 2014, 04:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: Q from Dragonsblood: Eridani Adept families?

I just read "Dragonsblood" for the first time last month, and I got the impression that the three bloodlines that the Eridani Adept Kitti Ping counted on were the recipients of the mentasynth (an Eridani treatment) that boosted an animal's intelligence to that of a human compatible level.

Kitti Ping was to be an observer/caretaker of the dolphin's integration into Pern's ecology, for what she hoped would be several decades, as that is fitting for the human scale, although she had always planned that her daughter Wind Blossom would take over for her.

Wind Blossom never fully understood the Eridani methods, as she was never taught directly by that race, thus, her mother's impression that she was always a disappointment to her. Kitti Ping could not, as much as she thought she was capable of doing, teach her daughter what the Eridani taught her.

However, since technology on Pern was assured to last for several decades or even centuries if care was taken with them (the colonists never counted on Thread, and thus causing a regretful regression of technology), Kitti Ping thought to place her daughter in her place when she eventually died.

The concept that with vanishing technology on a planet that could no longer support it, may have been forseen by the Eridani, at least Wind Blossom realized it in "Dragonsblood", and thought to not teach her own daughter or apprentices a full course in genetics, but just the basics in PNA to overcome the foremost hurdles of natural PNA mutations in later generations of the dragons, and come up with a simple solution that a technological bereft future generation could use successfully.

The dolphins that volunteered to help the humans colonize Pern also volunteered to take the mentasynth treatment, so that makes them the first 'bloodline'. This bloodline could have been set in place by the Eridani themselves, or their human Adepts, knowing full well that an Adept would be most beneficial to the colonization of Pern.

Kitti Ping's second bloodline was the genetic engineering of the dragons. This was a rush-job, and Kitti was not completely sure of their success, but as she was the only human on Pern trained directly by the Eridani, her knowledge would have to be passed on to her daughter, so she could carry on the role of caretaker, not only for the as-yet-to-be-hatched dragons, but for the dolphins too.

Wind Blossom's genetic engineering of the whers would be the third, and was generally considered a mistake by all concerned, and was probably a source of shame for Wind Blossom, or so I thought so after reading Dragonsdawn. After reading Dragonsblood, I came away with that throughout the shame, Wind Blossom also carried her responsibility of caretaker for the dolphins, dragons and whers to her grave.

Who, after Wind Blossom's daughter & Tubberman's grandson (I forget their names), would then be the watchers of Pern's genetically manipulated life-forms? Was Lorana a descendant of Wind Blossom? I haven't read "Dragonheart" or "Dragongirl", the sequels to "Dragonsblood", so I might have missed a lot! That would explain a lot about why the Ruathan bloodlines (human) are so important, and integrated with the dragons.

Ted Tubberman's meddling with genetics resulted in a deviation from Eridani concepts that resulted in the mentasynthed cheetahs; and otherwise known as 'sport-cats' and 'mreows'.
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