A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum  

Go Back   A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum > The Anne McCaffrey Collection > Talent: Pegasus, Tower & Hive, and Barque Cats

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Sep 19 2007, 02:48 PM   #1
D. M. Domini
Talent
Finder
 
D. M. Domini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon, and Robinton!
Now Reading: Sabriel by Garth Nix
Default Random Talent musings

Working on Talent fanfic makes me rehash all the little questions. I've had a few, and I figure rather than spamming the board with separate topics, maybe I should put them in their own!

One thought I've had floating in my mind...was Afra based on Data from Star Trek? What was the date A Meeting of Minds was published? And was it before or after ST:TNG?

The reason I ask is because there's a lot of similarities. The names...Data, Afra - four letters long, heavy on the a. Both portrayed as unemotional (for differing reasons). Both have yellow eyes. Both portrayed as generally good guys (once Data starts to experience emotions and has the concept of being a good guy). Both are polite to a fault. Both have greenish/yellow skin (although I consider those lines about Afra having yellow skin something an editor missed, and probably being changed from yellow to green due to reasons of the political correct variety, Data does have greenish/yellow skin.) I've also always pictured Towers in my head as having a rather Trek-like aesthetic.

Although, ironically, I read AMC before I ever watched much ST:TNG...I didn't have a TV growing up. So I thought Data was like *Afra* in some ways.

I had another thought, but it's escaped me. I'll put it in this thread when it comes back.

I may picspam this thread later on because I just discovered The Sims 2 and they conveniently have aliens with green skin, and I've been installing various stuff to try to get little Talented families set up, lol, stripes in their hair and all. (Anyone know of any good stripy hair? Larak currently has a raver look going with multiple white stripes, and Damia's dyed her stripes blond.)

Oh wait...related to the Sims 2...Jeff Raven is described in the books as being rather homely with strong features. In fact, he's described as looking a lot as my mental picture of F'lar looks, minus the long hair, yellow eyes, and more grouchy nature. Am I making this up? Because my Sims 2 sim for Jeff isn't particularly pretty.

Oh, also related to the Sims 2...the Rowan is more attracted to Afra than she is to her own husband. Go figure! She keeps getting jealous of Damia. It's funny to watch her throw a tantrum.
D. M. Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 19 2007, 03:46 PM   #2
Cheryl
Master Archivist
 
Cheryl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Maryland, USA
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern!
Now Reading: Paladin of Souls (Bujold)
Default Re: Random Talent musings

"A Meeting of Minds" was published in Jan 1969, well before ST:TNG.
__________________
Visit one of the other sites of Cheryl's Anne McCaffrey Triad:
Sariel's Guide to Pern: a detailed guide to the series
The Many Works of Anne McCaffrey: largest fan site about Anne and ALL of her works
McCaffrey Quest: annual trivia contest.
Cheryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 19 2007, 04:39 PM   #3
D. M. Domini
Talent
Finder
 
D. M. Domini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon, and Robinton!
Now Reading: Sabriel by Garth Nix
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Ah, thanks for that. Coincidence, then!
D. M. Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20 2007, 04:12 PM   #4
Greenrider Tresa
The Contrary
Planetary Brain
 
Greenrider Tresa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Gender: F
Fan of: The Ship Who Searched
Now Reading: The Calhoun Collection, Nora Roberts
Default Re: Random Talent musings

And if Bradbury was writing even earlier, Afra's not even the first golden-eyed character! "Dark They Were, and Golden Eyed'. Short story.
__________________
Thinking, understanding, reasoning, willing, call not these
Soul! They are its actions, but they are not its essence.

Akhenaton? (c. B.C. 1375)
Egyptian King and Monotheist


Greenrider Tresa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20 2007, 04:46 PM   #5
D. M. Domini
Talent
Finder
 
D. M. Domini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon, and Robinton!
Now Reading: Sabriel by Garth Nix
Default Re: Random Talent musings

It wasn't the yellow-eyed thing alone that made me curious, but the multiple similarities. Perhaps Trek swiped from AMC instead. Or perhaps it's just a coincidence!

What about Jeff? Does anyone else have a mental picture of him that looks an awful lot like F'lar?
D. M. Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20 2007, 05:06 PM   #6
granath
Talent
Tower Prime
 
granath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Proud Mom!
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon
Now Reading: Faye Upton: Dragonchoice 3
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Yeah, although it's more his manner than his looks. He's the same sort of archetype, the strong man who tames a temperamental woman. Another such is Lars Dahl in the Crystal Singer books. There are quite close similarities between the Rowan and Lessa too, both are petite, skinny almost to the point of emaciation, etc. Killashandra is taller, but she's skinny thanks to the spore, and she also has the same arrogance. Even if her childhood was probably happy compared to the Rowan, not to mention Lessa.

Afra also reminds me a lot of F'nor, a calm, confident man who's happy to stand in another's shadow. The dynamic between Jeff and Afra in early Damia is very similar to that between F'lar and F'nor.
__________________
Decaf coffee is an oxymoron. Instant coffee is an abomination. Give me the real thing and nobody gets hurt.
"Do. Or do not. There is no try" -- Yoda
VP of the Afra Lyon fan club!
granath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20 2007, 05:30 PM   #7
D. M. Domini
Talent
Finder
 
D. M. Domini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon, and Robinton!
Now Reading: Sabriel by Garth Nix
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Yeah, I've noticed the personality similarities of the double-trinity thing--Lars/Killashandra, Jeff/Rowan, F'lar/Lessa, but the physical similarities between Jeff/F'lar surprised me, given I think Lars looks nothing like them (more of a Sebell-type physically).

Re: the second-in-commands thing...I think Trag from the Crystal Singer books is a heavier echo of Afra than F'nor is. We just see far less of Trag than either Afra or F'nor.
D. M. Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20 2007, 06:10 PM   #8
Maximillian
Talent
 
Maximillian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Gender: M
Fan of: The Talent Series
Now Reading: The Mars Series by Kim Stanley Robinson
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Portalvast Magus View Post
It wasn't the yellow-eyed thing alone that made me curious, but the multiple similarities. Perhaps Trek swiped from AMC instead. Or perhaps it's just a coincidence!

What about Jeff? Does anyone else have a mental picture of him that looks an awful lot like F'lar?
I'm not quite sure who F'lar is as I have not read much of Anne's other works, but indeed I do have a mental picture of Jeff. His looks are by no means conventionally "handsome" but you must also allow for a difference in perception. What is handsome to some would be "blah" to others. Jeff Raven is very "home grown" in both bearing and stature, but by no means "homely". I hope I can convey that when I do his render.

Afra is quite a unique and interesting character indeed. I'm sure you aren't the first person to make the comparison between Data and Afra. The two are light years apart however and share only superficial qualities that might seem similar at first.

Data however is more analogous to Spock than to Afra
Both of them had difficulties responding to human quirks and emotional displays. The difference being of course, that Spock disengaged himself from human emotions whereas Data wanted to become more human, (which in and of itself is a kind of emotion).

Afra on the other hand was raised in a Methody upbringing by his parents. He was by nature inquisitive and emotionally reactive to things that his parents just couldn't understand. Afra's internal need for rebellion leads me to believe that at least one of the parents may have had a hidden rebellious streak as well.

I wish we knew more about the Method indoctrination that seems to be the standard on Capella. Perhaps that is something you could touch on in one of your fan fics


Analytically yours,

MMV
Maximillian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20 2007, 07:06 PM   #9
D. M. Domini
Talent
Finder
 
D. M. Domini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon, and Robinton!
Now Reading: Sabriel by Garth Nix
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
I'm not quite sure who F'lar is
::boggle::

Sorry, I'm used to the Pern peeps not necessarily knowing anything about the Talents (heathens!) but the reverse surprised me. F'lar is Lessa's love interest in the first-written Dragonriders of Pern book, Dragonflight.

Quote:
His looks are by no means conventionally "handsome" but you must also allow for a difference in perception. What is handsome to some would be "blah" to others. Jeff Raven is very "home grown" in both bearing and stature, but by no means "homely". I hope I can convey that when I do his render.
I agree that he's not ugly, and probably has a type of face that really flips the switch for a certain type of person. (For example, I almost universally find faces that look like Robert Patrick to be attractive. Why? Don't have the foggiest, certainly not your typical "handsome" face...maybe I watched Terminator 2 at a very impressionable age, but I totally crushed on a teacher that resembled him, and have caught myself staring at a stockboy at a grocery store, and a train conductor who has physical similarities.)

Quote:
Data however is more analogous to Spock than to Afra
Both of them had difficulties responding to human quirks and emotional displays. The difference being of course, that Spock disengaged himself from human emotions whereas Data wanted to become more human, (which in and of itself is a kind of emotion).
True.

Quote:
Afra on the other hand was raised in a Methody upbringing by his parents. He was by nature inquisitive and emotionally reactive to things that his parents just couldn't understand. Afra's internal need for rebellion leads me to believe that at least one of the parents may have had a hidden rebellious streak as well.
Which one?

Quote:
I wish we knew more about the Method indoctrination that seems to be the standard on Capella. Perhaps that is something you could touch on in one of your fan fics
Yeah, I hope to. "Methody" makes you think "Methodist" at first, but really there's strong Japanese cultural traits in there as well, despite the man of Japanese decent that Afra met having a boisterous crew. So I think it's a melting pot of conservative cultures that formed the planet's cheif tone.
D. M. Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2007, 01:47 AM   #10
granath
Talent
Tower Prime
 
granath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Proud Mom!
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon
Now Reading: Faye Upton: Dragonchoice 3
Default Re: Random Talent musings

The Method sounds like some aspects of the Mormon church to me, even though admittedly I don't have much experience with it. Although the same could probably be said for any fundamentalist Christian (and possibly Muslim, apart from the lack of overt gender discrimination on Capella) denomination.
__________________
Decaf coffee is an oxymoron. Instant coffee is an abomination. Give me the real thing and nobody gets hurt.
"Do. Or do not. There is no try" -- Yoda
VP of the Afra Lyon fan club!
granath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2007, 03:06 PM   #11
D. M. Domini
Talent
Finder
 
D. M. Domini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon, and Robinton!
Now Reading: Sabriel by Garth Nix
Default Re: Random Talent musings

More musings...

David and Capella. What planets do you think they originated on? I know Siglen trained them, but if David, Capella, AND the Rowan all came from Altair I'd be surprised given Altair was so happy having produced the Rowan "natively".

I would be less surprised if they came from Earth, and Siglen trained them before she herself took the Altair Tower. I could see all three having the teleportation issue in a short time (Siglen first as she left for Altair, and then Capella because she's the one who experienced all that "birth trauma" and was probably thinking too hard about Siglen's experience, and then David whose nerve got knocked lose by seeing TWO of his fellow Primes experience this horrible breakdown during inter-planetary teleportation...all fueled by a cocktail of drugs un-needed in two of their cases) as causing the now-proved incorrect idea that Primes can't teleport to another planet. Reidinger, seeing THREE of his fellow Primes affected by this, would have logically carried on the tradition. Once is an isolated happening. Twice is coincidence. Three is a trend.

I guess I'm leaning towards David and Capella both being from Earth. Actually I think Reidinger, Siglen, Guzman, David, and Capella all originated on Earth. Capella probably picked up the worse aspects of Prime-in-her-Tower syndrome from Siglen. Didn't Siglen reduce her name to just Siglen much like Capella named herself after her planet? Hello ego! (the Rowan came by it naturally, at least)

I'm also thinking Capella Prime before Capella probably was produced natively, and possibly trained on-planet like the Rowan rather than being sent to Earth. That would put the FT&T several generations in without observing a Prime who had traveled from planet to planet. If you combine that with the theory of the the curve--early Primes weren't Primes so much as what is modernly called a T-2 or T-3 (Granath's idea, I think, but a good one), they could hand-wave earlier "Primes" traveling as not actually being Primes in the modern sense.

I think before the Gwen-Raven explosion (later, the Raven-Lyon explosion) all Towers but Earth periodically had no Prime. When extra Primes were available, Altair and Capella and Vega got them as the oldest colonies. Then...er...Beetlejuice, because I'm not up to figuring out the right spelling. Where David is. Callisto was a true indulgence; a needed one, but given she's not stationed on a planet there was probably no planet that needed her more than Earth now that the major colonies were covered by Primes. Which is why Jeff could get away with making Jeran Deneb Prime when Deneb wasn't due a Tower.

And Altair having no Prime but a pair of T-2s after Siglen marks that as an acceptable compromise, although in this case I think Jeff let it be because by the time his children grew up, the T-2s had been there so long there was really no reason to move them as Altair was already set up for a pair of T-2s to do everything.

I guess those are my wildly speculated thoughts...your thoughts on the speculation?
D. M. Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2007, 03:13 PM   #12
D. M. Domini
Talent
Finder
 
D. M. Domini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon, and Robinton!
Now Reading: Sabriel by Garth Nix
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Quote:
Originally Posted by granath View Post
The Method sounds like some aspects of the Mormon church to me, even though admittedly I don't have much experience with it. Although the same could probably be said for any fundamentalist Christian (and possibly Muslim, apart from the lack of overt gender discrimination on Capella) denomination.
I think, much like is happening now, the Muslim religions probably would have had the gender inequality thing totally squeezed out of them by the time the modern Talent series rolled around. Changes just to be able to compete in a modern world. I guess westernized, at least on that one topic, like our modern world is trying to do today. So I could see the Muslim faith as probably having contributed to the Method, along with various forms of various Eastern religions that hold family honor in high regard.
D. M. Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 26 2007, 02:19 PM   #13
D. M. Domini
Talent
Finder
 
D. M. Domini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon, and Robinton!
Now Reading: Sabriel by Garth Nix
Default Re: Random Talent musings

No thoughts on the pre-Rowan Primes' homeworlds? I know it's just rampant speculation...
D. M. Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 26 2007, 03:11 PM   #14
granath
Talent
Tower Prime
 
granath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Proud Mom!
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon
Now Reading: Faye Upton: Dragonchoice 3
Default Re: Random Talent musings

We know too little, but apparently they didn't have trouble traveling until Siglen educated the new crop.
__________________
Decaf coffee is an oxymoron. Instant coffee is an abomination. Give me the real thing and nobody gets hurt.
"Do. Or do not. There is no try" -- Yoda
VP of the Afra Lyon fan club!
granath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27 2007, 12:41 PM   #15
Maximillian
Talent
 
Maximillian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Gender: M
Fan of: The Talent Series
Now Reading: The Mars Series by Kim Stanley Robinson
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Quote:
Originally Posted by granath View Post
We know too little, but apparently they didn't have trouble traveling until Siglen educated the new crop.
Indeed there is little information provided about pre-Rowan times, however by extrapolation we must assume that there was very little Prime travel during those times because there were few colonies that were due a prime tower....as well as the fact that there were fewer prime potentials being produced. Most of the traffic would have been handled directly by Earth Prime and his/her support staff. Remote receiving would have been handled by multiple T2s to T4s in lieu of a Prime for that planet or port.

Capella was most definitely homegrown, however she did go to Earth for training, this of course was her undoing.

I don't know much about David however we must assume that he was trained along side or at least in relative time to Capella.

Guzman however should have been used to train some of these younglings, but I'm betting that due to his particularly anti-social people skills that wasn't practical. This brings us to Siglen, who isn't exactly a social butterfly herself, however, her pure ability and skill gave her the credentials and rapport to be able to teach.....it is unfortunate that she didn't realise her particular inner ear condition, if she had she could have avoided so much anguish as well as not having passed it down to her charges.

I think that most people when reading about Siglen highly underestimate her power. Keep in mind, she was second only to Reidinger in level of power and ability. This should speak volumes. Which is also why she was assigned to Altair, the distance would require her special skill.

I do think there is a lot in Siglen's past that would explain much about her modern day character. I am sure that she was not always sedentary and that at some point there was someone in her life. My thoughts are that she lost someone so dear to her that she simply shut herself down emotionally, or at least romantically. This is why she appears to be so utterly callous at times. After a while I'm sure she was even able to fool herself into thinking it was by choice and that she was happy that way. Self delusion is quite a powerful tool for those who wish to protect themselves from harsh memories of the past.

I could go on and on about these musings, but I fear this post is already too voluminous as it is.

Let me hear your thoughts. (Your public ones anyway, you know I'd never peak, that would be rude.)

Telepathically yours,

Maximillian
Maximillian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27 2007, 03:08 PM   #16
granath
Talent
Tower Prime
 
granath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Proud Mom!
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon
Now Reading: Faye Upton: Dragonchoice 3
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Didn't Lusena or someone encourage the Rowan to contact David and Capella because both had trained with Siglen?
__________________
Decaf coffee is an oxymoron. Instant coffee is an abomination. Give me the real thing and nobody gets hurt.
"Do. Or do not. There is no try" -- Yoda
VP of the Afra Lyon fan club!
granath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 27 2007, 03:23 PM   #17
Maximillian
Talent
 
Maximillian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Gender: M
Fan of: The Talent Series
Now Reading: The Mars Series by Kim Stanley Robinson
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Quote:
Originally Posted by granath View Post
Didn't Lusena or someone encourage the Rowan to contact David and Capella because both had trained with Siglen?
Yes that is correct, David and Capella did train under Siglen.
Maximillian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 14 2008, 05:15 AM   #18
proserpine
Member
Soul-Eaters
 
proserpine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minnesota
Gender: F
Fan of: Moreta
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
I do think there is a lot in Siglen's past that would explain much about her modern day character. I am sure that she was not always sedentary and that at some point there was someone in her life. My thoughts are that she lost someone so dear to her that she simply shut herself down emotionally, or at least romantically. This is why she appears to be so utterly callous at times. After a while I'm sure she was even able to fool herself into thinking it was by choice and that she was happy that way. Self delusion is quite a powerful tool for those who wish to protect themselves from harsh memories of the past.
AAAAANNNNDDDD sometimes people just suck. Siglen might have always been sedentary, because she could rely on her Talent to get a job and be considered important, and also use it in lieu of physically attaining things herself. And because she was overweight, she could have always had a poor body image, which in turn made her relate poorly to those around her because she took out her self loathing on other people. She doesn't have to have a mysterious and/or tragic past to make her an unpleasant person. All she needs is an unpleasant personality.

As for home worlds, I think all the old primes probably were born AND also trained on Earth, and then transported out to their various colonies. After all, if Guzman and Siglen trained together, then he might also have the Prime travel difficulties. If David and Capella had to travel to a different planet to train up their Prime abilities, then they would have already shown that Primes don't necessarily have difficulty traveling, since they would have made it to Altair just fine. If Siglen was still on Earth to train them when they emerged from Earth's population, then all three would have difficulties. We don't know when the other Prime towers were established, after all, but we do know that all five of the older generation of Primes were pretty well established before the Rowan emerged. We don't, however, know how long the un-plot-related colonies have been around, though, which gives rise to the question: How many Primes have there actually been in the Talentverse? Altair had been established for only 100 years when the Rowan was born, and the other colonies are only a 150 to 200 years old on the outside*. That would mean that each of the four colonial Primes would quite likely be the FIRST Prime to ever run that tower, Primes being as rare as they are before the Raven/Lyon Explosion (I like that phrase). Given the young age of all the colonies, they are also quite likely the only Primes ever to have been stationed off Earth, barring natively produced Prime-level Talent that never leaves the home planet, which could also explain Guzman of Procyon.

Methody upbringing seems to have flavors of all the tight restrictions on behavior of any fundamentalist religion, be it Christian, Muslim, or whatever, might have. It's got the "speak when spoken to" vibe, the conformism necessity and even some hints of possible commune behavior. Maybe they're Talented versions of Hutterites or something.

*Damia's Children is placed in the 24th century, but doesn't specify early or late, so the Rowan could have been easily set in the late 23th century. Peter Reidinger the First didn't begin sending colonists out until at least the latter half of the 21st, if not early in the 22nd, so the oldest any colony could be is 200-300 years old at the beginning of the Rowan.
proserpine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 14 2008, 12:28 PM   #19
D. M. Domini
Talent
Finder
 
D. M. Domini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon, and Robinton!
Now Reading: Sabriel by Garth Nix
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Welcome proserpine! Nice to see another Talent fan around!

To touch on some of your points...

It's true, perhaps Siglen is just an unhappy person. But that doesn't do much for a plot.

I've estimated The Rowan and later to happen approximately 300 years, give or take, after Pegasus in Space.

Re: Prime homeworlds...well, you support my own thoughts, although I'm not convinced that Capella hasn't had at least one Prime before the current one. Although probably home-grown. So I'm not going to argue.

I noticed, I think in Damia's Children, that Thian said something about there being 100 Primes in his time. Which really, really surprised me. It's possible I'm remembering it wrong...as usual, I don't have the books in front of me, so I don't have the exact quote. As I recall, he said something about a conference with 100 Primes. It was very much in passing, and I was pretty much like, "WTF? How?!"

In the Rowan's time, there are only a handful of known Primes alive...Peter Reidinger IV, The Rowan, Jeff Raven, David, Capella, Siglen, and Guzman. Only seven. You could possibly include Isthia; I personally think she is a Prime, just untrained.

After Jeff and Rowan spawn :: you add Jeran, Cera, and Damia. The kid after Larak, Ezra or Ezro, is supposedly a Prime in later books, I think of Vega, but when he was first mentioned if I recall properly, he was not a Prime, so I don't consider him to be a Prime. So we have about 10 acting Primes then, ignoring Isthia because she's not acting as Prime anywhere.

I find it a VERY big jump to get to 100 as of Thian's time, especially considering his generation hasn't quite started to spawn themselves...except perhaps for Laria. And for all we know her kid's not Talented. When Guzman and Reidinger and Siglen died, we went back down to 7. Add Damia and Afra's 8 and you have 15, and none of the other Prime families have been as prolific as that pair...the few families that have that we know of have been on Deneb, but I get the impression the fact that all 8 of Afra and Damia's children are Primes is rare. I'd say, tops, 30 to 40 Tower-type Primes are alive as of The Tower and the Hive. If 16 or slightly more are all Gwyn/Raven/Lyons, that's still a significant enough chunk to get people upset w/ the Talent nepotism, particularly since most of them are now "old guard" and thus have seniority to place their children here or there.
D. M. Domini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 14 2008, 11:29 PM   #20
proserpine
Member
Soul-Eaters
 
proserpine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minnesota
Gender: F
Fan of: Moreta
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Regarding Ezro, in the original short story, "A Meeting of Minds," which is basically the chapter in Damia where she meets Sodan, destroys him and then shacks up with Afra, in the fourth paragraph it states, to paraphrase, that Jeran, Cera and Ezro are ALL Prime talents. In the novelized version, it simply states that Larak is the only T-3, with the implication that Cera and Ezro are also Primes. However in the later novels Cera is downgraded to a T-2, and Ezro to a T-3, so I guess you can take your pick as to what Talent grade he is. It is entirely possible that he is, in fact, a Prime talent in an area that FT&T doesn't hire for, like precognition or finding or something, but only T-3 in pathing and porting, the two areas that any Tower Talent would need. But that's for fanfic to explore, I guess
proserpine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15 2008, 03:09 AM   #21
granath
Talent
Tower Prime
 
granath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Proud Mom!
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon
Now Reading: Faye Upton: Dragonchoice 3
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Well, if there's just two or three more families reproducing almost like the Gwyn-Raven-Lyons you'd get 100 Primes, although not all of working age (16+ with Talents).
__________________
Decaf coffee is an oxymoron. Instant coffee is an abomination. Give me the real thing and nobody gets hurt.
"Do. Or do not. There is no try" -- Yoda
VP of the Afra Lyon fan club!
granath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 20 2008, 07:43 PM   #22
proserpine
Member
Soul-Eaters
 
proserpine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minnesota
Gender: F
Fan of: Moreta
Default Re: Random Talent musings

Hmm, after Damia there's no mention of Ezro at all in Damia's Children, but in Lyon's Pride he's part of a merge of all system Towers to port the Washington and fleet into position, a merge in which only the focus minds were identifiable, indicating that he is indeed Prime (of Vega) and then in the Tower and the Hive it states that Ezro is a T-3 physician and that Larak was a T-2 (Ace paper back editions, LP 211, T&H 21). So . . . Larak aparently gains a grade in the 26 years after he dies, while Ezro looses a couple. Or it could be the 7 years between the publication of Lyon's Pride and the Tower and the Hive which introduces the inconsistencies in this case.

To be honest, I don't much like the latter three books of the series, for a variety of reasons. For one, Damia's Children feels really stiff because it tries to cover too many characters. By splitting the focus of the novel four ways between the four oldest Lyons, none of the characters gain much depth. In Lyon's Pride Rojer gets a great chance to have some really good characterization when his Mrdinis get killed, and then all that character arch is completely thrown away because they get resurrected. Rojer's the only Lyon child who gains any depth in the third and fourth books, and it all gets thrown away for no real reason. Why ARE the 'dini's brought back? It's not like they contributed anything to the plot: as Magus points out in another thread, none of the 'dinis except maybe PRTGLM, the one who kills Gil and Kat, have any real distinguishing characteristics, and the 'dinis as a whole are not a particularly well thought out species. They also get very little screen time, as it were, and when the kids' dinis do, they're usually acting more like servants than partners, with no independence at all. The Mrdinis are not well created aliens.

And then there's the somewhat randomly added protest groups against the Washington and anger against the FT&T for its nepotism and such, (and of course they're all wrong because they dare to disagree with the protagonists) as well as the idea that women must breed as much as possible as illustrated by the large numbers of children all the Talents in the book end up having, including Laria and Kinkaid getting together because their 'dinis made them. This in itself is rather irritating, as it suggests that a woman can only feel fulfilled if she's popped out a few brats in her lifetime. When taken with the rest of McCaffrey's body of work, which especially in the later novels heavily leans on this theme, it almost becomes offensive to those of us women who would rather not force the idea that a woman can only feel fulfilled in this way.

The last three books in the series almost implode because they try to do too much at once, and are unsatisfying to me because they never pause to develop any character thoroughly, or when they do, the most interesting character in the three is undermined not fifty pages later by the unfortunate reintroduction of unneeded characters. I don't enjoy them.

I like Damia though. So that's something, I guess.
proserpine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21 2008, 03:30 AM   #23
P'ter
Crafter

Craftmaster
 
P'ter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wolverhampton
Gender: M
Fan of: Favorite?
Now Reading: avidly
Default Re: Random Talent musings

I don't know why but I've just realised that my mental picture of Jeff is very much Dad from The Waltons!
__________________
"Truth is stranger than fiction: fiction has to make sense." Leo Rosten.

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
C. S. Lewis

"I find television very educational. Whenever somebody switches it on I go in the other room and read a book." (attributed to Groucho Marx)

The Pedants are revolting! (against bad grammar)
P'ter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Boxed: A Story of Talent (Talent fic) D. M. Domini Exhibit Hall 9 Jun 19 2009 02:28 AM
Fic: And Then There Was One (Talent Universe) D. M. Domini Exhibit Hall 1 Dec 19 2007 10:52 AM
Random Stuff & Nonsense Emma-Jayde Exhibit Hall 17 Nov 27 2006 03:21 AM
Talent Book and Short Story List Cheryl Talent: Pegasus, Tower & Hive, and Barque Cats 0 Nov 26 2004 08:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

A Meeting of Minds forum owned by Cheryl B. Miller.
All references to worlds and characters based on Anne McCaffrey’s fiction are copyright © Anne McCaffrey 1967-2008, all rights reserved, and used by permission of the author.