Pernese versus Terran terms

[Hans]

Don't think it exists, Cheryl. Isn't it a brand name the Coca Cola company is using for their Fanta type lemonade with grapefruit in it? Never even thought it could be a real fruit

[Brenda]

Citrus maxima, obviously!

[monkeysrule]

Originally Posted by Cheryl

Hmm, and here I've always thought tangerines were a hybrid of oranges. But what the heck is a pomelo?

It's like an orange, but more pear-shaped. They're hard to peel, but really good.

[Rinoa]

Originally Posted by Cheryl

Hmm, and here I've always thought tangerines were a hybrid of oranges. But what the heck is a pomelo?

I found this at www.dictionary.com

Originally Posted by www.dictionary.com

shad·dock ( P ) Pronunciation Key (shdk)
n. In both senses also called pomelo, pompelmous, pumelo.
A tropical southeast Asian tree (Citrus maxima) closely related to the grapefruit and having very large round fruit with thick rinds and coarse-grained pulp.
The edible yellow fruit of the shaddock.

So, monkeysrule, do they taste more like an orange or a grapefruit (or neither)?

Rinoa

[Hans]

Right, back on topic please, boys and girls?

Feel free to start a thread in the cafe should you feel like it!

[ChrisG]

Awright, here're a couple more for your consideration:

Black rock – Coal
Sleeping furs – Blankets

Black rock is featured quite frequently in The Smallest Dragonboy, however in other books there's still mention of coal:

From DragonQuest
Fortunately the nighthearth, nearest the entrance, was operating for normal use, the huge klah pot and stew kettle swinging from their hooks, keeping warm over the coals.

as well as something called 'Cromcoal', also in DQ:

"That means the hardwood sands are safe." Asgenar's relief was so great that he took a swig on the bottle himself. Then hastily offered it to the dragonrider. When F'lar politely refused, he went on, "We may have another hard winter and my people will need that wood. Cromcoal costs!"
F'lar nodded. Free provision of fuelwood meant a tremendous saving to the average holder, though not every Lord saw it in this aspect. Lord Meron of Nabol Hold, for instance, refused to let his commoners chop fuelwood, forcing them to pay the high rates for Cromcoal, increasing his profit at their expense.

Perhaps 'Cromcoal' is just a brand name.

As for the furs, there's never any mention of where all of these sleeping furs come from. I've come across descriptions such as 'light', 'dark', and 'silky'. In SoP there's quite a bit of skinning of big felines on the southern continent, but I doubt that's where all of the sleeping furs come from. I've never heard of using cattle for furs … if cattle are indeed herdbeasts. Bison, however, do produce quite valuable furs. Or perhaps sleeping furs are any type of heavy blanket.

[Hans]

Thank you, Chris! Would you believe I thought those two were already in there? Two, excellent additions that deserve their place in the list without a doubt

The one provision is that while sleeping furs means "bedding" rather than pure blankets because real blankets could very well exist, too!

About Cromcoal, I thought it was the same as the generic blackrock but we could argue that, especially later in time, when the geological maps were found, it might have devolved into a brand name... although I'll list it with the blackrock entry.

[Brenda]

Fortunately the nighthearth, nearest the entrance, was operating for normal use, the huge klah pot and stew kettle swinging from their hooks, keeping warm over the coals.

That use of the word "coal" does not require that the fuel be coal. You can have a wood fire die down to glowing coals.

[ChrisG]

Howabout joint-ail equals arthritis?

[edith]

or rheumatism, or lots of things- it's a bit of an encompassing term.

[Hans]

I think I agree with Edith. Could even be sort of MS, couldn't it? Too many additional meanings to simply say that it's arthritis.

[Kath]

Originally Posted by Hans

I think I agree with Edith. Could even be sort of MS, couldn't it? Too many additional meanings to simply say that it's arthritis.

I dunno. From the context, I think it seems very likely to be a degenerative, age-linked ailment, which would make arthritis (rheumatoid or otherwise) the prime candidate. But, like you say Hans, there isn't any rock-solid evidence.

[edith]

there're lots of degenerative muscle things.

[ChrisG]

Rheumatoid arthritis: noun - : inflammation of joints due to infectious, metabolic, or constitutional causes; also : a specific arthritic condition

Sure sounds like joint-ail to me, but no matter; I've got another one for you to shoot down:

Milkmother - Wet nurse

[edith]

I agree with that one!

[annachie]

Originally Posted by Hans

I think I agree with Edith. Could even be sort of MS, couldn't it? Too many additional meanings to simply say that it's arthritis.

From the description it's an arthritis. Joints swelling, and I believe in Dragonsong it mentions the odd shaped knuckles you quite often see. Then there's the harpers retiring to the equatorial regions to ease their joint-ail, which again sounds more like an arthritis.

Sevenday: Victorian English, or perhaps older. Pride and Prejudice for example uses the phrase.

Greens. Salad greens, but your more La-de-dah type. Water cress being a good example of a specific one. But things from the parsley family, or baby spinach leaves come to mine.

[annachie]

Hmm, Hold seem more analogous with community whether that is a village, city or farmlet.
Beast Hold would be a hold devoted to raising livestock.
Sea Hold to fishing in the sea.
Hold generic, usually land farming but can include some beast stock. Can also be a major urban center.


Some locations seems to have two or even 3 different types of holds there, all answering to the main holder. Fort, Ruatha, and Paradise River all come to mind.

Also it seems that some Crafthalls are their own holds as well. Smithcraft and minercraft halls come to mind.

[Hans]

Annachie, with all due respect; we're not looking for descriptions but for synonyms, equivalents.

Hold will never have an exact Terran equivalent as it can mean too many things, especially if a descriptive element/word is added.

Things like greens would be called greens everywhere I think?

It needs to be as good as certain that term A on Pern means the what we call B.

[Bookworm]

Originally Posted by Hans

What do others think of "underpants", is it Pernese? Is it used in modern day English? It is the litteral translation of a man's underwear in Dutch
I'll wait adding this one, the other one I judge to be Pernese although it has been used on Earth, too. But that was long ago.

Originally Posted by Silvina in DragonSinger

Dunca was quite incensed that you'd no underthings at all.

Also, I recall seeing mention of small clothes referring to under garments but haven't located the passage yet.

[Bookworm]

Originally Posted by Hans

Shalyn, they might well have had soap (don't know from the top of my head) but, not to diminish your contribution, this thread is for synonyms, pernese terms and their terran equivalents.

Having said that your question intrigues me, so I'll probably investigate

Originally Posted by DLG - cleanliness

On Pern, soap made of lye and fat is a very rare item. Instead the Pernese rely on fuller's earth, lanolin, saponin root, oils, and sweetsand.
Sweetsand, a naturally foaming fine sand, can get out the stench of firestone and works also on any other strong smell or heavy soil. Everyone bathes with it.

Searches on Wikipedia and Google only turn up a reference to Sweetsand Verbena, an edible plant.

[Bookworm]

Originally Posted by Brenda

Redfruits always sound way too juicy to be apples - and they have red juice, which stains Menolly's tunic in DSi. They are described as "oddly-shaped" when they are being passed around the table. I always picture something like a mango.

I always pictured Blood Oranges for Redfruits. And in DD there is specific reference to both orange fruit and red fruit as two different things. DSi does mention it as being curiously shaped and states that Menolly took hers and ate it quickly, getting as much of the sweet, tangy juice as possible. Blood oranges are often described as having a slightly berry/orange cross taste to them.

So, in the end I'm not sure if my argument is for or against blood oranges being red fruit. DSi doesn't mention anything about peeling, tho that could have been done prior to serving the and sections placed into serving bowls. That may account for the curious shape.

/em just thinking aloud as she goes

[Bookworm]

Okay... I probably should have put this all into one reply, but I kind of tried to go in order. And these, I think, are new to this thread:

turnover/years end = New Years
gather = county/town Fair
spiderclaws = small crabs or rock fish
gossamer spinners = spiders

I hope these help

[granath]

For some reason I always think of pomegranates when I hear about redfruit...

[ChrisG]

From All the Weyrs of Pern
“He manipulates them like so many string-dolls,” Menolly told her mate in an undertone after he had escorted the Lord Holders into the hallway.

String-doll = Marionette

[Cheryl]

Oooh, good find Chris!

[Hans]

Good find indeed, Chris. Sorry it took me some time to react (was on holiday) - I'll add it right away

[Oldwolf]

American knicker is a contraction of knickerbocker

Its also used often by Arthur Ransome in the Swallow and Amazon books to refer to trousers , Roger Walker was well known in Swallowdale for using the "knickerbocker braker" as often as possible

Nick

I think a dolphineer would be more akin to a modern oceanographer/rescue diver/fisheries biologist, as the dolphins are their partners, not their subjects. And modern dolphin trainers generaly deal more with behavioral science than marine biology.

[Hans]

Dolphineer, though I agree with you, I dont think there is an exact Terran equivalent of a Pernese dolphineer; so I won't be adding your suggestion to the list.

What we are looking for here are different names for the same "thing", not explanations or Terran "things" that come close

[Chimaerrha]

In MHoP, the kids play hop-it - same as hopscotch.

[Hans]

Can you explain further, Chim, prove they are the same (by description)?

[Cheryl]

She posted a quote about it recently in another topic; I'll let you find it and re-post Chimmie!

But I'll say that it seemed pretty clear from the quote that hop-it was a hopscotch-like game. Do they have to be the exact same game/same rules to count for you? Or just a variation of a game played by hopping between squares chalked on the ground?

[Hans]

For a concordance it needs to be two names meaning the same thing, not something like it...

Now if the things are slightly different... well, the difference should be pretty marginal and small.

I mean, it's OK to make a list of things that are alike but that does not constitute a concordance.

[Brenda]

For me, a game where you have lines marked in chalk on the ground and you have to hop around, stay within the lines and keep your balance, is hopscotch.

[Chimaerrha]

Originally Posted by Hans

Can you explain further, Chim, prove they are the same (by description)?

Thanks, Cheryl and Hans.

MHoP online:

Lexey's paint-smearing occurred the day before the dragons came, so they were at the forefront of Robie's mind when they came circling down into the big Harper Hall courtyard. His parents were busy packing for their trip to Nerat, so he'd been told to go outside and play. He always missed his mother, but it would be nice to stay with Kubisa and her daughter Libby, where he could sing and play his pipe or his drum without worrying about annoying his father. It was his turn to hop-it without smudging the chalk lines on the flags and his attention was utterly focused on the movement of his feet – until Libby made him miss the longest hop by suddenly pointing skywards in astonishment.
"Oh, look, Robie!" she cried.

We were just playing hop-it, only Cortath landed in the middle..." At the boy's words, the great dragon Cortath courteously moved his feet. "It's all right, Cortath. You smudged the lines a bit with your tail, but we can fix it when you leave."

[Hans]

OK, the quote with the lines smeared is evidence enough for me, thanks I'll add hop-it / hopscotch!

[Chimaerrha]

Hans: something interestin':

TWD online:

gall, trying to steal one of Ramoth's eggs."
"The first way to secure this Weyr is to ban those dratted fire-lizards," Lessa said heatedly. "They're little tattlers, worse than useless…"
"Not all of them, Lessa," Brekke said, stepping up beside the Weyrwoman. "Some of them come on legitimate errands and give us a lot of assistance." ,
"Two were playing that game," Robinton said without humor.

That's an Earth term used on Pern....where should that go?.

[Hans]

Here

http://www.pern.nl/archives/sayings.htm

[Chimaerrha]

Oh. Thanks. Can you add that in, please, Hansie?

[Shalyn]

I don't understand that last one. "Two were playing that game"? I don't understand how it's Pernese vs. Terran.