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Beyond Anne McCaffrey We know Anne's not the only author you read and enjoy. Come here to discuss and discover authors beyond Anne!

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Old Dec 18 2004, 02:34 AM   #41
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There's also a book out called The Sellamillion, but I'm afraid I don't remember the author's name. Only that it had about 5 or 6 initials!
A.R.R.R. Roberts
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Old Dec 18 2004, 06:09 AM   #42
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That's it. Thanks Ghyle!
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Old Dec 24 2004, 03:01 AM   #43
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Don't mention it, what what, and all that. Tally ho, old chap, etc.
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Old Jan 8 2005, 07:21 AM   #44
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As a child I was going to be classed as 'mentally impaired as I could'nt read and had a bad lisp...Thank God for my mother who knew that this was'nt the case...in those days dyslexia was'nt recognized.
How ever an insprirational Engish Theacher read The Hobbit to the class and then lent me her copy so that I could read it again on my own. She then talked to me about LOTR as she was worried it would proved too much for an 11 year old with my dyslexia and I would lose confidence but she did lend me the trilogy, my mum's eyes popped out when she saw the size of the book!!!
But I've never looked back, I read LOTR when on holiday and at least once a year since then. Now of course the films have sent me off in all sorts of 'Quests' and I'm tracing the films thro' the books.
Thank god for JRR and the Theacher who surported me as a youngster
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Old Jan 9 2005, 02:47 PM   #45
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i have quotes from lord of the cheese...
(not really funny, but we had a friend we called cheese and read Lord of the Pants)
*fifth grader humor*
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Old Apr 20 2005, 09:53 PM   #46
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How do you all feel about the new 3 movies compared to the books? I find the first movie palatable but the rewriting and recharacteriztion gets worse in the other 2 movies. I mean its like in pern terms if someone had taken Fax and made him a dragonrider. The movies in my opinion were very stunning visually and very good if you had never read the books. I find the movies to be abominations that could have been better.
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Old Apr 21 2005, 03:31 AM   #47
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I found the movies flawed (for example, the slapstick treatment of Denethor is both crude and cruel, and detracts from the movie as a whole), yet able to stand as movies if one wasn't too critical. Whatever they may be, they fail from the start as adaptations, though. You don't approach an adaptation by taking what you enjoyed and throwing away the rest, but by looking seriously at what works, what doesn't, both as original and as adapted material.

The direction was at times over-obvious and hamfisted; it could have been more subtle.

The additions were obvious: the teeter-tottering staircase in the first episode is an obviously ludicrous example, meant to be breath-taking, but ending as merely yawn-making.

The structure sapped all suspense.

I'm sticking to the books.
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Old Apr 21 2005, 06:49 AM   #48
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I adore both the books and the movies, but to each their own. I found the adaptations quite good, and they're the movies I've rewatched more often than any others, in the past 5 years. That's saying something! There's no movie I've seen more often than three times apart from the original Star Wars films. With LotR it's 6 times and counting. 4 times since Christmas 2004 when I got the extended DVDs. Don't judge the movies before you've seen the extended versions, they add immensely to the story. So much so that I no longer bother to watch the theatrical versions. Lots of little scenes that explain a lot of the backstory, and which were cut from the theatrical releases for time reasons (I do wish they'd bring back intermissions!) were put back in.
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Old Apr 21 2005, 08:02 AM   #49
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I have 1 VERY good reason not to watch LOTR!
every time I got back from college last year my brothers watched the extended versions over and over again!
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Old Apr 21 2005, 09:07 AM   #50
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I adore both the books and the movies, but to each their own. I found the adaptations quite good, and they're the movies I've rewatched more often than any others, in the past 5 years. That's saying something! There's no movie I've seen more often than three times apart from the original Star Wars films. With LotR it's 6 times and counting. 4 times since Christmas 2004 when I got the extended DVDs. Don't judge the movies before you've seen the extended versions, they add immensely to the story. So much so that I no longer bother to watch the theatrical versions. Lots of little scenes that explain a lot of the backstory, and which were cut from the theatrical releases for time reasons (I do wish they'd bring back intermissions!) were put back in.


I wonder did you even read the books? I have seen the extended versions of all three. I am ok with ommissons but rewiting and recharacteration that sucks. I will give you an example The death of sauraman If they didn't want to film the scouring of the shire why even put this scene in. Faramir recharacteration really pissed me off. Faramir is the most noble of all the characters in the books and he is filmed as a feaking coward all so they could film osgiliath. Frodos recharacteration is another sore spot at no time did he ever send sam away. I did like the scene were frodo sees Galadhiel before he is attacked by Shelob. Speculating about things that are not written but might be going on in the world at large is fine but not the change of cannon.
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Old Apr 21 2005, 11:40 AM   #51
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I did read the books, Gilluin. I think PJ did a pretty good job with them. Faramir would've been a totally uninteresting character without the temptation of the ring. I find the book Faramir unconvincing by comparison. That's just me, though. The death of Saruman (get the spelling right before you accuse someone else of not reading the book - I read it at least once a year) was, IMO, one of the best scenes in RotK EE, and there were many good ones. Frodo had to send Sam away so that he had to confront Shelob alone. By and large PJ's changes added drama to a rather wordy plot. I adore Tolkien's language, but it's not the most concise writing I've ever read, and some of it isn't the easiest to dramatize. Oh, and I also loved it when Fangorn was given some of Tom Bombadil's lines in TTT EE. Not that I really missed Tom, as his inclusion wouldn't've advanced the story at all.
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Old Apr 21 2005, 12:35 PM   #52
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I love Tom. I think his omission was even worse than leaving out Gildor and putting Arwen on Glorfindel's horse. Without Tom and, more especially, the Barrow downs it doesn't make sense that Merry could deliver a cripling blow to the Witch King of Angmar. In the movie His sword was just some sort of throwaway that, until shortly before the departure, wasn't even sharp. It was (in the book) the nature of the blade he carried that made him able to accomplish what he did. My main gripe with the movies is the degradation of characters for the purpose of elevating Aragorn. It wasn't Aragorn who declared the challenge "Ride out to Meet them." Frodo was turned into a cringing little wimp instead of the brave hero who challenged the Black Riders at the ford. Sam, who was most noted for his solid common sense, came over as an idiot. Denethor was turned into an all out villian instead of the tortured human being that he was.

This is getting too long. I'll finish by saying I actually like to watch the movies for the beauty of Middle earth and the stunning special effects but every time I watch them I have to go re-read the books to get my mind straight about what really happened.
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Old Apr 21 2005, 12:38 PM   #53
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I did read the books, Gilluin. I think PJ did a pretty good job with them. Faramir would've been a totally uninteresting character without the temptation of the ring. I find the book Faramir unconvincing by comparison. That's just me, though. The death of Saruman (get the spelling right before you accuse someone else of not reading the book - I read it at least once a year) was, IMO, one of the best scenes in RotK EE, and there were many good ones. Frodo had to send Sam away so that he had to confront Shelob alone. By and large PJ's changes added drama to a rather wordy plot. I adore Tolkien's language, but it's not the most concise writing I've ever read, and some of it isn't the easiest to dramatize. Oh, and I also loved it when Fangorn was given some of Tom Bombadil's lines in TTT EE. Not that I really missed Tom, as his inclusion wouldn't've advanced the story at all.

I never accused you of not reading them I just ask if you had. BTW which order did you do them? Books first or movies first? What was wrong with the way it was written in the book? Frodo cuts the web with sam by his side then runs ahead of sam then sam gets attacked by gollum as frodo gets attacked by shelob. There was no need for the rewritting. Ohh to start with the whole Ent recharacteration. In the book Treebeard is allready pissed at Saruman before the hobbits arrive. Tolkien himself has set the antagonism between the Ents and Saruman. The rewrite was unnessary. They even show the distruction of the forest in the first movie why not just build on that. After watching the first movie I am so glad I didn't waste time going to the theatre and waited for the dvd to come out. I sat there in the living room watching the movie shouting crap crap at the tv. I still can't watch them without getting a little peeved. I guess it was the fact that It was tolkien fans who were making the films and I had a higher expectation. For heavens sake the animated version in the 70's or 80's was better.

I am so glad that the plug was pulled on the Pern movies I would be quite angry if they butchered Pern like LOTR was butchered.
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Old Apr 21 2005, 12:39 PM   #54
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There's the difference between the extended and theater release. Pippin and Merry got their elf-swords from Galadriel when they left Lothlórien.
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Old Apr 21 2005, 06:45 PM   #55
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Gilluin, it would seem that you and I are purists where it comes to the books we love. I don't think that's a bad thing and after all that was said about the Pern show, I, too, was glad it never went forward. On the other hand, the LotR movies are artistically beautiful. To me the best thing about them is that they have enticed thousands of people to pick up the books who would probably never have looked at them if the movies had never been made. If a reasonable movie were made about Pern it would probably do the same for Anne's books. Personally, I always thought the best way to make a Pern movie would be to set it in some pass not covered in the books with new characters that we fans don't already know and love.
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Old Apr 21 2005, 07:47 PM   #56
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I watched the movies before I started reading the books and I LOVED them. I'm glad I did because it really helps with visualisation of characters and locales. Some of the omissions in the movies are understandable because if every part was included, every installment would be 10 hours long. It's the blatant changes that get to me. Some of the best scenes, like the Bridge of Khazad Dum worked so well because they were nearly exactly like the book. I've only started The Two Towers, so I have yet to see how the rest compares to the books. One thing I found silly was Aragorn just letting Frodo go off on his own to Mordor. In the book it played out much smoother and beleivable. But one point where the films improved upon the book was including the story of Aragorn and Arwen into it. While I was reading, I kept wondering when that was going to show up, then realized it was only in the appendices! I appreciate the films for movies and I enjoy them, but PJ could have done a bit better on sticking to original characterization. Still, I think he did quite well on a darn near unfilmable series of books.

Now for the actual books themselfs, I love them. I love the languages and history, even if it does go over my head sometimes, it makes everything seem so authentic and realistic. Some parts seemed a bit drawn out and windy, and I wonder how everyone sat through such long speeches by Gandalf during the Council, but it was all very fascinating to me. Tolkein is a master at descriptive detail and setting, and plays on words. I get a wondrous sense of enchantment while reading it, it's so lushly written. Some fault it for being too drawn out in those points, but I really enjoy it. At least there is very little left out and few plot holes. I can't wait to finnish TTT and ROTK
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Old Apr 21 2005, 08:05 PM   #57
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I watched the movies before I started reading the books and I LOVED them. I'm glad I did because it really helps with visualisation of characters and locales. Some of the omissions in the movies are understandable because if every part was included, every installment would be 10 hours long. It's the blatant changes that get to me. Some of the best scenes, like the Bridge of Khazad Dum worked so well because they were nearly exactly like the book. I've only started The Two Towers, so I have yet to see how the rest compares to the books. One thing I found silly was Aragorn just letting Frodo go off on his own to Mordor. In the book it played out much smoother and beleivable. But one point where the films improved upon the book was including the story of Aragorn and Arwen into it. While I was reading, I kept wondering when that was going to show up, then realized it was only in the appendices! I appreciate the films for movies and I enjoy them, but PJ could have done a bit better on sticking to original characterization. Still, I think he did quite well on a darn near unfilmable series of books.

Now for the actual books themselfs, I love them. I love the languages and history, even if it does go over my head sometimes, it makes everything seem so authentic and realistic. Some parts seemed a bit drawn out and windy, and I wonder how everyone sat through such long speeches by Gandalf during the Council, but it was all very fascinating to me. Tolkein is a master at descriptive detail and setting, and plays on words. I get a wondrous sense of enchantment while reading it, it's so lushly written. Some fault it for being too drawn out in those points, but I really enjoy it. At least there is very little left out and few plot holes. I can't wait to finnish TTT and ROTK
I am glad you understand where I am comming from. You have a quite a few suprises ahead of you lets just say the TTT and TROTK diverge completely from the movies. FOTR movie was the best to follow the book. I think that was done purposly.
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Old Apr 22 2005, 03:51 AM   #58
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Spaceman!

Glad to see that you're enjoying the books! I'm soon to pick them up again and reread them, for who knows what number of times. I've lost count of the number of times that I've read them, and I'm close also to rereading the Silmarillion. You may like to tackle the History of Middle Earth at some stage, to appreciate both the stories behind the Silmarillion, and to get an idea of how LotR evolved. That may be a bit too daunting, though, at the moment, but it can well reward assiduous reading.

Have fun!
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Old Apr 22 2005, 08:55 AM   #59
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I got the omnibus edition of LotR for Christmas 2002 and had started reading before going to see FOTR on Boxing Day. However, I had read the whole thing, including appendices, twice before seeing TTT. There are so many characters in the book that it's just as well that some changes were made (such as Éomer riding to the rescue at Helm's Deep rather than fighting alongside Aragorn, and having yet another band of Rohirrim show up). The one change that annoyed me was the hint of a possibility of romance between Éowyn and Aragorn.
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Old Apr 22 2005, 01:04 PM   #60
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Spaceman!

Glad to see that you're enjoying the books! I'm soon to pick them up again and reread them, for who knows what number of times. I've lost count of the number of times that I've read them, and I'm close also to rereading the Silmarillion. You may like to tackle the History of Middle Earth at some stage, to appreciate both the stories behind the Silmarillion, and to get an idea of how LotR evolved. That may be a bit too daunting, though, at the moment, but it can well reward assiduous reading.

Have fun!
I do plan to read The Silmarillion sooner or later. I don't own it right now and the one at the libaray is in pretty bad shape. If I ever can save up enough to buy all 11 parts of The History of Middle Earth too, I will. But I saw that there was a book called The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, and I REALLY want to read that. Tom was such a colorful character
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Old Apr 23 2005, 03:21 AM   #61
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The Adventures of Tom Bombadil is a selection of poems, two about Tom himself. If you like Tolkien's verse, you should like them.
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Old Apr 23 2005, 06:29 PM   #62
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I tried reading The Silmarillion but it was too boring. After a month I was only a fourth (at most) of the way through and still wasn't lighting up. So I finally gave up and went to reading Dragonworld, which was far more interesting in my opinion.
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Old Apr 24 2005, 08:05 PM   #63
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The Adventures of Tom Bombadil is a selection of poems, two about Tom himself. If you like Tolkien's verse, you should like them.
Darn, I was kind of hoping it would be more of a story explaining more about Tom and his origins... but I love Tolkien's poems so I'll read it
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Old Apr 25 2005, 02:59 AM   #64
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From memory, it's included as part of the book Tales from the Perilous Realms. I'm not sure, though, so you would need to check.
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Old Jun 28 2005, 03:10 PM   #65
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I first read The Hobbit when I was at primary school, aged about 8 or so. I don't remember much about it, to be honest. I then got given the graphic novel when I was about 11 or 12, which I read, but didn't progress onto the actual book.

Before the films came out, my brother was given a gift set of LotR in hardback. They are presented as they were originally written - each "book" is broken down into 2 or 3 separate stories, and the last book is full entirely of histories, family trees (liked that bit) and bits and bobs. Very, very good.

I recently purchased The Silmarillion, but haven't seriously started it yet. I do own a copy of Mr. Bliss too, but I think it's in protective custody with my mother in France!

I want to get the rest of the Middle Earth series, and my own copy of LotR.
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Old Jun 29 2005, 02:14 AM   #66
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I read The Hobbit, watched the horrible movie (because we had to), but couldn't get through the first few pages of LotR.
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Old Jun 29 2005, 03:41 AM   #67
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Before the films came out, my brother was given a gift set of LotR in hardback. They are presented as they were originally written - each "book" is broken down into 2 or 3 separate stories, and the last book is full entirely of histories, family trees (liked that bit) and bits and bobs. Very, very good.
That was the way the book was published. In the original script Tolkien didn't even have the names for the subdivisions, it was called simply The Lord of the Rings. However, in the early 1950s paper was still scarce, and no publisher would take the risk of publishing the books as he originally wanted, in one volume. So that's why the trilogy appeared.
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Old Jun 29 2005, 01:18 PM   #68
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I love both the books and the movies. BUT, I veiw them as entirely seperate things. When I am watching the movies, I do my best NOT to think of the book in any given section. The problems I did have with the movies was the lack of the whole explination of how two guys end up with girls, when both girls are supposedly in love with one guy. (spellings and names escaping me here...I am having a dizzy spell, and probably shouldn't even be on line right now)
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Old Jun 29 2005, 02:17 PM   #69
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You're probably thinking about Aragorn and Arwen and Faramir and Eowyn. I understand the EE versions explain it better but to really know what went on, you really need the books. Arwen's role was considerably beefed up in the movie version, possibly to try to explain why he wasn't interested in the Lady of Rohan. Faramir, on the other hand, was debased in the movie to the point that a woman like her probably wouldn't want him. Another thing I wondered about in the movie was when Faramir took Frodo as a prisoner to Osgiliath in the movie (an event that never happened in the book) why did he allow him to carry the sword he pulled on Sam?
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Old Jun 30 2005, 04:34 AM   #70
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Quote:
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That was the way the book was published. In the original script Tolkien didn't even have the names for the subdivisions, it was called simply The Lord of the Rings. However, in the early 1950s paper was still scarce, and no publisher would take the risk of publishing the books as he originally wanted, in one volume. So that's why the trilogy appeared.
Thank you granath! That's exactly what I'm talking about!
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Old Sep 10 2005, 12:34 PM   #71
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I tried reading the hobbit. I just couldn't finsh it, everytime I tried reading it I'd fall asleep.
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Old Sep 10 2005, 04:19 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Sandi
You're probably thinking about Aragorn and Arwen and Faramir and Eowyn. I understand the EE versions explain it better but to really know what went on, you really need the books. Arwen's role was considerably beefed up in the movie version, possibly to try to explain why he wasn't interested in the Lady of Rohan. Faramir, on the other hand, was debased in the movie to the point that a woman like her probably wouldn't want him. Another thing I wondered about in the movie was when Faramir took Frodo as a prisoner to Osgiliath in the movie (an event that never happened in the book) why did he allow him to carry the sword he pulled on Sam?
The sword may have been a mistake, although I can't remember. Faramir was an utterly boring character in the book. Too perfect and without any character development whatsoever. To my mind, he was one of those who benefited the most from PJ's treatment.
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Old Sep 10 2005, 06:36 PM   #73
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Granath, for all that Faramir is an idealised character, he is not presented as fully rounded in the book as other characters. His treatment by Denethor is also instructive: he is passed over in favour of Boromir, so that, to use the cliche, he is always the bridesmaid, never the bride. Don't forget too that, if he were as perfect as he might seem, he would not have succumbed to the black breath, and wouldn't have needed rescue from the pyre.

Now.

Why calling LotR a trilogy gets my goat.

A trilogy is a sequence of three seperate works that are inter-related. With novels, the works are complete in themselves, three novels.

LotR is one novel. The three parts are not complete in themselves. They are three volumes. The pedantic term for LotR, as for all other three-volume novels, such as Wuthering Heights, et al., is triple-decker novel.
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Old Sep 11 2005, 06:18 AM   #74
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That's true. However, I do understand PJ's logic. He'd just spent two and a half movies telling people how nobody was safe from the insidious workings of the One Ring. Having Faramir be as in the book, apparently indifferent to it and happily giving them houseroom and serving breakfast (even if he had been a bit nasty towards Gollum), wouldn't've jelled with the other human characters of the story.
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Old Sep 11 2005, 03:48 PM   #75
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That's true. However, I do understand PJ's logic. He'd just spent two and a half movies telling people how nobody was safe from the insidious workings of the One Ring. Having Faramir be as in the book, apparently indifferent to it and happily giving them houseroom and serving breakfast (even if he had been a bit nasty towards Gollum), wouldn't've jelled with the other human characters of the story.
Exactly. While I love Tolkein's story, and for the most part, the book over the movie, but this was one point where I had to wonder what the hell he was smoking. It's just not right. No matter how perfect of a person he is, no matter how good hearted, according to how it's portrayed, EVERYone succumbs to the Ring (unless you're Tob Bombadil ). Having a character who seems so completely outside of its reaches by quality of heart suddenly just strips the Ring of all power. Even Sam, who we all know to be a very pure, resiliant and goodhearted Hobbit, started to wear down even after such a short time as a ringbearer, when he was hesitant to give the Ring back to Frodo in the tower of Cirith Ungol.
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Old Sep 12 2005, 02:16 AM   #76
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Indeed, Spiff. That's the very reason why I can't understand it when people say they hate movie Faramir. He's more consistent than the character in the book, as compared to the other human characters.
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Old Sep 17 2005, 05:45 PM   #77
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tried to read hobbit when the movies came out and found the book boring. haven't tried to read the others than again they are in a book somewhere.
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Old Sep 18 2005, 06:57 AM   #78
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Indeed, Spiff. That's the very reason why I can't understand it when people say they hate movie Faramir. He's more consistent than the character in the book, as compared to the other human characters.
I agree, the movie Faramir is more consistent and realistic, and ultimately I think it did the story good. However, the purist in me objects to all the extra time slurped up bringing the hobbits to Osgiliath which did NOT happen in the book, that could have been used toward fleshing out Tolkein's actual story more fully. But daaaaaang I love that scene of Faramir shooting the Fell beast, and Sam's inspirational speech
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Old Dec 24 2005, 10:16 PM   #79
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I read the hobbit and the lord of the rings when i was ten.
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Old Jan 18 2010, 05:32 PM   #80
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I don’t know if there is a thread about this, but I think not, and that would be a shame.
So, what did you read from Tolkien? I read The Hobbit and The lord of the rigs. What do you think about the movie?
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