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Science of Pern This forum is for Edith's Science of Pern project. Please keep each post to one subject, and stay on topic; off topic posts may be moved or deleted. Guests may post in this forum (subject to change).

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Old Sep 8 2006, 09:03 AM   #1
edith
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Default Science of Pern

As some of you know or may've worked out, I've kind've started a science of Pern project initially as something to do this summer (what summer? as it turned out).
Well, I've read all the books except Dkin, DBlood and Dfire. (I've missed those 3 off for now as I obviously havent got Dfire yet and people can't stop arguing about the other 2) I might add them later, I've also missed off the shorts as they tend to be low on science.
Anyway, I'll try to post my list of topics- its 6 pages long.
Basically, I'm just wondering what people think. Have I put in anything that is too obvious or have I missed something off? I have a better list but its an access file.
This might take several posts, so if it does I'll put some up now and some later...

Agenothree/HNO3/Nitric Acid
RSR: Flame thrower
DF: HNO3
DF: device
ATWOP: flames
ATWOP: dissolving engine casing

Analogue Watch
ATWOP

Appendix
SOP

Aqualung
DOP

Asteroids and Comets
SOP: PHO
SOP: Moving
DD: Halley’s comet + the Red Star
SOP

Astronomy
SOP: degrees, minutes, seconds

AU
SOP


Bacteria
ATWOP
ATWOP: antibiotics

Barometer
DOP

Batteries
ATWOP
ATWOP: Nickel-Cadmium
DQ:CR energy

Binoculars
SOP

Black Heavy Water (Crude Oil)
DF

Blood Transfusion
MHOP: Plasma


Ceramic Tiles
ROP: Heatproof

Computer
ATWOP: networking
ATWOP: construction
AI


Disease
M: Weather
M: Carriers
M: immunity
M: Spanish flu (similar)
M: Foot and Mouth (similar precautions)
M: pulmonary
M: Pneumonic
M: Bronchial
M: Secondary infections
M: epidemic
M: pandemic
M: immunisation
M: antibodies
M: mutations
M: zoonotic
M: recrudescent

Dolphins
COP

Dragons
DF: Genetic engineering
DD: dorsal nostrils and lungs
DD: 2nd stomach
AWOP: Facetted eyes

well there's A-D anyway.

Last edited by Cheryl; Sep 14 2006 at 07:34 PM. Reason: added Nitric Acid to Agenothree topic
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Old Sep 8 2006, 02:15 PM   #2
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I would definitely read Chronicles of Pern: First Fall, because three of the five stories take place during (Dolphins' Bell) or immediately after Dragonsdawn (Hold of Red's Ford, The Second Weyr) and the other two concern the original survey of Pern and a quick survey about 50 years AL.

You might as well get it all in!
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Old Sep 8 2006, 03:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: Science of Pern

Does this need to be a new Sub-forum? Then we could have separate threads for each field and keep track of each topic without getting muddled.

If we're going to be of help to Edi, we need to be "scientific" about it.
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Old Sep 9 2006, 09:48 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
I would definitely read Chronicles of Pern: First Fall, because three of the five stories take place during (Dolphins' Bell) or immediately after Dragonsdawn (Hold of Red's Ford, The Second Weyr) and the other two concern the original survey of Pern and a quick survey about 50 years AL.

You might as well get it all in!
oops should've said shorts on their own. I've put in COP.
I'll post a few more, but in a seperate post.
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Old Sep 9 2006, 09:53 AM   #5
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Earthquakes
ROP

Ecology
COP: No large herbivores

Electromagnetism
Levitation
ATWOP

Flame Thrower
DF

Generator
DOP: wind
DOP: tidal
ATWOP: Hydroelectricity
ROP, RSR: solar panel

Geology
TWD: stresses

Glass
ATWOP

Health
ATWOP: urban/agrarian
ROP: memory loss
M: rheumatism

Legrangian orbit
DD

LCD
ATWOP

Light bulbs
ATWOP

Liquid air/helium
ATWOP: behaviour

Loud Speaker
DQ

Matter/Antimatter
ATWOP: interaction

Meteor
SOP: showers (Ghosts)
COP: ice ages

Microscope
DQ: enlarging viewer

Minerals
SOP: Aluminium?

Multistage refrigeration
ATWOP


well that's done as far as m now...
what I really need is for people to say whether a topic is not needed or whether anything else is needed!
I can do most of the reasearch without too much trouble, but, once I've actually written some of it up, I wouldn't mind somebody reading it through and oking it!
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Old Sep 10 2006, 04:25 PM   #6
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Edith - I posted this at the NKT - I put that you originally posted it here. Is that OK?
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Old Sep 11 2006, 08:21 AM   #7
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Default Re: Science of Pern

Chim - in the future please secure permission first before re-posting someone's else's posts on another board, please. This forum does not exist to provide you with fodder for posting elsewhere.
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Old Sep 14 2006, 06:48 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimaerrha View Post
Edith - I posted this at the NKT - I put that you originally posted it here. Is that OK?
yeah, only trouble is that I don't go on there and I'm after feedback.

Ooh, better clear up, I put all references to HNO3, nitric acid and agenothree together. Did I forget to put the alternative names up?
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Old Sep 14 2006, 06:53 AM   #9
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Sorry for the multiple posts but I didn't want to mix stuff up! But here's some more

Oort Cloud
ATWOP
DD

Orbit
SOP: Perigee
SOP: Apogee
SOP: Eccentricity

Phosphine
DF: poisoning
DF: emission
DF: production

Plastics
DD: silicon
ATWOP: oil based- structure and manufacture

Printing Press
ATWOP
SOP

Radio
SOP: handhelds

Restoration
ATWOP: documents

Red Star
ATWOP, DD, DF, DQ: orbit
ATWOP: position
RSR,DF: Pern
RSR: eye rock
DQ: rises in East
DQ: interval
DQ: climate
DQ: Venusian
DQ: planets + effects on rs
DD: Pluto body
DD: source of thread

Rukbat
DF: where
DQ: solar system description
DQ: other planets- moons
DQ: solar system description

Satellite
TWD: Geostationary orbit

Seismology
P and S waves

Sextant
RSR

Sonar
DOP
DOP: ultrasound

Sonic Barrage
ATWOP

Star Equations
TWD

Super conductivity
ATWOP

Telescope
DQ: distance viewer

Thermos flask
ATWOP

Thread
ATWOP, DD: structure
DD, COP: Hoyle-Wickramensingh
COP: damage
RSR: Pern
RSR, DD: lifecycle

Transistor radio
DOP
DOP: relay

Tsunami

SOP
SOP: diffraction
SOP: reflection
SOP: path

Volcano
TWD: Vesuvius type

Wasting disease
TWD
DDrum: STI

Water Wheel
ATWOP


just noticed that somehow I've missed off that telegraph thing!
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Old Sep 14 2006, 08:07 AM   #10
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Default Re: Science of Pern

how about "knuckle disease"?
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Old Sep 14 2006, 10:33 AM   #11
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Edith, here's a link to the thread on the NKT if you want to read the comments there!

http://annemccaffreyfans.org/forum/s...ad.php?t=12242
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Old Sep 14 2006, 12:42 PM   #12
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thanks!
I'll check it out now!

err... can I post as a guest there or not?

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Old Sep 14 2006, 01:33 PM   #13
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No, you have to register to post, I'm afraid.
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Old Sep 14 2006, 05:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Science of Pern

Quote:
Originally Posted by P'ter View Post
Does this need to be a new Sub-forum? Then we could have separate threads for each field and keep track of each topic without getting muddled.

If we're going to be of help to Edi, we need to be "scientific" about it.
I'm open to that idea, if Edi is interested. One subject per thread, and OT posts subject to removal.

What do you think Edi?
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Old Sep 14 2006, 06:00 PM   #15
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That sounds like a good idea!
thanks!

Could someone please post this for me on NKT.
"It seems that the aims of my project have seemed to have got lost in the aether somewhere. What I am aiming to do is a glossary/encyclopaedia of science used in the books- not speculation of what might be happening as people have their own opinions of this. I eventually hope to set up a website with the full glossary etc in it, what I was after was for people to check it and say if anything was too obvious or if there was something that I had missed. Also, PLEASE could this not go to any more forums please, as I am very busy and this project is complicated enough without having to check up on half a dozen fora for posts. For the record, I was not intending for this to go beyond MoM at such an early stage, although I appreciate the kind thought! I do not give my permission for this to go onto any other forum without my express consent.
Thank you
edith"

It was a kind thought Chim but as I'm about to start my 3rd year at uni, I do not need the extra work! I planned the science thing a while back and its a long term project. Checking different forums for comments cannot be put off to the weekend or holidays! I've just looked at the NKT posts and they're getting complicated and way OT!
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Old Sep 14 2006, 07:32 PM   #16
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I'll take care of it Edi.
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Old Sep 15 2006, 03:41 AM   #17
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thanks for everything.
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Old Sep 17 2006, 10:30 AM   #18
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ok Some candidates for Rukbat ( Type G stars)
Distance from SOL (In light years)
63.3 CD-31 17597 G5-8 V ? Sagittarius Gl 790, HD 194640, Hip 100925

68.0 HR 7330 G1-5 V ? Sagittarius Gl 755, HD 181321, CD-35 13422

85.0 CD-28 15936 G5-K0 IV-V 0.? Sagittarius Subgiant?, Hip 96124, HD 183877, CP-28 6957, TYC 6897-2051-1

90.9 CD-38 13832 G1 V ? Sagittarius HD 189931, Hip 98813, SAO 211778

93.9 BD-11 4932 G0 V ? Aquila-Sagittarius HD 180409, Hip 94757, SAO 162401

98.3 CD-25 13291 G5 V ? Sagittarius HD 171665, CP-25 6575, Hip 91287
i got the information from http://members.nova.org/~sol/solcom/stars3/100-gs.htm hope it's of Use

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Old Sep 17 2006, 11:10 AM   #19
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Nick, the real Rukbat isn't a G-type star
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Old Sep 17 2006, 11:21 AM   #20
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The identity of Rukbat is known, as it is a real star which Anne picked out of a star catalog; its standard astronomical name is Alpha Sagittarius. It's details just don't match up with Pern's Rukbat as Hans said -- the real Rukbat is a B-type star.
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Old Sep 17 2006, 01:18 PM   #21
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grins i know however i was looking at G class stars that could be Perns star and be in range of a colony ship as discribed by anne, a G3 dwarf star with Fe , na and caII lines, grins call me geek but annie knows what i am like
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Old Sep 17 2006, 08:18 PM   #22
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Well, it would have to be in the Sagittarius sector...
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Old Sep 18 2006, 08:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldwolf View Post
ok Some candidates for Rukbat ( Type G stars)
Of this list, these two are closest on the sky to Rukbat, as viewed from Earth. I'd also ditch the ones that might be giants/sub-giants.
Quote:
68.0 HR 7330 G1-5 V ? Sagittarius Gl 755, HD 181321, CD-35 13422
90.9 CD-38 13832 G1 V ? Sagittarius HD 189931, Hip 98813, SAO 211778
...and here's a picture of them.

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Old Oct 6 2006, 05:13 PM   #24
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Edith: you should ask Becky to e-mail you the article on thread from Pern Portfolio.
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Old Oct 26 2006, 10:47 AM   #25
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Re. plastics and oils - there's a lot about those in the first pass books. As welll as the oil strikes, quite a few materials are described as bring produced by the Pernese plasticians.
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Old Oct 26 2006, 04:06 PM   #26
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I'll add it to the list when I have time. AT this rate though, (I've so far had 2 example sheets in, two more with looming deadlines, a project begun and abandoned (our lecturer messed up and set us a project which was very heavy in FORTRAN and Fourier analysis (both learnt in the same module) for our first project, and begun one on tomography. I've also had a cold, stomach upset and a suspicious sniffle...

so, I'll do it when I can....
(oh for the Christmas holidays!)
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Old Oct 26 2006, 04:37 PM   #27
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No rush! [And I'm always here if you have a FORTRAN question...]
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Old Oct 26 2006, 05:55 PM   #28
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I've forgotten my fortran programming (thank the egg) and my Algol.

Using compiler language to go straight to machine code was slower but seemed to give cleaner pragrammes.
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Old Oct 27 2006, 10:59 AM   #29
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FORTRAN's working ok atm...
except I keep having problems with the emacs editing program.
I use the proper screen to write the programs as its easier to read than emacs but I can't correct my mistakes- and believe me there're alot of them!
I'm going to do the example sheets this weekend- before I can catch anything else viscious!

I'm just going to be hopeful- I got my highest mark on the module which made me ill last semester so at this rate I should get amazing marks!

If I do have time I'll do some more work this weekend.
Does anyone know any good chemistry and geology books?
Apart from Mum's books which are old I've only got Atkin's physical chemistry which is the wrong type of chemistry!
It's a pity there's not alot about semiconductors... I've got 3 modules which have alot of semiconductors in them!
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Old Oct 27 2006, 12:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
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FORTRAN's working ok atm...
except I keep having problems with the emacs editing program.
I use the proper screen to write the programs as its easier to read than emacs but I can't correct my mistakes- and believe me there're alot of them!
Problems with emacs? ctrl-underscore (ctrl-shift-"-") is the keystroke for undo. I love emacs - give me a shout with any probs.

Quote:

Does anyone know any good chemistry and geology books?
Apart from Mum's books which are old I've only got Atkin's physical chemistry which is the wrong type of chemistry!
It's a pity there's not alot about semiconductors... I've got 3 modules which have alot of semiconductors in them!
Anything by Eileen Ramsden, for chemistry. She's the best. I don't know if that'd get you much beyond a-level standard though.
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Old Oct 27 2006, 03:59 PM   #31
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I haven't DONE A-level chemistry... I've got A* double award at GCSE and a few books. I did do biology up to A-level as well as physics so the terminology isn't hard- its just its not as accessible.

I can't read the odd script they use on Emacs-thats the only problem I have with it and the fact that the colours aren't that clear, especially towards the end of our 2 hour session.
nb I'm not supposed to look at a monitor for more than 1/2 an hour!
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Old Nov 1 2006, 06:46 PM   #32
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Have you read the Wikipedia entry for Pern?

They have Rukbat down as a possible sol type NEAR to Alpha Sagittarius, but called Rukbat to keep things simple.

they have the Red star down as a "Sedna class inner Oort cloud object".

They also have a lot of bits on lots of other *-ologies. I don't know who wrote it but it's interesting. (I wonder if it was contributed by Kath? )

also the entry for Dragonriders of Pern.
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Old Nov 2 2006, 03:20 AM   #33
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Quote:
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(I wonder if it was contributed by Kath? )
Nope. I havn't got into wikis yet.
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Old Jan 14 2007, 05:57 PM   #34
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I've been having a thought and I've noticed a real science woopsie!
Blame it on chaos!

As multiple body systems are chaotic (the three body problem) how can AIVAS accurately predict that moving the rs won't cause a maor disaster as in a chaotic system a small change has big effects!?!

I've got a week after my exams where I can do some work on this (at last)
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Old Jan 15 2007, 03:09 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by edith View Post
I've been having a thought and I've noticed a real science woopsie!
Blame it on chaos!

As multiple body systems are chaotic (the three body problem) how can AIVAS accurately predict that moving the rs won't cause a maor disaster as in a chaotic system a small change has big effects!?!

I've got a week after my exams where I can do some work on this (at last)
Ah, he's a big computer. He can probably run enough simulations to determine exactly how stable/unstable the system is, and figure out that there's an infinitesimally small chance of things going wrong. The main feature of that system is Rukbat in mass terms; any other perturbations are unlikely to do worse than lead to very minor orbital variations. If the a skewed RS orbit was capable of affecting the other planets in a major way, the original orbit (which probabl;y isn't on any kind of harmonic with the other bodies) would probably also be capable of doing so, and there wouldn't be much of a planetary system there anyway.
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Old Jan 15 2007, 06:08 AM   #36
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Thanks!
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Old Jan 15 2007, 09:37 AM   #37
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As multiple body systems are chaotic (the three body problem) how can AIVAS accurately predict that moving the rs won't cause a maor disaster as in a chaotic system a small change has big effects!?!
In SoP, somebody asks if the deflection of the Red Star could have caused the comet to hit PERN.

They mentioned that AIVAS waited as long to deflect the Red Star to eliminate any possibility of upsetting the system. Also, if you look at how far in the future PERN is, and how computers are advancing, then it probably has the computing power of 1000's of our best supercomputers put together.

I think AIVAS has made enough calculations to be pretty sure (with the exception of unknown objects) that moving the Red Star would have only minor changes to the orbits of known objects.

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Old Jan 15 2007, 10:57 AM   #38
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Old Jan 15 2007, 11:01 AM   #39
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Yup. Remember that they only had ONE chance to do this during a very specific window of opportunity. This was the ONLY place in its orbit and conjunction with other planets/spacial objects in which it could be safely and successfully removed from its current path. Extensive calculations and simulations, plotting the course of every detectable object of significance and determining their influence on each other, and consequently what effects the alteration would cause, would have made this theoretically possible. There's no way he would have just made them blow it off its course willy-nilly without considering cause and effect!
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Old Jan 15 2007, 12:33 PM   #40
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when I have a few free weeks I'll model this on Mathcad- I sort of know how! Though I'll use Modified Euler rather than Runge-Kutta as it's less accurate but far quicker!
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