DQ missing a scene?

[Almaron]

I was just going over a chapter summary of Dragonquest on another wiki so I could update the terrible plot summary I did ages ago, and I found a mention of a scene during chapter eight where...well, I'll post an excerpt from the summary:

F'nor approaches Brekke by her dragon, speaking with her about Wirenth's upcoming mating flight. He suggests that she could ask for an open flight, suggesting such bronzeriders as N'ton of Benden or B'dor of Igen.

Brekke wonders aloud whether, if the fire-lizards could be Impressed by anyone, if perhaps a girl could Impress a fighting dragon, not just queens. F'nor is stunned by her suggesting, dismissing the idea that a woman could fly a fighting dragon, which was hard work. Brekke fires back that managing a Weyr, or plowing fields, was hard work too, and suggests that Mirrim would make a good dragonrider.

As they're discussing this idea, F'lar arrives.

While I was going through my own edition of Dragonquest (one of the recent Corgi paperbacks) to make sure I hadn't missed any plot points, I found I couldn't find this scene; instead F'lar arrived right after F'nor mentioned the bronze riders. Later, I noticed this:

F'lar suggests that the fire-lizards might help to ease matters between the Weyrs and the Holds and Crafts. F'nor casually remarks that Brekke hoped to see Mirrim Impress a fighting dragon. F'lar was startled, and then began to laugh, imagining T'ron's reaction. He asks F'nor more questions about the similarities between fire-lizards and dragons. Their discussion is cut short by a siren announcing Thread.

I didn't notice this bit either; instead it went straight to the siren. Is there a different edition of Dragonquest with these scenes, or did the person who wrote the summary mix it up with a different chapter or book? And if it is a scene in another edition, can someone post the extra lines so I can print them out and add it to my shelf?

[Almaron]

Up to chapter ten now, and the summary opens with:

Robinton was wearing a green tunic, specially prepared by Masterweaver Zurg.
He wore pants of a light green, made by Mastertanner Belesdan. Both Zurg and Belesdan had disapproved of his choice of colors, but Robinton felt that it was time to drop that old superstition. He waited for his transport, dragons, grudgingly granted by T'ron. Three dragons appear, a green, a blue, and a bronze. He calls four other Harpers who were accompanying him. The three dragons are still in the sky as he comes out to meet them, and Robinton wonders which dragon he should pick. The blue from Telgar Weyr, which appeared first? The green from Fort Weyr, to whom his Craft was weyrbound? Or the bronze from Benden, as the highest honor?

The three dragons landed, and their riders began arguing amongst themselves who should transport Robinton. The Benden bronzerider, N'ton, gracefully bows out of the argument, deferring to Robinton himself, while the other two continue arguing. Robinton choses the bronze dragon, as his rider gave him the honor due him.
Robinton devides the other four Harpers between the blue and green dragons.

This bit sounds familar, at least, but again, it's not in my edition - or at least, not at the start; perhaps it's later on?

[kevia]

Well, I remember all those scenes, and just checked. I now have the kindle version and they are there in chapters 8 and 10.

[Almaron]

Odd...so why would they be missing from my edition? Guess I'm going to have to buy a different version.

[mawra]

I have not read the book in awhile, but I remember those scenes.

[Bruce]

I just checked my iBook version, as well as my US/UK versions and I see them there. Possibly a misprint? Or as we collectors say, the rare version.

[Lily]

I wondered why UK and US versions left bits out for no apparent reason

Years ago I made a trivia quiz on one book and no one could answer one of the questions. So I copied the appropriate paragraph from my book into the thread, and everyone said, oh, I havent got that in my book!

How dare they cut out ANY of Anne's words!!!!

[Hans]

It's known that there are small and somtimes big differences between US and UK editions. Has to do with editors and publishers.

Differences between UK editions are very rare. There was a retypeset scheduled by Transworld (the UK publisher, i.e. Corgi is an imprint of that house) for which Anne approached Anneli, Cheryl and me, to weed the mistakes out (she meant the obvious, old ones like T'ton/T'ron , T'kil, Lytol's dragon having the wrong colour etc.) but as far as I know that retypeset never took place and the errors are still there.

It would be interesting to know printing numbers for those differences, Almaron.

[Almaron]

Ok, where is the printing number located? I was going to post the edition in my initial post...only I found I had no idea which bit of information from the front of the book was the important bit.

[Hans]

If it's a Corgi paperback it'll probably be mentioned on the copyright page, which is the page after/on the back of the title page.

In the latest editions I have (the series with the new font of which I can't think of the name right now but of which the N looks like the Pi sign) a so called shirtened number line is given under the heading Printing History, which says:
Rapp & Whiting edition published 1973
Corgi Edition published 1982
17 19 20 18

which means that's a 17th printing paperback, published in 1982.

[Almaron]

Right, mine just says;

Rapp & Whiting edition published 1973
Corgi Edition published 1982
19 20

[Hans]

That would mean yours is a 19th printing.

Now if you could give page numbers... I could check various printings. I think I gave about five different ones (paperback) which we could also check against the hardback.

[Almaron]

Okay, here's the numbers from the contents:

Prelude - 17
Chapter 1 - 25
Chapter 2 - 47
Chapter 3 - 68
Chapter 4 - 99
Chapter 5 - 128
Chapter 6 - 167
Chapter 7 - 177
Chapter 8 - 194
Chapter 9 - 223
Chapter 10 - 235
Chapter 11 - 276
Chapter 12 - 291
Chapter 13 - 318
Chapter 14 - 348
Chapter 15 - 362
Chapter 16 - 388
Dragondex - 423

[Hans]

Uh, I meant the page numbers for the missing plot/scene/bits

[Almaron]

Um...how? I don't have them...

I suppose can give you the page numbers immediately before or after where the scenes should be; F'nor talking with Brekke before F'lar (without the discussion about Mirrim) arrives is on page 200, and Robinton arrives at Telgar Hold (without anything about who got to take him there) at the start of the chapter on page 235.

[Hans]

Right, looked things up and I can't find the scene / text bit below in any of the UK paperbacks, not in the early ones (Sphere 1974-1979, page 143) not in the early or later Corgi editions (checked 4). It is also missing in teh UK Dragonquest hardback, so we must assume it was cut already for the first UK edition by Rapp & Whiting. It is present in the US editions as from the first editions of the book (the paperback) and also in the later DelRey hardbacks.

The text should be placed after Brekke says "Why do I have a bronze, you a queen, and Mirrim three?"

F’nor whistled. “Why, Brekke, such revolutionary thoughts from a craftbred girl? Where women know there’s only one place for them . . . Oh, you’ve got Mirrim in mind as a rider?”
“Yes. She’d be as good or better than some of the male weyrlings I know,” and there was such asperity in Brekke’s voice that F’nor wondered just which boys she found so lacking. “Her ability to Impress three fire lizards indicates . . .”
“Hey — backwing a bit, girl. We’ve enough trouble with the Oldtimers as it is without trying to get them to accept a girl riding a fighting dragon! C’mon, Brekke. I know your fondness for the child and she seems a good intelligent girl, but you must be realistic.”
“I am,” Brekke replied, so emphatically that F’nor looked at her in surprise. Some riders should have been crafters or farmers — or — nothing, but they were acceptable to dragons on Hatching. Others are real riders, heart and soul and mind. Dragons are the beginning and end of their ambition. Mirrim . . .”

Then the UK editions go on with the sentence: "A dragon broke into the air above the Weyr, trumpeting.

[Kath]

Wow. That's quite a cut. Considering that Brekke can talk to all dragons, that puts a whole different slant on Mirrim's Impression, doesn't it?

[Almaron]

Wonderful! Thank you very much for posting that - I was planning to go to my library and photocopy the missing pages, but it looked like they had the same edition as me when I checked the catalogue. Could you please post the missing lines from chapter ten too - and the bit from chapter eight where F'nor tells F'lar of Brekke's thoughts?

[Hans]

1.
Almaron, gee, if this is an example of the differences between UK and US editions of DQ, we're in for a bit of research The red text is missing in the UK edition:

“One of the basic troubles between Lord Holders and Weyrmen are dragons, F’lar, and those fire lizards might just ease matters.”
“That’s what I was thinking earlier, considering that young Mirrim had Impressed three. That’s really astonishing, even if she is weyrbred.”
“Brekke would like to see her Impress a fighting dragon,” F’nor said in a casual way, watching his half-brother’s face closely.
F’lar gave him a startled stare and then threw back his head and laughed.
“Can you . . . imagine . . . T’ron’s reaction?” . . . he managed to say.
“Well enough to spare myself your version, but the fire lizard may do the trick! And, have the added talent of keeping Hold in contact with Weyr if these creatures prove amenable to training.”
“If — if! Just how similar to dragons are fire lizards?”
F’nor shrugged. “As I told you, they are Impressionable — if rather undiscriminating,” he pointed to Mirrim at the Hearth and then grinned maliciously, “although they detested Kylara on sight. They’re slaves to their stomachs, though after Hatching that’s very definitely draconic. They respond to affection and flattery. The dragons themselves admit the relationship, seem totally free of jealousy of the creatures. I can detect basic emotions in the thoughts of mine and they generally inspire affection in those who handle them.”


2.
As for Robinton's conveyance to Telgar, things get definitely worse where editing is concerned. Though the chapter 10 heading in the UK edition still mentions "Early morning in Harpercrafthall at Fort Hold" the whole scene at the Harpercrafthall is cut! But the editor forgot to take the mention out of the chapter heading!!

Here's the text that appears in the US but not in the UK edition:

Robinton, Masterharper of Pern, adjusted his tunic, the rich green pile of the fabric pleasing to the touch as well as the eye. He turned sideways, to check the fit of the tunic across his shoulders. Masterweaver Zurg had compensated for his tendency to slouch, so the hem did not hike up. The gilded belt and the knife were just the proper dress accouterments.
Robinton grimaced at his reflection. “Belt knives!” He smoothed his hair behind his ears, then stepped back to check the pants. Mastertanner Belesdan had surpassed himself. The fellis dye had turned the soft wher-hide into a deep green the same shade as the tunic. The boots were a shade darker. They fit snug to his calf and foot.
Green! Robinton grinned to himself. Neither Zurg nor Belesdan had been in favor of that shade, though it was easily obtainable. About time we shed another ridiculous superstition, Robinton thought.
He glanced out of his window, checking the sun’s position. It was above the Fort range now. That meant mid-afternoon at Telgar Hold and the guests would be gathering. He’d been promised transport. T’ron of Fort Weyr had grudgingly acceded to that request, though it was a tradition of long standing that the Harper could request aid from any Weyr.
A dragon appeared in the northwest sky.
Robinton grabbed up his overcloak — the dress tunic would never keep out the full cold of between — his gloves and felted case that contained the best guitar. He’d hesitated about bringing it. Chad had a fine instrument at Telgar Hold, but fine wood and gut would not be chilled by those cold seconds of between as mere flesh would.
When he passed the window, he noticed a second dragon winging down, and was mildly surprised.
By the time he reached the small court of the Harpercrafthall, he gave a snort of amusement. A third dragon had appeared from due east.
Never around when you want ‘em, though. Robinton sighed, for it seemed the problems of the day had already begun, instead of waiting dutifully for him (as what trouble does?) at Telgar Hold, where he’d expected it.
Green, blue — and ah-ha — bronze dragon wings in the early morning sun.
“Sebell, Talmor, Brudegan, Tagetarl, into your fine rags. Hurry or I’ll skin you and use your lazy innards for strings,” Robinton called in a voice that projected into every room facing the Court.
Two heads popped out of an upper window of the apprentice barracks, two more at the journeyman’s Hold.
“Aye, sir.” “Coming, sir.” “In a moment!”
Yes, with four harpers of his own, and the three at Telgar Hold — Sebell played the best bass line, not to mention Chad the Telgar Harper improvising in the treble — they’d have a grand loud group. Robinton tossed his overcloak to his shoulder, forgetting that the pile of the green tunic might crush, and grinned sardonically at the wheeling dragons. He half-expected them all to wink out again at the discovery of this multiplicity.
He should pick the Telgar Weyr blue on the grounds that he appeared first. However, the green dragon came from Fort Weyr, to whom his Craft was weyrbound. Yet Benden Weyr did the honor of sending a bronze. Perhaps I should take the first to land, though they’re all taking their time about it, he thought.
He stepped out of the Court quadrangle to the fields beyond, since it was obvious that’s where the beasts were landing.
The bronze landed last, which canceled that method of impartial choice. The three riders met mid-field, some few dragonlengths from the disputed passenger. Each man began arguing his claim at once. When the bronze rider became the target of the other two, Robinton felt obliged to intervene.
“He’s weyrbound to Fort Weyr. We have the right,” said the green rider indignantly.
“He’s guest of Telgar Hold. Lord Holder Larad himself requested . . .”
The bronze rider (Robinton recognized him as N’ton, one of the first non-weyrbred to Impress a dragon at Benden Weyr Turns ago) appeared neither angry nor disconcerted.
“The good Masterharper will know the right of it,” and N’ton bowed graciously to Robinton.
The others gave him scarcely a glance but renewed their quarrel.
“Why, there’s no problem at all,” Robinton said in the firm, decisive tone he rarely employed and which was never contradicted.
The two wranglers fell silent and faced him, the one sullen, the other indignant.
“Still, it does the Craft honor that you vie to serve it,” and Robinton accorded the two dissidents an ironic bow. “Fortunately, I have need of three beasts. I’ve four more harpers to transport to Telgar Hold to grace the happy occasion.” He emphasized the adjective, noticing the glares that passed between blue and green riders. Young N’ton, though not weyrbred, had excellent manners.
“I was told to take you,” the Fort Weyr man said in a sour voice.
“And took such joy of the assignment, it has made my morning merry,” Robinton replied crisply. He saw the smug look on the blue rider’s face. “And while I appreciate Weyrleader R’mart’s thoughtfulness in spite of his recent — ah — problems at Telgar Hold, I shall ride the Benden Weyr dragon. For they do not grudge the Masterharper the prerogative.”
His craftsmen came racing out of the Hall, riding cloaks askew on their shoulders, fitting their instruments in felt wrappings as they came. Robinton gave each a cursory glance as they came to a ragged line in front of him, breathless, flushed and, thank the Shell, happy. He nodded toward Sebell’s pants, indicated that Talmor should adjust his twisted belt, approved Brudegan’s immaculate appearance, and murmured that Tagetarl was to smooth his wild hair.
“We’re ready, sirs,” Robinton announced and, giving a curt bow of his head to the other riders, turned on his heel to follow N’ton.
“I’ve half a mind — ” the green rider began.
“Obviously,” Robinton cut in, his voice as cold as between and as menacing as Thread. “Brudegan, Tagetarl, ride with him. Sebell, Talmor, on the green.”
Robinton watched as Brudegan, with no expression on his face, gestured politely to the shorter, green rider to precede them. Of all men on Pern, harpers feared few. Any one deliberately antagonizing them for no cause found himself the butt of a satirical tune which would be played around the land.
There were no further protests. And Robinton was rather pleased to notice that N’ton gave no indication that there’d been any display of ill nature.

The text then goes further:
Robinton on N’ton’s bronze arrived in the air, facing the cliff-palisade that was Telgar Hold. The swift river ..etc.

While the UK edition starts the chapter (!) with:
Robinton, with his apprentices Brudegan and Talmor, were conveyed to Telgar on the wedding day by N'ton's bronze which arrived in the air, facing the cliff-palisade that was Telgar Hold. The swift river... etc.

So, apart from the changed text, in the UK ed. Robinton takes Brudegan and Talmor with him while in the US ed. he's accompanied by Brudegan, Talmor, Tagetarl and Sebell! That surely must mean more editing further on...


I'll keep my DQ's nearby!

[Cheryl]

This tickles a memory that DQ is one of the worst for differences between the US and UK versions, and highly unusual in that the US version has extra text -- usually it's the other way around.

I'm going to go see if we have an older discussion about this.

[Hans]

Hmm, I always thought it was Dragonsdawn Remember the comparison Anneli did? I think even the comparison was 12 pages and there were 40 characters more in the UK edition than in the US, or was it the other way round?

Must say that I found edited bits in more Pern books. Years ago I started a compariosn of AtWoP and Renegades but didn't have the time to pursue that research.

And one of our first projects together (you and me) was a full Nitpic Comparison of Dragonflight (or was it another title?), wasn't it? Back in what was it, 1998 or 1999?


Now if I had all those text digitally the computer could compare them for me, but alas, I seem to have all digital Pern books in the US edition. I know that I scanned the first one myself! Page by page, OCR with corrections by hand!! And Just when I started on the White Dragon (nearly ripped an edition apart just for scanning purposes) there suddenly were eBooks on the market for Microsoft's eReader! What a wonder It was one of the reasons I bought a Pocket PC; that's the predecessor of the iPad/tablet, boys and girls That particular pocket PC (an HP that also served as a car satnav) was actually stolen at Eurocon in Copenhagen when Anne was GOH but I did buy another one after that.

[Hans]

LOL, just discovered I DO have a digital UK edition of Dragonquest.

I've got so much Pern on my computer, I don't know what I have myself...! *sigh*


OK, on further consideration my digital DQ UK copy is the read through I did for Anne, catching all the typo's and such. I did not do a comparison against the US edition because that wasn't asked for but I think I did catch all the errors in the UK text which should have been corrected had there been a re-typesetting of the UK edition, as Anne had asked for. Almaron, if you want that UK text you are welcome to have it, I can mail it to you.

example:

[page 216]

“He rests easily at Telgar Hold [probable typo: Telgar Weyr will be meant since R’mart wasn’t at the wedding because of his injuries], thanks to the riders from Ista and Igen.” M’rek nodded gravely to D’ram and K’dor [typo: should be G’narish – the name K’dor is not used in any of the dragonrider books and is possibly an earlier name AMC used for the person she later decided to call G’narish; this mention being overlooked when replacing K’dor with G’narish?].
“How many at Telgar Weyr wish to go south?”

[Almaron]

Could he be another rider from Ista? The dragondex at the back of my version of DQ lists a "K'der"; a blue rider from Ista Weyr who as far as I recall doesn't appear anywhere else.

That's all the missing text, isn't it? If it's been edited more, perhaps I should look on Ebay for a US edition.

[Cheryl]

Originally Posted by Hans

Hmm, I always thought it was Dragonsdawn Remember the comparison Anneli did? I think even the comparison was 12 pages and there were 40 characters more in the UK edition than in the US, or was it the other way round?

Oh, I haven't forgotten that! But I feel like this has come up before that the UK version of DQ is missing bits from the US one, and that one of the bibliographic sources mentioned this. But I completely failed at finding either a past discussion here or mention of it in Hargreaves.

So maybe I'm inventing the whole memory, but it stands out because of being suprised that it's the UK version that had heavy editing as that's uncommon not just for Anne but for most authors.

[Hans]

Cheryl, I had the same feeling, like this subject had come up before but I couldn't find anything in my own files. I didn't search the forum. I definitely don't think you're inventing things.

As said above, the only thing I do have concerning changes in Dragonquest are UK word docs of Dragonquest, and Dragonflight, with all typos and mistakes highlighted in blue, we made for Anne to send to Diane, her UK agent, for a possible retypeset of the Transworld edition.

[Almaron]

It's just occured to me that such regional edits to the books is probably why I became confused while doing a plot summary for Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern. My edition listed a character in the Dragondex - Felldool, Healer of Brum Hold - who failed to appear or be mentioned at any point in the story. Was his also a scene that got cut from some editions?

[Hans]

Almaron,

In June 2004 I wrote in a post on Anne's original Kitchen Table Forum:

Bregard, the Peyton Hold healer, Felldool, the Hold Brum healer, Gale, the Big Bay Hold healer, Mendir, the Ground Hold Healer and Tonia, the Igen Seahold healer, are all only mentioned in the Moreta dragondex and not in the book.

On a side note: Journeyman Harper Masdek of Fort Hold is also only mentioned in de Moreta index. This also goes for some dragons.

If this is evidence for a paragraph (or more?) that did not make the editors cut I don't know. I never asked Anne and I never heard anything about an ARC or manuscript that held more text than the printed version of Moreta.

While the several dragons, a Hold and the few persons could well appear in different parts of the story (there is not much of a connection between them) the fact that so many healers are only in the index and not in the book might be and indication of a removed paragraph in which they were summed up (as casualties or jst as healers?)...

I can't really remember if we checked the US and UK versions against each other. I will have to look if I have both of those as text files or ebooks.
I did a text serach in my book text file for Felldool and that did not return any results.

[Almaron]

Ah, I wondered if that had happened!

A similar thing happens in MHOP, I think; isn't MasterVintner Gorton listed in the character list at the start, despite not appearing at all? I also seem to remember it oddly didn't list Fax at all, despite him being arguably the main antagonist of the second half...although I suppose that could be to keep his role in the book secret.

[Lily]

Cant see the point of an index if a main character is left out
It is odd though