A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum  

Go Back   A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum > The Anne McCaffrey Collection > Dragonriders of Pern

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Sep 19 2008, 12:47 PM   #1
T'mynn
Inactive
 
T'mynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere. Maybe Pern.:-)
Gender: F
Fan of: All books
Now Reading: Chronicles of Pern
Default Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

Oy, I'd hate to see how they'd set a Dragon's wing, considering they'd require a lot of numbweed to ease his/er pain. What's to keep the poor beastie from bitting the humans trying to help them?

Last edited by Anneli; Sep 21 2008 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Moved to a new Thread
T'mynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 19 2008, 04:00 PM   #2
Anneli
Weyrwoman
 
Anneli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Shropshire
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern!
Now Reading: Dragonflight
Default Re: Avalyn, Weyrwoman of Pern

Simple

a) By no stretch of the imagination can a dragon be described as a "beastie"

b) A dragon, we have been constantly told by Anne, will never attack a human.

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Mynn Enz View Post
Oy, I'd hate to see how they'd set a Dragon's wing, considering they'd require a lot of numbweed to ease his/er pain. What's to keep the poor beastie from bitting the humans trying to help them?
Anneli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 19 2008, 04:15 PM   #3
Anareth
Journeywoman Healer
 
Anareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here and There
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern, Ship Series
Now Reading: Girl Genius (read it!)
Default Re: Avalyn, Weyrwoman of Pern

Yes, but they can thrash around when in pain without regard to humans present.

And T Mynn--there simply isn't enough numbweed in the world.
Anareth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 19 2008, 04:17 PM   #4
Anneli
Weyrwoman
 
Anneli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Shropshire
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern!
Now Reading: Dragonflight
Default Re: Avalyn, Weyrwoman of Pern

Oh I agree, they could certainly thrash around, but I just can't see them biting (ie intentionally attacking)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anareth View Post
Yes, but they can thrash around when in pain without regard to humans present.

And T Mynn--there simply isn't enough numbweed in the world.
Anneli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 19 2008, 05:36 PM   #5
T'mynn
Inactive
 
T'mynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere. Maybe Pern.:-)
Gender: F
Fan of: All books
Now Reading: Chronicles of Pern
Default Re: Avalyn, Weyrwoman of Pern

It's a differant term from where I'm from is a term of affection for a beloved creature.

I call my cats "Wee' beasties' or"babies" 'Fuzzies "Maybe four legged non-flying firelizards" :-D " etc.
T'mynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20 2008, 09:42 AM   #6
Shalyn
Inactive
 
Shalyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Loo-a-vull / Luhvuhl / Loo-ih-ville / Loo-a-ville / Looeyville / Lewisville Oh, Heck. Kentuckiana.
Gender: F
Fan of: Dragonflight
Default Re: Avalyn, Weyrwoman of Pern

Quote:
Originally Posted by T Mynn Enz View Post
It's a differant term from where I'm from is a term of affection for a beloved creature.

I call my cats "Wee' beasties' or"babies" 'Fuzzies "Maybe four legged non-flying firelizards" :-D " etc.
I don't think Anneli meant that "beastie" wasn't a term of endearment. Since a dragon is a sentient creature, I, too, balk at calling them "beastie". A firelizard, maybe.

But would you call a baby, or a toddler, a beastie?

A dragon seems to be sentient enough to have his/her own thoughts and actions, but due to their dependence on humanity to live, they don't have their own culture.
Shalyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20 2008, 03:58 PM   #7
Anneli
Weyrwoman
 
Anneli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Shropshire
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern!
Now Reading: Dragonflight
Default Re: Avalyn, Weyrwoman of Pern

Shalyn's put it much better than I did, thanks I have no problem with describing a beloved horse, dog, cat, fire-lizard etc affectionately as a "beastie". But to me it simply doesn't seem an appropriate term to use for a sentient being such as a dragon.
Anneli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 20 2008, 09:29 PM   #8
T'mynn
Inactive
 
T'mynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere. Maybe Pern.:-)
Gender: F
Fan of: All books
Now Reading: Chronicles of Pern
Default Re: Avalyn, Weyrwoman of Pern

I never stated to call a dragon a 'beastie'. Most logicaly by his or her proper name or nick name IF the dragon offers aid Nick name. I tend to call my kitties "Sweetie, sweetheart' , etc. more than likelycalling them by name. I talk to them as if they were people, not a dog, or cat. I found out the cats and dog DO understand regualr english(or at least when I'm talking to them), and do respond conversing with them.
T'mynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 04:07 PM   #9
Anneli
Weyrwoman
 
Anneli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Shropshire
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern!
Now Reading: Dragonflight
Default Re: Avalyn, Weyrwoman of Pern

Without wanting to be pedantic, I really have to call you on this one


Quote:
Originally Posted by T Mynn Enz View Post
I never stated to call a dragon a 'beastie'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T Mynn Enz View Post
Oy, I'd hate to see how they'd set a Dragon's wing, considering they'd require a lot of numbweed to ease his/er pain. What's to keep the poor beastie from bitting the humans trying to help them?
So if that's not calling a dragon a "beastie", what is?
Anneli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 05:13 PM   #10
GinnyStar
Dolphineer
Craftmaster
 
GinnyStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wausau, WI USA, Central Standard Time
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern, other SF works
Now Reading: Dragonback Bargain
Default Re: Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

That, could also depend on the dragon in question, for some of them don't like a nickname, or take to one well. Also, if the dragon's rider is not hurt he/she could help, or tried his/her best not to add to the pain the dragon is feeling too, or maybe a wyermate? I am thinking of Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern, here A'dan helped out when the help was needed, also another idea can any dragon outside of a queen/gold help control the pain, for when the senior queen from High Reaches got hurt, most of the dragons' came and helped to hold her still! Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern once more.

Sorry if my posting is off, I have a few things on my mind right now!
__________________
Lover s s, s and friends
Lover of and beads,
http://www.change.org/profiles/GinnyStar
Dragoncave GinnyStar2
Jellied Dragons
Lair of Dragons
http://dragcave.net/user/GinnyStar2
Thanks! Others: None at this time
WIP http://archiveofourown.org/works/252259
http://www.daisy.org/learning-difficulties
GinnyStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 06:30 PM   #11
Spaceman Spiff
Inactive
 
Spaceman Spiff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Gender: M
Fan of: PERN!!!
Now Reading: Lord of the Rings
Default Re: Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

Well, a dragonet can maul and even inadvertently kill a candidate, so why could an injured dragon not inadvertently kill someone who is trying to help? No dragon would intentionally attack a person, but it seems like thrashing/biting is more of a reflex than conscious attack. Like a dog who is very calm and docile who would never attack anyone, but may reflexively lash out and bite if suddenly woken.
Spaceman Spiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 07:26 PM   #12
Anareth
Journeywoman Healer
 
Anareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here and There
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern, Ship Series
Now Reading: Girl Genius (read it!)
Default Re: Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

Well, in this particular situation (long resolved but whatever) the rider (the Weyrleader, actually) tried to help, and the Weyrwoman's queen tried to help. But sometimes you have involuntary responses to pain. (Also bear in mind we weren't trying to be NICE to these characters, after all.)
Anareth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 08:44 PM   #13
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

T Mynn Enz - I strongly recommend you read the book "Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern" as it deals with dragon healing more than any other Pern book. They don't actually set a bone in a dragon's wing, but they do repair at least one in which the sail (the flesh stretched between the bones) has been thoroughly shredded by Thred, and they are literally piecing the shreds together, sewing linen around the wing to hold it all in place, and hoping for the best.
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 09:23 PM   #14
Rissa
Inactive
 
Rissa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Gender: F
Fan of: Fantasy
Now Reading: Dragonlovers Guide to Pern
Default Re: Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

I agree about a dragon lashing out in pain, when they didnt mean to attack. Even a hurt person can lash out, due to the pain. But im suprised that they didnt have somthing that could temprarily knock out their patient...like Either..when they had to deal with serious wounds.
Rissa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 21 2008, 10:43 PM   #15
T'mynn
Inactive
 
T'mynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere. Maybe Pern.:-)
Gender: F
Fan of: All books
Now Reading: Chronicles of Pern
Default Re: Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

I'd just finished reading a fanfic authored by a MoM member of a dragonett acidently taking off a boy's hand while he was helping the dragon's partner feed him at the Sands.
All I can say to that is YOUCH!(Ok more than a youch.)

As for a dragon and borken bones, I'd be feeling for them for sure. Seeing as I'd broken my toe at it's base and another time fractured a vertebre or two in my back. THAT freakin' hurts.
So I can truly imagine how a much larger being being in pain over a broken foot/hand bone. My fisrt instinct would be to do what I could to sooth he/her pain. I never liked witnessing any being in pain.
T'mynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30 2008, 10:48 PM   #16
Zanthra
Inactive
 
Join Date: Jun 2008

Default Re: Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

The dragons of the pern universe are BIG. Not like elephant big, but Semi truck big. They are bigger than any nonaquatic animal on earth, ever, and ones like Ramoth are possibly bigger than the biggst aquatic animals.

In Moreta there is mention of an ability for other dragons to telepathically restrain other dragons. It is not clear how this works. I have three hypothesies:

1) Telekenisis. It is not actually too much of a stretch. Dragons have been using telekenisis for ages to fly, they could use it instinctively to hold another dragon who is injured.

2) A queen may also be able to impose it's will on other dragons. As is demonstrated at various other times in the series. Willing the other dragon to hold still seems the most likely to me.

3) Supression of pain and fear. The last possibility is that the queen is able to supress the fear and pain, and let the dragon hold still by itself. Although the two dragons did not seem to be any more aware or lucid than before.


As far as setting a wing bone goes, assuming that the afforementioned methods are not conidered sufficient one should remember you have a huge number of equally large creatures at your disposal. It may not be entirely dignified to the dragon, but having other dragons (preferably a good friend or weyrmate) hold the dragons head, limbs, or body while the wing is set is an option.
Zanthra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sep 30 2008, 10:55 PM   #17
T'mynn
Inactive
 
T'mynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere. Maybe Pern.:-)
Gender: F
Fan of: All books
Now Reading: Chronicles of Pern
Default Re: Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

I'd say ignity be flushed, setting the bone is far more important that looking pretty.;-) Espcially if the injury was gotten while doing something honourable like Thread fighting.
T'mynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1 2008, 01:01 AM   #18
Dragongirl
.:. Baroness von Imp .:.
Weyrling
 
Dragongirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Gender: F
Fan of: I do not 'fan'. I obsess.
Now Reading: The Book of Lost Things - John Connelly.
Default Re: Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

I daresay, if the dragon needs something like that treated, they would no doubt call a queen to help. In fact, I remember reading Moreta, and they did call another queen to help, and she also called like, half of the Weyr's dragons to help keep the injured dragon down while her wounds were treated.

I know, in a Weyr I once played in, the Weyrleader's bronze was injured quite badly and thrashing about something horrible, and someone did suggest something similar, stating that they did it in Moreta. The combined mental strength of the other dragons stilled him enough for the healers to work safely, or something.

Sort of like a force of mind/s over matter scenario, I guess?
__________________
Paired with Calenlily. Woo, I has a stalker! *heart*

Those who seek to create war are mongrels and fools, but the blood they spill as a result is never meaningless. - Lucrezia Noin

When someone is grieving for what they've lost, you can't really say you know how they feel, or how they should handle things. Because even if you've lost too, everyone grieves differently. Anyone who says otherwise are presumptuous idiots.-Hayley (My friend can be an astonishing wealth of wisdom)
Dragongirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1 2008, 11:43 PM   #19
T'mynn
Inactive
 
T'mynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Anywhere, Everywhere. Maybe Pern.:-)
Gender: F
Fan of: All books
Now Reading: Chronicles of Pern
Default Re: Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

Some part of the natural 'herd/flock' insticnt the firelizards have for survival but amplified of course through the genetic manipulations and such? So firelizards exhibit the same behaviour? Or some like it?
T'mynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 2 2008, 12:14 PM   #20
granath
Talent
Tower Prime
 
granath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Proud Mom!
Gender: F
Fan of: Afra Lyon
Now Reading: PiF
Default Re: Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

I don't think so. But then, I expect that a firelizard in unbearable pain would just go between and never return. It's possible a dragon, especially a chromatic, would do the same, at the very least if his or her rider was knocked unconscious, and in a deep enough coma that the dragon thought the rider was dead.
__________________
Decaf coffee is an oxymoron. Instant coffee is an abomination. Give me the real thing and nobody gets hurt.
"Do. Or do not. There is no try" -- Yoda
VP of the Afra Lyon fan club!
granath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 4 2008, 01:43 AM   #21
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: Dragons in Pain and how to describe them

I'm pretty sure that in MoP there were dragons whose riders were so out of it that their dragons went between in confusion
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

ds and characters based on Anne McCaffrey’s fiction are copyright © Anne McCaffrey 1967-2008, all rights reserved, and used bA Meeting of Minds forum owned by Cheryl B. Miller.
All references to worly permission of the author.