A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum  

Go Back   A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum > The Anne McCaffrey Collection > Dragonriders of Pern
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Apr 18 2005, 07:23 PM   #1
Gilluin
Member
Welladay Whale
 
Gilluin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Gender: M
Default Earth

What do you think is happening on earth at the time of the 9th pass on Pern? We have hints of what might be happening in Cronicals. Do you think that Kenjo's desendants will ever remember the planet? Is earth and its other colonies exitinct smoking embers? I mean someone on earth might get an idea to move the red star themselves or extrimate thread from the orrt cloud. I am intrested to find out what everyone elses thoughts are on this subject.
Gilluin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18 2005, 11:37 PM   #2
Spaceman Spiff
Inactive
 
Spaceman Spiff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Gender: M
Fan of: PERN!!!
Now Reading: Lord of the Rings
Default Re: Earth

I think, if people on earth haven't already destroyed themselves totally, that it's a wrecked, polluted, war-torn planet populated by refugees and mutants (been watching futurama too much, hehe). Kenjo's family was so terrified of Pern and Thread that they probably didn't talk much of it and eventually became entirely forgotten. But no-one could ever return for any reason, because the Rukbat system was interdicted, denying any access to it.
Spaceman Spiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19 2005, 03:00 PM   #3
c_ris
Journeyman Harper Roedin
Wing Second
 
c_ris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Great Britain
Gender: M
Fan of: the Dragonriders of Pern!
Now Reading: The Elder Gods - Eddings
Default Re: Earth

Maybe the Nathis have regrouped and attacked again!!!

And its unlikely that any of the descendants of those rescued in 'Rescue Run' woud remeber that Pern even existed! After all, it was debated as to whether there had been one crossing or two even in the Sixth Pass!!!
__________________
Roedin Of Pern

"When a harper is silenced, all men should listen harder." AtWoP
c_ris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19 2005, 04:52 PM   #4
edith
Dragonrider


Weyrwoman
 
edith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Delft
Gender: F
Fan of: Most of them :)
Now Reading: Don't You Have Time To Think- RP Feynman
Default Re: Earth

the only way anyone would get there is by accident- a ship getting lost or broken, and then they'd stay as little as possible-and if they saw thread they'd stay away. i get the feeling you'd have to be desperate though!
edith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19 2005, 06:03 PM   #5
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: Earth

Think back... when you were a kid, and the grownups told you "Don't go to the *insert forbidden place here* or else!" Someone always went there anyway...
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19 2005, 08:08 PM   #6
Anareth
Journeywoman Healer
 
Anareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here and There
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern, Ship Series
Now Reading: Girl Genius (read it!)
Default Re: Earth

Okay, no one take this the wrong way as it's not directed at anyone here (or this site) in particular, but...why, whenever the idea of "What's Earth like" is brought up in reference to Pern, the conscensus is it must be some sort of war-ravaged cesspool? Because of the Nathi wars? Which must have been over well before the Pern colonists left? That's a bit like arguing Hiroshima should still be a nuclear wasteland. (It's perfectly fine, btw.) Earth apparently still had enough green space for there to be tinkers in Ireland, complete with horses. (Sean had one, after all.) There were enough animals to keep a vet (Red) in business. Obviously the Nathi wars hadn't reduced it to ruin, and there's obviously enough comfortable, nice civilsation for people like Avril to want to go back. There's no indication that anything's wrong in "Rescue Run." Basically, nothing it indicate that Earth isn't, while highly industrialized compared to Pern, just fine, thanks. There was a war, but it's over, and while some vets may be traumatized, others have gotten on with their lives, and still others just want to enjoy an obscure old age.

Did it ever occur to anyone that the Pern colonists were basically retired war vets (like Emily, Kenjo and Paul), back-to-naturists (which we've had for more than a century here already) and social misfits? Meaning just because THEY didn't like Earth, doesn't mean it's some disaster area. Their types have always existed, and can't exactly be considered unbiased in judging the society they left. And even accounting for that, they don't sound like they're fleeing anything post-Apocalyptic, just a bit cramped.
Anareth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19 2005, 08:39 PM   #7
Larra Dragonrider
Inactive
 
Larra Dragonrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On PERN...
Gender: F
Default Re: Earth

that's not nessasarily true, anareth. yes, earth had the little green patches of life when sean, sorka, etc left. but they said that these were people who were having there morals (values? ethics? i get the words mixed up) pressed becase of the state earth had been in. for someone who cares as much as red does(did) it would be horrible to se animals replaced by heartless machines, and thier habitats and species die of pollution poisoning. you think they'd want to go somewhere to escape that.
Larra Dragonrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 19 2005, 11:22 PM   #8
Anareth
Journeywoman Healer
 
Anareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here and There
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern, Ship Series
Now Reading: Girl Genius (read it!)
Default Re: Earth

Uh...again, maybe I'm missing something in Dragonsdawn, but I don't recall anyone saying that the pollution was destroying everything, like one of those stupid videos they made back in the '90s (like that moronic "Ted Danson's Help Save Planet Earth" I had to watch in high school, according to which by now we should all need radiation suits to play outside.) And of course animals are replaced by machines--if Pern starts 5000 years into our future, duh. They already have been in the modern world, because machines are more efficient. If anything the idea of treking around in horse-drawn wagons speaks to a severe sort of technophobia. Arguing that they HAD to leave because the Earth was just uninhabitable is like saying the Amish should pack up and leave the country because roads are dominated by cars now (note: this is not an excuse to harass the Amish, and please, slow down to pass buggies, people!) I mean, they could live out in the middle of nowhere and avoid encountering a world they think is corrupt, but they deal. (I know, I live around many of them back home.)

Basically, the people on the colony ships strike me as either malcontents (tinkers, Gypsies, Tauregs, etc.) who are outright refusing to conform to the social reality around them, and people who really are just general misfits like Tarvi (who's weird even by colony standards), plus a few who want the ultimate retirement village and are willing to toss around some utopia trappings (futile at the outset, even before Thread, as any 'ideal' society will inevitably fail to be ideal because the universe is not an ideal system nor designed to support them) to get the peace and quiet they want. I don't see any indication that the Earth is irredeemably uninhabitable to the socially-adjusted. People stuck yearning for the 'good old days', on the other hand, apparently wanted the pastoral ideal without realizing that one way or another nature is going to bite you in the butt when you try for it.
Anareth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20 2005, 02:22 AM   #9
Hans
Master Archivist
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern!
Default Re: Earth

I have to agree with Anareth. Though there is mention of the Nathi wars and even of some sort of (religious) Health Life or something movement there is no indication that Earth is a smoldering heap although I grant it IS possible, no likely, that they are still recovering from consequences from the Nathi wars. That is mentioned nowhere as far as I know but we get the impression that the last battles (of which is spoken mostly in reference of what Paul, Emily and Sallah did) are not that long ago. Those battles were never mentioned as being close to Earth though.

Remember people on other planets lived underground for a long time; they might have chosen to do so on Earth, too.
True, a goodly number of the colonists were probably soldiers or at least people who fought in the Nathi wars (like Paul, Zi, etc.). I do think, however, that the farmer type (the most wanted on Pern) was by far outnumbering the group that joined the Pern Colonization because they had enough of war.

OK, "leafed" through Dragonsdawn and the thing that struck me was the number of times there is mention of "nice", "green" earth (observations by Sallah for instance) which makes it hard to believe they left is completely destroyed. Tech stuff, genotypes, material of all sorts seem to have been available at earth when the colonists left; so no shortage there (either).
Another sentence caught my eye: "Colonizing had seemed like a good idea back on Earth when the excitement of the Nathi war had died down" now that doesn't read as a planet in ruins eh?

Hmm, maybe more on this later as I can't find all references in Dragonsdawn I seem to remember.
__________________
Hans, also known as Elrhan, Master Archivist

Visit The Pern Museum & Archives for all your Pern and Anne McCaffrey News and Resources!
The Pern Museum & Archives is the home of the Pern Encyclopedia and the Pern Bloodlines.
Hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20 2005, 03:30 AM   #10
edith
Dragonrider


Weyrwoman
 
edith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Delft
Gender: F
Fan of: Most of them :)
Now Reading: Don't You Have Time To Think- RP Feynman
Default Re: Earth

peace is the best time to expand- it would be stupid setting up a colony during a war.
If they had ben a wartime colony they would be a group off illprepared refugees. Not a mix of involuntarily retired warriors, wanderers and general folks.
edith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20 2005, 05:46 AM   #11
c_ris
Journeyman Harper Roedin
Wing Second
 
c_ris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Great Britain
Gender: M
Fan of: the Dragonriders of Pern!
Now Reading: The Elder Gods - Eddings
Default Re: Earth

It is perfectly possible. But just as likely that Earth has been destroyed in one way or another. We obviously do not know.
__________________
Roedin Of Pern

"When a harper is silenced, all men should listen harder." AtWoP
c_ris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20 2005, 07:41 AM   #12
Hans
Master Archivist
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern!
Default Re: Earth

Wrong C_ris, we do know! If Earth was destroyed it must have been a long time ago (and that clearly isn't possibly according many references to the Nathi war). A destroyed Earth will not have had the resources to outfit the Pern colonyship (let alome who know how many others) and would not have had the resources available that those colonists took with them.

Read my post and Dragonsdawn; after that I think no one can say that Earth is destroyed. Suffered heavily possibly, but rebuilt at least and I personally get the impression that the heavy fighting has been done at Alpha Centauri and Cygnus!
__________________
Hans, also known as Elrhan, Master Archivist

Visit The Pern Museum & Archives for all your Pern and Anne McCaffrey News and Resources!
The Pern Museum & Archives is the home of the Pern Encyclopedia and the Pern Bloodlines.
Hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20 2005, 07:44 AM   #13
edith
Dragonrider


Weyrwoman
 
edith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Delft
Gender: F
Fan of: Most of them :)
Now Reading: Don't You Have Time To Think- RP Feynman
Default Re: Earth

I think C_ris means in the 2500 yrs between then and 9th pass!
edith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20 2005, 09:22 AM   #14
c_ris
Journeyman Harper Roedin
Wing Second
 
c_ris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Great Britain
Gender: M
Fan of: the Dragonriders of Pern!
Now Reading: The Elder Gods - Eddings
Default Re: Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by edith
I think C_ris means in the 2500 yrs between then and 9th pass!
That is what I meant! (as that is what the thread is concerning).

Obviously Earth was still livable on when the colonists left, though it must have been on the way, as the dolphins refer to Earth as the "sick ocean world" in 'The Dolphins Bell' (Chronicles, Corgi 1994, p27). And obviously still exists 60 or so years later, as 'Rescue Run' takes place. But in the next 2500 years or so, then we have no idea what could have happenned to Earth.
__________________
Roedin Of Pern

"When a harper is silenced, all men should listen harder." AtWoP
c_ris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 20 2005, 08:57 PM   #15
Anareth
Journeywoman Healer
 
Anareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here and There
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern, Ship Series
Now Reading: Girl Genius (read it!)
Default Re: Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by c_ris
That is what I meant! (as that is what the thread is concerning).

Obviously Earth was still livable on when the colonists left, though it must have been on the way, as the dolphins refer to Earth as the "sick ocean world" in 'The Dolphins Bell' (Chronicles, Corgi 1994, p27). And obviously still exists 60 or so years later, as 'Rescue Run' takes place. But in the next 2500 years or so, then we have no idea what could have happenned to Earth.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that it's LIKELY, as many posters seem to think, that Earth has ceased to exist or is a wasteland. Guess what: there's always been pollution. Rivers in the Western world used to actually be far worse than they are now. (China is another story, but they're a few decades behind industrially so it's to be expected.) It's possible that Earth is fine. It's possible it got smacked with an asteroid (something I'd actually consider more likely than humans (or aliens) rendering it uninhabitable.) Any one of thousands of scenarios are possible. The 'scorched Earth' theory that seems to be gospel among some Pern fans is no more likely, and given the evidence Hans presents, even somewhat less likely, than any other theory.
Anareth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21 2005, 03:18 AM   #16
edith
Dragonrider


Weyrwoman
 
edith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Delft
Gender: F
Fan of: Most of them :)
Now Reading: Don't You Have Time To Think- RP Feynman
Default Re: Earth

I don't know what to think on this issue!
If the earth is still there there must've been a serious lifestyle change from life today at least!
edith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21 2005, 01:43 PM   #17
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: Earth

I like to think of living conditions on Earth in "Pegasus in Flight" and "Decision at Doona". Earth was getting crowded. The majority live in little box apartments stacked and buried as high and low as possible to minimize space. What really gives me the shivers is the mention in "Decision at Doona" that there are only twelve Square Miles of open land left...
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21 2005, 03:57 PM   #18
Hans
Master Archivist
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern!
Default Re: Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by edith
I don't know what to think on this issue!
If the earth is still there there must've been a serious lifestyle change from life today at least!
What makes you say that Edith? Why do you think there must have been a serious lifestyle change?

I grant you that the Earth the Pern colonists left was different from our current society but given the fact that I think that the departure for Pern takes place far, far, far in the future, that is inevitable.
There are several references to Earths history and what happened to the planet prior to the Pern Colonists left and many are the references to Earths 20th century history in especially the early books/stories about Pern.
There is also a lot of evidence of centuries of colonization of at least several (probably many) other planets (which effectively addresses what Brenda's reamrk touches).
__________________
Hans, also known as Elrhan, Master Archivist

Visit The Pern Museum & Archives for all your Pern and Anne McCaffrey News and Resources!
The Pern Museum & Archives is the home of the Pern Encyclopedia and the Pern Bloodlines.
Hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 21 2005, 05:20 PM   #19
monkeysrule
Firelizard
Hatchling
 
monkeysrule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: High up a tree somewhere
Gender: F
Fan of: Monkeys
Now Reading: expensive textbooks!
Default Re: Earth

I think something might have happened that wiped out most of the human race (like a plague) and the people had to start from scratch like the Pernese did and begin human culture all over again. Therefore, the human life on Earth would be back to a high-tech society by the Present Pass on Pern.
monkeysrule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22 2005, 05:10 AM   #20
edith
Dragonrider


Weyrwoman
 
edith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Delft
Gender: F
Fan of: Most of them :)
Now Reading: Don't You Have Time To Think- RP Feynman
Default Re: Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans
What makes you say that Edith? Why do you think there must have been a serious lifestyle change?

I grant you that the Earth the Pern colonists left was different from our current society but given the fact that I think that the departure for Pern takes place far, far, far in the future, that is inevitable.
There are several references to Earths history and what happened to the planet prior to the Pern Colonists left and many are the references to Earths 20th century history in especially the early books/stories about Pern.
There is also a lot of evidence of centuries of colonization of at least several (probably many) other planets (which effectively addresses what Brenda's reamrk touches).
cos at the rate we're going the Earth ain't gonna be a nice place at all in a few short generations!
I've been doing a course on it recently and its pretty shocking! people are using more and more energy and want more and more things. In one of m y lectures the lecturer mentioned that the analogue shutdown- so everyone has to have all those little set top boxes that take up so much energy on stand by- here in the UK will cancel out the reductions we've made for the Kyoto agreement!
sorry for the rant- its quite shocking when you read about it in detail!
edith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22 2005, 07:48 AM   #21
Hans
Master Archivist
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern!
Default Re: Earth

Don't be sorry Edith, no problem. Thanks for the clarification!
__________________
Hans, also known as Elrhan, Master Archivist

Visit The Pern Museum & Archives for all your Pern and Anne McCaffrey News and Resources!
The Pern Museum & Archives is the home of the Pern Encyclopedia and the Pern Bloodlines.
Hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22 2005, 08:34 AM   #22
edith
Dragonrider


Weyrwoman
 
edith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Delft
Gender: F
Fan of: Most of them :)
Now Reading: Don't You Have Time To Think- RP Feynman
Default Re: Earth

its ok- I'm just in a bit of a ranting mood over energy at the mo- after I got over the depressed stage after the lecture!
edith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22 2005, 12:08 PM   #23
Spaceman Spiff
Inactive
 
Spaceman Spiff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Gender: M
Fan of: PERN!!!
Now Reading: Lord of the Rings
Default Re: Earth

Thats pretty much the reason for my answer above. Look at all the damage we've caused to the planet in this century alone, what more is going to happen in 5,000 years? Unless people find some way to repair their damage.
Spaceman Spiff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 23 2005, 02:49 AM   #24
Hans
Master Archivist
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern!
Default Re: Earth

Hey guys, this is SCIENCE fiction we're talking about. Who knows what mankind (well, a few prome examples of it) can come up with in the coming century?

What do you mean, optimist?
__________________
Hans, also known as Elrhan, Master Archivist

Visit The Pern Museum & Archives for all your Pern and Anne McCaffrey News and Resources!
The Pern Museum & Archives is the home of the Pern Encyclopedia and the Pern Bloodlines.
Hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 23 2005, 08:13 PM   #25
Anareth
Journeywoman Healer
 
Anareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here and There
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern, Ship Series
Now Reading: Girl Genius (read it!)
Default Re: Earth

*points up* What Hans said. Besides, who would have believed 30 years ago we could swim in Lake Erie or eat fish from a lot of US rivers? The Earth is a lot more resiliant than most people give it credit for, plus humans are fairly ingenious. (Did I spell that right? I think I spelled that wrong. *sigh*)
Anareth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 24 2005, 05:25 AM   #26
Hans
Master Archivist
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern!
Default Re: Earth

never mind Anareth, we still like you
__________________
Hans, also known as Elrhan, Master Archivist

Visit The Pern Museum & Archives for all your Pern and Anne McCaffrey News and Resources!
The Pern Museum & Archives is the home of the Pern Encyclopedia and the Pern Bloodlines.
Hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 24 2005, 04:40 PM   #27
Anareth
Journeywoman Healer
 
Anareth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Here and There
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern, Ship Series
Now Reading: Girl Genius (read it!)
Default Re: Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans
never mind Anareth, we still like you
lol, even when I'm posting at about 1am my time and my brain is foggy?
Anareth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 24 2005, 04:42 PM   #28
edith
Dragonrider


Weyrwoman
 
edith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Delft
Gender: F
Fan of: Most of them :)
Now Reading: Don't You Have Time To Think- RP Feynman
Default Re: Earth

don't worry!
Your brain foggy? nah! never!
edith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 24 2005, 05:08 PM   #29
Kath
Starsmith


Weyrwoman
 
Kath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oop North

Fan of: Moreta
Default Re: Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by edith
In one of m y lectures the lecturer mentioned that the analogue shutdown- so everyone has to have all those little set top boxes that take up so much energy on stand by- here in the UK will cancel out the reductions we've made for the Kyoto agreement!
sorry for the rant- its quite shocking when you read about it in detail!
Which is why we turn off our box while we're at work and overnight - as well as being bad for the environment, it's bad for our electricity bill!!
Kath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 24 2005, 05:11 PM   #30
edith
Dragonrider


Weyrwoman
 
edith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Delft
Gender: F
Fan of: Most of them :)
Now Reading: Don't You Have Time To Think- RP Feynman
Default Re: Earth

we do to at home but alot of people don't now electronics don't blow up as often! apparantly!
edith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 25 2005, 11:58 AM   #31
Ryuu
Evil Gold Fiend Dragon
 
Ryuu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Back in the USSA
Gender: M
Default Re: Earth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anareth
lol, even when I'm posting at about 1am my time and my brain is foggy?
that's not "fog"---it's "smog"
Ryuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Apr 26 2005, 11:09 AM   #32
D'ana
Inactive
 
D'ana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the peoples republic of amherst MA
Gender: F
Default Re: Earth

smog...:snort: haha!! nice one!
D'ana is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What About Earth Sandi Freedom 7 Apr 8 2010 01:10 AM
Dragonriders on Earth??? K'dy Dragonriders of Pern 43 Jul 9 2009 07:06 AM
Musical styles brought from Earth Multi-Facets Dragonriders of Pern 33 Feb 17 2008 03:47 AM
Possible Jump to Earth? Maduk Dragonriders of Pern 50 Nov 14 2006 04:09 PM
Farming with Earth lifeforms Sandi Freedom 5 Jul 7 2005 10:40 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

A Meeting of Minds forum owned by Cheryl B. Miller.
All references to worlds and characters based on Anne McCaffrey’s fiction are copyright © Anne McCaffrey 1967-2008, all rights reserved, and used by permission of the author.