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Old Dec 6 2010, 03:05 PM   #1
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Default Federation?

I haven't read the earlier-set books in awhile, and now I find myself needing to know what the alliance of human planets is called. Confederacy? Federation? Help, guys!
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Old Dec 6 2010, 09:00 PM   #2
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Federated Sentient Planets, FSP for short.
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Old Dec 6 2010, 11:32 PM   #3
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However, I THINK, it has been named slightly differently in another place
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Old Dec 7 2010, 09:32 AM   #4
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Federated Sentient Planets, FSP for short.
Thanks! I'm contemplating a mini-crossover between Star Trek and Pern, and wondered if the crossing character from Pern would recognize the term "Federation."
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Old Dec 7 2010, 08:59 PM   #5
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Thanks! I'm contemplating a mini-crossover between Star Trek and Pern, and wondered if the crossing character from Pern would recognize the term "Federation."
In response to the Star Trek, the only ship that had sleep tanks on it was the SS Botnay Bay from the first season of Star Trek TV series and I think the USS Enterprise would be able to swing over to Pern in a few days if not weeks to rescue the colonists from Threads not years like the Amherst/Erica combo took arrive at Pern. However, Im not sure if the Prime Directive would apply since the colonists were from the "Federation" (FSP). If the crossover story is set after 9th pass Pern then the people on Pern would have known about the FSP from the AVIS files and maybe the FSP is the same thing since the Federation is a collective of planets or maybe the ST Federation is the future version of FSP and could have an exploration team land on Pern using cloaking technology to observe them?
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Old Dec 8 2010, 08:12 PM   #6
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The crossover is being written to a prompt involving the filler's choice of characters from other fandoms being randomly transported to the Enterprise via transporter malfunction. So while some of the points you brought up don't apply to the story, I shall certainly try to include the relevant ones. Thanks, Biotrooper!
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Old Dec 16 2010, 07:30 PM   #7
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This sounds interesting…
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Old Dec 17 2010, 11:31 AM   #8
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Definitely. Considering I love both Pern and Star Trek, I will most definitely have to read it.
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Old Dec 5 2014, 03:20 AM   #9
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A funny thing happened with me.
When I read the novels of the Dinosaur Planets, I met there the same federation as a series of Pern. Only because of the translation I did not realize that this exact same Federation. In the phrase "Federated Sentient Planets" "Sentient" was translated as:
Федерация Разумных Планет - as "sensible / reasonable" in Pern and
Федерация Цивилизованных Планет - as "civilization" in the world of dinosaurs
At first I thought it was a coincidence. But in the novels of the Planet Pirates (one world to the Dinosaur Planets) was translated as the Федерация Обитаемых Планет - "inhabited / habitable". Then I realized it was not a coincidence, but a different translation.
I checked the spelling in the original text - and it was true. Now I'm wondering whether there FSP in other worlds Anne and if they can be represented as one and the same structure, for example, to write the crossover between the different worlds. What chronology relative to each other then they should be?
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Old Dec 11 2014, 03:34 PM   #10
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She used a similar organization in several different series, but officially there are no connections between any of them. So if you are going to write crossover fanfic, you'll have to start from scratch!
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Old Dec 12 2014, 06:37 AM   #11
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She always maintained they were different universes, but that mankind tends to come up with similar grand names.

Shame 'cos I've got a lovely fanfic planned that links virtually all Anne's story lines.
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Old Dec 12 2014, 04:34 PM   #12
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Do it.

After all, if you can do Crossovers with Star Trek and Babylon 5, there's no reason to do others.
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Old Dec 13 2014, 11:22 AM   #13
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I will (between all the writing for Uni).
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Old Dec 13 2014, 05:33 PM   #14
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.
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Old Dec 13 2014, 09:48 PM   #15
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The only two series I can think of that have actual contact with Earth are the Pegasus/Tower books and the Doona books. Those would be harder to incorporate, I would think. The rest wouldn't be too bad, as long as you don't look at any of the history too closely!
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Old Dec 14 2014, 05:25 PM   #16
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I do remember running across a Pern/Talent Crossover once, but I can't remember where I saw it.
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Old Dec 15 2014, 02:25 PM   #17
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I do remember running across a Pern/Talent Crossover once, but I can't remember where I saw it.
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Old Dec 15 2014, 06:22 PM   #18
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Yup, that's the one.
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Old Dec 15 2014, 07:48 PM   #19
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A Star Trek/Pern crossover sounds interesting indeed. Lol, I wonder what the crew would make of meeting Pern's draconic lifeforms?

Speaking of crossovers, have any of you ever read the Harry Potter/Pern crossover series: "The Queen Who Fell to Earth" by Bobmin356 and his wife Alyx? Should probably mention that they're rated "M" for "Mature", but that shouldn't be a problem, right? I found them to be pretty good stories.

Book 1: The Queen who fell to Earth

Book 2: On the Wings of Dragons

Book 3: Beneath Sovereign Skies
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Old Dec 17 2014, 05:54 PM   #20
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Out of curiosity, I went looking on FF.Net

Found

Lost Colony A TOS Crossover
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Old Mar 11 2015, 06:41 PM   #21
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Thanks! I'm contemplating a mini-crossover between Star Trek and Pern, and wondered if the crossing character from Pern would recognize the term "Federation."
They are in totally different universes and something that Anne would discourage strongly. Remember that the colonists wanted to get away from Earth and all its problems. I could see a crossover in the way that Pern is part of a holodeck program, much as they would often bring up Sherlock Holmes books. Just cant see Star Trek and Pern mixing.
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Old Mar 12 2015, 08:07 PM   #22
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They are in totally different universes and something that Anne would discourage strongly. Remember that the colonists wanted to get away from Earth and all its problems. I could see a crossover in the way that Pern is part of a holodeck program, much as they would often bring up Sherlock Holmes books. Just cant see Star Trek and Pern mixing.
It's called "crossover fan fic." Doesn't matter whether Anne would have approved or not (Gene Roddenbery probably wouldn't have, either.) As long as no one makes money off it, the original creator's opinion of a fan fic's plausibility is beside the point.
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Old Mar 13 2015, 12:35 PM   #23
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They are in totally different universes and something that Anne would discourage strongly. Remember that the colonists wanted to get away from Earth and all its problems. I could see a crossover in the way that Pern is part of a holodeck program, much as they would often bring up Sherlock Holmes books. Just cant see Star Trek and Pern mixing.
Are you aware that Anne herself crossed over the Ship, Doona and Crystal Singer books?

All her own worlds, of course, but if you just look at the first books in each series, they're no more connected than any other random selection of distinct fictional universes.
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Old Mar 13 2015, 11:03 PM   #24
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Are you aware that Anne herself crossed over the Ship, Doona and Crystal Singer books?

All her own worlds, of course, but if you just look at the first books in each series, they're no more connected than any other random selection of distinct fictional universes.
Yes I am aware, but the three series are more interconnected then Star trek and Pern. I can't imagine such an "abomination"
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Old Mar 14 2015, 12:40 AM   #25
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Yes I am aware, but the three series are more interconnected then Star trek and Pern. I can't imagine such an "abomination"
Then you're not as imaginative as the typical fan fic writer. *shrug* People cross over many things (there's a fic whose name I forget at the moment but I recall it wasn't finished that crossed over the Ship and Pern 'verses with the characters from SwSearched landing on Pern. It was good.) At Archive of Our Own, probably the most common fic on the Pern page is "X Fictional Universe On Pern" because people kind of naturally want to write their favorite other characters as dragonriders. I've never done it, but I've mentally toyed with "Girl Genius on Pern" (Agatha would TOTALLY ride a gold, and if her wannabe suitors wound up on bronze that solves that love quadrangle quite neatly!)
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Old Mar 14 2015, 02:22 AM   #26
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*shrug* People cross over many things
Yeah, those Harry Potter x Pern fics I posted links too? It takes place on Earth, during an alternate version of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire and beyond. How Pern fits in is that the 10 breeds of dragons from the wizarding world are all descended from a queen dragon of Pern (thus the title The Queen Who Fell to Earth).

The queen was heavy with eggs when her rider was killed, so she went Between, but somehow came out in the skies of ancient Earth, during a time of mammoths. She laid a huge clutch, and was forced to will the hatchlings to survive without riders as there were no humans near to Impress. Survive they did, and live on.

But the dragons have lived so long without riders that they've reverted to witless beasts. Trapped in their own minds. Harry accidentally Impresses a hatchling, the first human of Earth to do so, and in doing that, reawakens the dragon's memories and frees them from their witless state. The rest of that story deals with him trying to protect the dragons and establish Weyrs to renew the dragon/rider bounds the dragons yearn for again.

The other two stories in the series continue the adventures of Harry and his Dragonriders, as they struggle to find their place and gain acceptance in the world.
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Old Mar 14 2015, 06:55 PM   #27
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Yeah, those Harry Potter x Pern fics I posted links too? It takes place on Earth, during an alternate version of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire and beyond. ...
And, unfortunately the third installment have been stuck at Chapter 14 since forever! (Updated: Oct 26, 2014 - Published: Apr 26, 2014)

Hope the author/authoress get their family problems resolved soon so they can complete the last episodes. I was tasked with finalizing my mother's estate, so can empathize.
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Old Mar 14 2015, 07:09 PM   #28
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And, unfortunately the third installment have been stuck at Chapter 14 since forever! (Updated: Oct 26, 2014 - Published: Apr 26, 2014)

Hope the author/authoress get their family problems resolved soon so they can complete the last episodes. I was tasked with finalizing my mother's estate, so can empathize.
I hope so too. Word is they're stuck in red tape and the people supposed to "help" with finalizing things are being slow just to be slow.
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Old Mar 15 2015, 09:05 AM   #29
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I hope so too. Word is they're stuck in red tape and the people supposed to "help" with finalizing things are being slow just to be slow.
I think we should find out where these miscreants live and send over a couple of Dragons to talk sense into them. It's bad enough having to grieve; it's worse having to wrestle with finances while doing so!
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Old Apr 29 2015, 08:16 PM   #30
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Yeah, those Harry Potter x Pern fics I posted links too? It takes place on Earth, during an alternate version of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire and beyond. How Pern fits in is that the 10 breeds of dragons from the wizarding world are all descended from a queen dragon of Pern (thus the title The Queen Who Fell to Earth).

The queen was heavy with eggs when her rider was killed, so she went Between, but somehow came out in the skies of ancient Earth, during a time of mammoths. She laid a huge clutch, and was forced to will the hatchlings to survive without riders as there were no humans near to Impress. Survive they did, and live on.

But the dragons have lived so long without riders that they've reverted to witless beasts. Trapped in their own minds. Harry accidentally Impresses a hatchling, the first human of Earth to do so, and in doing that, reawakens the dragon's memories and frees them from their witless state. The rest of that story deals with him trying to protect the dragons and establish Weyrs to renew the dragon/rider bounds the dragons yearn for again.

The other two stories in the series continue the adventures of Harry and his Dragonriders, as they struggle to find their place and gain acceptance in the world.
Why mix the dark world of Harry Potter and the bright world of Pern.

The Dragons die if they do not find a Human to impress. Kitty Ping programed them to so. The Dragons can not leave the Rukbat system the journey between is to far and would go beyond the 15min limit the dragon can hold its breath.
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Old Apr 29 2015, 10:37 PM   #31
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Why mix the dark world of Harry Potter and the bright world of Pern.

The Dragons die if they do not find a Human to impress. Kitty Ping programed them to so. The Dragons can not leave the Rukbat system the journey between is to far and would go beyond the 15min limit the dragon can hold its breath.
Well, the stories aren't for everybody, but I enjoyed them, myself.

At least ten of the hatchlings in the clutch did die when they realized there were no riders for them, they jumped Between. But their mother spoke to the others and explained the situation, and that the only way for them to survive was to work together. Her will over them was so strong that it kept them in that place until her death. They didn't leave that place for better weyrs until after her death when they were fully grown. Over time, they evolved and adapted to Earth, and forgot their Pernese abilities, but they did gain magic, which they used on instinct. Only when Harry Impressed did they remember their Pernese gifts, and mastered their magical abilities.

As for how the queen survived her jump, she almost didn't. By the time she recovered enough to try another jump, she was too far along in her pregnancy to fly. Later in the third book, when Harry and his riders and several scientists are trying to figure out how she made the jump, and if the timeline for Pern would now be screwed up because of it, they concluded that she hadn't really jumped back in time all the way from Pern. She would never have made that. They concluded that instead, she jumped from Pern in a parallel universe, and crossed over to their universe in Earth's past. Which would make Between a "null void" in between universes.
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Old May 1 2015, 04:09 PM   #32
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Why mix the dark world of Harry Potter and the bright world of Pern.
Because it's fun. That's really the only justification that's applicable or needed.

Honestly, I think you're misunderstanding the point of fanfic. It's not necessarily going to hew close to canon. It certainly can! But it doesn't have to. And either way, it has no impact whatsoever on the source material. Crossing over Pern and Harry Potter in fic doesn't change the Pern books at all.
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Old May 1 2015, 08:16 PM   #33
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Ah, yes, the bright world of Pern, where our introduction to the whole planet is a heroine hiding in filth after her entire family was brutally murdered, who was responsible for the death of at least one steward herself, and who manipulated a dragonrider into a duel to the death with the lord who had her family killed. Then she gets carried off the Weyr where she gets thrust into Impression, but not before watching said dragonet break a girl's spine and mutilate another.
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Old May 2 2015, 04:19 PM   #34
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Ah, yes, the bright world of Pern, where our introduction to the whole planet is a heroine hiding in filth after her entire family was brutally murdered, who was responsible for the death of at least one steward herself, and who manipulated a dragonrider into a duel to the death with the lord who had her family killed. Then she gets carried off the Weyr where she gets thrust into Impression, but not before watching said dragonet break a girl's spine and mutilate another.
Agreed, but the overall tone of Pern and Its dragons is hopeful. The overall tone of Harry Potter is dark, even the lighter stuff is tinged with dark themes. It is like Pern is a summer day at the beach and Harry Potter is dark night around Halloween.
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Old May 2 2015, 10:29 PM   #35
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...I really don't get shiny light and goodness from Anne's Pern. Especially not her best books, where, again, the first protagonist is a manipulator who's okay with killing people and we never really address that btw, a POV character in another book bleeds to death in space, and in probably the best stand-alone Pern book a huge chunk of the population, including our title heroine, dies, though in fairness Moreta was doomed by canon-we'd already established in Dsong/Dsinger that the historic Moreta died. Speaking of Dsong, we've got child abuse and deliberate intent to maim, then there's Ddrums, where Robinton tortures a character by withholding medical attention to manipulate him into naming an heir Robinton and Benden want. And of course there's the fact that character's a "villain' because he disagrees with the protagonist. There's F'lar's back to back knife fights, DQuest opens with F'nor getting stabbed, and includes him essentially date-raping Brekke (she does say "no" at first), and for them to get a 'happy ending' her dragon has to die and she has to be psychologically shattered, and the book ends with most of F'nor and Canth's skin burned off. F'lar spends much of DF forcing himself on Lessa after the mating flight, when he's not shaking her and yelling at her. In other books we get people mauled by big cats, Chalkin of Bitra basically running concentration camps, people being manually castrated as punishment, someone nearly freezing to death, incest (read "Rescue Run"), spacing, a psychopath stalking a girl (Thella and Aramina), someone trying to poison Robinton, constant references to suicide (including D'ram being talked out of it), Jaxom exercises his lordly rights by jumping Coranna (was that her name?) whether she wants sex or not....Yep, I can see how that's less grim than a book series where, despite people (logically, for plot reasons) dying, the hero, his love interest, his two best friends, and even their childhood antagonist and his family all survive to the end to live more or less happily ever after and triumph over terrible enemies explicitly via the power of various kinds of love. I'd say they're about equal except that Harry does fewer morally dubious things than F'lar, Lessa, and Jaxom.
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Old May 3 2015, 06:36 AM   #36
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...I really don't get shiny light and goodness from Anne's Pern. Especially not her best books, where, again, the first protagonist is a manipulator who's okay with killing people and we never really address that btw, a POV character in another book bleeds to death in space, and in probably the best stand-alone Pern book a huge chunk of the population, including our title heroine, dies, though in fairness Moreta was doomed by canon-we'd already established in Dsong/Dsinger that the historic Moreta died. Speaking of Dsong, we've got child abuse and deliberate intent to maim, then there's Ddrums, where Robinton tortures a character by withholding medical attention to manipulate him into naming an heir Robinton and Benden want. And of course there's the fact that character's a "villain' because he disagrees with the protagonist. There's F'lar's back to back knife fights, DQuest opens with F'nor getting stabbed, and includes him essentially date-raping Brekke (she does say "no" at first), and for them to get a 'happy ending' her dragon has to die and she has to be psychologically shattered, and the book ends with most of F'nor and Canth's skin burned off. F'lar spends much of DF forcing himself on Lessa after the mating flight, when he's not shaking her and yelling at her. In other books we get people mauled by big cats, Chalkin of Bitra basically running concentration camps, people being manually castrated as punishment, someone nearly freezing to death, incest (read "Rescue Run"), spacing, a psychopath stalking a girl (Thella and Aramina), someone trying to poison Robinton, constant references to suicide (including D'ram being talked out of it), Jaxom exercises his lordly rights by jumping Coranna (was that her name?) whether she wants sex or not....Yep, I can see how that's less grim than a book series where, despite people (logically, for plot reasons) dying, the hero, his love interest, his two best friends, and even their childhood antagonist and his family all survive to the end to live more or less happily ever after and triumph over terrible enemies explicitly via the power of various kinds of love. I'd say they're about equal except that Harry does fewer morally dubious things than F'lar, Lessa, and Jaxom.
I am not talking about actions of the characters I am talking about tone of the books. I am sorry but the tone of harry potter and the subject matter is very, very dark.
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Old May 3 2015, 05:09 PM   #37
Anareth
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...So characters doing objectively terrible things (and if they're 'good guys' NEVER GETTING CALLED ON IT) in books written for adults where the tone is not so much "we must save the world" as "we'll save the world our way and if you don't like it we'll stab you, exile you, or straight-up kill you and all villains are villains mostly because the plot says so, and at least one is possibly a legitimate psychopath [Thella again] with no justification for her actions beyond any other serial killers' and another [Chalkin] is mini-Hitler are "lighter" subject matter than wizards and witches written in a series where the starting books are aimed at eleven and twelve-year-olds. Where the villain has legit reasons to be twisted, the good guys rarely make decisions that are outright immoral without getting called on it (frequently by other good guys--Harry spends much of book 5 making poor choices but unlike Lessa or Jaxom he's repeatedly called on being wrong) and while characters die who might not 'deserve' it, the villain's defeated, the hero literally dies and comes back to life, and in the process is shown there is clearly SOME sort of afterlife so the characters dying doesn't seem AS horrible, and everyone lives happily ever after (more or less.) "The good guys are always right no matter what they do and the bad guys are bad guys just for disagreeing with the heroes even if there's no structural reason for it (hello, Dragonquest)" is lighter and softer than "Love is the most important thing, and even when it's dangerous, you need to stick with your friends, resorting to dark tactics is wrong (the Sectumsempra is NOT a good thing for Harry to do and he's called on this by the narrative) and you should do the right thing, even if that's something like 'risking your life to save your enemy.'" Probably that's the biggest intellectual disconnect here--a feudal society where knife-fight might makes right and you stab people who were once your allies and friends because PLOT HOLE REASONS! while you bicker over how to address the relentless killing organism that constantly threatens to wipe out your world is lighter and hopeful and a society where even fighting for your life if you're a decent person you show kindness and mercy is dark and grim.
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Old May 3 2015, 06:33 PM   #38
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Default Re: Federation?

To be fair, both series have their good and bad points. I happen to be a fan of both, and thought the fanfic offered a good mix of the two worlds and good storytelling.

But something tells me we're getting way off topic here... Would it be better to move the Harry Potter/Pern debate to a new thread?
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Old May 3 2015, 07:56 PM   #39
Gilluin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anareth View Post
...So characters doing objectively terrible things (and if they're 'good guys' NEVER GETTING CALLED ON IT) in books written for adults where the tone is not so much "we must save the world" as "we'll save the world our way and if you don't like it we'll stab you, exile you, or straight-up kill you and all villains are villains mostly because the plot says so, and at least one is possibly a legitimate psychopath [Thella again] with no justification for her actions beyond any other serial killers' and another [Chalkin] is mini-Hitler are "lighter" subject matter than wizards and witches written in a series where the starting books are aimed at eleven and twelve-year-olds. Where the villain has legit reasons to be twisted, the good guys rarely make decisions that are outright immoral without getting called on it (frequently by other good guys--Harry spends much of book 5 making poor choices but unlike Lessa or Jaxom he's repeatedly called on being wrong) and while characters die who might not 'deserve' it, the villain's defeated, the hero literally dies and comes back to life, and in the process is shown there is clearly SOME sort of afterlife so the characters dying doesn't seem AS horrible, and everyone lives happily ever after (more or less.) "The good guys are always right no matter what they do and the bad guys are bad guys just for disagreeing with the heroes even if there's no structural reason for it (hello, Dragonquest)" is lighter and softer than "Love is the most important thing, and even when it's dangerous, you need to stick with your friends, resorting to dark tactics is wrong (the Sectumsempra is NOT a good thing for Harry to do and he's called on this by the narrative) and you should do the right thing, even if that's something like 'risking your life to save your enemy.'" Probably that's the biggest intellectual disconnect here--a feudal society where knife-fight might makes right and you stab people who were once your allies and friends because PLOT HOLE REASONS! while you bicker over how to address the relentless killing organism that constantly threatens to wipe out your world is lighter and hopeful and a society where even fighting for your life if you're a decent person you show kindness and mercy is dark and grim.


So apearantly

1 dealing with the undead as in the cave
2 12 grimmauld place
3 mind controlling your enemies
4 wiping your parents memories
5 reanimating corpses
6 house elf slavery
7 dementors
8 murder and snakes eating people
9 I could go on

I guess all this stuff is bright and happy
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Old May 3 2015, 08:36 PM   #40
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I'm not sure how the subject matter and the tone of books can be strictly separated. I'm sure someone could write a comedy about, say, genocide, but it would be at least creepy, if not depressing.

I read the Potter books as very optimistic. Bad things happen and there are spooky sets and grotesque characters, and some of the themes I don't agree with. (Sure, let's separate 11 year olds up into houses and tell them Slytherin is the BAD HOUSE with the single worst teacher in the school in charge and they'll likely wind up evil, then be surprised when they act like it.)

But like Anareth says, the good guys win, acting like a hero is as important as being a hero, and love and friendship are the things that will see you through the darkest night. British children's literature has a tradition of tackling some fairly heavy subjects -- Have you ever actually read Narnia? I mean really paid attention to all that was going on in it? -- but with an generally optimistic outlook.

Being a good person will get you far in that kind of literature, whereas most of Anne's protagonists, at least on Pern, aren't really what I'd call good people. That isn't a mark against the author! Protagonists don't have to be good people to be good characters. But Lessa learning that murder isn't the way to get through life was never a goal of the books.

Pern is a medieval world no matter how you slice it, and those get pretty nasty for everyone but heroes. And I'd say a book like Dragonflight, which kicks off the plot with slavery and murder, has a romance plot that starts as rape, and is a race against time to save the world from destruction, is pretty dark.
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