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Old May 5 2014, 01:39 AM   #1
D. M. Domini
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Green Domick and Menolly

Do you think (once Sebell was aged up considerably in MHoP) that Domick would be a better romantic partner for Menolly than Sebell?

Why or why not?

Discuss! No right or wrong answers.

(Inspired by my sudden realization while writing fanfic that Robinton/Menolly wouldn't actually work no matter how my little heart wants it to, and Sebell/Menolly just bores me to tears.)
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Old May 5 2014, 02:29 AM   #2
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Default Re: Domick and Menolly

I'm not sure he's a good match either. How much older is he than Menolly? I agree that a match with Sebell is totally boring, but at least he's close in age to Menolly.
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Old May 6 2014, 01:25 PM   #3
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I'm not sure he's a good match either. How much older is he than Menolly? I agree that a match with Sebell is totally boring, but at least he's close in age to Menolly.
Domick was an apprentice harper and studying with Petiron at the time Robinton became Masterharper and Petiron moved to Half Circle Hold. About 10 to 15 turns younger than Robinton, probably.

Sebell arrived at the Hall 2 or 3 turns later, aged 10 or 11. The future F'lar and F'nor were almost 12 and 10 turns at this point, so however old they are in Dragonquest, that's about how old Sebell is when he meets Menolly (and he definitely hasn't 'just walked the tables'). How old do we think Robinton was in Dragonquest/Dragonsinger? And how long did he 'journey' before he was elected Masterharper (for a guess at Domick's age)?

I think these details are about right, but I only skimmed MHoP to get this much.

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Old May 6 2014, 05:54 PM   #4
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Huh, that would make Sebell a LOT older than Menolly then. I don't know why but I always assumed that he was around ten years older. Maybe she should have just married Jaxom...
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Old May 6 2014, 06:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Domick and Menolly

Sebell is described as the son Robinton wanted but didn't engender. So I'd put him as at twenty to thirty years younger than Robinton.
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Old May 7 2014, 12:45 AM   #6
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Default Re: Domick and Menolly

You really can't go by MHoP as far as timelines go. As you say, Sebell has only just walked the tables in DSi.

I really only take certain parts of MHoP as canon. Did he have a passionate love for his wife who died tragically? Yes! Did he sneak into Ruatha just in time to watch F'lar fight Fax? Heck no. And again, timelines don't always add up.

I think the worst timeline error is in the novella "Runner of Pern", where the story starts out speculating about whether Thread will return, and then the main character meets someone who is known to be Jaxom's age, and he is in his thirties!
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Old May 7 2014, 12:49 AM   #7
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Honestly, I never got that vibe from Domick. He is definitely older than Sebell (although there's nothing wrong with that of course). I like him as a mentor who helps draw out more of Menolly's talents as she is starting to come into her own. And she, being the rare talent that she is, is able to draw him out unexpectedly as well - like getting so excited about his music, and surprising him by that. I think it might end up beng a little like her relationship with Petiron.
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Old May 7 2014, 12:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: Domick and Menolly

OK, so if you reject MHoP as a reliable source for the timeline (and I usually do), let's try DragonQuest.

Chapter 10 shows Robinton and 4 harpers (Sebell, Talmor, Brudegan, Tagetarl) getting ready for a ride to the wedding at Telgar Hold. When he calls for them to hurry up, he gets 2 responses from the apprentice barracks and 2 from the Journeyman's Hold. (Though one of the journeymen might be supervising the apprentices, so that doesn't necessarily mean 2 of each rank.)

Robinton's instructions to the others on arrival at Telgar suggest that Sebell and Tagetarl are the least experienced: it's Sebell's first public performance (but Robinton emphasises that he has faith in his abilities), and he warns Tagetarl not to charm the girls till after the banquet: "Remember, you'll be a full harper too soon to jeopardize a good holding". Then again, he later sets Tagetarl to keep Kylara entertained, and F'lar figures 'the young journeyman' is likely to appeal to her tastes, so maybe he's only just walked the tables but not been assigned yet.

Brudegan is specifically referred to as a journeyman at one point. That leaves Talmor and Sebell as possible senior apprentices who will have walked the tables by the time Menolly arrives at the Harper Hall. They're all pretty young.
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Old May 7 2014, 01:41 PM   #9
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I've always thought of Domick as middle-aged. When we first meet him he's wearing an old tunic with a faded journeyman's markings (I guess they keep their old clothes for dirty work like making instruments). Definitely mature; 40-ish perhaps?

Anyway, from the age of 15 onward Menolly had her pick of younger journeymen, and practically no other girls around to compete for their attention. And she was still in awe of Master Domick. But probably fooling around with under-age girls wasn't approved of in hold and craft anyway.
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Old May 7 2014, 02:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: Domick and Menolly

Oh, thanks for bringing up that bit from DQ! I'd forgotten. And that's the day the Oldtimers get banished... so from there it would be a couple of months at least before Menolly gets to Benden Weyr and gets told about the Oldtimers, and the queens' flight. So Sebell could either be a senior apprentice or a new journeyman - a few months is short enough that Piemur might still say he'd only just walked the tables, especially if there had been no others in the meantime.


Domick seems middle-aged to me, too.
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Old May 8 2014, 08:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: Domick and Menolly

Yeah, the data we get in Dragonquest and Dragonsinger show Sebell's only slightly older than Menolly. Then MHoP ages him up like WHOA. For my personal head-canon, I like to disregard MHoP as valid because it conflicts with the books many of us grew up with.

I never actually got any feel from the books proper that Domick and Menolly could be a thing. But as I've been playing with fanfic, I've found Domick to be an indefinitely more engaging character to write with her than pretty much any other canon Harper. He's not as old as Robinton. He's more interesting than Sebell. He shares a love of composition with Menolly. And he's NOT unfailingly nice, he's a bit dark and has a temper, which, really, is all you need to write a romance with a Dark and Brooding guy. (He strikes me as a F'lar that's less handsome but more self-aware.)

(here's a stupid speculative theory theory: Sebell in MHoP was really a younger Sebell's father. Older Sebell in MHoP gets killed by Fax at some point, and Robinton raises his son.)
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Old May 8 2014, 09:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: Domick and Menolly

Man, I really need to go back and reread MHoP, but I remember not being impressed with it the first time around.
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Old May 8 2014, 10:00 PM   #13
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The thing I find most impressive about MHoP is how it has a perfectly lovely Brom cover.

Brom, usually a master of the dark and gothy, did a freaking FANTASTIC cover for it.
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Old May 9 2014, 01:19 AM   #14
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Default Re: Domick and Menolly

You know Domick is quite a bit older than Menolly and the other girls, because they are intimidated by him rather than wanting to flirt with him! (Well, Menolly wouldn't anyway, but you know who I mean!)
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Old May 9 2014, 02:07 AM   #15
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I've always pegged him as early 40s. He runs around in clothing that has old Journeymen's markings on it, and surely such clothing will only last in one piece for so many turns. Otherwise, no matter how much he doesn't want new clothes, he'll be forced to get them anyhow.
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Old May 9 2014, 07:55 PM   #16
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Which would make him at least 20 years older than Menolly?
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Old May 9 2014, 08:49 PM   #17
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She's fifteen, and he's old enough to be her father.
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Old May 9 2014, 11:08 PM   #18
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That's icky by our standards, but maybe it was common on Pern.
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Old May 10 2014, 01:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: Domick and Menolly

I'm not saying it wouldn't happen, but he's a much older, authority figure to her from the start. Even once they've worked together for a while, it would be hard to let go of that.
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Old May 10 2014, 10:56 PM   #20
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Well, in light of Sebell being aged up to about the same thing in MHoP, and all the UST with Robinton, seems the author doesn't mind at all putting her with an older guy a la Damia and Afra.

::shrug::

I DO get why people aren't fond of it. I really didn't think much of it either because there's not a smidgen of a hint of it in the books. Then I began writing some of it as a throw-away, and mid-story converted myself (which was quite weird). It's a really, really fun pairing to write.
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Old May 10 2014, 11:59 PM   #21
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Well, whatever works for you. As I said, I don't consider much of MHoP to be canon, especially the parts that don't match what was previously written.
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Old May 13 2014, 01:59 PM   #22
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Default Re: Domick and Menolly

I always imagined myself as Menolly's romantic partner when I was growing up. So go with that instead
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Old May 17 2014, 12:51 PM   #23
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First: get back to the end of the line, Kindan

Second: you live in an altogether totally differen Pass than Menolly did, so there :p
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Old May 20 2014, 03:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: Domick and Menolly

Well, one consistent rule of Anne's Pern books is that every major character has to get paired off with someone else at some point!

I too, was always convinced that Menolly was going to fall for me at Harper Hall when I was growing up, but alas, that older Journeyman Sebell, aroused her interest instead. :P
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Old May 20 2014, 07:19 PM   #25
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First: get back to the end of the line, Kindan

Second: you live in an altogether totally differen Pass than Menolly did, so there :p
Touche on both counts!
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Old May 21 2014, 03:12 PM   #26
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Rather revealing of me: I didn't want to get off with Menolly; I wanted to BE Menolly!
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Old May 26 2014, 06:00 PM   #27
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As for me, I wanted to get with Mirrim not Menolly. And indeed, my high school crush was a girl remarkably similar to both Mirrim and Lessa.
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Old Apr 29 2015, 07:50 PM   #28
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Quote:
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That's icky by our standards, but maybe it was common on Pern.
very true in an agrarian society. The age you can marry in Nebraska is 14, a hold over from the 19th century.
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Old Apr 13 2017, 09:00 PM   #29
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Oh, thanks for bringing up that bit from DQ! I'd forgotten. And that's the day the Oldtimers get banished... so from there it would be a couple of months at least before Menolly gets to Benden Weyr and gets told about the Oldtimers, and the queens' flight. So Sebell could either be a senior apprentice or a new journeyman - a few months is short enough that Piemur might still say he'd only just walked the tables, especially if there had been no others in the meantime.


Domick seems middle-aged to me, too.
Actually, it's only a couple of weeks between the wedding and when Menolly shows up at the Harper Hall. At the beginning of DQ, Ramoth has already laid her clutch, Menolly comes to the Harper Hall the night of the hatching. It's 5 weeks between laying and hatching (count 5 heated weeks and a day of glory). The wedding happens between these events. More than likely, Sebell has already walked the tables. He may have been in the apprentice dorm because he had work there, or maybe there wasn't room yet in the Journeyman dorm. Either way, I don't think he would have only been a journey for a week or two before Menolly shows up. I always assumed he had walked them about a year before (his reference to "journeying" in Dragonsinger). Of course, that doesn't jive with the statement that it was his first public appearance- which doesn't make since anyway, since we know from Dragonsinger that everyone at the Harper Hall takes a turn on Gather Day at some point.
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Old Apr 14 2017, 05:00 AM   #30
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Quote:
That's icky by our standards, but maybe it was common on Pern.
Actually: it's not that long ago that European society was marrying off young teenage girls to ancient widowers.

Remember; Sebell was Master Robinton's 'special apprentice', just as Piemur was Master Shonagar's. He was earmarked for 'great things' from early on.
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Old Apr 19 2017, 08:10 AM   #31
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Which makes it rather unlikely that he hadn't performed in public before.
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Old Apr 20 2017, 08:57 PM   #32
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Performing in public at a Fort Hold weekly-market type of gather is a lot different than performing in public at a major event like the wedding at Telgar. If only because at Fort, half the crowd is harpers who know you! (See Dragonsinger.)
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Old Apr 21 2017, 08:27 AM   #33
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That would be scary - they're more likely to criticise you.
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Old May 15 2017, 07:55 AM   #34
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Default Re: Domick and Menolly

Not much to contribute to the specific conversation, except 'hooray' for Anne's wiggly twisty timelines... Also, I don't know why, but I never took to Sebell as a character.

As for Pern crushes, I was always taken with Sharra, or possibly Aramina.
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Old May 20 2017, 11:06 PM   #35
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Not much to contribute to the specific conversation, except 'hooray' for Anne's wiggly twisty timelines... Also, I don't know why, but I never took to Sebell as a character.
Because Sebell's just kind of...there. I am not normally a fan of ships with huge age gaps but I always felt Anne kind of chickened out on Robinton and Menolly and just made up Sebell. There's nothing OBJECTIONABLE about him, there's just not a huge amount to recommend him, either.
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Old May 21 2017, 03:08 AM   #36
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How about a fanfic where Sebell dies (of something nasty, or in a nasty way) and Menolly lands up Masterharper?
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Old May 21 2017, 11:51 AM   #37
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I think you're correct Anareth. But then, the original Menolly books were young adult and by the time Robinton-Menolly comes up Anne was commercially on the uptake and her publishers probably wouldn't have condoned a pretty explicit relationship between the two.

Would have been nice though. And you can read lots of things between the lines about the Menolly-Robinton relationship.


Peter; I would find that very tacky and tasteless.
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