How long is weyrling training?

[Cheryl]

Random question that popped into my head, while contemplating the length of time the Southern experiment took and the fact that they returned with a new clutch that I think was said to be ready to fight Fall.

How long does it take from hatching to being ready to join a fighting wing, on average?

[Samsara]

I'm not positive, but I dont think weyrlings join a fighting wing until the dragon is considered to be 'mature', which I think is when the dragon is around 1 or 2 turns old.

[GinnyStar]

Closer to two turns I would say by the first they reached most of there full adult size, and move out the weyrling barracks, into there own weyrs.

[Samsara]

Yep, I think you are right Ginny. I was thinking that after I posted. It would have to be when the dragon is at least 2 years old. The dragons aren't even taught how to fly or go between until they are almost fully grown, so it would stand to reason that another year at least would be required to complete thier threadfall training.

[Kath]

We see that it CAN be done faster than normal in RSR/DE, though K'vin and Zulaya know they don't need to. Dragons can take their first flights some time from 8-ish months into the 13 months of their first year, and certainly by their first birthday. After that, it just depends on how long you're willing to spend on 'site-recognition training' and 'long range flights to build wing muscle'. You can't skimp on the latter. Really, you can't. But it'll go along side the trips between, learning the landmarks, and learning to flame. At a minimum, could you get fit enough in that last third of a year, like a yearling racehorse? The Southern experiment weyrlings wouldn't have been able to learn the northern landmarks, so they'd have had to pick them up one at a time once they were back north.

If Prideth matured at 2 turns, the hatchlings from her clutch during the southern experiment could have been ready to fight after as little as another year, but hopefully F'lar decided he didn't need them to after all. By making the time-gap between hatching and returning north so short, you get around the fact that Prideth hadn't risen to mate a second time... she's only 1 turn plus 4 and a bit months of pregnancy/brooding since her last flight, and a delay of up to eighteen months really isn't too bad considering she was in Pern's past, well away from the next Pass, and they thought they had all the time in the world - so no urgency to breed like crazy. But if those weyrlings were 2turns+ old already, then you run into a problem - she really ought to have another clutch on the way by then. With a four-year duration for the experiment, it all fits in nicely. Prideth rose at some time between 2 and 2.5 turns of age, and her clutch matured in the remaining turn to turn and a half left until the experiment ran out. Add another half year if you want - 4 turns does allow for rounding errors!

[Blue Rider 16]

I realize DLG isn't exactly the most definitive source but Todd's section (I think it was when he was going under the name of Johnston) gives about 18 months. Putting a year for "preliminary" training so to speak where the weyrlings practice ground drills and such. Then at a year the young dragons are ready for first flight, and the weyrlings practice those often going with older riders. When they are deemed ready they go into the Weyrling Wing, giving firestone sacks to older riders. And after they've gone through a Fall with the Weyrling Wing, and also have turned 16 turns, they are admitted to the Fighting Wings. I believe that if they don't turn 16 they continue in the Weyrling Wing til they do turn 16.

[Weyrlady]

Personally,I would go more towards the 2-years-old end of things, for simply physical reasons, if nothing else. I know that Pernese dragons aren't similiar to Terran animals, where it just makes good sense to wait until the animal has completely finished growing and matured before they are worked. Not waiting until the 2-year mark usually means paying for it, with lameness or worse.

[P'ter]

Blue Rider: I think you'll find that Johnston IS Todd's RL name. He uses McCaffrery when he's writing with mum.

[Cheryl]

It was Johnson, not Johnston, but it is no longer his legal last name -- he changed it to McCaffrey before he started writing with his mother. It wasn't changed because of the writing but because of constant identity mix-up with another Todd Johnson in the LA area who was often of interest to the police.

[mawra]

In DOP it was mentioned that the rider has to be 16 years old before he/she could join a fighting wing.

[GinnyStar]

Originally Posted by mawra

In DoP it was mentioned that the rider has to be 16 years old before he/she could join a fighting wing.

Yes for T'lion impressed at 12 turns his brother was a few turns older, so didn't K'van for at the the right age by a day. He was the youngest one and impressed his bronze at his first try, even with a broken leg and all, he was still a wyerling in The Girl Who Heard Dragons, and the WD, by RoP and All the Weys of Pern he had become as old as F'lar when he became Wyerleader.

[Blue Rider 16]

I don't think he was the age F'lar was when he became Weyrleader until DoP, and the latter half of it at that.

[ElectricDragon]

Originally Posted by Weyrlady

Personally,I would go more towards the 2-years-old end of things, for simply physical reasons, if nothing else. I know that Pernese dragons aren't similiar to Terran animals, where it just makes good sense to wait until the animal has completely finished growing and matured before they are worked. Not waiting until the 2-year mark usually means paying for it, with lameness or worse.

My understanding (and I don't have a citation at the moment) is that Weyrling training runs 18-36 months, with the greens being at the shorter end and the golds at the longer in color order. There would be a range of variability from one pair to the next, even in the same color, of course, and proximity to pass (increased breeding rate) and operational necessity (casualties/need to fill the ranks/etc...) would play a part. So too would the skill of the Weyrlingmaster, the Weyr's dedication to training overall, the talent pool new riders are drawn from, the age of those riders, and the genetics of the individual dragon.

Once trained, any pair below a minimum rider age for maturity would probably be assigned responsible duties not directly involved in fighting/flaming Thread, such as marshaling the Weyrlings still in training in the task of flying firestone to the fighting wings, acting as the Weyr's messenger to other Weyrs, Holds and Halls, and conveying for the Weyr.

[jube]

If memory serves me correctly, Ruth was about 2 years old before he was "considered" mature enough to do all the things that a normal dragon could do, even though he was the "runt of the litter". I remember Jaxom asking N'ton about it, besides the colour of Ruth's hide.

[GHarris]

Originally Posted by jube

If memory serves me correctly, Ruth was about 2 years old before he was "considered" mature enough to do all the things that a normal dragon could do, even though he was the "runt of the litter". I remember Jaxom asking N'ton about it, besides the colour of Ruth's hide.

IIRC, Ruth was 2 before N'ton would even let Jaxom ride Ruth. For most other weyrlings, that happens at about 1 year old.

GH

[GinnyStar]

Originally Posted by ElectricDragon

My understanding (and I don't have a citation at the moment) is that Weyrling training runs 18-36 months, with the greens being at the shorter end and the golds at the longer in color order. There would be a range of variability from one pair to the next, even in the same color, of course, and proximity to pass (increased breeding rate) and operational necessity (casualties/need to fill the ranks/etc...) would play a part. So too would the skill of the Weyrlingmaster, the Weyr's dedication to training overall, the talent pool new riders are drawn from, the age of those riders, and the genetics of the individual dragon.

Once trained, any pair below a minimum rider age for maturity would probably be assigned responsible duties not directly involved in fighting/flaming Thread, such as marshaling the Weyrlings still in training in the task of flying firestone to the fighting wings, acting as the Weyr's messenger to other Weyrs, Holds and Halls, and conveying for the Weyr.

We see that in DoP, T'lion dose that.

[jube]

Originally Posted by GHarris

IIRC, Ruth was 2 before N'ton would even let Jaxom ride Ruth. For most other weyrlings, that happens at about 1 year old.

GH

Jaxom had loads of issues in regards to being a lord as well as a dragon-rider at that particular time as Ruth was an unknown factor in relation to all other dragons and people didn't know or wasn't sure how to deal with him in particular. Plus other weyrlings were actually at the weyr and doing on-the-job training where as Ruth wasn't.

[Brenda]

Before Weyrlings have to join a full fighting wing, they will also have Threadfall duties of bringing firestone to the fighting dragons.

[GHarris]

Originally Posted by jube

Jaxom had loads of issues in regards to being a lord as well as a dragon-rider at that particular time as Ruth was an unknown factor in relation to all other dragons and people didn't know or wasn't sure how to deal with him in particular. Plus other weyrlings were actually at the weyr and doing on-the-job training where as Ruth wasn't.

My understanding of it was that since Ruth was a runt, they didn't want to overstress him prematurely. So they waited until he had not grown for at least a month before allowing Jaxom to ride Ruth. Now I'll agree that some of it was probably due to being overcautious with Jaxom. It wouldn't do to have him hurt because they were being overambitious with his weyrling training.

But I count N'ton supervising his flying with Ruth as part of his weryling training, even if unofficial. It wasn't until even later that Jaxom/Ruth actually got training with the Weyrling wing. I believe that didn't happen until after they got threadscored during the egg return.

GH

[ElectricDragon]

Originally Posted by GHarris

My understanding of it was that since Ruth was a runt, they didn't want to overstress him prematurely. So they waited until he had not grown for at least a month before allowing Jaxom to ride Ruth. Now I'll agree that some of it was probably due to being overcautious with Jaxom. It wouldn't do to have him hurt because they were being overambitious with his weyrling training.

But I count N'ton supervising his flying with Ruth as part of his weryling training, even if unofficial. It wasn't until even later that Jaxom/Ruth actually got training with the Weyrling wing. I believe that didn't happen until after they got threadscored during the egg return.

GH

Concur, I recall there being concern about whether Ruth could bear the weight and deliberate over-caution due to Jaxom's status as a Lord Holder.

[vyon]

Not just Lord Holder, but Lord Holder of a strategic Hold that couldn't have a disputed leadership. That would make everyone over-cautious, especially as they couldn't predict Ruth's abilities.

[ghost8772]

well, I know in DF the dragons were presented with boys nearer ten turns old. Once F'lar took over the choices were closer to their majority, since dragons matured faster than the boys did. I'd expect that early on a dragonrider was considered a weyrling until the dragon was fit to join fighting wings, criteria of straight flight capability, between transfers, and flaming, and the rider was old enough to join the wings. Before F'lar I'd expect they might have been left as weyrlings until they could join the fighting wings. In the new regime its possible they were no longer weyrlings, but we're also not quite fighting dragonriders. I don't know, I almost rememeber that it was weyrlings that passed firestone during a fall. I'm not sure which book, but remember reading a weyrling popping in with a fresh pair of sacks, they dropped on dragon's neck, then dove under to catch the empties that the dragonrider cut free from his dragon's neck. I'm fairly sure it was in Dragonflight, or Dragonquest, but not sure if it was Canth or Mnementh who was the dragon in question.

[GinnyStar]

Originally Posted by ghost8772

<snip> I don't know, I almost rememeber that it was weyrlings that passed firestone during a fall. I'm not sure which book, but remember reading a weyrling popping in with a fresh pair of sacks, they dropped on dragon's neck, then dove under to catch the empties that the dragonrider cut free from his dragon's neck. I'm fairly sure it was in Dragonflight, or Dragonquest, but not sure if it was Canth or Mnementh who was the dragon in question.

Pg. 340 USA HC editon DE That sound more like the end of DE/RSR when K'vin at the First Fall of the Second Pass saw he was almost out of firestone, had Charanth call for more and it was Z'gal and blue Tracath that came from between, dropping the new sacks on Charanth neck as K'vin for he pulled the release knots that had his old sacks Tracath had the dived under so his rider could get the used sacks heading between to Telgar Weyr. Not qute word for word but I think you get the general idea. Its a point that sticks in my mind for I've worn out the tape copy of that book, and few others. Thanks to Dragon Buddie I have a new HC/HB of it now.

[Brenda]

There may be something in one of the Threadfighting scenes in DQ.

[GinnyStar]

I have some choice phrases for her, yes. But T’bayek didn’t elaborate on what those were exactly as he swung the bag of firestone down the rope, dangling it within reach of Jori’s reaching arms.

Although pregnant, the greenrider was still ready and able, and had no problem catching the sack even though the strong winds pelted it back and forth.

Okay, she’s got it! He thought, reeling the rope back up. Back to the Weyr, buddy.

But before Zhemyth could transmit /between/ another gust of wind came up, strong enough to buffet them both to the side. One of the greens below them screeched in surprise and skipped /between/, avoiding a clump of thread that had fallen too close

http://forums.srellim.org/showthread...e+hitting+Pernhttp://forums.srellim.org/showpost.p...88&postcount=2 it fan written one, I was looking for something else at the time

[Chimaerrha]

Here are some weyrling references that I found, some referenced above. Hope they help.

D'E online:

very Weyr had its own compendium of information about what to do in such-and-such a situation. And every weyrling was assiduously trained and supported through the early months of the relationship until the Weyrleaders and Weyrlingmaster deemed he/ she was stable enough to take responsibility for her/ himself and her/ his dragon.

Now he saw the weyrlings as mischievous - even naughty, as one ducked her rider into the lake - and endlessly inventive. None of this last Hatching were ready to fly yet, but some of the previous clutch were beginning to take on adult duties.

Also might depend on age:

DoP on.:

Before appearing at the main Weyr Hall, T'lion saw Gadareth comfortable
in his own sandy wallow, a clearing in the thick jungle that T'lion had
himself prepared for his dragon when they were considered old enough to
leave the weyrling barracks.

Jaxom trains with weyrlings until he thinks he's "ready" enough, though he's in a different case than many people.

[GinnyStar]

Weyrlings were also tossing firestone sacks back and forth DE/RSE too.