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Old Oct 29 2009, 05:21 PM   #1
Golden Talisath
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Question Naming a child on Pern - how?

Was this asked before? If not, I would like to know: we all know that dragonriders name their children combining their names, but what about the rest of Pern? Robinton was named after Merelan’s father, but Lessa was named after her mother Adessa, and I suppose the first two letters of her name are from the last two letters of her father’s. So, what about the non - dragonriders? Is there any rule to how people on Pern (not including the riders) name their kid’s?
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Old Oct 29 2009, 06:07 PM   #2
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

I think children usually are named with a portion of their father's name, and a portion of their mother's. That was an acknowledged Pernese convention even in the short story, "The Ford of Red Hanahran". But as with all social conventions, there will be exceptions to the rule. However, it is the norm.
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Old Oct 29 2009, 06:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Actually in "The Ford of Red Hanrahahn", the first child mentioned with a "Pernese" name is called Ezremil, not after parents but in honor of Emily Boll and Ezra Keroon, IIRC. It's a new idea, but people embrace the idea of giving children Pernese names rather than Earth names.
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Old Oct 30 2009, 11:55 AM   #4
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

I think the important part then would be the combining of two names: usually the parents, but not always.
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Old Oct 30 2009, 02:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Or even a friend's combined with the parent's = Robse - Robinton and Sebell. Though I'm sure there are lots that are just made up without combining, or even kids directly named for an ancestor.
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Old Oct 30 2009, 03:22 PM   #6
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

I can't think of any names in DSo which appear to be related, for an example.
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Old Oct 30 2009, 11:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

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Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
I can't think of any names in DSo which appear to be related, for an example.
Felessan --- son of F'lar (Fallarnon) and Lessa.
Jaxom --- son of Fax and Gemma.

The other obvious family group in DragonSong was Yanus and Mavi's family --- and the only offspring mentioned by name were Alemi, Sella and Menolly. But the names based on Yanus and Mavi would have gone to their eldest children, and the younger ones would have been named after other family members or just given pleasant-sounding names. I seem to remember Menolly being the youngest of 22, but haven't been able to find the reference since. Alemi was the third son of six, Menolly the youngest child, Sella the next-oldest daughter (but not THE oldest). That means a minimum of 9 kids.

Other stories:
I think F'lon's (Falloner's) younger brother was Bravonner (MHoP).
Sebell and Menolly's kids were Robse (an homage to Robinton), Sebolly and Olos.
Jaxom and Sharra's were Jarrol (homage to Lytol at the end?) and Shawan (?).
Larad and Kylara both have 3 letters from their father, Lord Tarathel; Famira has 2 of the same; Thella has the last 4 letters. 3 of them have 'la'.

Readis was named after his uncle, who sacrificed himself so Jayge and Aramina could escape from Thella. Camo --- goodness knows.

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Old Oct 31 2009, 03:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Hmm, I don't remember Sebolly, though I do know they had a daughter named Lemsia...
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Old Nov 1 2009, 11:57 AM   #9
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

I'm pretty sure "Sebolly" doesn't exist.
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Old Nov 1 2009, 10:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

OOPS ! Sorry, I was in a hurry and didn't check.

It took me several minutes to locate a reference to all 3 kids (in ATWOP), but they were indeed Robse, Olos and Lemsia.

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Old Nov 3 2009, 12:38 PM   #11
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

So, they can name them the same way as dragonriders do, but it isn’t so strict?
Can that happen with the dragonriders? Can a child born in a Weyr be named somehow different than the others? Using a friend’s name, perhaps? Or something else?
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Old Nov 3 2009, 12:56 PM   #12
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

I wouldn't be surprised. As with all social customs, naming on Pern would most likely be a social norm not an absolute.
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Old Nov 3 2009, 06:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've seen a number of dragonrider names without clear connection to the parents. For instance, I'm pretty sure G'dened was the son of D'ram and Fanna.
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Old Nov 3 2009, 07:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Holder folk tend to have bigger families than dragonriders, so they would run out of syllable-combinations sooner and have to use additional naming-conventions.

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Old Nov 3 2009, 11:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Also, Holders seem to have more permanent relationships. Relationships in the Weyrs seem to be more casual - including parents' names is a practical means of keeping track!
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Old Nov 4 2009, 03:46 PM   #16
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Hmm, G'dened's name could work if D'ram's name was originally oh... Degedram! hehe. ANd G'dened could've been Gadened or Gandened. Niether of which is any worse than Felessan. Just anagaram the letters...
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Old Nov 4 2009, 05:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

If we go by what F'lar says in DF, in the Weyr it is traditional to combine the first part of the father's name with some part of the mother's name, usually the second syllable - T'kil would have likely been named T'lar (or the non-elided version) except that it would have implied that F'lar was the father.

Of course that brings up the whole thing of, was Kylara so arrogant as to name her son that, or did she give him a longer name but immediately adopt the elided version, or is this just another thing to chalk up to AMC not having figured out the rules yet? In which case my statement above is questionable - but if you leave Kylara out, it still makes sense as a way to keep track of paternity in a place where it is more likely that siblings will have different fathers.
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Old Nov 5 2009, 01:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Maybe for some, but not all. Balloner. Selessan. Nemekke. And doesn't Moreta's son's name start with M?
They'd have to mix it up a bit if there were several children or the names would all start sounding similiar or even just awful.

Anyway, I was just having some fun with G'dened. We only know he's D'ram's son, not that Fanna's his mother.
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Old Nov 5 2009, 03:30 AM   #19
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2cent Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriflor View Post
OOPS ! Sorry, I was in a hurry and didn't check.

It took me several minutes to locate a reference to all 3 kids (in ATWOP), but they were indeed Robse, Olos and Lemsia.

Eriflor.
Robse was a combination of Robinton and Sebell, and I'm pretty sure that Lemsia was named after Menolly's brother Alemi. Not sure about Olos...

Last edited by Samsara; Nov 5 2009 at 03:31 AM. Reason: typo.. uggh
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Old Nov 5 2009, 05:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Olos - S from Sebell, O from Menolly, L from both. The second O could be from Jaxom, Camo, Robinton, or any other friend or relative with an O in their name.
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Old Nov 5 2009, 09:22 PM   #21
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Quote:
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Olos - S from Sebell, O from Menolly, L from both. The second O could be from Jaxom, Camo, Robinton, or any other friend or relative with an O in their name.
Yes that makes sense. Probably not Jaxom though? More likely Robinton or Camo?
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Old Nov 6 2009, 08:28 AM   #22
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Or I'd say Ol from Menolly, S from Sebell. The second O may have been used to make it a proper name, Ols is rather short. Come to think of it, Olos is very short for a Pernese boy's name, since most names are longish so that they can be elided easily. Giving Camo a short name makes perfect sense, since there's no way he'd ever impress a dragon.
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Old Nov 6 2009, 08:44 PM   #23
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Maybe Olos is not dragonrider material for one reason or another, or they just aren't worried about it?

I think T'kil is pretty obviously one of those things that was just Anne hadn't worked the system out yet--maybe the assumption she had at the time was dragonmen were REALLY a breed apart and an elided name was a mark of a boy born in the Weyr who was almost certainly going to be a dragonrider. Chalk it up with Larth the male green as another one of those DF things.
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Old Nov 7 2009, 11:10 AM   #24
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Yeah, that's what I figured - but take out the apostrophe and the conversation with F'lar still makes sense.
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Old Nov 7 2009, 11:19 AM   #25
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Or even use an "I" in place of the apostrophe. Wasn't there a dragon in Moreta, that's name was Tigrath but was called T'grath either in the Dragondex or the text?
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Old Nov 7 2009, 11:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Or I'd say Ol from Menolly, S from Sebell. The second O may have been used to make it a proper name, Ols is rather short. Come to think of it, Olos is very short for a Pernese boy's name, since most names are longish so that they can be elided easily. Giving Camo a short name makes perfect sense, since there's no way he'd ever impress a dragon.
Yes, I tend to agree with with you on that score...
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Old Nov 9 2009, 12:43 PM   #27
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Well, like someone said, they probably didn’t care.
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Old Nov 9 2009, 12:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
If we go by what F'lar says in DF, in the Weyr it is traditional to combine the first part of the father's name with some part of the mother's name, usually the second syllable - T'kil would have likely been named T'lar (or the non-elided version) except that it would have implied that F'lar was the father.

Of course that brings up the whole thing of, was Kylara so arrogant as to name her son that, or did she give him a longer name but immediately adopt the elided version, or is this just another thing to chalk up to AMC not having figured out the rules yet? In which case my statement above is questionable - but if you leave Kylara out, it still makes sense as a way to keep track of paternity in a place where it is more likely that siblings will have different fathers.
I remember to be said somewhere (on Wikipedia, I think) that was probably a slip of the pen, or, of course, Kylara was arrogant. And it might be, like someone said, that that was just one of the errors we were talking about on other Threads.
It could also be to provoke Lessa, as Kylara was jealous of her for all the love F’lar gives her.
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Old Nov 9 2009, 11:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: Naming a child on Pern - how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Rider 16 View Post
Or even use an "I" in place of the apostrophe. Wasn't there a dragon in Moreta, that's name was Tigrath but was called T'grath either in the Dragondex or the text?
Yes I can't read to check.
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