A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum  

Go Back   A Meeting of Minds - An Anne McCaffrey Discussion Forum > The Anne McCaffrey Collection > Dragonriders of Pern

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Oct 17 2009, 11:40 PM   #1
Blue Rider 16
Senior Member
Dylanist
 
Blue Rider 16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Gender: M
Fan of: The Dragonriders of Pern
Now Reading: All The Weyrs of Pern
Question The timing of Ever the Twain

I was just on Rukbat 3 and I came across a peculiar statement at the bottom of the chronology page:

"Ever The Twain had been confirmed as being set in the Ninth Pass by Anne. Given the events of the story it would seem to be set after The Skies of Pern."

My understanding was that "Ever the Twain" was widely understood to be set in the Second Pass. Does anybody know if Anne actually issued that confirmation?
__________________
D'vin, rider of brown Denth
Blue Rider 16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 18 2009, 02:52 AM   #2
Kath
Starsmith


Weyrwoman
 
Kath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oop North

Fan of: Moreta
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

It's managed by Jayru, a MOM [ir-]regular, but I've not come across much discussion in favour of it being a ninth pass book...

Cheryl at least places it in the earlier Pass in her timeline.
Kath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 18 2009, 04:21 AM   #3
Hans
Master Archivist
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern!
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

This is new for me and I'm afraid Jayru is mistaken, maybe he was thinking of the Ninth Pass short story "Runner of Pern".

As far as I know Anne has not stated when the story takes place but as you say it is thought to be early in Pern's history. It is, however, not important for the story when it takes place, only for some of us fans
__________________
Hans, also known as Elrhan, Master Archivist

Visit The Pern Museum & Archives for all your Pern and Anne McCaffrey News and Resources!
The Pern Museum & Archives is the home of the Pern Encyclopedia and the Pern Bloodlines.
Hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 18 2009, 08:57 AM   #4
mawra
Dolphin Friend

Craftmaster
 
mawra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CONCORD VA
Gender: F
Fan of: PERN
Now Reading: Dolphins of Pern and Queens ow
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

I would agree that it is not stated when it took place. It was either much earlier or in the 9th pass. Girls could impress greens in the story. I am not sure when girls stopped impressing.
__________________
November is write a 50,000 (or more) word novel, so
go write


MEDDLE NOT IN THE AFFAIRS OF DRAGONS, FOR YOU ARE CRUNCHY AND GOOD WITH CHOCOLATE


SO MANY BOOKS SO LITTLE TIME


DRIVING SMART KEEPS YOU ALIVE
mawra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 18 2009, 10:47 AM   #5
Blue Rider 16
Senior Member
Dylanist
 
Blue Rider 16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Gender: M
Fan of: The Dragonriders of Pern
Now Reading: All The Weyrs of Pern
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

Thanks everybody. That's what I thought. It just confused me for a second.
__________________
D'vin, rider of brown Denth
Blue Rider 16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 19 2009, 11:31 PM   #6
Eriflor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Gender: F
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

I always thought of Ever the Twain as a story early in Pern's history because they were accepting girls as general Candidates, rather than as unexpected Impressions from the stands.

There's no indication in Skies of Pern that the Weyrs were selecting girl candidates other than for the gold eggs. Perhaps nearer the end of the Pass they would do so, since they wouldn't be needed to fight Thread for much longer.

The Searchrider did find it necessary to remind the kids that they were in a Pass and were therefore only taking candidates aged 14 and up so they could join the fighting wings as soon as possible.

Another oddity is that kids in Ever the Twain were only apprenticed at 16 turns instead of 12, which (to me) suggests an earlier date. Possibly even late in the First Pass, when they were still trying to teach the kids an Earth-related curriculum instead of the basic stuff they needed to survive on Pern. (Unless that changed post-AIVAS, with all the newly-discovered science they had to learn.)

Eriflor.
Eriflor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 12:11 AM   #7
mawra
Dolphin Friend

Craftmaster
 
mawra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CONCORD VA
Gender: F
Fan of: PERN
Now Reading: Dolphins of Pern and Queens ow
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

There were more female green rider after Mirrum. In Skies there the main green rider was female (I can't remember her name) it seemed normal for girls to be green riders.
__________________
November is write a 50,000 (or more) word novel, so
go write


MEDDLE NOT IN THE AFFAIRS OF DRAGONS, FOR YOU ARE CRUNCHY AND GOOD WITH CHOCOLATE


SO MANY BOOKS SO LITTLE TIME


DRIVING SMART KEEPS YOU ALIVE
mawra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 03:35 AM   #8
Kath
Starsmith


Weyrwoman
 
Kath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oop North

Fan of: Moreta
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

Not really. IIRC, Tai was one of only three female greenriders, and both Tai and ??Danegga?? impressed from the stands, just like Mirrim. They weren't presented as candidates like the boys were.
Kath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 06:12 AM   #9
Hans
Master Archivist
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern!
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

You got the name right, Kath. It was indeed Danegga, rider of green Ptath from Monaco Weyr who was the third female green rider of the Ninth Pass. She was younger than Tai (who Impressed Zaranth 5 Turns before the events in The Skies of Pern).

I can't remember coming across a mention of Danegga's Impression being another accidental one (although I'm virtualy sure it must gave been), as were Mirrim's and Tai's. Do you have any recollection of that?
__________________
Hans, also known as Elrhan, Master Archivist

Visit The Pern Museum & Archives for all your Pern and Anne McCaffrey News and Resources!
The Pern Museum & Archives is the home of the Pern Encyclopedia and the Pern Bloodlines.
Hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 06:37 AM   #10
Kath
Starsmith


Weyrwoman
 
Kath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oop North

Fan of: Moreta
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

There's a big 'if' in IIRC there Hans... Let me get back to you on that, but in the meanwhile, take it with a mountain of salt!
Kath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 07:35 AM   #11
Hans
Master Archivist
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern!
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

That's alright, I knew you were mentioning this off the top of your head
__________________
Hans, also known as Elrhan, Master Archivist

Visit The Pern Museum & Archives for all your Pern and Anne McCaffrey News and Resources!
The Pern Museum & Archives is the home of the Pern Encyclopedia and the Pern Bloodlines.
Hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 09:30 AM   #12
Brenda
Senior Member
 
Brenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: St. Louis
Gender: F
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

I think there would have been many more female greenriders by SoP if it had become conventional to let girls stand as general candidates. The fact that there have been only two since Mirrim would seem to mean it's the extreme exception for a girl to impress green. I really doubt that Danegga was intended to be a candidate.
Brenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 11:24 AM   #13
P'ter
Crafter

Craftmaster
 
P'ter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wolverhampton
Gender: M
Fan of: Favorite?
Now Reading: avidly
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

There was also Debera in RSR
__________________
"Truth is stranger than fiction: fiction has to make sense." Leo Rosten.

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
C. S. Lewis

"I find television very educational. Whenever somebody switches it on I go in the other room and read a book." (attributed to Groucho Marx)

The Pedants are revolting! (against bad grammar)
P'ter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 11:53 AM   #14
Hans
Master Archivist
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Netherlands
Gender: M
Fan of: Pern!
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

Yes, P'ter, and where there was Debera there were more.
But that was a few Passes earlier...

Brenda, I always took it that , near the end of the Ninth Pass, at times girls were allowed to stand as candidate for a fighting dragon but that hardly any girls were given the chance if they came from holder stock and that the practive was not encoraged in the Weyr. So if someome really wanted and was Searched or admitted yes, but they were not really invited to do so. Get my drift?
__________________
Hans, also known as Elrhan, Master Archivist

Visit The Pern Museum & Archives for all your Pern and Anne McCaffrey News and Resources!
The Pern Museum & Archives is the home of the Pern Encyclopedia and the Pern Bloodlines.
Hans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 01:10 PM   #15
Eriflor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Gender: F
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

If there was a gold egg in the clutch, there would normally be several girls on the Sands to allow the little queen some choice. It's actually rather surprising that more of the rejected girls didn't Impress greens (as did happen in Ever the Twain). I wonder if at some point the adult dragons started influencing the hatchlings to go for boys only --- possibly due to Weyrleaders' concern that female riders would sometimes be out-of-action due to pregnancy.

Eriflor.
Eriflor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 01:47 PM   #16
Kath
Starsmith


Weyrwoman
 
Kath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oop North

Fan of: Moreta
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

Yeah, Eriflor - there've been a few theories posted about that (that the entire audience is mentally against girls impressing other than gold, and the girls themselves are so gold-focused and unaware of their potential that they simply aren't receptive to greens - or, that golds and greens look for very different things in a candidate (and bronzeriders search out a third different personality type for themselves ) and so none of the rejected gold candidates are suitable for greens) but even with those, you'd think there'd be enough outliers that you'd get a few female impressions here or there.

Unless the Weyrs are just really good at hushing those things up in the later passes...
Kath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 01:51 PM   #17
Blue Rider 16
Senior Member
Dylanist
 
Blue Rider 16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Gender: M
Fan of: The Dragonriders of Pern
Now Reading: All The Weyrs of Pern
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

Do we know for a fact that there were only three female greenriders in the Ninth Pass? Sure, there were only three mentioned, but that does not exclude the possibility of more green riders. Tagetral, in SoP, met Danegga and was still getting used to female green riders. That suggests to me that there may be more green riders--not a huge number, but enough that people were trying to get used to the idea.
__________________
D'vin, rider of brown Denth
Blue Rider 16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 02:21 PM   #18
Cheryl
Master Archivist
 
Cheryl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Maryland, USA
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern!
Now Reading: Paladin of Souls (Bujold)
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

There is a direct quote telling us how many green riders there were at the open of Skies of Pern, BlueRider. I'm sure someone will post it!
__________________
Visit one of the other sites of Cheryl's Anne McCaffrey Triad:
Sariel's Guide to Pern: a detailed guide to the series
The Many Works of Anne McCaffrey: largest fan site about Anne and ALL of her works
McCaffrey Quest: annual trivia contest.
Cheryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 03:48 PM   #19
Kath
Starsmith


Weyrwoman
 
Kath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oop North

Fan of: Moreta
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

I can't find much at the start of the book. Tai's been Impressed to Zaranth five years at that point, and the Impression was 'unexpected'.

As for Danegga, she appears midway through the book (p212 UK hardback, the scene with Tagetarl at the Keroon printer hall). Very little is said regarding other greenriders, but she's apparently about sixteen and very newly a rider - still wearing a weyrling's knot.

Interestingly, Tagetarl thinks that he's 'still not accustomed to girls as green riders', which really doesn't rule out more of them, and suggests that they may not be quite as rare as just Mirrim, Tai and Danegga, all of whom are at Monaco Bay Weyr. That in itself seems to be a bit of a statistical blip... though with Mirrim's presence as semi-Weyrleader, perhaps that's an explanation in itself?


Anyone come across anything else?
Kath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20 2009, 04:05 PM   #20
Greenrider Tresa
The Contrary
Planetary Brain
 
Greenrider Tresa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Northern Indiana
Gender: F
Fan of: The Ship Who Searched
Now Reading: The Calhoun Collection, Nora Roberts
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

Nope, not on a quick search with Google Books which will even show results for pages that aren't available for preview.
__________________
Thinking, understanding, reasoning, willing, call not these
Soul! They are its actions, but they are not its essence.

Akhenaton? (c. B.C. 1375)
Egyptian King and Monotheist


Greenrider Tresa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 23 2009, 12:48 AM   #21
GinnyStar
Dolphineer
Craftmaster
 
GinnyStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wausau, WI USA, Central Standard Time
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern, other SF works
Now Reading: Dragonback Bargain
Red face Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

Somewhere, was the comment that in Gift of Dragons, which part of the Pass. Also Anne didn't name the Weyrleader of Ista.

At the Harper's Cot Hold had, a chalkboard were the lesions were done, there were ledges for kids to put their books and slates agin the wall of the cot. It could be that time of transition mid-Pass and the still had, books, chalkboards, slate and stylus, and had a real table for the older kids to math, writing, and schooling.

There were a few by DE/RSR but with parents wanted land grants for married children and only the grandkids of Weyr parents could get the land grants few did do that, even if they didn't impress.

As for green female riders, there could have been out the comment made at the Telgar Hatching that a two Fort lads did impress at Benden and Ista (I think) Weyrs, for it was a felt lost for they could go between Weyr and Hold to learn a craft being to close to Fall.

There were still some green riders. My copy is packed, along with a few other of my Pern collection.
__________________
Lover s s, s and friends
Lover of and beads,
http://www.change.org/profiles/GinnyStar
Dragoncave GinnyStar2
Jellied Dragons
Lair of Dragons
http://dragcave.net/user/GinnyStar2
Thanks! Others: None at this time
WIP http://archiveofourown.org/works/252259
http://www.daisy.org/learning-difficulties
GinnyStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 23 2009, 01:24 PM   #22
Eriflor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Gender: F
Default Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

Page 238 of the Ballantine hardback edition: Greenrider Conna, talking to the twins' mother, says, "Despite riding Oswith nearly 30 turns now, I have never figured out how she discerns rider potential."

If the story takes place near the end of the Ninth Pass, Conna would have to have Impressed Oswith no more than 10 turns after Mirrim Impressed Path. But by the end of the Pass, I'd think conditions in Hold and Weyr would be less primitive than they appear in the story.

Eriflor.
Eriflor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 28 2009, 03:14 AM   #23
GinnyStar
Dolphineer
Craftmaster
 
GinnyStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wausau, WI USA, Central Standard Time
Gender: F
Fan of: Pern, other SF works
Now Reading: Dragonback Bargain
Red face Re: The timing of Ever the Twain

http://forums.srellim.org/showthread.php?t=8 Post # 2 is were I recall see now. I knew I read it somewere.
__________________
Lover s s, s and friends
Lover of and beads,
http://www.change.org/profiles/GinnyStar
Dragoncave GinnyStar2
Jellied Dragons
Lair of Dragons
http://dragcave.net/user/GinnyStar2
Thanks! Others: None at this time
WIP http://archiveofourown.org/works/252259
http://www.daisy.org/learning-difficulties
GinnyStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Timing Paradox Question elvenart Dragonriders of Pern 22 Feb 15 2009 03:06 AM
Timing of SoP and DoP Blue Rider 16 Dragonriders of Pern 20 Sep 3 2008 04:46 AM
Timing It? DragonCat Dragonriders of Pern 6 Jan 10 2006 09:38 AM
timing it D'ana Dragonriders of Pern 26 Apr 14 2005 11:53 AM
Timing question ghyle Dragonriders of Pern 12 Jan 5 2005 10:00 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

A Meeting of Minds forum owned by Cheryl B. Miller.
All references to worlds and characters based on Anne McCaffrey’s fiction are copyright © Anne McCaffrey 1967-2008, all rights reserved, and used by permission of the author.