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Old Dec 17 2004, 11:04 PM   #1
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Default Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

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Originally Posted by edith
the characters that aint meant to be lovable and likeable but are!

i was reading dragonsinger and i thought that Domick isnt as unpleasant character as Menolly thinks in the beginning. Hes cynical and sour, yes but hes not unkind and doesnt say very cruel things, theres something likable about him, and he gets nicer through the book!

Anyone else have one?
In this thread "favourite unusual character" edith asks about unlikable characters that you like. But I have another idea to go along with this. What about characters that you're supposed to like, but end up hating.

I rather dislike Aramina. I didn't even like her in Renegades or in 'The Girl That Heard Dragons" I thought she was awefully superficial and bratty. Then the way she treated Readis in Dolphins. I just don't like her at all.

I also loath Lessa. I know she's the main heroine and all but....there's just something about her personality that I don't like. She has an arrogant complex that I figured she wouldn't have after going through ten years of torture as a drudge. You'd think that her 'I'm of the Ruathan blood line' would've been beaten out of her at a young age. I think she's awesome for getting through that and all but, to be realistic? How many people wouldn't have been tramautised and crushed under those conditions? Especially a pampered 'princess' of Ruatha?

Edited for: realized that the name of the thread was rather misleading, so I changed it from "Favorite USUAL Character" to "Unlikable Main Characters"

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Old Dec 18 2004, 05:03 AM   #2
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Default Re: Favorite USUAL Character?

Jaxom! The Lord Holder and dragonrider who gets to explore Landing and lead an expedition to the Red Star. Gimme a break.

Lessa, for pretty much the same reasons you stated above. I can admire her, but I don't think I'd like her. However, I'd say in Anne's defence that she's a very well written character.

Brekke, for being such a wuss. I'd've loved it if Anne had forced Brekke to break out of her craftbred thinking, giving her the chance to experience a mating flight involving someone other than F'nor.

I liked Aramina okay in The Girl Who Heard Dragons, but I detested her in Dolphins.
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Old Dec 18 2004, 11:02 AM   #3
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Brekke. Jaxom. Aramina. For the reasons stated above.

I don't dislike Lessa. I think she held on to the Ruathan blood thing because she was focused on something practical--vengeance and destroying Fax. The people who get beaten down in that sort of situation are ones like Brekke, who'd have been totally destroyed in the same circumstances because they don't have the ability to come up with a goal and see it through. That a ten-year-old could create such a goal and set out a long-term plan to achieve requires some credulity, but it's not totally impossible. I get tired of her later after she becomes the Shrew of Benden, and especially when she's moping in Skies about the whole children thing, but while I'd never get along with her, I have perhaps a grudging admiration for her.

Jayge. Hate him. His family's too dumb to come in out of Thread and it's the dragonriders' fault? That's called natural selection--you were selected against because you were dumb. He's the worst sort of macho hero type-no real brains, just brawn. And isn't it *so* romantic how he barely gets a look at Aramina and is having wet dreams about her?
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Old Dec 18 2004, 12:30 PM   #4
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Jayce...for the same reasons Anareth states (scary..I'm agreeing with Anareth!) T'gellen.... I don't think he should allow Mirrim the leeway she gets. She's a GREEN rider, not a gold rider, and not Headwoman, for crying out loud.
Mirrim, because I think I'd be the one to wipe the cavern floor with her and her bossy attitude.
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Old Dec 18 2004, 01:00 PM   #5
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I also don't like Aramina much... all her wimpering...

I also find that F'lessan can be annoying after a while...
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Old Dec 18 2004, 10:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: Favorite USUAL Character?

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Jayce...for the same reasons Anareth states (scary..I'm agreeing with Anareth!) T'gellen.... I don't think he should allow Mirrim the leeway she gets. She's a GREEN rider, not a gold rider, and not Headwoman, for crying out loud.
Mirrim, because I think I'd be the one to wipe the cavern floor with her and her bossy attitude.
yea, I don't like T'gellen or Mirrim for those same reasons.

T'gellen needs to let her learn her place as a green rider. Just because he's in love with the girl doesn't mean she should get special privledges. But then again, I can understand him doing that too, look at all the references to Lord Holders keeping mistresses in the main hold.

Mirrim wouldn't last two seconds arround me with that attitude. Especially the way she mouths off about things she has no business talking about (ie what she says to N'ton about Jaxom in TDW at Cove) most of the characters just let it slide and just let her realize and cry/blubber over it for a while. I would say something right back to her, like Menolly did the first time she mouthed off to Jaxom in TWD, except I'd be much meaner.
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Old Dec 19 2004, 05:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: Favorite USUAL Character?

I have sympathy for Mirrim, because when I was comfortable enough in company not to be shy, I'd stick my nose where it wasn't wanted. I recognize myself as a teen in her. The fact that she gets to do so much other greenriders don't on the strength of being T'gellan's weyrmate bugs me, but by the time that episode with Jaxom came along, I was so sick of him getting all the perks that I cheered Mirrim for taking him down a peg or two. Mirrim can be an irritant but Jaxom's insufferable.
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Old Dec 19 2004, 07:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: Favorite USUAL Character?

I've always liked Desdra...Menolly...T'lion...
Can't say exactly why, though. Just they're easy to sympathize with. I even like Readis.



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Old Dec 20 2004, 03:49 AM   #9
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I've always liked Desdra...Menolly...T'lion...
Can't say exactly why, though. Just they're easy to sympathize with. I even like Readis.
Sorry, my post above seems to have been a bit misleading, as is the heading (the old one still shows up, only hosts can edit the name of a thread). Which characters don't you like in spite of them being heroes and supposedly likable?
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Old Dec 20 2004, 07:46 AM   #10
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It is interesting how strong minded and determined women are disliked for the qualities admired in men. Lets be fair here. Personally I like strong minded women who think for them selves.
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Old Dec 20 2004, 08:08 AM   #11
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It is interesting how strong minded and determined women are disliked for the qualities admired in men. Lets be fair here. Personally I like strong minded women who think for them selves.
Good for you. I'd like to think I'm strong-minded, and I'm certainly opinionated, but that doesn't mean I'll go out of my way to be obnoxious, like Lessa often comes across as doing. Of course, I do enjoy the benefit of living in a society where a female's ability to think for herself is taken for granted.
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Old Dec 20 2004, 09:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: Favorite USUAL Character?

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It is interesting how strong minded and determined women are disliked for the qualities admired in men. Lets be fair here. Personally I like strong minded women who think for them selves.
here here. men don't want simpering girls unless they are control freaks!
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Old Dec 20 2004, 03:45 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by granath
Good for you. I'd like to think I'm strong-minded, and I'm certainly opinionated, but that doesn't mean I'll go out of my way to be obnoxious, like Lessa often comes across as doing. Of course, I do enjoy the benefit of living in a society where a female's ability to think for herself is taken for granted.
Lessa obnoxious? I don't think so. She did become a woman of strong opinion and she is a natural and good leader but I don't see her as obnoxious at all. Granted that not many people on Pern will cross a strong Gold queen rider who is also a HAD. Given what she went through because of Fax and the inept training she had after the hatching Lessa came out very well thank you very much.
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Old Dec 20 2004, 04:51 PM   #14
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I agree with Larry. For Lessa to be obnoxious, she'd have to be a lot more in-your-face than she was. Yeah, she could be manipulative, but she didn't really lord it over anyone.
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Old Dec 20 2004, 10:15 PM   #15
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My only problem with Lessa is she basically ceases to be her own person after DF--she's F'lar's woman, and at times the hysterical shrew of Benden. She lets F'lar manipulate her too much (like that horribly condescending bit in ATWOP with the 'knock Ramoth up and Lessa's not going anywhere, ha-ha' moment with F'lar and Jaxom. If I were stuck with someone who treated me that way the only thing that would keep me from murdering him would be that Mnementh's a nice dragon.)

My problem with Mirrim is less with the character herself than with the way she gets to bend the rules of the world that the author established (greens are the bottom of the totem pole, full stop) and the WAY she does it--she's boinking the boss. She gets away with sticking her nose in because she's sleeping with T'gellan. And the sense I get from the author is that's okay, which is even more bothersome. Mirrim would be a lot more impressive if she clawed out a place for herself as the first female green rider without the added advantage of being the Weyrleader's bit of fun. Especially as T'gellan is older enough than Mirrim (he's more than a Weyrling when she's a young teen in Dsong/singer) for the bit about his "watching her" in PoP to be creepy. He's also not much of a personality otherwise--it feels like Anne picked a bronze rider and stuck Mirrim with him so yet again, a female dragonrider wouldn't have to be a slut--she she could be a good little female who's sexually loyal to a senior male partner. That's not a problem with the character, that's a problem with the writing.
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Old Dec 20 2004, 10:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

Lessa, Jaxom, Menolly, Aramina, Jayge, T'lion, Readis, Brekke, F'lar, F'nor...

Don't attack me, but I don't like a one of them. There's not a single round character in the 9th pass. Or really, in Anne's books at all. They're completely flat and one-dimensional. Oh, I enjoy the books for fluff reading, but the characters are not well written at all.

Feel free to attack me, but it's the simple truth (in my mind).
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Old Dec 21 2004, 05:36 AM   #17
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

Aramina, who becomes utterly hateful in "Dolphins", the weak-as-water Brekke, and the insufferable Mirrim are the ones I really can't bear. In Mirrim's case, it's not only her officiousness and her sometimes vicious tongue, but the way she will say something horrible, then follow the "victim" around for days, beating her breast and begging forgiveness. Then there's Piemur. He was engaging as a cheeky apprentice, but from "Dragondrums" on, he turns into a surly, unsociable and not very pleasant person at all. I also have a problem with strong women settling into domesticity once they've "got their man". I just don't see Lessa as changing to that degree!
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Old Dec 21 2004, 07:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Jesserli
Lessa, Jaxom, Menolly, Aramina, Jayge, T'lion, Readis, Brekke, F'lar, F'nor...

Don't attack me, but I don't like a one of them. There's not a single round character in the 9th pass. Or really, in Anne's books at all. They're completely flat and one-dimensional. Oh, I enjoy the books for fluff reading, but the characters are not well written at all.

Feel free to attack me, but it's the simple truth (in my mind).
Jesserli I would never attack you for your opinons even if I totally disagree with thoes opinions..

This would be a very dull board if everyone held the same opinion. Part of the fun is - "I don't see it that way" and naturally the feeling that "Oh I must go and re-read that story."
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Old Dec 21 2004, 09:26 AM   #19
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

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Originally Posted by Jesserli
Lessa, Jaxom, Menolly, Aramina, Jayge, T'lion, Readis, Brekke, F'lar, F'nor...

Don't attack me, but I don't like a one of them. There's not a single round character in the 9th pass. Or really, in Anne's books at all. They're completely flat and one-dimensional. Oh, I enjoy the books for fluff reading, but the characters are not well written at all.

Feel free to attack me, but it's the simple truth (in my mind).
I'd agree with you on the 9th Pass, and on most of Anne's other series as well, but I will argue there's one (sorta two) Pern books where the characters are strikingly well-written, especially when placed beside, say, Dragonquest or Renegades--Moreta and Nerilka. For some bizarre reason, Moreta has a complicated, conflicted, tragic heroine who not only can be wrong, but catastrophically so, a hero who's more than a bit of a wet rag at times but who still manages to buck up and pull together and ISN'T rewarded with the love of his life, but rather someone who isn't DESPERATELY romantically in love with him, either, but can learn to be happy. The supporting characters are unusually well-rounded, the villains aren't two-dimensional cutouts who seem to be 'bad' more because it's required to propel the plot than for any logical reason. Even the character who gets Searched and Impresses the gold does it without the usual sense of the good being divinely rewarded--there's a logical build-up to Oklina being chosen, and it's certainly not under the most wonderful circumstances. Throw in the that the plot is substantially less contrived than usual and I am left wondering what the heck happened--why can Anne produce something like Moreta, then turn around and put out Renegades?
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Old Dec 21 2004, 04:54 PM   #20
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I don't usually "get involved" in this sort of discussion but what the Masterharper of Kentucky said made me want to.

I'm another who finds Lessa trying at times, but I think her creater meant it to be that way. Nobody is totally perfect all the time. In real life I sometimes find myself liking people because of their faults and weaknesses more than their lack of them; the same applies to books. And speaking of weakness, I never saw Brekke as being weak. Quite the reverse, in fact. Unless you consider putting the welfare of others ahead of your own a weakness. Just at the moment the only Pern MC I can think of that I just don't like is Menolly. Don't know why, really, she just irks me.
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Old Dec 21 2004, 07:14 PM   #21
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Answers on a postcard

Seriously, that's a great way of putting it, and a question that I find myself at a loss to explain I don't know the answer, I wish I did Suffice it to say that Renegades was head of my list of "least favourite Pern books" until Skies and Dragon's Kin came out...

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I am left wondering what the heck happened--why can Anne produce something like Moreta, then turn around and put out Renegades?
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Old Dec 22 2004, 02:57 AM   #22
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And speaking of weakness, I never saw Brekke as being weak. Quite the reverse, in fact. Unless you consider putting the welfare of others ahead of your own a weakness.
I don't like the idea of abject self-effacement in anyone, for any reason. However, Brekke was patently the wrong personality to be a Weyrwoman. She must've had some potential, or Wirenth would never have chosen her. I just wonder what happened on the way to prevent her from developing it. I'm with Anareth in not liking the way Anne solved Brekke's conflict, instead of making her face her crafter conditioning and grow up, Anne killed off Brekke's dragon so that she could keep her craftbred morals.
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Old Jan 5 2005, 07:06 PM   #23
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I disagree with Jesserli about Anne's characters all being flat. I find them complex, and the complexity is part of the attraction in both fiction and real-life. People change with time, age, and hormones, and I think she illustrates that rather well in her characters. That's why we can dislike Petiron in some books but like him in others. Or like Piemur at times and other times want to wring his neck. You've known people like that -- as a teenager, she might have been a brat or snob, but much improved in her twenties. As another example, I remember discovering in high school that people who were generally horrible when in their "clique" could be quite different, even nice people if you actually had a chance to work with them one-on-one (especially out of the school setting). I didn't care for Petiron in Masterharper of Pern, but I had a twinge of understanding, as I've known people as single-minded as that. And I could also understand why it would be easier for him to have a mentoring relationship with someone else's child rather than his own; part of that too had to do with the pressures of how he felt he was supposed to uphold duties at the Harper Hall versus being able to be himself or another person at Half-Circle Seahold. I've liked Lessa at times, and disliked her at times. True of real people as well.

As a change of subject, isn't there only generally one weyrwoman (or is it The Weyrwoman) in a weyr, but during a pass, several queens? I don't think Brekke ever would have made a good weyrwoman, and I don't think she would have been allowed to be The Weyrwoman for a weyr. She was not going to lose her crafthold inhibitions (which seem rather extreme, and unlike other holders or crafters, but some people are like that), despite having a golden dragon. To me, part of the mating battle and subsequent death was in relation to her inhibitions. She was told again and again what to look for. There were comments in the book by other riders about a queen should be moved from the weyr if about to rise, and while Kylara bore the brunt of shame and responsibility for the battle, Brekke was so terrified of the mating flight that she basically subconsciously tried to deny that it was even going to happen, and deliberately ignored both the signs and her teachings, which was as likely to lead to a disaster of sorts despite the dragons' overtaking of emotions, even if Kylara's dragon hadn't shown up.

I think at Impression, something in a candidate's psyche just calls to the dragon, regardless of the rest of the baggage that comes with the person, which is why some rather unsuitable people become dragonriders.

But back to the main thread here (the other Thread was charred, tee hee!)... I didn't much care for Brekke, but I don't think we're meant to. At times, I didn't care for a lot of other main characters. Overall, I liked the stories of Jaxom and Menolly, for instance, but I didn't necessarily like them as much as they got older.
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Old Jan 6 2005, 03:45 AM   #24
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Every woman who lives in a weyr is techically a weyrwoman, whether or not she actually rides a dragon. Although to be fair, the term usually designates women riders. There is only one Weyrwoman, though, the senior queenrider. So both Mirrim and Lessa are weyrwomen, but only Lessa is a Weyrwoman.

I agree with your analysis re: Brekke. Kylara could have made a good Weyrwoman if Lessa'd taken her in hand rather than just sent her away.

Between Dragonflight and Dragonquest about 7 Turns pass, but I have trouble remembering that sometimes because Anne's characters don't develop much, if at all during that time...
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Old Jan 6 2005, 03:58 PM   #25
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Every woman who lives in a weyr is techically a weyrwoman, whether or not she actually rides a dragon. Although to be fair, the term usually designates women riders. There is only one Weyrwoman, though, the senior queenrider. So both Mirrim and Lessa are weyrwomen, but only Lessa is a Weyrwoman.

I agree with your analysis re: Brekke. Kylara could have made a good Weyrwoman if Lessa'd taken her in hand rather than just sent her away.

Between Dragonflight and Dragonquest about 7 Turns pass, but I have trouble remembering that sometimes because Anne's characters don't develop much, if at all during that time...

I think that the term Weyrwoman refers to queen rider, so both Breeke and Kylara were weyrwomen, but Kyalara was The Weyrwoman of Southern (and then High Reaches)
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Old Jan 6 2005, 08:32 PM   #26
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I also disagree that Kylara would have been fine if Lessa had taken her under her wing (so to speak). Kylara was a bad apple from the start. If I remember correctly, she's Larad's sister (as was a certain other evil woman who created great chaos with the Traders), and she had a major attitude problem even when Searched. She also apparently screwed everything in sight before Impressing her dragon. She was early on quite willful, vain, irresponsible, headstrong, egotistic, and self-serving before becoming a dragonrider; I don't think Lessa could have controlled her in any way. Maybe if she could have bonded more deeply with her dragon, there would have been room for improvement, but she managed to keep a good portion of her psyche out of that bond.
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Old Jan 7 2005, 03:36 AM   #27
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

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I think that the term Weyrwoman refers to queen rider, so both Breeke and Kylara were weyrwomen, but Kyalara was The Weyrwoman of Southern (and then High Reaches)
Weyrwoman (with a small w) refers to more than just queenriders. The capital w designates the senior queenrider, whose dragon's mating flight determines the Weyrleader. Trouble is, for a long time, queenrider=weyrwoman simply because there were no female greenriders.
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Old Jan 7 2005, 09:27 AM   #28
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

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She was early on quite willful, vain, irresponsible, headstrong, egotistic, and self-serving before becoming a dragonrider; I don't think Lessa could have controlled her in any way. Maybe if she could have bonded more deeply with her dragon, there would have been room for improvement, but she managed to keep a good portion of her psyche out of that bond.
Y'know, all those qualities could be used to describe Lessa too.... And I hardly see how they'ds be detremental to a queenrider.

And Lessa didn't have to 'control' Kylara, she needed to _train_ her.
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Old Jan 7 2005, 11:31 AM   #29
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

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Y'know, all those qualities could be used to describe Lessa too.... And I hardly see how they'ds be detremental to a queenrider.

And Lessa didn't have to 'control' Kylara, she needed to _train_ her.
Lessa hadn't been a Weyrwoman for very long! How could she have trained Kylara when she did not have more than a few Turns experience? She was taught by bronze riders and she turned out ok, so why wasn't Kylara taught properly by T'bor???
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Old Jan 7 2005, 07:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

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Lessa hadn't been a Weyrwoman for very long! How could she have trained Kylara when she did not have more than a few Turns experience? She was taught by bronze riders and she turned out ok, so why wasn't Kylara taught properly by T'bor???
How does Lessa do anything? By sheer force of personality. Lessa could have, but she didn't want to even try (and it wouldn't have been easy, that's for certain). She just wanted Kylara away from her man.

And Lessa turned out okay in SPITE of her being trained by bronze riders. As for T'bor, he was a twit more concerned with being *in love* with Kylara and wanting her rather than making a proper Weyrwoman out of her. If he hadn't been such a feeb about it, he might have been able to mold her, but he was a terrible Weyrleader.
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Old Jan 8 2005, 04:33 PM   #31
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

1'm jo1n1ng (1 th1nc 1ts)Anerath's 1 hate Jaxom group.
He's sooo obnox1ous and cruel at t1mes etc.
was read1ng the b1t where Path's proddy and how Jaxom prods at M1rr1m.
Thats cruel!
poss1bly 1ts my hormones sympathys1ng but M1rr1m's already seen bree's worr1es when w1renth rose and 1s l1ely-1s DEF1N1TELY go1ng to be worr1ed! and the comment "You'll be losng mose than your tongue" s awful!
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Old Jan 8 2005, 05:04 PM   #32
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

yeah, well I'd say there are quite a few ones you're meant to like which I don't like Pimur, I think he's an annoying little brat!
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Old Jan 9 2005, 08:37 AM   #33
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

Sorry in advance if I get you all going but Mirrim doesn't qualify for this

You're not supposed to like her

Jaxom, Lessa, F'lar, F'nor, Brekke all qualify, but not Mirrim, nor Kylara

To the writer who felt that the characters were not well-rounded, I can't agree

Simply because they could hardly have generated all these comments if they'd been that flat

Unfortunately I've known a lot of people like Mirrim with foot in mouth disease, who also never seemed to learn from their mistakes

It's a lot easier to stomach in a book character than in real life

Last comment if they all bother you all so much, why are you wasting time writing about them, or more pertinently reading about them
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Old Jan 9 2005, 12:07 PM   #34
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

Whether Mirrim qualifies or not is up to the reader. She does get a lot of perks, as is typical of Anne's main characters. A big role in running the Weyr thanks to being T'gellan's mate, for instance. I don't think she would do that if we weren't supposed to find her relatively sympathetic. She is one of the "good guys" after all.

I certainly like her a lot better than Brekke.
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Old Jan 9 2005, 06:13 PM   #35
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

I've decided I like Mirrim. Its Jaxom I cant stand now!
And renegades is now more favourite than White Dragon!
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Old Jan 9 2005, 07:19 PM   #36
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

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To the writer who felt that the characters were not well-rounded, I can't agree

Simply because they could hardly have generated all these comments if they'd been that flat
[/B]

Uh...I can say a lot about flat characters. Anyone with half a brain and a decent knack for lit-crit could. The characters mentioned are 'flat' in the sense that a lot of them don't particularly grow. F'lar and Lessa did in DF, which is much better-written than later 9th Pass books (reflecting, perhaps, Anne's burnout?) but in following books, they're pretty much always the same. Other characters (the "good" guys, anyway) don't grow because they don't have to--Anne can't bear to make the little darlings be wrong or get SERIOUSLY hurt/denied. (How much you want to bet Golanth is going to make a miraculous recovery, or he'll use TK to fly Zarath, or they'll rediscover stand-ins? Because God forbid Tai have to suck it up and sleep with someone now she's in Luuuuv with F'lessan.) Moreta is a bizarre exception post-DF--she gets a moment of happiness in the midst of trauma, then sacrifices and doesn't get rewarded. In fact pretty much no one does, no matter how good they are. There's such a difference to the handling of characters in Moreta it boggles my mind that books like Renegades came from the same author.

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[B]Last comment if they all bother you all so much, why are you wasting time writing about them, or more pertinently reading about them
Because we don't just accept everything an author does with sheep-like monotony because we like some of what they write? As for writing, it would be a fairly stupid discussion forum if we just sat around agreeing about how we just loved everything about something.
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Old Jan 9 2005, 08:23 PM   #37
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

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[/B]

Uh...I can say a lot about flat characters. Anyone with half a brain and a decent knack for lit-crit could. The characters mentioned are 'flat' in the sense that a lot of them don't particularly grow. F'lar and Lessa did in DF, which is much better-written than later 9th Pass books (reflecting, perhaps, Anne's burnout?) but in following books, they're pretty much always the same. Other characters (the "good" guys, anyway) don't grow because they don't have to--Anne can't bear to make the little darlings be wrong or get SERIOUSLY hurt/denied. (How much you want to bet Golanth is going to make a miraculous recovery, or he'll use TK to fly Zarath, or they'll rediscover stand-ins? Because God forbid Tai have to suck it up and sleep with someone now she's in Luuuuv with F'lessan.) Moreta is a bizarre exception post-DF--she gets a moment of happiness in the midst of trauma, then sacrifices and doesn't get rewarded. In fact pretty much no one does, no matter how good they are. There's such a difference to the handling of characters in Moreta it boggles my mind that books like Renegades came from the same author.



Because we don't just accept everything an author does with sheep-like monotony because we like some of what they write? As for writing, it would be a fairly stupid discussion forum if we just sat around agreeing about how we just loved everything about something.

*applauds* Perfectly said.

Just as a note, there are plenty of flat characters that can lead to in-depth discussions. I can talk for hours about Margaret Atwood's Oryx and Crake, even though there isn't a single round character in the novel!

In many cases, flat characters are perfectly fine. When they are not the centerpoints of action, or are simply there for one specific purpose, it's fine. My beef with many of the Pern books are that MAIN characters are flat, for precisely the reason Anareth states - they're happy-fluffy books. Nothing really horrible ever happens to characters you actually like except in Moreta, and I suppose Skies (but that book was so dreadful I hardly even consider it when discussing the series). If nothing remotely like real life happens to the characters, how could they possibly develop?

I also don't like how each character is there to be completely one-sided almost all of the time. Take Lessa, for example. Lessa is a short angry person, even when she has no real cause to be angry. That rage has to stem from somewhere, and it just doesn't, which is illogical and throws a reader from the flow of the plot.
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Old Mar 17 2005, 10:18 PM   #38
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

Here comes a long list...

Lessa- She's annoying, and she hated fire lizards!

Aramina- Who doesn't hate her? I actually hated her before reading Dolphins of Pern

M'hall- He's a creep !

Sean- He was until he grew up

Wind Blossom- Maybe it is the nature/nurture thing, but she is sort of mean to people...

Jaxom- I don't know why I hate him, I just do- Anyone with ideas why let me know! Makes me feel for Ruth

Queen dragons in general (besides Faranth and Orlith)- Ditto

And the list goes on and on................................................ ....

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Old Mar 19 2005, 11:49 AM   #39
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Mirrim turned out to be a mean person. I don't like mean people in fiction, my day to day life or on message boards.
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Old Mar 19 2005, 12:06 PM   #40
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Default Re: Unlikeable Main characters (was titled Favorite USUAL Character?)

How do you define mean? She definitely had foot in mouth disease and occasionally lashed out at people (Jaxom deserved all he got after teasing her about proddy Path), and I agree that she occasionally put her nose in where it wasn't wanted, but I don't think she ever intentionally set out to hurt people. T'gellan could've taken her down a peg or two, stopped her from going to meetings she had no business at, but he didn't. Whose fault is that?
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