I'm going back to Chile! Twice! - A Meeting of Minds

Kath · Jun 28 2006, 11:35 AM

Today has turned into a very happy day!

I've just heard back from the observatory, and they've given me all the observing time I asked for! 10 hours in service mode, 1 night in early november and a half night in late november.

Now I just have to hope the skies stay clear and the telescope doesn't break!

Lady Maelin · Jun 28 2006, 11:45 AM

Congratulations,

I know you will have a great time. I hope that weather stay great for you when you get there!!!!

**Cheryl** · Jun 28 2006, 11:51 AM

Wonderful! We'll all wish for good weather for you!

So how are such trips paid for -- grant money?

Kath · Jun 28 2006, 11:54 AM

The observatory funds those ones (via the wonderful taxpayers of Europe, of course!) Trips to other places come out of different pots, and some would come out of my own grant funds. But it all boils down to the taxpayer in the end.

***Hans*** · Jun 28 2006, 01:22 PM

Oh wow, congrats Kath! Can you show us where you'll be actually going Kath? And.... do they have a webcam?

c_ris · Jun 28 2006, 01:23 PM

You... you... burden!

Congrats!

**Cheryl** · Jun 28 2006, 02:18 PM

Good stuff, Kath! You remind me of my sis-in-law, who's a post-doc at Oxford in medical imaging. She's busy travelling the world going to various conferences, courtesy of various grants. I think you researchers live far more exciting lives than Hollywood would lead us to believe!

edith · Jun 28 2006, 03:09 PM

ooh brilliant! I've heard of that observatory
Mum has family in Chilie!
holywood gets it wrong soo often! Beautiful mind is a good example of that!

***Anneli*** · Jun 28 2006, 03:34 PM

Ah well, it's good to hear that at least some of the exhorbitant tax I pay is going to a good cause

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kath

The observatory funds those ones (via the wonderful taxpayers of Europe, of course!) Trips to other places come out of different pots, and some would come out of my own grant funds. But it all boils down to the taxpayer in the end.

Kath · Jun 28 2006, 03:45 PM

Gosh, who to reply to first?

Anneli, I think your tax is going elsewhere, as Norway isn't an ESO member. Still, you're funding a lot of ionospheric physics in places like Svalbard, which is really cool and actually useful for something!

Edith, where in Chile do you have family?
The main observatory is up in Paranal (and it has a swimming pool and everything), but I'm off to the other one at La Silla, which has three dogs, wild foxes and some neolithic rock carvings. Here's a picture of me and one of the dogs trying to find the petroglyphs, with one of the telescopes I'll be using in the background:

No web cam though!

Cheryl, yeah, it's a barrel of laughs going on conferences, and they're usually fueled by a few bottles of decent single-malt scotch! I'm off to a conference in the middle of the Dutch wilderness in a couple of weeks (a few miles from the fantastically named town of Dwingeloo), and although I'm working 48hr days in preparation, it'll be wonderful once I'm out there and can afford to relax a bit.

granath · Jun 30 2006, 07:06 AM

Oh, wow! Congrats!

Lady Maelin · Jun 30 2006, 03:26 PM

Kath, They have a wilderness in Holland ??? WOW !! I learn something new everyday, especially in here.

You really do travel all the time,

and go all over the place.

........you are very lucky to be doing something that you love so very much...

Greenrider Tresa · Jun 30 2006, 05:02 PM

Wow! Have fun, Kath.
Did you ever find the petroglyphs?

Kath · Jun 30 2006, 05:02 PM

Well, it's not really a wilderness as such... more of a forest/fields miles from civilisation! But yeah, this is definitely not a good job if you hate travelling.

And yes, I did find the petroglyphs [but it was bloody hard!]. There's some good photos on the webpage of the PhD student I took with me.

Nefermiw · Jun 30 2006, 05:14 PM

And there are donkeys too. They actually got the dogs to keep the donkeys away.

Congrats on getting the observation times.

Must be nice when an application pays off.

***Becky*** · Jun 30 2006, 08:53 PM

Super news, Kath! Have a great trip and enjoy the time in the observatory!

edith · Jul 1 2006, 03:34 PM

I'm not sure- mum says she'll have to find out. Its her uncle and aunt. threy used to live in tambuka or something like that but they had to move back to the uk for a while.

Lady Maelin · Jul 1 2006, 10:13 PM

Good Luck with your project Kath, and come back and let us know how things went and what you saw while you were there. I would love to get a peek into one of those big telescopes, so take a look for me while you are there.!!!

granath · Jul 2 2006, 12:28 PM

Oo, sounds like fun! Clear skies for your observations.

bisbe · Jul 4 2006, 04:17 PM

Congrats! Keeping my fingers crossed for clear skies!

P'ter · Jul 15 2006, 04:33 PM

You're making me "homesick" for my school days.

We had a super telescope lent us from the B.A.A. historic collection: made for the Great Exhibition 1851 by Cooke and presented to Queen Vic. We had a photo of it set up on the terrrace at Osbourne. 6 & 1/4" refractor theoretical max mag 640. We had it on a concrete pillar that stuck up above the cricket pavilion and the observatory was a separate structure that didn't actually touch it.

We did sun spot counts for Herstmonceaux and timed lunar occultations. Once we were fourteen we were allowed to be there any time of day or night without a member of staff. I remember going to a series of lectures in 1959on the then very new radio astronomy, and learning about miles crosses and cambridge interferometers.

Do you know the Doctors Roger and Cindy Griffin at Cambridge?

Jax · Jul 15 2006, 06:46 PM

Coolies Kath!!

Lady Maelin · Jul 16 2006, 11:22 AM

P'ter, that sounds like a wonderful adventure you got to have when you were younger. That telescope sounds as old as the one I found, and used to draw Kath's telescope in her portrait !!!

Kath · Jul 17 2006, 05:07 AM

P'ter, I don't know the Griffins personally - I was based in the other astronomy department while I was at Cambridge. As for all the cambridge interferometers, those I DO know pretty well! Like all the other PhD students and postdocs, I ended up doing quite a lot of public tours of Lord's Bridge Observatory. Good fun, those were!

P'ter · Jul 26 2006, 02:03 PM

I'm a bit more down market these days: a 4" refractor and we've a lot of light pollution being urban. The grandchildren like it though.

**Cheryl** · Aug 17 2006, 02:04 PM

Well, guess what astronomer-friend and author-friend duo of Anne's are in Chili right now, perhaps at the same observatory Kath will be going to?

P'ter · Aug 17 2006, 04:12 PM

Steve Beard and Elizabeth Kerner?

**Cheryl** · Aug 17 2006, 04:54 PM

P'ter gets the prize! (Now where did I stash it....)

StevenB · May 23 2009, 06:23 AM

I missed this thread when it first came out (didn't join MOM until 6 months later). But I found it thanks to the new astronomy forum. Those are some great pictures of La Silla and the petroglyphs, Kath. I hope you had a successful observing run.

I've never been to La Silla - just Cerro Paranal (ESO) and Cerro Pachon (Gemini). The scenery from La Silla looks spectacular. It seems closer to those snow covered mountains. Mind you, the residencia at Paranal is something to behold in its own right.

P'ter · May 23 2009, 06:35 AM

I can just imagine an ancient occupant of the area saying to a slightly less acncient occupant, "Your son has been out carving those glyphs again. I'll really have to report him to the social workers."

jube · May 23 2009, 08:35 AM

Woo hoo, at least there'll be more photos to add to the photo gallery that StevenB set up when he did VISTA. Actually I'm just wondering if you also have a photo gallery up too or have we (Spacedog and myself) somehow missed that particular thread? I've been here nearly 4 years and occasionally miss something that might have been brought up before I came or had a chance to look at.

Kath · May 23 2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevenB

I missed this thread when it first came out (didn't join MOM until 6 months later). But I found it thanks to the new astronomy forum. Those are some great pictures of La Silla and the petroglyphs, Kath. I hope you had a successful observing run.

I've never been to La Silla - just Cerro Paranal (ESO) and Cerro Pachon (Gemini). The scenery from La Silla looks spectacular. It seems closer to those snow covered mountains. Mind you, the residencia at Paranal is something to behold in its own right.

Yes, it was rather a good one. Still working on some of the data mind...

La Silla has the best cooks and local walks, but you can't beat Paranal's residencia, especially the pool!

Jun 28 2006, 11:35 AM	#1
Kath Starsmith Weyrwoman Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Oop North Fan of: Moreta	I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Today has turned into a very happy day! I've just heard back from the observatory, and they've given me all the observing time I asked for! 10 hours in service mode, 1 night in early november and a half night in late november. Now I just have to hope the skies stay clear and the telescope doesn't break!

Jun 28 2006, 11:45 AM	#2
Lady Maelin Master Artist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: California Gender: F Fan of: Pern,The Ship Who Sang Now Reading: Anne's Pern EVERYTHING !	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Congratulations, I know you will have a great time. I hope that weather stay great for you when you get there!!!! __________________ "To the Horsehead Nebula and back we shall make beautiful music"..."Together!" The stories of childhood leave an indelible impression,and their author always has a niche in the temple of memory from which the image is never cut out to be thrown on the rubbish heap of things that are outgrown and outlived........Howard Pyle

Jun 28 2006, 11:51 AM	#3
Cheryl Master Archivist Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Gender: F Fan of: Pern! Now Reading: Paladin of Souls (Bujold)	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Wonderful! We'll all wish for good weather for you! So how are such trips paid for -- grant money? __________________ Visit one of the other sites of Cheryl's Anne McCaffrey Triad: Sariel's Guide to Pern: a detailed guide to the series The Many Works of Anne McCaffrey: largest fan site about Anne and ALL of her works McCaffrey Quest: annual trivia contest.

Jun 28 2006, 11:54 AM	#4
Kath Starsmith Weyrwoman Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Oop North Fan of: Moreta	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! The observatory funds those ones (via the wonderful taxpayers of Europe, of course!) Trips to other places come out of different pots, and some would come out of my own grant funds. But it all boils down to the taxpayer in the end.

Jun 28 2006, 01:22 PM	#5
*Hans* Master Archivist Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Netherlands Gender: M Fan of: Pern!	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Oh wow, congrats Kath! Can you show us where you'll be actually going Kath? And.... do they have a webcam? __________________ Hans, also known as Elrhan, Master Archivist Visit The Pern Museum & Archives for all your Pern and Anne McCaffrey News and Resources! The Pern Museum & Archives is the home of the Pern Encyclopedia and the Pern Bloodlines.

Jun 28 2006, 01:23 PM	#6
c_ris Journeyman Harper Roedin Wing Second Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Great Britain Gender: M Fan of: the Dragonriders of Pern! Now Reading: The Elder Gods - Eddings	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! You... you... burden! Congrats! __________________ Roedin Of Pern "When a harper is silenced, all men should listen harder." AtWoP

Jun 28 2006, 02:18 PM	#7
Cheryl Master Archivist Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Gender: F Fan of: Pern! Now Reading: Paladin of Souls (Bujold)	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Good stuff, Kath! You remind me of my sis-in-law, who's a post-doc at Oxford in medical imaging. She's busy travelling the world going to various conferences, courtesy of various grants. I think you researchers live far more exciting lives than Hollywood would lead us to believe! __________________ Visit one of the other sites of Cheryl's Anne McCaffrey Triad: Sariel's Guide to Pern: a detailed guide to the series The Many Works of Anne McCaffrey: largest fan site about Anne and ALL of her works McCaffrey Quest: annual trivia contest.

Jun 28 2006, 03:09 PM	#8
edith Dragonrider Weyrwoman Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Delft Gender: F Fan of: Most of them :) Now Reading: Don't You Have Time To Think- RP Feynman	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! ooh brilliant! I've heard of that observatory Mum has family in Chilie! holywood gets it wrong soo often! Beautiful mind is a good example of that!

Jun 28 2006, 03:45 PM	#10
Kath Starsmith Weyrwoman Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Oop North Fan of: Moreta	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Gosh, who to reply to first? Anneli, I think your tax is going elsewhere, as Norway isn't an ESO member. Still, you're funding a lot of ionospheric physics in places like Svalbard, which is really cool and actually useful for something! Edith, where in Chile do you have family? The main observatory is up in Paranal (and it has a swimming pool and everything), but I'm off to the other one at La Silla, which has three dogs, wild foxes and some neolithic rock carvings. Here's a picture of me and one of the dogs trying to find the petroglyphs, with one of the telescopes I'll be using in the background: No web cam though! Cheryl, yeah, it's a barrel of laughs going on conferences, and they're usually fueled by a few bottles of decent single-malt scotch! I'm off to a conference in the middle of the Dutch wilderness in a couple of weeks (a few miles from the fantastically named town of Dwingeloo), and although I'm working 48hr days in preparation, it'll be wonderful once I'm out there and can afford to relax a bit.

Jun 30 2006, 07:06 AM	#11
granath Talent Tower Prime Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Proud Mom! Gender: F Fan of: Afra Lyon Now Reading: Faye Upton: Dragonchoice 3	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Oh, wow! Congrats! __________________ Decaf coffee is an oxymoron. Instant coffee is an abomination. Give me the real thing and nobody gets hurt. "Do. Or do not. There is no try" -- Yoda VP of the Afra Lyon fan club!

Jun 30 2006, 03:26 PM	#12
Lady Maelin Master Artist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: California Gender: F Fan of: Pern,The Ship Who Sang Now Reading: Anne's Pern EVERYTHING !	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Kath, They have a wilderness in Holland ??? WOW !! I learn something new everyday, especially in here. You really do travel all the time, and go all over the place. ........you are very lucky to be doing something that you love so very much... __________________ "To the Horsehead Nebula and back we shall make beautiful music"..."Together!" The stories of childhood leave an indelible impression,and their author always has a niche in the temple of memory from which the image is never cut out to be thrown on the rubbish heap of things that are outgrown and outlived........Howard Pyle

Jun 30 2006, 05:02 PM	#13
Greenrider Tresa The Contrary Planetary Brain Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Gender: F Fan of: The Ship Who Searched Now Reading: The Calhoun Collection, Nora Roberts	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Wow! Have fun, Kath. Did you ever find the petroglyphs? __________________ Thinking, understanding, reasoning, willing, call not these Soul! They are its actions, but they are not its essence. Akhenaton? (c. B.C. 1375) Egyptian King and Monotheist

Jun 30 2006, 05:14 PM	#15
Nefermiw Ballybran Resident Caterer's Assistant Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Lund, Sweden Gender: F Fan of: The Crystal Singer series Now Reading: anything on my eReader	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! And there are donkeys too. They actually got the dogs to keep the donkeys away. Congrats on getting the observation times. Must be nice when an application pays off.

Jun 30 2006, 08:53 PM	#16
*Becky* Coelura Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Washington Gender: F Fan of: Fav character - Lunzie Now Reading: Love reading Lanen's books too	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Super news, Kath! Have a great trip and enjoy the time in the observatory! __________________ Becky aka Coelura1

Jul 1 2006, 03:34 PM	#17
edith Dragonrider Weyrwoman Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Delft Gender: F Fan of: Most of them :) Now Reading: Don't You Have Time To Think- RP Feynman	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! I'm not sure- mum says she'll have to find out. Its her uncle and aunt. threy used to live in tambuka or something like that but they had to move back to the uk for a while.

Jul 1 2006, 10:13 PM	#18
Lady Maelin Master Artist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: California Gender: F Fan of: Pern,The Ship Who Sang Now Reading: Anne's Pern EVERYTHING !	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Good Luck with your project Kath, and come back and let us know how things went and what you saw while you were there. I would love to get a peek into one of those big telescopes, so take a look for me while you are there.!!! __________________ "To the Horsehead Nebula and back we shall make beautiful music"..."Together!" The stories of childhood leave an indelible impression,and their author always has a niche in the temple of memory from which the image is never cut out to be thrown on the rubbish heap of things that are outgrown and outlived........Howard Pyle

Jul 2 2006, 12:28 PM	#19
granath Talent Tower Prime Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Proud Mom! Gender: F Fan of: Afra Lyon Now Reading: Faye Upton: Dragonchoice 3	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Oo, sounds like fun! Clear skies for your observations. __________________ Decaf coffee is an oxymoron. Instant coffee is an abomination. Give me the real thing and nobody gets hurt. "Do. Or do not. There is no try" -- Yoda VP of the Afra Lyon fan club!

Jul 4 2006, 04:17 PM	#20
bisbe Member Curlycorn Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wisconsin Gender: F Fan of: All of them Now Reading: the one from the library!	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Congrats! Keeping my fingers crossed for clear skies!

Jul 15 2006, 04:33 PM	#21
P'ter Crafter Craftmaster Join Date: May 2006 Location: Wolverhampton Gender: M Fan of: Favorite? Now Reading: avidly	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! You're making me "homesick" for my school days. We had a super telescope lent us from the B.A.A. historic collection: made for the Great Exhibition 1851 by Cooke and presented to Queen Vic. We had a photo of it set up on the terrrace at Osbourne. 6 & 1/4" refractor theoretical max mag 640. We had it on a concrete pillar that stuck up above the cricket pavilion and the observatory was a separate structure that didn't actually touch it. We did sun spot counts for Herstmonceaux and timed lunar occultations. Once we were fourteen we were allowed to be there any time of day or night without a member of staff. I remember going to a series of lectures in 1959on the then very new radio astronomy, and learning about miles crosses and cambridge interferometers. Do you know the Doctors Roger and Cindy Griffin at Cambridge? __________________ "Truth is stranger than fiction: fiction has to make sense." Leo Rosten. "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." C. S. Lewis "I find television very educational. Whenever somebody switches it on I go in the other room and read a book." (attributed to Groucho Marx) The Pedants are revolting! (against bad grammar)

Jul 15 2006, 06:46 PM	#22
Jax Senior Member Latent Talent Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Brisbane Gender: F Fan of: DDawn 1st read, love all Now Reading: MagicKingdom4salesold ArtemisF	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Coolies Kath!!

Jul 16 2006, 11:22 AM	#23
Lady Maelin Master Artist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: California Gender: F Fan of: Pern,The Ship Who Sang Now Reading: Anne's Pern EVERYTHING !	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! P'ter, that sounds like a wonderful adventure you got to have when you were younger. That telescope sounds as old as the one I found, and used to draw Kath's telescope in her portrait !!! __________________ "To the Horsehead Nebula and back we shall make beautiful music"..."Together!" The stories of childhood leave an indelible impression,and their author always has a niche in the temple of memory from which the image is never cut out to be thrown on the rubbish heap of things that are outgrown and outlived........Howard Pyle

Jul 17 2006, 05:07 AM	#24
Kath Starsmith Weyrwoman Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Oop North Fan of: Moreta	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! P'ter, I don't know the Griffins personally - I was based in the other astronomy department while I was at Cambridge. As for all the cambridge interferometers, those I DO know pretty well! Like all the other PhD students and postdocs, I ended up doing quite a lot of public tours of Lord's Bridge Observatory. Good fun, those were!

Jul 26 2006, 02:03 PM	#25
P'ter Crafter Craftmaster Join Date: May 2006 Location: Wolverhampton Gender: M Fan of: Favorite? Now Reading: avidly	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! I'm a bit more down market these days: a 4" refractor and we've a lot of light pollution being urban. The grandchildren like it though. __________________ "Truth is stranger than fiction: fiction has to make sense." Leo Rosten. "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." C. S. Lewis "I find television very educational. Whenever somebody switches it on I go in the other room and read a book." (attributed to Groucho Marx) The Pedants are revolting! (against bad grammar)

Aug 17 2006, 02:04 PM	#26
Cheryl Master Archivist Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Gender: F Fan of: Pern! Now Reading: Paladin of Souls (Bujold)	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Well, guess what astronomer-friend and author-friend duo of Anne's are in Chili right now, perhaps at the same observatory Kath will be going to? __________________ Visit one of the other sites of Cheryl's Anne McCaffrey Triad: Sariel's Guide to Pern: a detailed guide to the series The Many Works of Anne McCaffrey: largest fan site about Anne and ALL of her works McCaffrey Quest: annual trivia contest.

Aug 17 2006, 04:12 PM	#27
P'ter Crafter Craftmaster Join Date: May 2006 Location: Wolverhampton Gender: M Fan of: Favorite? Now Reading: avidly	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Steve Beard and Elizabeth Kerner? __________________ "Truth is stranger than fiction: fiction has to make sense." Leo Rosten. "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." C. S. Lewis "I find television very educational. Whenever somebody switches it on I go in the other room and read a book." (attributed to Groucho Marx) The Pedants are revolting! (against bad grammar)

Aug 17 2006, 04:54 PM	#28
Cheryl Master Archivist Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Gender: F Fan of: Pern! Now Reading: Paladin of Souls (Bujold)	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! P'ter gets the prize! (Now where did I stash it....) __________________ Visit one of the other sites of Cheryl's Anne McCaffrey Triad: Sariel's Guide to Pern: a detailed guide to the series The Many Works of Anne McCaffrey: largest fan site about Anne and ALL of her works McCaffrey Quest: annual trivia contest.

May 23 2009, 06:23 AM	#29
StevenB Bitsmith/Starsmith, Master Sneak Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Scotland Gender: M Fan of: Skies of Pern: what else? Now Reading: My computer screen	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! I missed this thread when it first came out (didn't join MOM until 6 months later). But I found it thanks to the new astronomy forum. Those are some great pictures of La Silla and the petroglyphs, Kath. I hope you had a successful observing run. I've never been to La Silla - just Cerro Paranal (ESO) and Cerro Pachon (Gemini). The scenery from La Silla looks spectacular. It seems closer to those snow covered mountains. Mind you, the residencia at Paranal is something to behold in its own right. __________________ Steven

May 23 2009, 06:35 AM	#30
P'ter Crafter Craftmaster Join Date: May 2006 Location: Wolverhampton Gender: M Fan of: Favorite? Now Reading: avidly	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! I can just imagine an ancient occupant of the area saying to a slightly less acncient occupant, "Your son has been out carving those glyphs again. I'll really have to report him to the social workers." __________________ "Truth is stranger than fiction: fiction has to make sense." Leo Rosten. "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." C. S. Lewis "I find television very educational. Whenever somebody switches it on I go in the other room and read a book." (attributed to Groucho Marx) The Pedants are revolting! (against bad grammar) Last edited by P'ter; May 23 2009 at 11:35 AM.

May 23 2009, 08:35 AM	#31
jube Dolphineer Journeywoman Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Australia Gender: F Fan of: Dragons of Pern Now Reading: Puzzles and my thesaurus!	Re: I'm going back to Chile! Twice! Woo hoo, at least there'll be more photos to add to the photo gallery that StevenB set up when he did VISTA. Actually I'm just wondering if you also have a photo gallery up too or have we (Spacedog and myself) somehow missed that particular thread? I've been here nearly 4 years and occasionally miss something that might have been brought up before I came or had a chance to look at. __________________ Dolphineer Journeywoman and part-time researcher.... Find me on ebay..... Here'tis!

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