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Old Aug 23 2011, 01:27 PM   #1
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Default After The Fall

In the notes at the beginning of Dragon's Time, Anne mentions that she's working on After The Fall. Does anyone know any details beyond that? I didn't realize there was going to be another Pern book and can't imagine another one after All the Weyrs. She also mentioned sharing her characters, does that mean that Todd is going to continue those characters as well or that After The Fall is going to be a collaboration?
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Old Aug 23 2011, 04:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: After The Fall

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In the notes at the beginning of Dragon's Time, Anne mentions that she's working on After The Fall. Does anyone know any details beyond that? I didn't realize there was going to be another Pern book and can't imagine another one after All the Weyrs. She also mentioned sharing her characters, does that mean that Todd is going to continue those characters as well or that After The Fall is going to be a collaboration?
After "All The Weyrs"? So, you missed Dolphins of Pern and Skies of Pern?
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Old Aug 23 2011, 04:45 PM   #3
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The ones Todd has written takes place long before the 9 (I think) pass, the main one Anne writes about.
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Old Aug 23 2011, 04:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: After The Fall

Woops, I did not miss Dolphins or Skies. In my non-caffinated haze this morning I typed the wrong book title.

I see that the ones Todd has written are in an earlier pass, I'm referencing the beginning notes to Dragon's Time (which is the new one) where Anne says after this series of books is completed, she might 'learn to share' her characters. She also referenced a title of a book she was working on titled "After The Fall". So my curiosity is if anyone knew if they were working on books with F'Lar/Lessa and Co. together, or more detail about this.
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Old Aug 24 2011, 11:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: After The Fall

The project (of the last book) is on a definite hold.
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Old Aug 24 2011, 07:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: After The Fall

Definite hold? Why'd they publish that tidbit in the book in June then? (I don't mean this to question you, since i'm guessing you have way more knowledge than me, just genuinely curious) From what I googled, this was something that's been worked on for awhile then was on hold so I assumed it was something that is off hold now.
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Old Aug 24 2011, 09:12 PM   #7
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Hans - do you think we'll ever see another book tying up all the lose ends from "Skies" ?
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Old Aug 24 2011, 10:01 PM   #8
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It would be so awseome if After the Fall got finished and published!
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Old Aug 25 2011, 01:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: After The Fall

It sure would. There's so many lose ends - and I should hate to see F'lessan and Golanth not able to fly any more

But: I do NOT like the name After the Fall. I'm sure something more suitable could be found.
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Old Aug 25 2011, 10:46 AM   #10
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Default Re: After The Fall

after the fall is just a "working titel", Anne explained that quite a while ago on here website. As I understood it the first draft was completed and she has to do the rewriting and stuff like that now. I hope it will be out someday. The story is not finished yet.
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Old Aug 25 2011, 11:46 AM   #11
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Default Re: After The Fall

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It sure would. There's so many lose ends - and I should hate to see F'lessan and Golanth not able to fly any more
I'd love it, actually. It would be nice to see Tai have to deal with her dragon getting flown by someone else and to see a major character get some lasting nasty consequences instead of "good things happen to good people."

And I agree about the title, I really dislike it.
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Old Aug 25 2011, 12:18 PM   #12
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I need to reread the series. I barely remember the last books.
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Old Aug 25 2011, 02:06 PM   #13
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Lily, to be totally honest..., no. But hoping to be wrong of course!

As for the title, only english speakers dislike it
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Old Aug 25 2011, 02:52 PM   #14
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Default Re: After The Fall

As English-speakers make up the overwhelming majority of the readers....

It makes me think of that ancient song "After the Ball is Over", and it's not very indicative/dramatic. (Also I dislike the "the", unless there was something in particular about THAT fall, other than it being the last ever...)

Could be worse, could be puns on 'thread.'
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Old Aug 25 2011, 06:45 PM   #15
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Default Re: After The Fall

Totally agree with you Anareth. And as a youngster, I heard some Rude Words to that song!

I'm sure some of our very inventive members could find some good names for a final book????
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Old Aug 25 2011, 09:44 PM   #16
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As for the title, only english speakers dislike it
Not entirely true... I actually quite like the title myself.
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Old Aug 25 2011, 11:22 PM   #17
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If anything, it should be called "After the Pass". Or "The Final Fall".
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Old Aug 26 2011, 02:02 AM   #18
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Default Re: After The Fall

I seem to recall reading an alternate title for After The Fall somewhere a while back, but I could be wrong. It does seem a bit of an odd title as it doesn't really fit in with the established title conventions - aside from RSR (unless you count the DE titling), all the titles have either been "Dragonsomething" or "Something Of Pern", or something along those lines. Sounds a bit like a short story title.

I also dislike the idea of Golanth being unable to fly - while indeed it would be an interesting idea, I prefer reading happy endings. Besides, it did seem to me that they were leaving the option for him to fly again (all that ambiguity about things for nothing? Surely it was leading up to something). On the other hand, it would be an opportunity for Anne to show that "arrangements" during the flights is possible.

If possible, I'd love to see a map in this book showing how far the Southern Continent has been recolonised. Failing that, a description in a paragraph! I wonder if any characters should be killed off even? I imagine the book could easily end many years later with F'lar and Lessa going Between together with their dragons. What about Lytol? There could even be a subtle way of suggesting he and Larth reunited similar to BB just be adding a few vague lines to a paragraph, although it's more likely something like that would come out clunky.

As for alternate titles...If it's going to be the last book in terms of chronology, then "Dragondusk" springs to mind, which would sort of poetically link it to Dragonsdawn, and mean the two mark the absolute beginning and end of the series when placed on a bookshelf in chronological order. The only problem with that title is that it sounds like it's the end of things for the Dragons.
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Old Aug 26 2011, 05:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: After The Fall

Given Annes current health we may never get this final book. She announced that the first draft was written in 2007.
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Old Aug 26 2011, 10:38 AM   #20
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Well seeing as majority ruled that Todd's books are "out of the ordinary" for Pern, perhaps her daughter Gigi may be qualified to write the future history of Pern.
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Old Aug 26 2011, 12:30 PM   #21
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I would honestly prefer to see it opened to professional established authors, ideally those who've demonstrated an ability to write in established worlds. Even in collaboration with Todd or Gigi to clean up whatever Anne's got done on it. Just being family and having written something before doesn't really guarantee quality output.
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Old Aug 26 2011, 12:45 PM   #22
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Given Annes current health we may never get this final book. She announced that the first draft was written in 2007.
Ahh, I didn't know this. I want Anne to be healthy, darnit.
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Old Aug 26 2011, 03:14 PM   #23
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As English-speakers make up the overwhelming majority of the readers....

It makes me think of that ancient song "After the Ball is Over", and it's not very indicative/dramatic. (Also I dislike the "the", unless there was something in particular about THAT fall, other than it being the last ever...)

Could be worse, could be puns on 'thread.'
Yes, that's what the majority of English readers give as a reason and frankly I don't care and I think Anne doesn't either.

As for the final Pern writing by her hand. I hope for one more short story, featuring Lessa and F'lar. It will probabbly be a sweet one, but I don't care. I want to see them live to see the end of thread! And if that short story is named "After the Fall is over" I won't care in the slightest!!
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Old Aug 26 2011, 03:17 PM   #24
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I would honestly prefer to see it opened to professional established authors, ideally those who've demonstrated an ability to write in established worlds. Even in collaboration with Todd or Gigi to clean up whatever Anne's got done on it. Just being family and having written something before doesn't really guarantee quality output.
No chance. And I disagree with you. I'd rather no more Pern be written and Todd (and Gigi if she ever decides to write) start fresh with something they themselves have devised.

Letting other writers in on Pern would disturb me as much as letting writers in on Tolkien's Middle Earth... (and yes, I don't like what his son has written).
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Old Aug 26 2011, 03:20 PM   #25
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Oh, and as titles go. Del Rey wants "dragon" in the title. They're afraid that if that word is omitted the (juvenile) readers won't buy the books *rolleyes - sigh*
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Old Aug 26 2011, 04:26 PM   #26
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As for the final Pern writing by her hand. I hope for one more short story, featuring Lessa and F'lar. It will probabbly be a sweet one, but I don't care. I want to see them live to see the end of thread! And if that short story is named "After the Fall is over" I won't care in the slightest!!
I'd buy that. And cry.

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No chance. And I disagree with you. I'd rather no more Pern be written and Todd (and Gigi if she ever decides to write) start fresh with something they themselves have devised.

Letting other writers in on Pern would disturb me as much as letting writers in on Tolkien's Middle Earth... (and yes, I don't like what his son has written).
Yeah, that almost never seems to work out, not just with LotR, but look at Dune too. I mean if Pern were a series where there was really one centralized plot like Wheel of Time, I'd get bringing in a writer to complete it, but even with the loose ends, Pern feels pretty complete and all of us here can pretty much imagine the resolutions to the dangling plot threads.

I think serializing these characters under other authors would weaken their characterizations, and that's Anne's strongest suit as a writer in my opinion, so I'd rather have her work stand as well.

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Oh, and as titles go. Del Rey wants "dragon" in the title. They're afraid that if that word is omitted the (juvenile) readers won't buy the books *rolleyes - sigh*
I wasn't aware that juvenilles *read*
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Old Aug 26 2011, 05:56 PM   #27
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Kindan - books will no doubt be put out in ebooks automatically by then!!!
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Old Aug 27 2011, 08:10 PM   #28
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wasn't aware that juvenilles *read*
hey! I do! (and would read any pern book by anne regardless of the title)
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Old Aug 27 2011, 09:59 PM   #29
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Default Re: After The Fall

I kind of understood switching "Red Star Rising' out on the basis of it REALLY sounds like a technothriller title, but the obsessive need to put "Dragon" in EVERY title seems a little over the top. "All the Weyrs of Pern" is the best title in the series, it doesn't have "Dragon" in it.
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Old Aug 28 2011, 06:25 AM   #30
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Now here I do agree with you, Anareth On both counts.
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Old Aug 28 2011, 01:06 PM   #31
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I kind of understood switching "Red Star Rising' out on the basis of it REALLY sounds like a technothriller title, but the obsessive need to put "Dragon" in EVERY title seems a little over the top. "All the Weyrs of Pern" is the best title in the series, it doesn't have "Dragon" in it.
I too but If they want to add it just for chat sake, Red Star Rising: The Second Chronicles of Pern would have worked,
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Old Aug 29 2011, 12:23 AM   #32
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hey! I do! (and would read any pern book by anne regardless of the title)
Or is it you read and therefore you're not juvenile? Philosophical questions on a forum about dragons for a Sunday night.

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"All the Weyrs of Pern" is the best title in the series
Maybe even the best title for an Anne McCaffrey book period. I wish I could come up with titles that great.
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Old Aug 29 2011, 04:03 PM   #33
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I actually like the title After the Fall.

The thing that amuses me about the title All The Weyrs of Pern is that it's a title that is based on two made-up words: Weyr, and Pern. Yet, for all of that, it IS one of the best titles in the series. It's also a title a newer writer likely wouldn't be able to get away with, BECAUSE it has two "nonsense" words in it. So it's like...a title that gets to be awesome only because AMC proved to be an awesome writer. It defines itself instead of following a fad. And that's pretty nifty.

As for other authors following in AMC's shoes if Pern was ever opened up beyond family...it would be hard. Very, very hard. I do Pern fanfic based on 9th Pass characters, and there's a yawning, gaping chasm between fanfic and pro fic. On the fanfic side, you got folks like us on this forum, who (literally) know our canon (insofar as how it was released in print) better than AMC. But nitpicking-does-not-an-author-make; the fanfic world is really soft on criticism and you can get a lot of pats on the back for writing that would be mediocre at best if pro. Lots of opportunity to rest on your laurels and stagnate creatively, so bringing a fan-writer in to continue the series wouldn't necessarily be a winner. Not to mention letting fan drama and fan wank in OFFICIALLY (ye gods!) to muddy things. (Why did THAT fan get an invite to write, but not meeeeee???) On the other side you have pro writers who would, inevitably, be crucified for not being AMC with her voice or style, and for not being "good enough", if their books were supposed to be "canon". Particularly if they also had to abide by any arbitrary rules, which is good for watering down plot into boringness. And they'd also pay for missing any small fandom nitpicks if they were not slavish enough fans in their youth. (Todd's work seems to be wedged in the odd position of not meshing with known canon very well, thus getting the dander up of long-time fans, and also not having writing chops strong enough to overcome this by sheer force of awesome storytelling or "voice".)

The only way I see it working at all would be if Pern was rebooted, and it was stated, very clearly, to be inspired by but not in the canon timeline of the original DRoP. Examples of this working are Baum's Wizard of Oz series being rebooted by Gregory Maguire with the book Wicked (which spawned the musical), and H. Beam Piper's Little Fuzzy series being rebooted by John Scalzi's recently-released Fuzzy Nation book. You could also make an argument that Lev Grossman's The Magicians is a retold Narnia (although it wanders much farther from its roots). This makes a clear distinction that there will be differences, allowing the stories to be judged on their own merits again, instead of in the shadow of the originals.

Pern actually got a small taste of this with the Pern TV show script; I know not everyone agrees with me on this, but I thought that script was pretty fantastic, if you consider other things Ron Moore worked on like the Battlestar Galactica reboot and Carnivale (even though at the time neither of those had been made yet). It wasn't book-canon 9th Pass Pern as AMC writes it, but it cut down into the root of some characters and themes and set up the stage for an awesome-sauce tv series. When I read it, I thought I smelled a gray-to-gray dual-arc with Lytol starting as a villain and becoming more heroic as the series progressed, and Robinton probably starting out shiny white and getting more manipulative as time went on (although Robinton wasn't actually in the script if I recall, so I might just be hugely projecting because I wuv him <3 ). There was also the possibility of the green rider leaving whats-her-face for another man, leaving it open for "What, didn't the big green dragon tip you off to which way his thread fell?" character arcs. Was it Anne's Pern? No. (Or rather, "HAHAHAHA. No.") Would it have brought Pern to another generation in an off-kilter but *interesting* way? Oh yes.
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Old Aug 30 2011, 01:50 AM   #34
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Anne isn't one of my favorite authors so I maybe a bit different than most of you but one of my favorite Pern books is Dragonchoice the fan fic lol. I'd say it is a semi reboot.
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Old Aug 30 2011, 06:43 AM   #35
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I think that about the only author who could do Anne justice is Elizabeth Moon.
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Old Aug 30 2011, 01:03 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Canker View Post
Anne isn't one of my favorite authors so I maybe a bit different than most of you but one of my favorite Pern books is Dragonchoice the fan fic lol. I'd say it is a semi reboot.
See, there's a case where I think the fic is better-written (for a modern reader, anyway) than most of the Pern books, and far better than Todd's (his are just not good from a technical standpoint, and no, being more "YA" does not excuse that. The HHT is technically "YA" and isn't signficantly different from the "adult" books.) I find the earlier Pern books quaint at best now. And in a couple cases, they're structural hot messes (Dragonquest in particular. I would truly love to know what the "awful" first draft Anne burned contained if this is the 'improved' version. I'd also like to know where Moreta came from as it's head and shoulders above the rest in pretty much all categories. Maybe, because Anne had the basic ending already set, and because she wasn't going from short to novella to series, it was easier to sit down and write one solid book, while the Ninth Pass just...kind of took off on its own.)

And no matter who else writes it, people will complain. But I think having someone who, unlike Todd, is a proven best-seller and knows how to work with other people's toys, might come off better. (Also, someone getting paid professionally might have the patience to sit down and hash out things like date problems and inconsistencies.)

I wouldn't especially want to see anyone write the Ninth Pass, though. Not even Todd. MAYBE Gigi if she helped her mother polish up a quick ending. BUt besides that there's not much ground left to cover on any of the characters, it just wouldn't seem right.
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Old Aug 30 2011, 01:41 PM   #37
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I've always thought that a lot of Anne's best work has come from the first immediate expansion of a short story. Her sequels have a tendency to pall, but given a nice, tight set-up she does crack out some very readable books.
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Old Aug 30 2011, 05:54 PM   #38
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Is Gigi a writer? Please excuse ignorance on my part if she is, but what qualifications does she have to write in Anne's world?
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Old Aug 30 2011, 08:48 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily View Post
Is Gigi a writer? Please excuse ignorance on my part if she is, but what qualifications does she have to write in Anne's world?
She has done proofreading for her mom, I think Moreta if I recall right
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Old Aug 30 2011, 10:08 PM   #40
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I would personally hate to see a Pern book without the name McCaffrey on it.
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