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Old Dec 12 2009, 08:46 PM   #1
Almaron
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Default The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

Four of the northern Weyrs have been mapped and included in the Atlas of Pern. Fort and High Reaches were described in detail in Moreta, Ista covered in The White Dragon, and Benden detailed more than any other Weyr. But what about Igen and Telgar? Both have only been focused on in one book each, Dragonheart and Red Star Rising/Dragonseye, respectively. Someone has to map them, so here's a start:

First of all, I looked through the Atlas to note characteristics of each Weyr, or architectural elements that were the same.

*At Fort, Benden & High Reaches, the Hatching Grounds are located at the northern part of the Bowl, opposite the lake, which is at the south end.
*At Fort, Benden & High Reaches, the Kitchens are located on the wall opposite the Weyrling Barracks. At Fort, the barracks are on the west wall, and the kitchens on the east. At Benden and High Reaches, the kitchens are on the west, and the barracks to the east.
*Junior Queens and the Weyrleaders complex are always located near the Hatching Grounds. At Fort, the Junior Queen weyrs are next to the complex on the west side, at Benden, High Reaches and Ista, the Weyrleaders complex is located on the east, and the Junior Queen weyrs are to the west.
*The feeding grounds/animal corrals are located between the Weyrling Barracks and the lake at each of the four weyrs.
*The ground entrances to the Weyrs lead to (or near) the main hold at Fort and Benden and (presumably) Telgar. Igen and Ista are too far away from any holds (Igen has desert on one side, and empty lands on the other, and Ista is surrounded by forests), and High Reaches, if it has an entrance, would be on the southwest wall of the Weyr.
*Fort's ground entrance leads into the kitchens. Benden's does too, but it also has a tunnel leading straight into the bowl.
*The Weyrleaders complex was always on the opposite wall to the kitchens, except at Ista, where it was almost next to it.
*At Fort, Benden & High Reaches, the seats in the Hatching Grounds were located on the east wall. Ista's were not visible. Something to note is that Benden & High Reaches seats are located on the same side as their Weyrleader Complex, while Fort's isn't. Ista's is surrounded by the Junior Weyrs and the complex.

Of course, since each was made out of an old volcano, there is no guarantee that the caverns would have formed in the same place.

Ista was the odd Weyr out in most cases. Their hatching ground was located in the due northeast wall of the weyr, the kitchens on the south wall, and the Weyrling Barracks at the northernmost point. Oddly, the compass direction north on the Ista closeup was at odds with the location given on the larger map, which showed north on the closeup as being northwest.

The next thing I did was look through Red Star Rising, hoping to find notes that would allow me to map Telgar. I didn't find much, but I did find that:

*The hatching grounds are shaped like an ampitheatre, and the guests had to walk across the sands to get to their seats. It may be located opposite the Weyr entrance, as Debera enters the Weyr, and can see people impressing.
*Telgar's lake is located to the right of the Weyrling Barracks (T’dam points to the right, presumably Debera’s right).
*Despite the corrals being inbetween the lake and the barracks, Debera makes no mention of a pen as she heads towards the lake.
*Telgar's kitchen is located on the west wall of the Weyr, and consists of several differently sized caverns. The smallest one has ovens all over the entrance wall, but appears to be the main dining room inside. Corridors lead from it to storerooms.
*Telgar's kitchen is located "across the quadrant" from the lake.
*Apparently, Telgar's entrance was carved in the thinnest wall of the weyr, which, if it is in the west wall (presumably, as that's where the river route is), seems strange, as Telgar's west wall, depicted from a distance in the Atlas, appears to be the biggest wall.
*Telgar's entrance is separate from the kitchens, as Debera's father looks towards them before being led out through a different passage.
*Telgar has a similar cavern layout to Benden's; in that the Kitchen caverns lead to a large sleeping area (Benden and Telgar are of similar sizes, if that's of any interest).
*The Weyrleader's complex was "two flaps" away from the kitchen cavern. It is also "across the bowl" from wherever K'vin told off P'tero.
*The eastern wall may have less ground rooms on it, as it is often used for sunning, and it is mentioned that dragons looked out from their weyrs here. No indication is made to a building in the area.

With this information, it is possible that the Hatching Grounds, the Junior Queen weyrs, and the Weyrleaders complex are located in the south (odd, considering the north wall seems to be the largest in the Atlas picture), the Kitchens in the west, and the barracks on the east wall, with the lake to the north. And if that's right, someone just needs to draw it up and Presto! Telgar Weyr is mapped!

Something else of interest in RSR is that it is stated that the star stones are located on the eastern edge of every Weyr, so that they will catch the rising Red Star. Fort and High Reaches have theirs on the east wall. Ista has theirs on their North wall (or possibly northeast, if the compass is wrong), but it appears to go around a spindle, so it may still face east. Benden's is located to the north, but since that is the highest point of the Benden volcano, it is not obscured.

Unfortunately, I returned the copy of Dragonheart I was reading to the library before I had a chance to look through it for clues about Igen. The only real bit of information I have is from the DLG, which states that the rim of the volcano has been eroded into sharp and interesting patterns by the desert wind, so the west wall will look strange. The Atlas map shows it looking rather ordinary, but, like Telgar, when the map was drawn these areas hadn't yet been visited. The map shows that there could be an entrance anywhere on the east side, or possibly a western route leading to the desert. Anyone with a copy of Dragonheart handy, please add any observations to this page, so that this Weyr can be mapped!

So yeah, read, and add to this if you have anything. Maybe Monaco Bay Weyr could be mapped next (Ugh, more work for me)!

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Old Dec 12 2009, 09:30 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

Oh, and here's a quick description of the other Weyrs.

FORT: Largest Crater with pointed end, and a large mountain behind it.
Bowl: NE-SW
Hatching grounds on northeast/east wall, seats on south
Weyrleader's complex and Junior queens on north wall.
Weyrling barracks on west wall.
Lake (and rockfall) to the south.
Corral inbetween Barracks and Lake.
Kitchen Caverns to east.
Weyr entrance through lower caverns (ESE).
Star stones more or less inbetween Kitchens & Hatching grounds.

BENDEN: Large volcano.
Bowl: N-S, gets smaller towards middle, then opens up again.
Hatching grounds on north wall, seats on east.
Weyrleader's complex to right of Hatching grounds.
Junior queens to left of Hatching grounds.
Kitchens and lower caverns (and Old rooms) to west.
Lake to south.
Barracks on the south end of east wall.
Corral inbetween barracks and lake.
Weyr entrance on SW side, accessed through bowl and kitchens.
Star stones on rim above Hatching grounds.

HIGH REACHES. Hard rock with seven "spindles" caused by lava flow.
Bowl: N-S, looks twice (possibly three times) the width of other bowls.
Hatching grounds to north, seats on east.
Weyrleader's complex to right of Hatching grounds.
Junior queens to left of Hatching grounds.
Kitchens and lower caverns to west.
Lake to south.
Barracks on east wall, next to Weyrleaders.
Corral inbetween barracks and lake.
Star stones above corral.
(High Reaches has harder rock, the kitchen caverns and barracks were external buildings until the 6th Pass.)

ISTA: Several spindles (5?), side of volcano missing.
Bowl: NW-SE, NW side of volcano has collapsed, revealing the bay.
Hatching grounds in middle of the NE side of the volcano, seats on southeast.
Weyrleader's complex to the right of hatching grounds.
Junior queens to left of Hatching grounds.
Kitchens on south wall, lower caverns on east wall.
No lake, bay used instead.
Barracks at northernmost point.
Corral located on plateau at gap in volcano, between bay and barracks.
Plateau exists beyond corral, but before bay.
Star stones on/carved around northernmost spindle.

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Old Dec 13 2009, 03:48 AM   #3
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

The two Pern books you mention were both published after the Atlas, if memory serves me.
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Old Dec 13 2009, 04:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

Logically the star stones would be on the eastern HALF of the weyr rim but the exact position would be determined by where there was a good vista to the east COMBINED with good landing area. A caldera tilted anything between northeast and southeast could well have the lowest portion of its rim just where, ideally, you want the star stones. You have to adapt to the local geography.
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Old Dec 18 2009, 02:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

Okay, I read through DH, but I didn't find much info about Igen. I'm going to look again later, but what I found was:

*T'mar says that there may have been no place to keep herds at Igen (279), yet we see feeding pens later on at the lake edge (496)
*Traders approach Igen from the west (and according to the Atlas, there is a pass running through the mountains to Igen, while the north and east side have nothing next to them, and the south side has a raised bit of land) (283)
*Igen entrance takes the traders into the bowl, although the others rush to clear the storerooms, so the entrance leads to both. (295) Also, the riders walk through the kitchens to the exit later on. (301) Personally, I find the placement of the entrance tunnel odd. If it is to the west, then all tithe trains have to come from the desert, as opposed to Igen Hold. However, if there is a crossable mountain path surrounding the Weyr, then the entrance could be on the south side, and the kitchens aswell. Again however, unless it was man-made, it could be on any side of the Weyr.
*"...on the heights near the Star Stones to the east." Seen by Fiona either at her weyr, or on way to Kitchen. (301)
*Fiona and traders go from Kitchen cavern through darkened corridors until reaching a "deeper darkness where the heights of the Weyr Bowl shaded them from the moon's light". Since the traders exit from here, this is the entrance. It is early morning, and still dark out, which probably means that they are on the east side. (301) So, that confirms my earlier idea regarding the mountain pass.
*Records room accessed through Weyrwoman's weyr, like at Fort (309). Judging by descriptions, it may also be the council room.
*All walk up the "slope upwards to the queens' weyrs", and Nuella is shown to a queen's weyr once at the top ledge while the others continue to the records room. At least one junior queen weyr is located at the complex, like at Fort, whether or not this is Nuella's is disputable. (385)
*Weyrleader's complex not on west side of Weyr, because Fiona sees the sun set (405) You could assume that since Fiona looked to both the east and the west from her weyr, that the Weyrleader's complex is either on the north or south side of the Weyr.
*Fiona crosses Bowl to get to kitchens from weyr, so they aren't next to eachother. (449)
*Five queen Weyrs (474)
*Shallow lake on east side of Weyr (480)
*Firestone kept in a shed (508)

Wow! I guess I found more info than I thought I had. One could assume that the kitchens are somewhere on the south wall, the hatching grounds and weyrleader's complex to the north, the lake, star stones, and corral to the east, and, presumably, the Weyrling barracks to the west, as it's the last place left. And, as mentioned in an earlier post, the DLG states that the desert wind eroded the west side of the weyr into strange shapes.

I have something else to post regarding Weyr rooms, but I haven't finished writing that yet, so it'll have to wait.

Note: Made an error in one of the earlier posts regarding Fort. When initially noting similarities, I compared each Weyr's location of rooms as if north was the tip of the bowl. So Fort got described in my first post as N-S, instead of NE-SW. The Hatching grounds are really sort of to the east, or NEE. Also, the buildings in High Reaches Weyr, or at least the Kitchen Buildings, were demolished by the 9th Pass.

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Old Dec 19 2009, 01:35 AM   #6
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2cent Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

Only other time we hear about Igen and Telgar is when Moreta is on Search, and the lake can blind folks in the mid-sun, and the Sr. Queen Weyr in which the two Weyrwoman talk about both the vaccination project, and candidates for Moreta's queen.

Also that the watchrider made them land on the rim of Telgar Weyr, also in DE/RSR you can see most of the bowl from above when K'van return from the meeting at Telgar Hold, sorry not to make a good post getting tired.
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Old Dec 23 2009, 01:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

Y'know, it might be a good idea to gather information like this and use it to update the Atlas of Pern. I mean, we could add new sections for the newer books. There's enough information in MHOP and the DLG to draw a map of Benden Hold. Here's a list of the maps I think we could draw, grouped by book:

DRAGONSDAWN (Or possibly merged with LATER NOVELS)
The Dawn Sisters (Mainly details Yokohama)
Colonist Stakeholds (Details each area and the relevant stakes)

RED STAR RISING
Telgar Weyr
Bitra Hold

THIRD PASS NOVELS
Camp Natalon
Crom Hold
Flamestone & Firestone (Not really a map, but could be important)
Old Benden Rooms
Igen Weyr

LATER NOVELS
Southern Continent-Late Ninth Pass (Also mentions history, and new crafthalls)
Landing (Possibly mentioned as a part of previous part)
Paradise River Hold
Monaco Bay Weyr
Honshu Weyrhold
Rubicon River Hold (Maybe just mention in first section)

UNSORTED MAPS
Benden Hold
Western Continent & Ring Islands
Between (Not a map, but a description from what we already know)

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Old Jan 3 2010, 09:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

Just remembered, some time ago I started writing a design document for Weyrs, based on what we know from the books. Basically, it's a list/analysis of what rooms are in each Weyr, and notes regarding which rooms are usually next to each other. So, using this, and the already noted stuff, we could map not only Igen and Telgar, but update High Reaches, Ista, and even Fort to the same level of detail as Benden. There may be a few mistakes in there, so if you find any, please tell me so I can update it.

(LENGTHY DOCUMENT WARNING!)

NOTE: The following information comes from notes taken from each book and theories made from the aforementioned notes. Unless specified, if a Weyr is not listed in the descriptions, it means that there is insufficient information about the Weyr.

In the Atlas entry for Fort, a list is made of rooms necessary to all Weyrs:
*Lower living caverns & kitchens (Usually the same cavern)
*Upper level weyrs for mature dragons
*Ground-level weyrling barracks
*Ground-level weyrs for injured dragons
*Infirmary
*Supply rooms (Stores)
*Fire-stone bunkers
*Storerooms for medical supplies
*Records Room, Council Room, queen riders’ & Weyrleader’s apartments reachable by stairs
*Hatching Grounds
And, though not a room, all Weyrs need Star Stones that face east. It would also seem that each Weyr has some large water source either in the Weyr or nearby that the dragons can use to bathe in, and the livestock in a nearby corral drink from. Since a Bowl exists in every mountain Weyr, it will not be described, except for one thing; Bowls are not necessarily flat, and may in fact slope upwards or downwards towards different regions of the Weyr, something that doesn’t show up on bird’s-eye-view maps.

LOWER LIVING CAVERNS & STORES:
It can be safely assumed that each Weyr has a large collection of rooms in the lower caverns, each serving a separate purpose. The exception is at High Reaches, where the rock is so hard that excavating rooms was too difficult that until a certain point, all their lower caverns were stone buildings built in the Bowl.
The two most important are the kitchen/living caverns, where food is cooked, and riders come to eat, and the inner caverns, which is the cavern where weyrbrats and the lower caverns staff live. At Benden, this cavern is also used for washing and sewing. The living cavern is large enough to hold feasts in, and this is where people go after hatchings to celebrate. At Benden, a bunker containing blackrock is located outside the cavern, presumably to light the hearths in the kitchen. Connected to the kitchen cavern are many stores, containing food, and presumably other supplies tithed to the Weyr. At Fort, an infirmary is located next to the living caverns, so that sick riders can be quickly attended to. Ista also has an infirmary in the lower caverns, but this one is used for housing wounded dragons, presumably until they are well enough to return to a ground weyr.
Medical storerooms contain, as would be expected, medicines for the Weyr. At Fort, this is located in-between the Hatching Grounds and the Weyrleader’s complex, at the foot of the stairs to the complex. The placement of this could be for any of several reasons, including the treatment of hatching injuries, or so that riders need Weyrwomen to approve their use of medicine, or perhaps all the lower cavern stores were full, and there was an empty cavern outside.
Another room that must exist somewhere is a firestone bunker. This could be one of the many stores in the Weyr, or it could even be a cavern that opens on to the Bowl, for ease.
Despite their importance, these rooms are hardly, if ever depicted in the stories, which is why they are not mapped in most cases.
Fort and Benden also have many spare rooms in the deeper parts of the Weyr; Benden’s in the northwestern side, and Fort’s located down various corridors that split off the exit tunnel of the Weyr. These rooms were made using the stonecutters, and were used during the first pass to store various items, such as at Fort, which had a room containing plasfilm records that later caved in, or Benden, which not only had rooms that housed early settlers of Benden Hold, but also a medical room specially constructed as a precaution for a dragon plague.

TUNNELS:
Some Weyrs also have tunnels with gates leading out of the Weyr to a nearby hold, so that tithe trains can be delivered to the stores, and so traders can enter the Weyr and do business. The tunnels at Benden and Igen go to both the kitchens and the Bowl, and Benden even has a large “unloading cavern” that separates the two routes. Fort’s tunnel does not go directly to the bowl or the stores, but instead to an un-named cavern, presumably another “unloading cavern” that lies directly before the kitchens and stores. Ista has a tunnel leading out of another cavern located off the kitchen cavern that appears to be their tunnel. Telgar has an entrance that is located in the thinnest wall of the Weyr, separate from the kitchen caverns. High Reaches Weyr does not appear to have a tunnel, but since it is surrounded on all sides by mountains and hills, it is likely that a tunnel would be with the kitchen caverns, which is located near a mountain pass leading to a minor hold. Unless the tunnels are naturally occuring, it is possible that there are two reasons why they are always near each other. One, it makes for quicker unloading of goods, and two, the excavation of lower caverns, the largest ground complex in the Weyr, would probably include the tunnel in their plan.

UPPER WEYRS:
These are the weyrs used by nearly every dragon and rider in the Weyr. They are located above the ground level of every Weyr, and are peppered all over the extinct volcano that the Weyr inhabits, except in a few places, such as the seven spindles of High Reaches Weyr, which appear to have no weyrs on them in the detailed map, but has some in the miniature version, or the Hatching Grounds, which are large enough that they could take up the entire wall, and leave no space for weyrs to be carved safely.
Over time, riders carved out new weyrs for themselves and their dragons to live in, increasing the capacity of each weyr, and accounting for the difference in Weyr capacity given in different books. The older Weyrs are identifiable through the simple fact that they have plumbing, while the newer weyrs have none.
Presumably, Wingleaders and Wing-seconds occupy the weyrs directly above the kitchen caverns, so that they have food delivered to them via kitchen shaft.

GROUND LEVEL WEYRS:
The location of these weyrs is done for housing dragons either too young or too injured to fly. The injured dragons house themselves in one of the many ground weyrs that are presumably located in any empty area alongside the Bowl.
As for those too young to fly, they inhabit a “barracks” also located in a cavern on the ground floor. This is nothing more than beds alongside dragon wallows that the weyrlings and their dragons use until their dragon reaches maturity and they can fly up to and claim an empty weyr.
Before female green riders became forgotten in the Weyr, it is presumable that two barracks were used, one for men, and another for women, and eventually they just became used only for men, the female riders being moved straight to a queen’s weyr. Fort, High Reaches and (presumably) Telgar each have two caverns for barracks, while Benden and Ista only have one. It is possible that their caverns either once contained removable walls, or they were demolished later on to make more room.
It would seem that the weyrling barracks are always located next to, or near the Weyr lake, and the corral containing the herd beasts that serve as food for the dragons. Presumably, this is due to the fact that the early stages of a dragon’s life consist primarily of eating, washing & sleeping, and all these things were placed near each other so as not to exhaust the young dragons and riders who would walk to each everyday.

HATCHING GROUNDS:
The largest cavern in a Weyr, it is quite safe to assume that this is always located in the largest wall of the Weyr, as otherwise it would not fit. At Fort, Benden & Ista, the Hatching Grounds are located in the highest areas of the Weyr, a feature caused by the sloping of the Bowl. The Hatching Grounds consist mostly of a large hot sandy ground that a queen will lay eggs on, and then position them around the grounds, while dwelling at the far edge of the Grounds. The Hatching Grounds appear to always be several stories high, and contain ledges on the wall that dragons can observe from. At least one side of the Grounds has a set of tiered seating that human observers watch from. At Fort, Benden, High Reaches and Ista, this is on the right-hand wall of the Hatching Grounds. Benden, High Reaches and Ista also have a cavern that connects the Hatching Ground tiers with the senior Weyrwoman’s weyr.

WEYRLEADER’S COMPLEX & JUNIOR QUEEN WEYRS:
Always located near the Hatching Grounds, the Weyrleader’s Complex consists of at least one queen dragon weyr accessible by external stairwell, and a weyr also connected to it via stair that houses the Weyrleader, except at Ista, which doesn’t appear to have such a weyr. Benden, High Reaches and Ista all have tunnels leading from the queen’s weyr to the Hatching Grounds.
Also in this area are the weyrs belonging to the junior queen riders. Benden’s, High Reaches’ and Ista’s are each located up individual flights of stairs. Fort’s and Igen’s are located up at least one continuous flight of stairs; Fort having one junior queen on the same stairs as the senior, and the other two queens on a separate stairwell.
Each Weyr has a Records Room, used for storing of records of all events occurring in a Weyr, and a Council Room, used for meetings between the Weyrleader and the Wingleaders, to discuss Weyr happenings and falls, and, at Fort, meetings between the Weyrleader of each Weyr. Both of these rooms are usually accessed through the head Weyrwoman’s weyr, such as at Fort, Benden, High Reaches and Igen, which appears to have both rooms merged into one, and Ista, where the rooms are present, but not labeled on the map.
Despite the Weyrleader’s complex not being located on the same side as the kitchens, they can still receive food from a shaft, so there is either the appropriate mechanism located below, or an extra cavern below that is monitored. Kitchen shaft delivery to the Weyrleaders is, if I recall correctly, only seen at Benden, an older Weyr, so it could easily have been implemented during construction.

STAIRWELLS:
Something seen in the 3rd Pass novels, but not in the 9th Pass novels are stairwells in the Weyr, that lead up through the rock to long corridors that connect each weyr. One stairwell at Igen goes all the way up to the Star Stones. The problem with stairwells, is that it is mentioned in DF that Lessa is trapped in F’lar’s weyr, as there is no way down, except on dragon back. Plus, (apparently) only Fort and Benden had some stonecutter work done on them, yet Igen has stairs, and a stairwell and corridors would have been difficult and unnecessary. There are several explanations for this, however. As said before, not all of the upper weyrs were made at the same time. In an interval, some riders could have carved out corridors, to make for quick movement between weyrs. As for why the stairs and corridors don‘t appear to still be at Benden, it is shown in the DLG, DB, and M that landslides and earthquakes do occur. It is possible that over time, a cave-in destroyed some of the corridors and stairs, and they were sealed off, as they were unstable. Something else to note is that the Atlas mentions that when Fort’s SW edge collapsed, it destroyed weyrs and caverns. What these caverns were is unknown, and they could have been corridors, but first it needs to be checked whether the fall had occurred by the 3rd Pass or not.

NATURAL FEATURES:
Each Weyr has something that distinguishes it from the other Weyrs. Fort has a large landslide on its south wall, a pointed NE peak known as Tooth Crag, and a large mountain behind it. The rock it is carved from is a stark white, as compared to the orange rock of Igen, or the black stone of Ista. The northern edge of High Reaches Weyr has seven spires of rock, caused by a lava flow, and Ista has a similar arrangement, as well as having the northwestern side of the volcano blown away. The west wall of Igen Weyr has been eroded by desert winds into strange shapes.

CONCLUSIONS
So, using the above information, and what we already know, we can assume that in any Weyr:
*The lower caverns consist of many caverns, the main two being the living/kitchen cavern and the inner cavern. Countless stores are accessible through here, containing food, firestone, medical supplies, and other things. An infirmary may also be located here.
*If the Weyr has a tunnel that allows access to it by land, it emerges either in the kitchen cavern or the stores, or goes directly to the Bowl. In some Weyrs, the tunnel may split and go both ways.
*Individual weyrs are located all over the Weyr, except in areas too unstable to place them, such as in loose or hard rock, or oddly shaped formations, or over a Hatching Ground that extends to the inner wall of the Weyr.
*The weyrling barracks are located near the Weyr lake and corral, so weyrlings don’t exhaust themselves by constantly moving between three separate locations.
*The Weyrleader’s Complex and the junior queen weyrs are located next to, or surrounding the Hatching Grounds. The Records Room and Council Room are usually accessed through the head Weyrwoman’s weyr.
*The Star Stones are always facing east, and are either located on the eastern side of the Weyr, or on the highest part of the Weyr that is both stable and not obstructed by scenery.

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Old Jan 8 2010, 08:33 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

We also see parts of Fort Hold in NS, Ner - Nerilka's Story e.g.
Second level on the south side.
First sub-level Lady's Holder Office
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Old Jan 9 2010, 09:30 AM   #10
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

I would suggest that the firestone bunker would probably not be in the side of the bowl of the volcano, or, if it is, it is on a side where there are no living weyrs.

Now, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of they Weyrs had a side that hardly saw the sun that they decide not to put a lot of weyrs in, so they put the firestone bunker at the bottom of that side. That keeps the firestone out of direct sunlight, and away from living quarters. This would keep accidents that injure people to a minimum.

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Old Jan 9 2010, 04:14 PM   #11
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I would suggest that the firestone bunker would probably not be in the side of the bowl of the volcano, or, if it is, it is on a side where there are no living weyrs.

Now, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of they Weyrs had a side that hardly saw the sun that they decide not to put a lot of weyrs in, so they put the firestone bunker at the bottom of that side. That keeps the firestone out of direct sunlight, and away from living quarters. This would keep accidents that injure people to a minimum.

GH
Good idea, and they could have say a small store area for traning and just keep what was needed for practice or some other rock that could be used, the toss of the bags bags of fire stone.
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Old Jan 13 2010, 07:17 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

Hey Almaron, or anyone-
In all your research, have you ever found the altitude (elevation) of any of the Weyrs? High Reaches is the one I'm specifically interested in, and they're high enough in latitude that they probably have very short winter days and a midnight sun. I haven't found anywhere this is mentioned, either in the books or the companion volumes. Did I just miss it?
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Old Jan 13 2010, 08:45 PM   #13
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

The Atlas of Pern does not mention an altitude for High Reaches Weyr (I didn't check on the rest). It does comment that the marine influence on the mountain range it is in sometimes makes its climate slightly warmer than Fort Weyr's. which is interesting (and there's a footnote reference to a page in Moreta which presumably backs up this claim; I didn't verify but I know Karen Fonstad did pretty meticulous research).

It's unclear from this whether this "sometimes" means that some years HRW is warmer than FW, or if it's a matter of occasional days/weeks within one winter. I would guess that this is a situation not unlike the El Nino/La Nina weather patterns in the southwest US, but there's not a lot to go on.

Hmm, there is a diagram showing relative altitudes on page 4 of the Atlas. No numbers are given, but it gives a general idea of comparative altitudes of some places.

As for its latitude and the possibility of midnight sun in the winter...I don't think so. It's at 52°N latitude. The axial tilt of Pern is said to be just 15° in the DLG (which fits with a diagram in the Atlas, but I don't the Atlas states the info directly) which makes their arctic circle begin at 75°N. So no midnight sun at High Reaches.
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Old Jan 14 2010, 09:08 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

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The Atlas of Pern does not mention an altitude for High Reaches Weyr (I didn't check on the rest). It does comment that the marine influence on the mountain range it is in sometimes makes its climate slightly warmer than Fort Weyr's. which is interesting (and there's a footnote reference to a page in Moreta which presumably backs up this claim; I didn't verify but I know Karen Fonstad did pretty meticulous research).
Or it could be how the UK is normally warmer in the winter than similar latitudes in North America, because of the marine influence (known as the gulfstream).

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Old Jan 14 2010, 09:51 AM   #15
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

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Or it could be how the UK is normally warmer in the winter than similar latitudes in North America, because of the marine influence (known as the gulfstream).
Just not this year... it's currently working its way up the wrong side of Greenland.

*shiver*
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Old Jan 14 2010, 06:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl View Post
The Atlas of Pern does not mention an altitude for High Reaches Weyr (I didn't check on the rest). It does comment that the marine influence on the mountain range it is in sometimes makes its climate slightly warmer than Fort Weyr's. which is interesting (and there's a footnote reference to a page in Moreta which presumably backs up this claim; I didn't verify but I know Karen Fonstad did pretty meticulous research).

It's unclear from this whether this "sometimes" means that some years HRW is warmer than FW, or if it's a matter of occasional days/weeks within one winter. I would guess that this is a situation not unlike the El Nino/La Nina weather patterns in the southwest US, but there's not a lot to go on.

Hmm, there is a diagram showing relative altitudes on page 4 of the Atlas. No numbers are given, but it gives a general idea of comparative altitudes of some places.

As for its latitude and the possibility of midnight sun in the winter...I don't think so. It's at 52°N latitude. The axial tilt of Pern is said to be just 15° in the DLG (which fits with a diagram in the Atlas, but I don't the Atlas states the info directly) which makes their arctic circle begin at 75°N. So no midnight sun at High Reaches.
Wow! Thanks Cheryl et al.! I had noticed thatt the Atlas didn't give an elevation for the High Reaches, but not read about the marine influence and all. Very interesting--thanks so much!

I'm just guessing, but I think the "sometimes the weather is warmer than Fort" would be on certain days or weeks within the same year. Have you ever heard the saying, "Mountains make their own weather."?In my experience, it's right! It seems that the higher in elevation you go, the more the weather varies from night to day, day to day, etc. Here in AZ at 7,000 feet, we have to be ready for anything, anytime (and yes, I've been snowed on in July when camping in the mountains near my home.)

I'm presuming HRW is, well, high, so most activities there would probably be weather-dependent. And tthe fact that they are sometimes warmer than Fort makes a difference--it makes it sound a little more liveable.

Actually, I'm glad to hear they probably don't have a midnight sun at High Reaches, for a midnight sun means the opposite also--24 hours of darkness!
The character I'm thinking of(for a story I'm working on) grew up in Fort Hold Healer Hall and was assigned to High Reaches Weyr as a journeyman, and I'm not sure if I want to make her put up with that much darkness and go stir-crazy. . .
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Old Jan 14 2010, 08:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

It might be worth chasing down the Atlas's reference to Moreta about marine influence; that may make it more clear if it means it's warmer on a daily or annual schedule.
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Old Jan 20 2010, 05:14 PM   #18
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2cent Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

I got another one Fort Runner Station 300 from The Gift of Dragons: Runner of Pern. For its qute descriptive, even if not the best, also how Thread Shelters from a person size wise.

Also SoP has a few more of the Stations too.
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Old Feb 14 2010, 02:35 AM   #19
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I just recall something about rock and how hard it was to cut into, HRW I think. Something about Yosemite and that it had different type of rock layer one harder becuse of larger crystal at it core, on the History Show How the Earth Was Made? Hard to see to read recall the information on that
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Old Mar 5 2010, 03:50 PM   #20
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Red face Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar

I just had a twig of a thought the Igen Caves where the holdless stay RoP, GWHD and got a question for you, don't know if this idea would work or not. In RoP. HC USA Del Ray edtion
Quote:
a tangle of young sky-broom sapling, they partly covered the entry pg. 111
could they be transplanted or not?

And its well talk about in that book along with GWHD too.
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Old Mar 11 2010, 02:03 AM   #21
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Default Re: The Unmapped Weyrs: Igen and Telgar



I know is on Mars but when I saw it, kinda remind me of Igen Weyr from top and before they did any work on it and with no lake.
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