Etymology of the Word 'Weyr' ?

[Daccio]

This is probably the most burning question I have regarding the Dragonrider books. Where did Anne get the word 'Weyr'? I've asked linguists, and posted a question on the discussion page of the wikipedia page for Dragon Riders of Pern. I even tried sending an email to (presumably Anne Mcaffrey) via her website, (no reply.)

As I recall, the word is first used (chronologically in the history of Pern) in the short story The Ford of Red Hanrahan, but is it from some obscure dialect that Anne knows about, or did she just make it up? The closest I've ever come to an answer is that someone told me there is a similar word in German which means 'high fortified place'

I'd love to get a definitive answer to this question.

[jube]

Maybe she changed the spelling of "Weir" (based on a dam built across a river) to "Weyr" and it became a typo that became common to Pern as opposed to here on Earth. If you look at some weirs, they do look like a highly fortified place if you're looking up at them.

[Daccio]

Originally Posted by jube

Maybe she changed the spelling of "Weir" (based on a dam built across a river) to "Weyr" and it became a typo that became common to Pern as opposed to here on Earth. If you look at some weirs, they do look like a highly fortified place if you're looking up at them.

I just don't see how a dam across a stream or river becomes the name for a cave system in a volcano crater for dragons.

[sjslack]

Originally Posted by Daccio

I just don't see how a dam across a stream or river becomes the name for a cave system in a volcano crater for dragons.

The first use of the word 'Weyr' (spelt the same) was in the 13th century, and it was used to mean a piece of timber which was used in part of a vessel's (presumeably a ship) structure.

[tatiana]

I read another online discussion elsewhere about this (from 2007), that postulated "weyr" was derived from the german word "wehr" and that was defined as a military term for a defensible location, often high in the mountains. The pronunciation is the same as weyr ("here"). Considering Ms McCaffrey's studies in Slavonic languages and musical background...if you believe everything posted on wikipedia... , that could certainly be the origin of the word "weyr".

Edit: I checked my mom's ancient German to English dictionary for verification, and it is defined so.

- tanja

[Rianne]

that^ seems more likely than the dam idea.

[Anareth]

Though, to point out, German isn't a Slavonic (or Slavic) language.

[tatiana]

Originally Posted by Anareth

Though, to point out, German isn't a Slavonic (or Slavic) language.

I know, I know... :P

[Daccio]

Originally Posted by Anareth

Though, to point out, German isn't a Slavonic (or Slavic) language.

I guess it would be... germanic ?

[Hans]

Originally Posted by Daccio

I guess it would be... germanic ?

Which in turn is part of the Indo-European language group, yes

[P'ter]

But didn't Anne spent time in Germany with that disaster of a voice coach?

[Golden Talisath]

Originally Posted by Anareth

Though, to point out, German isn't a Slavonic (or Slavic) language.

I wanted to point this out as well. I'm speaking only for the Western types of Slavic languages here and I can be pretty sure in saying that Anne didn't take the word weyr from any of the languages. In the serbian/croatian/bosnian translations of the DRoP trilogy they didn't even translate that word, keeping it as it is and it's read letter by letter, which makes you really break your tongue while pronouncing it.

[Daccio]

Any chance we could ask the source? That being Anne herself?

[Hans]

Originally Posted by P'ter

But didn't Anne spent time in Germany with that disaster of a voice coach?

Yes, but that was after she wrote Weyr Search

I think I heard Anne say once that she thought of the word after seeing the word eyrie (as in bird's nest).

Daccio, we have a thousand little questions like that but thise who have access to Anne usually do not want to bother her with questions like these. Good chance she wouldn't remember, too

I'll see if it was asked in chat once or maybe on her own forum board (1999-2005).

[V'lor Rath Rider]

I like the eyrie to Weyr comparison. But thats just me!

[Hans]

Hah, finally found that thread/topic I remembered in the dusty archives of the Old Old Kitchen Table, and it gives the answer we want but second hand...

discussion started on 17th January 2001 and the last post is from 23rd January 2001

Aenariangirl said

i was kinda sorta interested in the word "weyr." is it a word that anne made up or really an older word for a dragon's hatching ground?

mariah said

My guess is that 'weyr' is a distortion of aerie, a highly placed nest (as of an eagle).

Christiana218 said

I've heard weyr used elsewhere (no pun intended...) so I don't know that it's entirely a new word. But it may also be a takeoff of "lair" which is possible... Honestly, I don't know... one would have to ask the Author to be sure

Renee/Arem said

AMC has stated that...

weir (noun)

[Middle Eng. were, from Old Eng. wer; akin to Old Norse ver fishing place, Old High German werien, werren to defend]

First appeared before 12th Century.

1: a fence or enclosure set in a waterway for taking fish.

2: a dam in a stream or river to raise the water level or divert its flow.

...is where she got the name 'weyr.'

Websters say's it's pronounced 'wir.'

Catalina said

I've always wondered about the Weyr thing myself. I know that there's a town near where Anne used to go to school in Staunton, VA called Weyer's Cave (how strange is that?), but I doubt that has anything to do with it. It's an interesting coincidence, though. :>

and

One thing else... the word is pronounced "we're", not "where", so it wouldn't be anything like lair. Wher is pronounced as such, but weyr is completely different. Hence the rhyming of:

Have they flown to some new Weyr
Where cruel Thread some others fear?
Are they worlds away from here?
Why, oh why, the empty weyr?

Fear and here don't exactly rhyme with where. ;>

Talitha Oy said

Is it safe to assume that Anne added the "y" to weir, to get a nice sounding "why-er", instead of a nasty "wir"?

Lady Domini said

I don't pronounce it "why-er". I pronounce it the "we're" kind of way. And we have the traditional kind of "weir" at our park's pond.

Sasha said

While living in Downeast Maine there was a fishing weyr-I never saw another spelling-in the cove across the street. The Native Americans used it to collect the fish as they came in with the tide. The design prevents them from going back out with the tide. I was already reading AMC and couldn't imagine the connection between this clever set of nets and poles and caves in a mountainside-but who am I to question.

Talitha Oy said

You know, I never gave rhyming a single thought. I just, the first time I read the word, tried several possible pronounciations, asked a few people, who were zero help, and then just went with what worked and sounded right phonetically. I still think "we're" sounds weird. I realize "why-er" doesn't rhyme with "fear", but, I guess I'm probably going to continue to mispronounce it. Sorry Anne.

[Samsara]

Originally Posted by V'lor Rath Rider

I like the eyrie to Weyr comparison. But thats just me!

I agree. Sounds right to me too.

[Dragon Fan]

Didn't it All come From Anne's Mind. That works for me.

[Daccio]

Originally Posted by Hans

Daccio, we have a thousand little questions like that but thise who have access to Anne usually do not want to bother her with questions like these. Good chance she wouldn't remember, too

I'll see if it was asked in chat once or maybe on her own forum board (1999-2005).

Hans, Thanks for looking up the thread. And I'd lean more towards the 'corruption' of Aerie, than anything along the lines of 'weir'. Just something feels incomplete that we didn't have some sort of slurring in one of the early (in chronological history) stories of Aerie becoming weyr.

I suppose the thing we have to remember is that the Pern 'universe' was conceived as different than ours, complete with 'weyr' and 'kla' without explanation. It's only when Dragonsdawn was written that we wondered why the colonists would come up with a name like that.

[GinnyStar]

My two bits, I know some who last name is spell Weyr, how its say is beyond me. and thank Hans for digging it out.

[ghost8772]

and here I thought it either had an official definition before Weyr Search, or there was a discussion about Pern before anything was written...
"Here there be dragons."
"Where?"
"Ooh, that gives me an idea..."

[Rianne]

thats funny.

[D. M. Domini]

Holy blast from the past. That "Lady Domini" Hans quoted is me. God, I must have been...what, 18? 17? Had to be, I was referring to a pond in my hometown, and I moved from there when I was 20, 8 years ago ^_^ And the Old Kitchen Table shut down in the early 2000s.

Sorry, didn't mean to derail. It's scary seeing my "younger self" even in a quote.

[Hans]

LOL

And I have all the archives, Lady DM So I could potentially embarras you in many ways eh?

I actually didn't even realise that that discussion is over TEN years old...
And I understand your surprise and the scare. For me it is not that importnt, the difference between 53 and 43 is much less than that between 28 and 18... despite it being 10 years for both of us!

[Sandi]

Hans, if you start pulling old threads out of those archives you could embarrass a lot of us. A lot.

[Altair]

It's neat how people pronounce the same written word differently in their head. I say the name Weyr in my head as weer, as in weird.

I also had F'lar's name as "flair" when I read my first book and still say it that way. :P

[P'ter]

I "hear" Weyr as Way-er.