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Old Dec 27 2008, 09:44 PM   #1
Brenda
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Wax on Pern

We don't see anything about wax on sandtables, but we do see sheets of glass used to preserve writings, and in DQ Master Robinton fills in his new score with clay.
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Old Dec 27 2008, 10:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Quote:
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We don't see anything about wax on sandtables, but we do see sheets of glass used to preserve writings, and in DQ Master Robinton fills in his new score with clay.
Ture. There are inferences to it though.

Many refereces to wax slates,
Quote:
Exerpt from Dragonsinger
He got up, rummaged among the piles of waxed slates under the window, extracted one and handed it to her. She looked at the notations obediently but, although they were familiar, she couldn't make her mind read the melody.
I also recall a line "I'll set it in wax later" in another book but not sure which one, where it also mentioning covering it with glass to protect it.

As to the DQ one, I remember that as well.

Have you ever tried to fill in a sand based impression with not so malable clay? You need something more the consitance of melted wax, or almost liquid plaster for it. Even then the sand has to be damp with water or some oil to hold it's shapes.

Anyway all i'm trying to point out that the peices were there for a primative form of reproducable printing. No Avias required
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Old Dec 28 2008, 07:35 AM   #3
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Wax, wouldn't that need bees?
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Old Dec 28 2008, 05:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

There are actually a wide varity of sources for wax. Pern would probably have it's own sources as well.

Animal waxes
Beeswax - produced by honey bees
Chinese wax - produced by the scale insect Ceroplastes ceriferus
Shellac wax - from the lac insect Kerria lacca
Spermaceti - from the head cavities and blubber of the sperm whale
Lanolin (wool wax) - from the sebaceous glands of sheep
Ear wax - found in the human ear.

Vegetable waxes
Bayberry wax - from the surface of the berries of the bayberry shrub, Myrica faya
Candelilla wax - from the Mexican shrubs Euphorbia cerifera and E. antisyphilitica
Carnauba wax - from the leaves of the Carnauba palm, Copernica cerifera
Castor wax - catalytically hydrogenated castor oil
Esparto wax - a byproduct of making paper from esparto grass, (Macrochloa tenacissima)
Japan wax - a vegetable triglyceride (not a true wax), from the berries of Rhus and Toxicodendron species
Jojoba oil - a replacement for spermaceti, jojoba is pressed from the seeds of the jojoba bush, Simmondsia chinensis
Ouricury wax - from the Brazilian Feather palm, Syagrus coronata.
Rice bran wax - obtained from rice bran (Oryza sativa)
Soy wax - from soybean oil.

Mineral waxes
Ceresin waxes
Montan wax - extracted from lignite and brown coal
Ozocerite - found in lignite beds
Peat waxes

Petroleum waxes
Paraffin wax - made of long-chain alkane hydrocarbons
Microcrystalline wax - with very fine crystalline structure

Tallow Wax can be renderered from almsot any animal Fat.
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Old Dec 29 2008, 01:00 AM   #5
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Quote:
I also recall a line "I'll set it in wax later" in another book but not sure which one, where it also mentioning covering it with glass to protect it.
Assumed that was referring to the aforementioned wax slates.
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Old Dec 29 2008, 04:51 AM   #6
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

I asked because (Dragonsdawn says) bees didn't adapt to Pern and are non existent there.

So the next question is: which waxes on your list could be expected to exist on Pern...

And don't you have liquid clay, too?



BTW I am gonna split this into a new Thread.
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Old Dec 29 2008, 08:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

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I asked because (Dragonsdawn says) bees didn't adapt to Pern and are non existent there.

So the next question is: which waxes on your list could be expected to exist on Pern...

And don't you have liquid clay, too?


Lanolin wax, for certain. They have ovines there.

Probably several of the hardier vegetable waxes - bayberry, candelilla, carnauba. Rice and soy, since I'm sure rice and soy made it over.

They probably have indigenous plants and possibly insects that make wax.

As for liquid clay - don't see why not. And if we go that route - how about some type of cement? That should be easy to make, if they have the right type of rock.
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Old Dec 29 2008, 10:57 AM   #8
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

Rice certainly made it over. Todd still cals it rice (3rd Pass or bad research) because by the Ninth Pass it is called river grain.
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Old Dec 29 2008, 04:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

Hehe, I wondered how much longer this was going to last in the other thread... How many have you split off from that one now, Hans?
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Old Dec 29 2008, 05:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

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Originally Posted by Shalyn View Post
Lanolin wax, for certain. They have ovines there.

Probably several of the hardier vegetable waxes - bayberry, candelilla, carnauba. Rice and soy, since I'm sure rice and soy made it over.

They probably have indigenous plants and possibly insects that make wax.

As for liquid clay - don't see why not. And if we go that route - how about some type of cement? That should be easy to make, if they have the right type of rock.
----------------------
A thick liquid clay called slip has been used in the past to decorate pottery. I don't know if it can be made runny enough to pour over damp sand and still solidify.

Eriflor.
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Old Dec 29 2008, 06:13 PM   #11
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2cent Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

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Originally Posted by Eriflor View Post
----------------------
A thick liquid clay called slip has been used in the past to decorate pottery. I don't know if it can be made runny enough to pour over damp sand and still solidify.

Eriflor.
There may also be a Pern wax substance as well
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Old Dec 29 2008, 06:50 PM   #12
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

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Hehe, I wondered how much longer this was going to last in the other thread... How many have you split off from that one now, Hans?
I really don't know Brenda, more than a handful though
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Old Dec 29 2008, 09:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

Great, I delurk and already causeing split threads

Pern plants having wax was soemthing I also thought about too.

Considering that Skybrooms are imperious to thread without needing grubs, a tough bark could explain the trunks, but not the leaves (or needles). However as Thread is always hot when it impacts, a waxy substance on leaves could act like a lubricant, causing the thread to slide off toward the better protected branches and trunks, before it does much damage.

Skybroom wax anyone?
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Old Dec 29 2008, 09:42 PM   #14
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
I asked because (Dragonsdawn says) bees didn't adapt to Pern and are non existent there.

So the next question is: which waxes on your list could be expected to exist on Pern...

And don't you have liquid clay, too?



BTW I am gonna split this into a new Thread.
I think others have pointed out enouhg waxy sources from my list so don't think more is need there?

As to the liquid clay. I've seen Liquid clay used, but unually only in molds (Such as the clay used to from 2 peice or one peice toliets) This clay usualy needs to be fired for it to set, due to it's high water content.

However there is nothing to say that they didn't have clay like the romans used, Volcanic clay that dried just as hard as concrete. Anne never said as much, but as Pern is Volcanic... it's a posibility.

Technically Pern would probably have ways to make plaster like substances too.
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Old Dec 29 2008, 09:42 PM   #15
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

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Great, I delurk and already causeing split threads

Pern plants having wax was soemthing I also thought about too.

Considering that Skybrooms are imperious to thread without needing grubs, a tough bark could explain the trunks, but not the leaves (or needles). However as Thread is always hot when it impacts, a waxy substance on leaves could act like a lubricant, causing the thread to slide off toward the better protected branches and trunks, before it does much damage.

Skybroom wax anyone?

Love that idea
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Old Dec 29 2008, 09:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danel View Post
Great, I delurk and already causeing split threads

Pern plants having wax was soemthing I also thought about too.

Considering that Skybrooms are imperious to thread without needing grubs, a tough bark could explain the trunks, but not the leaves (or needles). However as Thread is always hot when it impacts, a waxy substance on leaves could act like a lubricant, causing the thread to slide off toward the better protected branches and trunks, before it does much damage.

Skybroom wax anyone?
That's a pretty good theory, I like it!

And don't worry about split threads, they're a good thing. It means discussion of a side topic grew robust enough that it warranted it's own properly titled thread for further discussion.
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Old Dec 29 2008, 11:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

Huh, count me on the boat with the "Skybroom wax" idea too...that's a pretty spiffy idea you have there, sir! May I steal it? (says the fic-writer...)
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Last edited by D. M. Domini; Dec 30 2008 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Darnit, now I'm writing "skybroom" as "skyboom". This is what I get for intentionally mispelling it in a fic.
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Old Dec 30 2008, 12:02 AM   #18
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

By all means. I actualy have a woking idea of Skybroom genisis/biology bouncing around in my head for a while now.

The problem I have is getting them out of my head. I get so many things bouncing around inside my head that one of these days it may reach a point of critical mass and collapse into a black hole.
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Old Dec 30 2008, 12:09 AM   #19
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

Haha, thank you. ::steals!::

I think we'd all be overjoyed to see your skybroom genesis/biology theories; I know I would (I'm a semi biology-geek). What do you have so far?
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Old Dec 30 2008, 03:23 AM   #20
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

well, whatever method pernese had to make wax, they've had it (storywise) since dragonflight. Thought I remembered it in Lessa'a lessons with R'gul and S'lel. at the end of her writing the ballad letter perfect for the tenth time, she "jammed the stylus in the soft wax to indicate a completed score"
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Old Dec 30 2008, 03:57 AM   #21
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

I'm sure they have mortar for building walls. When they are building Robinton's 'cot' they set the pieces of black coloured rock for the piers in a white mortar; I think Anne calls it 'hard set' (which gives us another term to go back into the original thread?)
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Old Dec 30 2008, 04:02 AM   #22
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

Hard set is a regular Terran builders term used in relation to concrete.

(see, I knew watching Discovery channel was good for something )
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Old Dec 30 2008, 01:50 PM   #23
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

Not in UK Hans
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Old Dec 30 2008, 03:49 PM   #24
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

I don't think Discovery is a British Channel, P'ter
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Old Dec 30 2008, 04:51 PM   #25
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

As far as plant waxes - in DSo, Menolly considers using marsh or beach berries to produce oil for the fire lizards, "only that would take immense quantities, which she'd prefer to eat." So that oil might render into a type of wax, also.
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Old Dec 30 2008, 05:35 PM   #26
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

In the Dragonlover's Guide, Jody and Anne mention slates coated with vegitable lipids similar to wax, if that's any help.
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Old Dec 31 2008, 12:37 AM   #27
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

Quote:
Originally Posted by D. M. Domini View Post
Haha, thank you. ::steals!::

I think we'd all be overjoyed to see your skybroom genesis/biology theories; I know I would (I'm a semi biology-geek). What do you have so far?
Done! I posted it in the Science of Pern Sub-Forum.
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Old Jan 3 2009, 09:53 PM   #28
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

Aramina made candles from berry waxes, didn't she?
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Old Jan 4 2009, 06:20 AM   #29
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She did? She did!

From The Renegades of Pern:
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The inside walls were not of the same stone as the outside and were colored very cool green blue. Jayge had fashioned sconces for candles Ara had made from berry wax, so the room was pleasantly lit. "How big is this house you found?"
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Old Jan 4 2009, 01:06 PM   #30
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

Tallow wax would be the easyest to make and you could always use herbs to make it smell good. I think that is what the poorer holds would use.
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Old Jan 7 2009, 03:28 AM   #31
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

OT: A answer if not all ready answer lol here
Quote:
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I don't think Discovery is a British Channel, P'ter
Its a USA they have done some work with the BBC also. Also they team up with other place around the world too.
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Old Jan 7 2009, 03:35 AM   #32
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

Also RoP-Renegades of Pern, when exploring the "Landing Tower" they are using candles to explored it. For its was easier for Piemur's queen to carry in her claws for a glowbasket would be too big.

That book is gone from too much reading of it. "Cheap mass product paperback" IMHO (I hope I got that right

DLG they tell if you make the impression deep cover it with clay you can "print it to something" I may be repeat another post sorry about that
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Old Nov 29 2010, 05:38 PM   #33
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Red face Re: Wax on Pern

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnMarie View Post
In the Dragonlover's Guide, Jody and Anne mention slates coated with vegitable lipids similar to wax, if that's any help.
Wax Tablets|Slates, are found in Dragonflight, Lessa learning her lessons. Dragonsong, messsage slate|Music send on to the Hall Dragonsong
Which reminds me, I know Anne start out with a short story->novella->novel

And I've got a question. What is end of 'what ever you are writing* looking like only thing I can come up with is this *
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Old Nov 29 2010, 05:46 PM   #34
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

An asterisk?
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Old Nov 29 2010, 05:57 PM   #35
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An asterisk?
Its just say she marks it as a finish work, not what it is. I use * as an example.
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Old Dec 1 2010, 05:02 AM   #36
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Default Re: Wax on Pern

If the clay slip actually set; they could lift it off the sand, ink it and use it as a crude printer.
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