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Old Oct 9 2007, 05:19 PM   #41
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Ok, I've been going nuts trying to figure out how you managed to go from a flat map to a globe. It seemed pretty straightforward from your initial description, but when I tried it myself I got lost

Did you mark the latitude/longitude lines on the globe as they are on regular globes - with the ones around the equator bulging, and tapering to the top and bottom to a point? How did you match that up with those on a flat map, where the lines would be more regular? I know I must be missing something obvious here

How is the Skies of Pern map for accuracy in fitting around a globe? Do both ends meet perfectly around it, or did some altering have to be done so that it fit around a sphere?

Ok, my interrogation is over You have me beat as to how you managed it so well!
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Old Oct 9 2007, 05:58 PM   #42
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You're almost there. Yes, I marked the latitude/longitude lines on the globe. The latitude lines are all horizontal circles, starting with the equator and getting smaller up to the poles. The longitude lines are vertical at the equator, go from pole to pole and taper to a point at each pole.

The flat map shows the latitude and longitude lines as horizontal and vertical lines. The map in Skies of Pern complicates matters by labelling longitude in terms of hours (time zones) instead of degrees. There should be 24 of these units around the equator. The latitude is labelled as normal in degrees, and should go from -90 at the south pole to +90 at the north pole. If you were to copy the flat map from the book and roll it into a cylinder the parts at each end should match up. However (and now I've noticed the snag), the publishers seem to have chopped off part of the map. It starts on the left hand side at 18 hours and ends on the right hand side at 16 hours. You'll need to interpolate the bits between 16 and 18 hours - lucky there's not much of interest in that zone. You'll also notice the latitude goes from -82 to +82, so you'll need to interpolate what happens at the poles - its all land at both poles.

I was lucky in that my globe started out in two halves (and I sanded down the boundary), so I defined that boundary as the equator. I marked along the equator into 24 equal spaces, then I drew four of the longitude lines (for 0, 6, 12, and 18 hours). I divided each longitude line into 9 equal parts above and below the equator to make the 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90 degrees. After that I could gradually build up the rest of the grid. If you happen to be starting with a globe that isn't made in two halves and doesn't have a well-defined equator (e.g. a wooden one [winks at Sara]) you could define the equator by dunking the sphere into a tank of water whose depth is exactly half its diameter. The water mark becomes the equator. Phew!

The next step is to take each of the rectangle on the flat map and transfer whatever is in it onto the corresponding shape on the globe, starting with the coast line. Since the shapes on the globe will be more pointy at the top, you'll need to squash whatever you a drawing at the top of each rectangle. Imagine the rectangle is made of elastic and you need to stretch and squash it to fit the pointy shape.

I hope that helps. Phew. I typed that all in using "Quick Reply".

(Carefully checks for any more smelling pistakes. Sorry Maximillian)
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Old Oct 9 2007, 06:21 PM   #43
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I am going to save this discription of how to do it, until I have mine ready to go. I have a feeling that I'm really going to need it. Soon we will have these lovely globe worlds of Pern much like Anne has in her collection, only these will be in our own collections, thanks to you. Steven
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Old Oct 9 2007, 06:35 PM   #44
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If you're going to mark the equator on your globe(s) using Archimedes principle, then your initial volume of water has got to be a bit shallower, than the radius of your globe, for the volume of a half globe to be inserted in order to get the depth right.
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Old Oct 10 2007, 06:00 AM   #45
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If you're going to mark the equator on your globe(s) using Archimedes principle, then your initial volume of water has got to be a bit shallower, than the radius of your globe, for the volume of a half globe to be inserted in order to get the depth right.
Ah. I see your point. You need to shuffle my words: The water needs to be poured in to the right depth after the globe has been put into the container otherwise, as you say, the globe will displace some water and make it deeper. But I'm not using Archimedes' principle. You measure the depth of the water, not the volume.

I have realised there is an easier way of doing it - especially for Sara if she's making the globe on a lathe: Attach the globe to something that spins (e.g. lathe or potter's wheel) and just mark the equator and lines of latitude with a pencil while the globe is spinning.
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Old Oct 10 2007, 10:37 AM   #46
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I have realised there is an easier way of doing it - especially for Sara if she's making the globe on a lathe: Attach the globe to something that spins (e.g. lathe or potter's wheel) and just mark the equator and lines of latitude with a pencil while the globe is spinning.
That was the plan. I'm half tempted to make the globe then use the bansaw to saw it directly in half, then attach it again and hollow it out (making a sort of bowl shape). My grandfather knows how to add 'screws' to it (so the two piece come together) so I may ask him if it'd be possible to do that as well.

Ideas ideas ideas...xD
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Old Oct 10 2007, 11:12 AM   #47
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Since the shapes on the globe will be more pointy at the top, you'll need to squash whatever you a drawing at the top of each rectangle. Imagine the rectangle is made of elastic and you need to stretch and squash it to fit the pointy shape.
Aaaah! That's the part that was getting me. I thought that something like this would distort it too much, but apparently it doesn't Thank you VERY much for your in-depth explanation!
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Old Oct 10 2007, 03:26 PM   #48
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Sara, why do you want to saw the globe in half if you're going to join it back together again? I think a solid wooden sphere would be beautiful. Then again, if you make a large hollow globe and carve out the shape of the coast line you could use it as a template. Then you could make smaller globes that just fit inside the hollow one and use the template to draw the coast lines. Mass production of Pern Globes...

Spaceman Spiff, you're welcome. Glad I could be of some help. Best of luck with the project.

Right, who's going to be the first to carve a Pern pumpkin?
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Old Oct 10 2007, 03:34 PM   #49
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Sara, why do you want to saw the globe in half if you're going to join it back together again? I think a solid wooden sphere would be beautiful. Then again, if you make a large hollow globe and carve out the shape of the coast line you could use it as a template. Then you could make smaller globes that just fit inside the hollow one and use the template to draw the coast lines. Mass production of Pern Globes...

Spaceman Spiff, you're welcome. Glad I could be of some help. Best of luck with the project.

Right, who's going to be the first to carve a Pern pumpkin?
Money bank.
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Old Oct 10 2007, 04:53 PM   #50
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Steven, If anyone can do it Sara, sure can...!!!

Sara, but don't you have quite a bit of studies to do...before you can get back to your.. ..money making projects/ARTWORK...

P.S. Please don't forget your poems and writings too...
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Old Oct 10 2007, 06:26 PM   #51
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Right, who's going to be the first to carve a Pern pumpkin?
Now there's an idea! I've been trying to decide what to carve on my pumpkin this year. Two years ago it was a dragon, last year it was an owl and a cat face (on opposite sides). If I do Pern, my neighbors will think I've truly lost it.
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Old Oct 11 2007, 03:51 AM   #52
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Your neighbours maybe would, but we wouldn't and it might make for wonderful pictures!
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Old Oct 11 2007, 04:33 AM   #53
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What's wrong with having a (secret) pumpkin: just for us to see?
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Old Oct 14 2007, 05:36 PM   #54
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We currently have a dragon pumpkin and a pumpkin with Jack and Sally from Nightmare Before Christmas. I wouldn't even attempt to do a Pern pumpkin. I didn't do the pumpkins we have. It's nice to have talented kids!
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Old Oct 14 2007, 06:01 PM   #55
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Cheryl, Go for it girl...who cares what the neighbors think...they might just think you are tyring to carve the earth and aren't very good at it.............

P.S. It would be a lovely thing to see photo of though
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Old Oct 21 2007, 09:54 AM   #56
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Please do make your halloween pumpkin like Pern! Who cares what the neighbors think?
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Old Oct 29 2007, 11:28 PM   #57
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FANTASTIC Steven... I want one!!!


My map isn't 3-d as in round..but it is erm topographical? My mountains are raised and the snowy wastes are craft snow.

All the various places are marked with different coloured sequins Cilla dear


http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a77...t=Katsmap3.jpg

And getting Anne,Marilyn and Harry Alm's seal of approval was a highlight of my life.And Todd's well done didn't hurt either
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Old Oct 30 2007, 05:40 AM   #58
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Kat, I 've said it before and will say it again, it is absolutely beautiful. When was it going in mass production, did you say?

Seriously: I am still waiting (a long time now) for you to publish your list, i.e. the result of your research for Hold names...

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Old Oct 30 2007, 07:42 AM   #59
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Kat, Your map of Pern is so incredibly well done...I wish that I could have been there to see it.
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Old Oct 30 2007, 07:52 PM   #60
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Kat, I 've said it before and will say it again, it is absolutely beautiful. When was it going in mass production, did you say?



Seriously: I am still waiting (a long time now) for you to publish your list, i.e. the result of your research for Hold names...

I wish wanting the ability to mass produce and reality were that simple

I thought you and I had (a long time ago) got together and compared etc. It was the time you sent me a map of Pern from a Russian site as well.I shall be adventurous and go hunting in my closet and find the relevant info.I really need to get in there (the joys of shifting a four bedroom house to a trailer things that were handy have to be stored)
and drag out my art suppiles and start working on the several projects I have in various stages.
Back many years ago when I did that map my original concept was to have the main map and then each individual Hold's territory on a seprate piece just as detailed but smaller surrounding it.

I have several drawn,Nerat,Benden and Bitra if I recall off the top of my head. On 11x14 canvas board. But not painted etc. But I always thought THEY would be much more manageable to capture the image and reproduce even if it was only for online viewing somewhere. (I don't think I'm computer savvy enough to make a website myself. Though I've always wanted to.

I have several other ideas /projects that need tending as well. I shall pull the stuff out after I log off..if it's in sight there's a better chance of inspiration,

.
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Old Oct 31 2007, 08:02 AM   #61
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Kat, your map looks amazing. I'm sure photobucket isn't doing justice to it. We need a tactile display medium, or perhaps a fly-through video around your mountains?
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Old Nov 1 2007, 01:12 AM   #62
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Steven, I finally got to do a very, very, very small Pern globe like yours...as a matter of fact I used your avatar for the model.


P.S. You can look for it in the next Character Portrait on *The Pern Museum and Archives* site. it's there in honor of your wonderful *Pern Globe*

P.P.S. This one will have to do for the time being...as I am not to sure when I'm going to be able to get to the bigger one...
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Old Jan 16 2008, 01:36 PM   #63
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What a beautiful globe - and beautiful peice of work. I read about it in 40 Years of Pern - but it's nice to see more, and read more about it.

Yep, I do indeed have a full 3d model of Pern, and I am still working on an updated photo-realistic version of it. Um, I kind of have a new faster machine (it's a long story, again Lady M knows all - I really must post something about where I've been and what I've been up to...), so I should be able to get some more work done on it. Would have been nice to have it ready for last year, but maybe this year I will get it done Certainly the new "map" I am creating for it is coming along. Who knew photo realistic mountains were so much fun to draw?
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Old Jan 18 2008, 09:07 AM   #64
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Thanks Jayru. Are you going to post a picture of your 3D model of Pern?
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Old Jan 18 2008, 11:24 PM   #65
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OH WOW J...a map too ...I am really looking forward to seeing both of these new projects when you finally get them finished. I know they will be spectacular
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Old Jan 19 2008, 07:21 AM   #66
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Thanks Jayru. Are you going to post a picture of your 3D model of Pern?
I did have a thread on here about it, and some pics showing the progress - but some other real life things got in the way, so it hasn't been updated in a while - that and I think the pic links are dead as well.

When time permits I'll either revive the old thread, or start a new one showing my progress on it.

As for the current 3D globe I have - I think there a few pics lurking around... wouldn't hurt to generate some new ones I suppose, and put them up. Personally though, I was never satisifed with the texture map I made for the 3D model/globe/sphere (which is a full map of Pern) I made, hence my "need" to make something better. That, and it has been a very long time since the graphics on Rukbat3 were updated, and I don't like my sites to stay static
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Old Jan 19 2008, 12:26 PM   #67
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Well, Jay, I've never seen your 3D globe...

And if the picture links are broken due to your erstwhile provider troubles I'd say: we start a new thread!
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Old Jan 19 2008, 01:14 PM   #68
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Well, Jay, I've never seen your 3D globe...

And if the picture links are broken due to your erstwhile provider troubles I'd say: we start a new thread!

Umm, the image on Rukbat3? The cover of 40 Years of Pern? that's my 3D globe - well one side of it...


Ok, new thread - as and when
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Old Jan 20 2008, 05:30 AM   #69
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Ahhhhh...I think you got us, well me , that you also did a real (3D) globe like Steven did
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Old Jan 20 2008, 06:16 AM   #70
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Ahhhhh...I think you got us, well me , that you also did a real (3D) globe like Steven did
Soz.

No, I don't have Steven's skill, or ability in that regards. My work is strictly in the realms of 3D cyber art

LOL, as I was telling someone recently, my learning proccess in that is still ongoing as well. What I can do now, in terms of 3D stuff is a long way from the basic stuff I started out with, of which my Pern mesh was one of the first things I did. But like any 3D model, it is only as good as it's detail. And unlike any of the other 3D work I do, the Pern mesh is very reliant on decent texture maps - which in this case means I need to generate a decent map of Pern, and that's what takes the time

Things like the coloney ships, are a doddle by comparison, as I can just get on with them, and create the shapes.

Oh yes, I plan to includ a pic of the three ships in orbit... I really need to get started on all that at some point... need to check my calander and see when's good...
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Old Jan 20 2008, 08:50 PM   #71
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That is going to be such a sight to see when you get it all finished and put up...like seeing part of the book come to life...OOOooooOOOO!!!
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Old Jan 21 2008, 04:36 AM   #72
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Well *someone* put an idea into my head of doing a shot of Pern, from the POV of the colony ships... and I haven't been able to get that oput of my head - so I guess I will have to work on it, LOL

'twill be fun...
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Old Jan 21 2008, 04:43 AM   #73
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Well *someone* put an idea into my head of doing a shot of Pern, from the POV of the colony ships... and I haven't been able to get that oput of my head - so I guess I will have to work on it, LOL

'twill be fun...
Oh... YES!

That would not only be the view Sallah Telgar and her co-colonists had, but it also reminds me of an emotional Jaxom, looking down on his beloved Pern... and of a certain Master Archivist...
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Old Jan 21 2008, 05:01 AM   #74
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Oh... YES!

That would not only be the view Sallah Telgar and her co-colonists had, but it also reminds me of an emotional Jaxom, looking down on his beloved Pern... and of a certain Master Archivist...

Of course, that means making a 3d model of the Yoko's bridge

Mind you, I'd had some thoughts on that idea already...
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Old Jan 21 2008, 04:31 PM   #75
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Concentrate on the view of the planet and the outside of the ships first my friend
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Old Jan 21 2008, 07:14 PM   #76
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Oh my lord *J*...a model of the bridge....any more of your
genius ideas and my head might explode.
I can hardly wait for the Globe, and then the colony ships...
and now you are talking about doing a 3D model of the bridge...
.....
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Old Jan 22 2008, 03:58 AM   #77
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Well, for the bridge we have a wonderful painting/cover art by Steve Weston, which I do like (AtWoP, UK edition). So maybe that can be a reference for Jay?
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Old Jan 22 2008, 04:33 AM   #78
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Well, for the bridge we have a wonderful painting/cover art by Steve Weston, which I do like (AtWoP, UK edition). So maybe that can be a reference for Jay?


Funny, but I was kind of thinking along those lines myself... BUT, the 3D stuff is a sideline, a hobbie, and whilst I can work on several models at once (and do), I kind of have a list - and that will have to wait for a time. After all - I need to get the new globe done first.
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Old Feb 4 2008, 02:09 PM   #79
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No, I don't have Steven's skill, or ability in that regards. My work is strictly in the realms of 3D cyber art
Nonsense! The new 3-D map of the Western Continent you posted on the other thread looks terrific.
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Old Feb 4 2008, 04:38 PM   #80
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Well, for the bridge we have a wonderful painting/cover art by Steve Weston, which I do like (AtWoP, UK edition). So maybe that can be a reference for Jay?
Hans where could I see the uk edition please
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