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Old Mar 12 2009, 09:12 PM   #1
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Default A Clutching Queen

Beware, spoilers for 'Moreta: Dragon Lady of Pern' are here!

As shown in Moreta and mentioned a few other places in other Pern books, a Queen with eggs hardening on the Hatching Sands is tied to them and must remain, even if her rider dies. So is what happened to Orlith and Moreta, and so is what also happened to Jora and her dragon (whose name has slipped my mind) at the beginning of Dragonflight.

This makes perfect sense to me. Even with the bond a dragon shares with her rider, it is pure instinct to protect your young/eggs at any cost. My question is, would a Queen that is still carrying her eggs do the same? Say that, Moreta had died before Orlith laid her eggs. Would Orlith still feel the same instinct to stay for her unlaid eggs? I feel that the answer to this would be yes but, as it has yet to be stated in the books, I wasnt sure.

And as a brief aside, did Jora's Queen go between eventually? Orlith left the morning of her eggs hatching but Jora's dragon was still there when the eggs hatched and Impressed. Was she too wasted away to make the actual trip? I wonder what they would have done with her if that was the case...
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Old Mar 12 2009, 11:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

I would think that the bronze dragons would take a gold between if she died before goind between.

I am not sure if a gold would go between if she had not yet laid her eggs. That is very hard to say. It may depend on how close she was to laying the eggs. If it was right after mating than she may not have a close bond to the eggs. If she was with in a day or two of laying then she would probably have a much closer bond.
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Old Mar 13 2009, 12:08 AM   #3
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

It is so often mentioned that dragons only think about "here and now" that I doubt many gold dragons would have much thought for eggs that have not been laid. I'm not saying there couldn't be exceptions, but I think that in general a queen would not be thinking of eggs she couldn't see at the moment of losing her rider.
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Old Mar 13 2009, 05:01 AM   #4
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I'm with Sandi.
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Old Mar 13 2009, 05:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

Well she wait and took Holth's rider Leri (sp) with her between. Also the other Wyerleaders were worry about Orlth going between before she clutched. "For the lost of a egg-heave queen) for she was the only one that had eggs at that time.

Also Ramoth going between with Lessa (sp) before they lost their only gold queen (Also to lose a egg heavy queen. Also they did their training for between before Ramoth got too egg hevy to do it.
I think Nermorth, may had lived till hatching and didn't have the power to go between
Quote:
for rider like dragon
for Jora never rode her queen something about hights, and not being a strong person, person from what I recall.

Also the fire lizard queen could not take her eggs between for they were close to hatching
to save them from the sea, in Dsong.
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Old Mar 13 2009, 07:40 AM   #6
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by mawra View Post
I would think that the bronze dragons would take a gold between if she died before goind between.
Yes, this was the case for Nemorth - Anne confirmed on the old KT in the early days. It was an oversight from the original story, and she said the bronzes would have lifted her between after the hatching. When you think about it, it is the only practical thing to do!
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Old Mar 13 2009, 02:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

Orlith had already laid her eggs when her rider went between.
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Old Mar 14 2009, 12:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

Jora's queen (Nemorth?) was dead at the hatching as it is mentioned that her carcass is nearby...hopefully she had not been dead long...and if bronzes or other dragons would take her between why wait til eggs hatched. Once she was dead they should have taken her between
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Old Mar 14 2009, 12:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

It may be that she did just before the hatching, there may not have been time.
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Old Mar 14 2009, 04:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emeraldrose View Post
Jora's queen (Nemorth?) was dead at the hatching as it is mentioned that her carcass is nearby...hopefully she had not been dead long...and if bronzes or other dragons would take her between why wait til eggs hatched. Once she was dead they should have taken her between
Well its based on Anne first story and her work was not fully defind at that point. Here is a Idea perhaps they took here between and its something we don't see in the books, she just as Maw said died when they hattched right there, with most of dragons on Search and R'gul as Wyerleader he was hide-bound, and traditional and waited till just Wyer folks were there and took Nermorth between while most were sleeping, so that why no "keen" from the dragons and that as far as I going on this for now.
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Old Mar 15 2009, 11:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

Anne's actually said in an interview tha she just forgot about Nemorth being there-Nemorth IS dead, but the fact and the disposal of a body slipped Anne's mind. Given that she was writing a short story intended to be a one-shot and only later cobbled it into a book, you can hardly blame her, and of course the story ends immediately on Lessa's Impression so there wasn't any time to deal with 'cleanup.'

To the OP, I think mawra might have a point that a queen who is very close to clutching might have a different view on it--the eggs are highly developed, she has trouble moving, let alone flying--Orlith close to clutching manages to wait for Moreta to come home before going to the sands, but only barely, and Ramoth sneaks off to lay her first clutch without Lessa even noticing!
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Old Mar 16 2009, 11:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

We know queens are territorial (queens battle and as mentioned by D'ram (iirc) in the previous fall queens battled (although Weyrs were more insular). They do want the best bronze but all bronzes are "theirs". Ramoth seems very maternal toward her eggs or her hatchlings to the point that Mnemenoth has to remind her to step back and let them impress candidates...
Perhaps we can just say how far the Weyrs fell in the long interval so that the dying queen did not go between when Jora died (assuming Jora died first she was also dead by hatching of Ramoth or searching of Lessa was she not?)
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Old Mar 17 2009, 04:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

Best example of that, Rose, is the fight between the three queens from the time the dragonriders were still learning (The Second Weyr in: Chronicles of Pern : First Fall). They learned the hard way...
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Old Mar 17 2009, 09:51 AM   #14
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

Quote:
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Best example of that, Rose, is the fight between the three queens from the time the dragonriders were still learning (The Second Weyr in: Chronicles of Pern : First Fall). They learned the hard way...
I dont know that story, Hans. Whats the deal behind that?
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Old Mar 17 2009, 10:20 AM   #15
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

*Totally off topic: everytime I read the thread title I keep hearing an Abba song ..... *
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Old Mar 17 2009, 04:32 PM   #16
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I dont know that story, Hans. Whats the deal behind that?
It's mentioned by Sorka in The Second Weyr, one of the short stories in The Chronicles of Pern: First Fall, but the actual events happen off-screen.

Basically, Tarrie's Porth, Catherine's Siglath and one of the second-generation queens had a massive queen-fight when one of them rose. Only Porth was capable of flying afterwards, but the other two survived, though it took pretty much everyone to separate the combatants.

Bizarrely, given the involvement of a second-gen queen the fight must have happened after at least two turns of clutches, likely more. You'd have thought it'd have happened sooner, particularly with all the first generation queens maturing at about the same time. [I had to go to a fair bit of effort to keep the queens relatively well separated in my first-pass fanfic Dragondays, which deals with the very first natural clutches.]
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Old Mar 25 2009, 08:37 PM   #17
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*Totally off topic: everytime I read the thread title I keep hearing an Abba song ..... *
Thanks, P'ter.

*glares*

*goes off with said Abba song in head*
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Old Mar 26 2009, 11:18 AM   #18
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

And now the song is in my head! Geez, everyone who reads this thread is doomed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kath View Post
It's mentioned by Sorka in The Second Weyr, one of the short stories in The Chronicles of Pern: First Fall, but the actual events happen off-screen.

Basically, Tarrie's Porth, Catherine's Siglath and one of the second-generation queens had a massive queen-fight when one of them rose. Only Porth was capable of flying afterwards, but the other two survived, though it took pretty much everyone to separate the combatants.

Bizarrely, given the involvement of a second-gen queen the fight must have happened after at least two turns of clutches, likely more. You'd have thought it'd have happened sooner, particularly with all the first generation queens maturing at about the same time. [I had to go to a fair bit of effort to keep the queens relatively well separated in my first-pass fanfic Dragondays, which deals with the very first natural clutches.]
Oh, thats the story. Thanks for clearing that up.

That is a bit odd, considering the first batch of dragons were either bronze or gold (and maybe some browns? I dont remember). There were a lot of golds and, being of the exact same age since they all hatched within a few days of each other, you would think their first mating flights all took place at the same time. That would have caused issues that they would know to avoid in the future. Maybe by the time their queens all matured, they had picked out a mate among the bronzes (since the golds and bronzes were fairly even in number in that first batch) and took some vacation time with their mates when the time came for the queens to have their first flight.
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Old Mar 26 2009, 12:16 PM   #19
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That is a bit odd, considering the first batch of dragons were either bronze or gold (and maybe some browns? I dont remember). There were a lot of golds and, being of the exact same age since they all hatched within a few days of each other, you would think their first mating flights all took place at the same time. That would have caused issues that they would know to avoid in the future.
Yup, but because the first queens-battle involves one second-gen gold, they clearly don't figure it out very fast.

Hey, if you want my exact thoughts on the matter, I've got about 100K words worth right here...
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Old Mar 26 2009, 01:19 PM   #20
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Pssst, Litwolf... you really should check that out... and all her other fics...
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Old Mar 26 2009, 04:22 PM   #21
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Pssst, Litwolf... you really should check that out... and all her other fics...
Damn skippy! ^n_n^
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Old Apr 12 2009, 06:21 AM   #22
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Default Re: A Clutching Queen

I re-read Kath fan fic. I miss one section first time around. What puzzles me is fire lizards golds did "blood" the offerning of bronze and browns before their mating flight. For fast energy. The best one I can recall is Dragonsdrum when Sebell's gold flew to mate.

Also would the "tame" ones act in the same one as the "wild" ones? Could their owners feel the blooding along with the mating emotions too?

Sorry about the slowness in my posting I am get tired and heading for bed, I wanted to put my comment in this thread before I when to bed.
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Old Nov 8 2020, 07:57 AM   #23
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Re-reading this so many years later - now I've got that tune in my head too!!!
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Old Nov 19 2020, 11:39 PM   #24
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Dancing Queen!
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