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Old Aug 5 2007, 07:45 PM   #1
bingley
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Default drudges

How much social mobility is there on Pern? If your parents were drudges, how much hope realistically do you have of being anything else? As far as I remember, we don't hear of any drudge children being searched, where their origins are mentioned, they all seem to be children of holders or lord holders or of crafters from the various halls. Or is having drudge parents something you'd keep to yourself? Similarly, would a drudge child receive enough of an education for any talents they might have to be recognised for them to get into one of the halls?

Last edited by bingley; Aug 5 2007 at 07:45 PM. Reason: correcting typo
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Old Aug 6 2007, 03:20 PM   #2
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I think a child of drudges would be educated with the other hold children & if he shows a talent in an area then he could become an apprentance. I would also think that when the dragon come on search then they would be presented along with the other children.
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Old Aug 6 2007, 04:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: drudges

Wasn't Lessa Searched before they knew who she was? Seems to imply that drudges and their children have an equal chance of being Searched.
Otherwise, I agree with Maw. If they have the abilitiy and the means, the children of drudges have the same opportunities as other children. Not like it's a fixed caste system.
Which is not a commentary on India btw, bingley.
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Old Aug 6 2007, 08:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: drudges

That may be the theory, but is their any evidence it actually works that way? I mean in theory a female Muslim could be the next President of the US or Prime Minister of the UK or Australia, but we all know that in practice it isn't going to happen.

Who do we know that has moved up the social ladder? Lessa is a special case because she was actually of Ruathan lord holder blood, not of drudge stock. Where we know people's background, the dragonriders all seem to come of holder, if not lord holder, blood, or from one of the halls. Same with the characters in the halls.
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Old Aug 6 2007, 09:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: drudges

I think a lot would depend on the time period we are discussing. For instance, just prior to the Ninth Pass things were pretty difficult as far as "ladder climbing" is concerned. There were a few people here and there that wanted to pursue a more "enlightned" path but on the whole, most people were considered to have been born into a particular lifestyle and any baby Einstiens born in a seahold, for instance, would still be expected to sail and gut fish. Robinton himself, who became a major mover and shaker for revising a lot of social moresm was actually born to be a if not necessarily The Maser Harper. Piemur and Menolly were early examples of change and after them a lot of traditions concerning roles were relaxed or even dropped.

I don't see Lessa's becoming a Gold Rider was a break from traditions. She came from a line that had produced other Riders before. It was not until the Special School was established that anyone had any real opportunity to break away from pre-established career expectations based on birth.
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Old Aug 7 2007, 10:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: drudges

I always thought that children, unless they were the Lord Holder's kids, were put in general creches during the day regardless of who the parents were. So any talent would be recognized and nurtured. Tho some areas, as in Menolly's case, the Holder wasn't open to change. But then Half Circle Sea Hold was in the back of nowhere so very hard to nurture talent when the Holder is using every hand available when he needed it. So as with anything it all depends on who's running the show as to exactly the way things get done.
But then we don't get much in the way of how children are handled, other than the Weyr where kids are definitely all lumped together.
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Old Aug 7 2007, 10:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: drudges

Given Anne's insistance that drudges are either 'mental defectives' or people that are so lazy they won't work to better themselves, I don't see drudges ever raising their own children. The former wouldn't be allowed to, and the latter wouldn't make the effort.

Instead, as Becky said, they'd be cared for in the Hold creche, which I think extends not just to daily care, but also nighttime supervision (with dormitory-type rooms for the older children, as Menolly lived in at Half Circle).

As such, their parentage isn't going to hold them back and prevent them from being anything more than a drudge.
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Old Aug 7 2007, 11:32 AM   #8
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Lazy? Piemur certainly found out when passing himself off as a drudge that they have to work very hard. Unambitious might be true for some if they have opportunties but don't take them.

It's true that in a badly-run hold the drudges get away with what they can, but I think given human nature any group who don't have a realistic chance to "better themselves" would do the same. If you don't have an obvious talent which would move you into one of the halls, then certainly by the overpopulated times of the 9th Pass when even Lord Holders' sons don't have much of a chance of founding their own hold, you seem to be pretty much condemned to being a drudge all your life. If you work hard, is it going to make any difference to your prospects?
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Old Aug 7 2007, 12:48 PM   #9
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Sounds like much of our world Bingley.
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Old Aug 7 2007, 02:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: drudges

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandi View Post
I don't see Lessa's becoming a Gold Rider was a break from traditions. She came from a line that had produced other Riders before. It was not until the Special School was established that anyone had any real opportunity to break away from pre-established career expectations based on birth.
But as someone else pointed out, F'lar and the others were trying to pick her out before they knew she was of noble blood. So she was picked as a candidate while still a drudge.

Now, you have to look at it from the other direction. Would she have had the empathetic/telepathic ability that got her chosen, if she was not of noble blood? That part is doubtful.

GH
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Old Aug 7 2007, 04:01 PM   #11
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Default Re: drudges

F'lar and F'nor also believed Thread would return, when the rest of Pern, including the other dragonriders, believed it was gone forever.

Just sayin'.
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Old Aug 7 2007, 04:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHarris View Post
But as someone else pointed out, F'lar and the others were trying to pick her out before they knew she was of noble blood. So she was picked as a candidate while still a drudge.

Now, you have to look at it from the other direction. Would she have had the empathetic/telepathic ability that got her chosen, if she was not of noble blood? That part is doubtful.

GH

Think you, GH. I was beginning to think everyone had missed whar I was actually trying to say about Lessa.
But you have a good point too.
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Old Aug 7 2007, 06:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
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But as someone else pointed out, F'lar and the others were trying to pick her out before they knew she was of noble blood. So she was picked as a candidate while still a drudge.
They weren't specifically trying to find a drudge, they were looking for the source of the power they felt, and discovered that it was a drudge who was hiding her true nature -- and soon thereafter learned why.
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Old Aug 7 2007, 10:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: drudges

What about Sebel....wasn't he a Woodsie-one? (Related to Robinton via his mother?) Still, talent and the non-narrow mind of his father, put him in the craft he belonged in. Piemur too was raised around runners, but he was accepted early, into the Harper Hall, on account of his voice. So cross-crafting was a possibility, though not the norm I'm sure.

Seems to me that the children of drudges or "lower class" aren't neccessarily doomed to follow in their parents footsteps, as there does seem to be a couple of opportunities to enter a craft reflecting their natural leanings. Although like everywhere else, I'm sure that there are several people who are not allowed to go to the craft of their hearts desire, and thus do, in fact, follow in their parents footsteps. This though I feel is a facet of the human condition and is not a state restricted to the Pernese!!
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Old Aug 7 2007, 10:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: drudges

I think if a person had talent then they could be what they wanted to be. If no peticular talent showed up during schooling then they would do what ever thier parents did. Wasn't there a woman is one of the books that was choosen
who was from a farming family. Her father did not tell her & she found out at the last min., stole a horse & barly made it in time. I do not rember which book it was in. & in the book a gift of dragon the story about the twins, thier parants worked at the hold, but not the holer & thyey were chosen. As a matter of fact all the older children were lined up for the dragon to look at. Not just the holder's family.
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Old Aug 8 2007, 04:28 PM   #16
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That was Ever the Twain, maw.
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Old Aug 8 2007, 07:20 PM   #17
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The one about the twins was Ever The Twain, but what book was the other one in? It is driving me crazy!
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Old Aug 8 2007, 08:46 PM   #18
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Dragonseye. Deberah's father didn't want her to be a dragonrider because he was planning to marry her off to increase the size of his hold. When he tried to force her back on the Hatching Ground, Deberah's dragon attacked him.
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Old Aug 8 2007, 09:20 PM   #19
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Maw, do you mean Debera?
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Old Aug 9 2007, 02:39 PM   #20
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Yes, she means Debera from RSR/DE who'se father hid the "Announcement of Search"
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Old Aug 9 2007, 07:53 PM   #21
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Yes, that is the one I ment. I do not have it & only read it at the library, I rember that part,but could not rember wich book it is in. THANK YOU.
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