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Old Jul 16 2012, 11:32 PM   #1
littlemann001
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Default How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

Ok I might be getting this wrong- I don't have access to my books right now, I only have the audio books.
In the later books, after AIVAS, I keep hearing the Weyr leaders of Southern as T'gellen and his weyr mate Mirrim.
But Mirrim has a green and I believe that Weyr leaders are the riders of the Senior Gold and the Bronze that flies her.
Am I wrong?
Did anyone else notice this?
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Old Jul 17 2012, 12:47 AM   #2
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

Mirrim's more of a headwoman (like Manora, who trained her). She's also T'gellen's weyrmate.

Talina is the Weyrwoman and the only goldrider at the Eastern (or Monaco?) Weyr. Being indolent, she's quite happy for Mirrim to take over some of the workload that would be done by a junior gold.
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Old Jul 17 2012, 07:25 AM   #3
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

Eriflor is right. Mirrim actually isn't but Talina, the actual Weyrwoman, wasn't good at organising and logistis, so she left most of the day to day Weyr business to Mirrim who was the Weyrleader's partner. So Mirrim is seen acting as Weyrwoman, which fits her character very well, doesn't it? But she wasn't ;-)
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Old Jul 17 2012, 02:08 PM   #4
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

So T'gellen is weyr leader, and his bronze is mated to Talina's, the weyr womans queen -- but his weyr mate is Mirrim?
That is one confusing relationship - I wouldn't want to be around during the mating flights.
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Old Jul 17 2012, 05:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

If you think that's confusing, it gets way weirder in Dragongirl...

Let's see...Lorana's with Kindan, who's also with Fiona, who's also with T'mar, who's also with...is it Shaneese?
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Old Jul 18 2012, 01:03 AM   #6
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

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Originally Posted by littlemann001 View Post
So T'gellen is weyr leader, and his bronze is mated to Talina's, the weyr womans queen -- but his weyr mate is Mirrim?
That is one confusing relationship - I wouldn't want to be around during the mating flights.
His bronze also presumably flies Mirrim's green Path. The dragons aren't monogamous (except Mnementh and Ramoth, and that's mostly that Ramoth doesn't share--she doesn't even like the other Benden bronzes having other queens around to chase despite not letting them have her!) And they're weyrfolk, so they don't expect riders to be monogamous in mating flights, either. T'gellan is weyrmates with Mirrim, but if he wants to keep being Weyrleader, he has to sleep with Talina occasionally. Not a big deal for anyone concerned.
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Old Jul 18 2012, 08:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

It certainly wouldn't be that unusual for Weyrleaders to not be permanent weyrmates. If it had been anyone but Mirrim, there wouldn't be any leadership confusion - but she tends to take charge. Fortunately Talina doesn't seem to care to.

It's a little like Brekke running Southern Weyr even though Kylara was Weyrwoman, except without the hatred...
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Old Aug 5 2012, 09:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

Oh Talina! they were so proud when you impressed, what a rubbish weyr woman.

Talina was ruathan, is it not pern tradition that ruatha churns out excellent weyr women???
and I thought she was at Benden originally before going to southern...... Does that make Lessa a bad tutor....? (can't remember where I read that )

Then again Im assuming something like this happened at Benden with F'lon? hense Manora being F'nor mum?
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Old Aug 5 2012, 11:51 PM   #9
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

F'lon's weyrmate Larna died shortly after she gave birth to Fallarnon (F'lar). Manora looked after the baby, eventually hooked up with F'lon, and gave birth to Famanoran (F'nor) when Fallarnon was about 2 or 3 turns old.

F'lon became Weyrleader the following turn.

Eriflor.

Last edited by Eriflor; Aug 6 2012 at 12:24 AM.
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Old Aug 7 2012, 09:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

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Oh Talina! they were so proud when you impressed, what a rubbish weyr woman.

Talina was ruathan, is it not pern tradition that ruatha churns out excellent weyr women???
and I thought she was at Benden originally before going to southern...... Does that make Lessa a bad tutor....? (can't remember where I read that )

Then again Im assuming something like this happened at Benden with F'lon? hense Manora being F'nor mum?
Talina Impressed at Benden, The queen who Lessa and F'lar were trying to get Brekke to Re-Impress on. (Ruth's hatching) Yes she was Ruathan-bred, at least according to Dragonquest.
I think its more Ruathan tradition that Ruatha has turned out some spectacular weyrwomen, but not all ruathan weyrwomen are excellent.

Hmm... Seems to be an interesting turn of events for Monaco Weyr, Brekke's fosterling is pretty much running the place for the Queen rider who Impressed instead of Brekke's second run. curiouser and curiouser.
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Old Aug 8 2012, 11:18 AM   #11
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

If you were Talina and there was this perfectly trained greenrider willing to take on headwoman/weyrwoman duties, wouldn't you take advantage of that resource? Especially if it helps keep the peace with the bronzerider that happens to be your Weyrleader?

Personally, I think Talina was wise to put Mirrim to work as a pseudo-headwoman and give her an outlet for her skills and mothering nature. For one thing, it sets a tone of respect for female greenriders, which is a good example to provide given their rarity. Mirrim is also not likely to plot against Talina in the manner that Kylara did against Lessa, giving Talina a trusted advisor who has a deeper understanding of Weyr culture than she does and has a unique perspective on Weyr management due to her years under Brekke's care.
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Old Aug 8 2012, 02:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

A Weyrwoman usually has a few junior goldriders to share the workload, at least during a Pass. Talina doesn't seem to have any. Lessa was in the same position during her first 2 turns as Weyrwoman.

There was no Queens' wing till Prideth came back --- I wonder if Talina has one, and who flies in it.
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Old Mar 4 2013, 02:12 PM   #13
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriflor View Post
A Weyrwoman usually has a few junior goldriders to share the workload, at least during a Pass. Talina doesn't seem to have any. Lessa was in the same position during her first 2 turns as Weyrwoman.

There was no Queens' wing till Prideth came back --- I wonder if Talina has one, and who flies in it.
I guess Monaco Bay has a queens' wing. The Benden QW helps out here, but "queens' wings" are mentioned, so probably Monaco Bay helped out, too.

SoP on.:

1 of those wings prob. is the QW.
Quote:
"Monarth's bespeaking Talina's Arwith. I've told her to take four wings at once to Monaco Bay, to warn Portmaster Zewe and to start moving people to safety."
Quote:
They came out again in an air almost as cold as between.It hadn't been bright at Benden, but here, above the Eastern Sea, the sky was grayer: a shade that would make the silvery strands of falling Thread more difficult to see. Benden Weyr faced the probable entry of Thread, glad to have the wind behind them as the wings sorted themselves to their assigned levels. Far below, F'lessan could make out the queens' wings, small dots against the gray of snowy land and pewter sea. Ahead of him, almost motionless, was F'lar, he and Mnementh as ever leading them by several dragon-lengths.
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Old Mar 5 2013, 10:53 PM   #14
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

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Originally Posted by Almaron View Post
If you think that's confusing, it gets way weirder in Dragongirl...

Let's see...Lorana's with Kindan, who's also with Fiona, who's also with T'mar, who's also with...is it Shaneese?
"Like sands through the hourglass ......."
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Old May 2 2015, 02:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

50% of any Wyer is filled with green riders. Why is Mirrim so special? What if T'gellan was bi and his weyrmate was a male green rider? Would the male green rider be accorded special treatment like Mirrim if he was good at organizing and running the Weyr. After all more then 70% of a Weyr consists of gay and BI riders, and organizing is a gay cliché. Having introduced Mirrim's impression of Path into the story Anne set a double standard. Then again the double standard existed since the first word was written about Pern.
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Old May 4 2015, 01:32 AM   #16
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

Mirrim already had several years' training with Brekke as a nurse, and later helped Manora with a headwoman's duties. Monaco was a small Weyr, and having a greenrider who could double as headwoman would be helpful --- especially as she was often out of the fighting wings due to miscarriages.

Normally the headwoman would be chosen from among the weyrfolk (non-riders). It has nothing to do with Mirrim's being T'gellan's weyrmate (other than the miscarriages forcing her to take a less physically demanding role at times).

Eriflor.
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Old May 6 2015, 06:46 PM   #17
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

I think the case of Mirram's 'Specialness' is partially based on the fact that she is the first Female Green Rider in what has to be several Centuries. Remember, by the beginning of F'lar and Lessa's time, the idea of women riding fighting Dragons had passed into obscurity, if not even remembered.

I mean, look at most of the 'Modern' riders reaction to fighting Queens by that time.
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Old May 7 2015, 08:45 AM   #18
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

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Originally Posted by Eriflor View Post
Mirrim already had several years' training with Brekke as a nurse, and later helped Manora with a headwoman's duties. Monaco was a small Weyr, and having a greenrider who could double as headwoman would be helpful --- especially as she was often out of the fighting wings due to miscarriages.

Normally the headwoman would be chosen from among the weyrfolk (non-riders). It has nothing to do with Mirrim's being T'gellan's weyrmate (other than the miscarriages forcing her to take a less physically demanding role at times).

Eriflor.
So then Mirrim is actually the Weyrs headwoman. I guess she carries the title weyrwoman (small w) not Weyrwoman (capital w) because she is also a dragonrider
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Old May 12 2015, 08:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: How can Mirrim be a weyr leader?

The small-w 'weyrwoman' gets used occasionally to just mean "woman who lives in the weyr", rider or not.
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