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Old Nov 17 2011, 12:09 AM   #1
kindan
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http://pernhome.com/tjm/?p=2392

Looks like the working title: "Dragon Rider" and the rumored title "Dragon's School" are out, as Todd announces Sky Dragons on his blog.

June 26, 2012. And a blue Dragon on the cover.
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Old Nov 17 2011, 07:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: Sky Dragons

Sky Dragons?

As opposed to what, I wonder? Swamp dragons? Space dragons? Sewer dragons? Hopefully the latter wouldn't be a good fit, but as bilge-worthy as the current title is....
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Old Nov 17 2011, 10:27 AM   #3
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That's an odd title. Wonder who picked it, and what under the sun they were thinking.
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Old Nov 18 2011, 01:44 AM   #4
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yes, rather redundant. (then again, so is this post...)
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Old Nov 18 2011, 04:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: Sky Dragons

The publisher picks the title or at least has the final decision.
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Old Nov 18 2011, 05:30 AM   #6
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Default Re: Sky Dragons

(SPOILERS FOR MOST RECENT BOOK)

The trees on the cover are interesting (and so are what looks like antennae on the Dragon's head, although that could just be me not seeing the picture properly due to being tired)...so I guess the story's going to stay at Eastern Weyr for the time being? Can't think of any other areas they'd use - Southern's probably off-limits - even if they've cured the plague, they can't really go there without messing up the timeline, cause they'd likely find surviving Fire-Lizards - and Lemos hasn't really played much importance in the story so far for it to be those forests.

I guess they're going to deal with things on the Western Continent, and explain why nobody's living there by the 6th Pass - apparently the tunnel snake hatching fiasco wasn't enough for them to abandon it. This could also tie in with that old Amazon bio for Dragon School which discussed Xhinna taking on a leadership role in the Weyr.
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Old Nov 18 2011, 09:40 AM   #7
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I have so far not seen any dragon on the covers, simular to the discription in the books, so I don't pay a lot of attention to it.
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Old Nov 18 2011, 12:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Sky Dragons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
The publisher picks the title or at least has the final decision.
The author usually picks the title, unless it's a franchise book, in which case it's usually a 'committee' decision. The editor changes it if they think it won't sell or is too confusing (ie "Red Star Rising" getting a switch for the US market as they thought it sounded, rightly, like a Cold War technothriller. Considering the existence of Tom Clancy's "Red STORM Rising", I see their point.)

In this case, it sounds like they didn't like "Dragon Rider" (okay, that's kind of overused by half the books about dragons), didn't go for "Dragon's School" (fair enough, that one's pretty stupid and sounds like it should be an episode of "Dragon Tales" on PBS) and apparently just stopped caring and have a bag of nouns and drew one out of a hat and stuck "dragon" after it. Why they didn't go for "Dragon's Sky" I don't know. Or pick another word, considering that THERE IS A BOOK CALLED "SKIES OF PERN" ALREADY...unless the point is this one ties into that somehow.
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Old Nov 25 2011, 05:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: Sky Dragons

Here is the plot summary of the book from this site:

http://en.risingshadow.net/library?a...&book_id=35107

Following on from Dragon’s Time and finishing the saga begun by Todd McCaffrey with Dragonsblood, Dragonheart and Dragongirl, this is the tale of the fight to replenish Pern’s dragon population and the world’s very first female Weyrleader.

After a vicious plague swept through the world of Pern, there are no longer enough dragons to fight off the current onslaught of Thread, the deadly spore that falls like rain from the skies and devours everything organic in its path.

Pern’s last best chance to rebuild the decimated dragon population lies with a group of young dragonriders and their dragons left stranded on an unexplored island. Leadership of these dragons and riders falls to Xhinna, female rider of a blue dragon, who, as the most experienced dragonrider in the new Weyr, must earn the respect of all who follow her, as not everyone is ready to accept a female Weyrleader.

She must solve the problem of how to get sufficient numbers of dragon eggs, although her newfangled ideas, like letting green dragons mate and lay eggs to hatch new dragons, cause uproar. All the while she must protect her people and baby dragons from the predators and, worse, traitors or all hope for Pern will be lost!
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Old Nov 26 2011, 12:15 AM   #10
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I think I already read that fan fic/RPG.....
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Old Nov 26 2011, 02:51 AM   #11
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While it's name might not be ideal, Sky Dragons was written by Todd, one of 3 people authorized to write in Pern, was approved in major plot points and controversial topics by Anne while she was still of sound mind, and may be the last novel to which she contributed creatively. Your comment is mean-spirited and at this time of mourning seems inappropriate.
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Old Nov 26 2011, 10:04 AM   #12
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There is more than one thread on this board... speaking personally, I like to see discussion of the books continue at this point. And, as crass as the timing was, there's still a very valid point in what Anareth said. Those story elements HAVE already been done in fanfic and RPGs - but neither Todd nor Anne are involved in that side of fandom, and there's no shame in seeing them repeated in canon form. Sure, Ever the Twain was another example of a fandom cliche brought into canon very late in the day and ended up being pretty unsatisfying because of it, but we're talking about a book here, not just a short story, and there's a lot more scope for originality at the longer lengths.

Personally, I'm actually REALLY a lot more excited to read this book now. Green dragons clutching! In Canon! That's one question that was NEVER properly answered before, and we're actually seeing it having been resolved at last within Anne's lifetime.

And look - Blue riders taking pride of place! Lesbians on Pern! The last unexplored Continent (...probably...)!

What's not to love?


[I've actually been thinking about dragonrider demographics recently, and how much and how quickly you need to kill off riders and at what ages in order to make the numbers add up. I'll be posting a thread on it in due course, but in a nutshell, if you want typical Pass clutch sizes and Weyrs the size they are, you need to lose a lot of dragons at a young age. The Weyr is a VERY leaky pipeline, and the age-profile is heavily slanted towards youth, like most military systems (except the Pernese don't get to retire, they just get threaded...). Good reason for the Oldtimers dying out so quickly, and also an unavoidable statistical fact that it's NOT unreasonable to have someone under the age of 30 catapulted into a leadership role. Just thought I'd chuck that in as an aside...]
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Old Nov 26 2011, 05:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Sky Dragons

DRAGON'S TIME SPOILERS BELOW


Aside from the first female and blue rider Weyrleader, doesn't this seems somewhat an echo of Dragon's Time? If I recall correctly (and I may not be--I've only read Dragon's Time once so far) the green dragons were shown to clutch in Dragon's Time, they settle in the Western Continent then, and seem to learn about most of the dangers there. I'm not sure how much more can be done with the Western Continent storyline in the Third Pass--it's obviously inhospitable, they allowed greens to clutch before, and they deal with native predators. I'd be inclined to think that plot summary's this long before the release are questionable, though I am willing to concede the blue dragon on the cover most likely points to Xhinna playing a larger role.
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Old Nov 26 2011, 07:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: Sky Dragons

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DRAGON'S TIME SPOILERS BELOW


Aside from the first female and blue rider Weyrleader, doesn't this seems somewhat an echo of Dragon's Time? If I recall correctly (and I may not be--I've only read Dragon's Time once so far) the green dragons were shown to clutch in Dragon's Time, they settle in the Western Continent then, and seem to learn about most of the dangers there. I'm not sure how much more can be done with the Western Continent storyline in the Third Pass--it's obviously inhospitable, they allowed greens to clutch before, and they deal with native predators. I'd be inclined to think that plot summary's this long before the release are questionable, though I am willing to concede the blue dragon on the cover most likely points to Xhinna playing a larger role.

Right, it looks like Xhinna is the featured character in the new book. The last book brought the beginnings of the western continent exploration but I think it was much more about waiting for Lorana's jumping around time and every character in the book assuming that Lorana would be the one to fix things. The green hatching did take place an fail in the book, which I was intrigued by and I think actually held the most emotional point of the series.

That said, I gather at this point the characters are desperate and wouldn't be beyond trying it again. I think Todd will be able to tell it so it doesn't sound like Dragon's Time redone. McCaffrey books are always more complicated than a 2 paragraph blurb can give.
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Old Nov 30 2011, 05:15 AM   #15
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I'm behind on my reading!

I'm often surprised by various renderings of dragons. They're never what I imagine on my own. I've seen them with knobs before. "Sky Dragons" sounds a bit like a departure from the world of Pern. I'm curious about the progression of titles. One can only create so many dragon prefixed words, I suppose.
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Old Jan 12 2012, 10:39 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Kath View Post
Sky Dragons?

As opposed to what, I wonder? Swamp dragons? Space dragons? Sewer dragons? Hopefully the latter wouldn't be a good fit, but as bilge-worthy as the current title is....
The trees on the cover look like the skybrooms on the cover of Renegades of Pern.

I expect the title is a callout to the terrain in some way; it's as likely as any other guess.
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Old Jan 12 2012, 03:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Sky Dragons

It's probably some small part of the story that's getting expanded for the sake of the title...consider RSR gets called Dragonseye in the US, which is quite a stretch - the "eye" isn't an actual dragon's eye, instead it's the Eye Stone of the Star Stones, and it doesn't make an appearance till the end (and even the story of the creation of the Eye Stone is kind of overshadowed by everything else that's going on...).

Fair enough though, it's hard enough to keep coming up with "Dragon-" titles (how long will it be before we get something like "Dragonnose: Appendage of Pern?)
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Old Jan 12 2012, 06:12 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Almaron View Post
It's probably some small part of the story that's getting expanded for the sake of the title...consider RSR gets called Dragonseye in the US, which is quite a stretch - the "eye" isn't an actual dragon's eye, instead it's the Eye Stone of the Star Stones, and it doesn't make an appearance till the end (and even the story of the creation of the Eye Stone is kind of overshadowed by everything else that's going on...).
<snip> Its is talked about how to predict a pass, and K'van come up with set in stones at the Telgar Hatching, but they only move just before a pass, and how to show it, we see the development of into the Eye Rock and Fingerstones.
Fair enough though, it's hard enough to keep coming up with "Dragon-" titles (how long will it be before we get something like "Dragonnose: Appendage of Pern?)
Yes, and I think another thread was on that around here, but ROFL for the idea.
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Old Jan 12 2012, 08:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
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It's probably some small part of the story that's getting expanded for the sake of the title...consider RSR gets called Dragonseye in the US, which is quite a stretch - the "eye" isn't an actual dragon's eye, instead it's the Eye Stone of the Star Stones, and it doesn't make an appearance till the end (and even the story of the creation of the Eye Stone is kind of overshadowed by everything else that's going on...).
The view of the Red Star through the Eye Stone could look like the red eye of an angry dragon.
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Old Jan 12 2012, 09:05 PM   #20
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They had to come up with something that didn't sound so much like the Tom Clancy title Red Storm Rising.
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Old May 20 2012, 11:38 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Kizz View Post
I'm behind on my reading!

I'm often surprised by various renderings of dragons. They're never what I imagine on my own. I've seen them with knobs before. "Sky Dragons" sounds a bit like a departure from the world of Pern. I'm curious about the progression of titles. One can only create so many dragon prefixed words, I suppose.

Head knobs are mentioned in the Dragonlover's Guide, p.37-39:

"Dragon's noses are more pointed than those of fire dragonets and their head knobs are fully developed."

Is that any help?

Dannette.
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Old May 21 2012, 12:12 AM   #22
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http://www.scribd.com/RHPG/d/9395049...affrey-Excerpt

Here is something that some else posted over at the New Kitchen Table about Sky Dragons
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Old May 22 2012, 04:09 PM   #23
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Yup, the book's coming out very soon! I know Todd is doing a sorta signing "launch party" at Mysterious Galaxy Books in the LA area, for those that live there.
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Old Jun 26 2012, 05:14 PM   #24
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And the book's out. I picked up my copy over lunch and have already read the first 50 pages from the link above. Spoilerific times are starting soon, I'm sure.
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Old Jun 27 2012, 07:09 PM   #25
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http://www.scribd.com/RHPG/d/9395049...affrey-Excerpt

I read this, and I just don't see Pern. It's interesting to see a founding of a place, and yay, lesbians on Pern, but I still don't see Pern. I don't feel it.
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Old Jun 28 2012, 01:39 PM   #26
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I read a few pages of the excerpt and decided I really don't like reading long screeds on a computer screen. I'll wait for the (paper) book. I couldn't follow the plot anyway.

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Old Jun 29 2012, 02:26 AM   #27
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I read a few pages of the excerpt and decided I really don't like reading long screeds on a computer screen. I'll wait for the (paper) book. I couldn't follow the plot anyway.

Eriflor.
The paper book's out, came out on Tuesdays. I'm just about finished reading it. I think the plot really picks up and becomes coherent AFTER the excerpt, unfortunately. The part they showed really is a lot of explaining about the prior books and how it set up to that point, which he integrated instead of putting in the typical prologue.
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Old Jun 30 2012, 07:05 PM   #28
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Its also out in audio, http://www.audible.com/ has it, I haven't listen to it yet.
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Old Jul 1 2012, 02:40 PM   #29
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I forgot to mention that "Mrreows" sounds like baby-talk. If they're a kind of wild cat, why not just call them that?
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Old Jul 1 2012, 03:37 PM   #30
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...especially when 'feline' has been used repeatedly through the series. Question two - how the heck did they end up all the way over there anyway? Life of Pi had a way more plausible shipwrecked cat story, even without the whole thing being an allegory.

Anyone know what type of noise cheetah-type cats actually make? Lions and tigers do more of a coughing, yawning grunt. Lovely sound, that. I thought cheetahs were more of a bark, too...

Time for google!

Okay - cheetah types can chirp a little, like a mix between a smaller cat and a small dog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSickcDomwo
Tigers do more of a groan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVcCxzaQHlk
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Old Jul 2 2012, 07:37 AM   #31
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I forgot to mention that "Mrreows" sounds like baby-talk. If they're a kind of wild cat, why not just call them that?
Because they want to direct them more and more towards Youth and YA?
Very good intro to homosexuality for our American youngsters...
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Old Jul 2 2012, 02:55 PM   #32
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Because they want to direct them more and more towards Youth and YA?
Very good intro to homosexuality for our American youngsters...
When I was in middle school (ages 11-14 or so) I remember the drug awareness education campaign stuff in school made a big deal of cigarettes and alcohol weed being "gateway drugs" that introduce people to harder drugs. The idea was if you restricted access to the gateway drugs, kids wouldn't take up the riskier types.

Years later, I realized the Dragonriders of Pern books were more or less a "gateway series" for readers of SF&F. You might not get people (other than us of course) naming it off the top of their head as one of their most favorite series, but once you mention Pern you'll get scores of people saying, "I remember those books! I loved them!" Lots of fondness, even if people feel as if they've "grown" out of them.

As for "Mrreows"...no comment. Or rather, I haven't read the book so I have no context...although I'm pretty sure one will get a violent reaction out of most teens reading a book if the writer attempts to patronize them. But I haven't read the book so I have no context to know if it "works" or not.

Er...guess I had comments...
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Old Jul 2 2012, 06:35 PM   #33
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Because they want to direct them more and more towards Youth and YA?
Very good intro to homosexuality for our American youngsters...

I can't tell if you're joking on either point.
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Old Jul 4 2012, 08:45 AM   #34
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Well, there is a smilie at the end of the second line...
In the first I was totally serious.
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Old Jul 5 2012, 08:34 PM   #35
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The book only came out here in the UK yesterday (IT'S very EARLY am here ATM) and boy, was getting hold of it bloody difficult! NONE of the 3 bookstores we had locally had it so it was a mad dash through the Underground to central bloody London before the shop shut to pick it up! Sheesh!

Well, I've read it and all I can say, without spoilerising things is that 1) it's not a rehash of Dragon's time: with the greens clutching there is that repitition, but there's stuff to do with trying to protect the eggs from tunnel snakes, and that Todd is turning several aspects of Pern on their ears, but he's kinda been doing that throughout and Anne must have approved so who am I to say if it's good or bad (mixed feelings best describes my opinon...some good, some I have problems stomaching...)

I personally think it reads easier than any of the 3rd Pass books that have gone before, (Flow-wise not plotwise, because I STILL find all the jumping around between times difficult...will be reading all the books in one big block one-after-the-other cos I KNOW some of my issues are to do with forgettimg things between ne book and the next..)

Dannette
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Old Jul 6 2012, 06:21 AM   #36
mara
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Yes I found that difficult too. Because I'm Dutch, it is even harder to follow all the time jumps. I'm ordering the book this week, so I have to wait a bit to read it.
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Old Jul 6 2012, 07:43 AM   #37
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I might be able to inadvertantly help there; when I'm done with all the book synopses I'm doing (four left; Dragonsdawn, Dragongirl, Sky Dragons & White Dragon) I'm thinking of writing a "History" page which will then sum up the summaries - for lack of a better description - and describe the main events of each Pass/Interval; figuring out complicated "timing" storylines will definitely be a part of that!

Looking forwards to getting my hands on a copy of Sky Dragons - by a stroke of luck, I'm the first in the reserve queue for it at my local library...although I'll probably get impatient and just order it on Amazon! It'll be nice to actually know who each character is this time; when I first read Dragon's Time, I hadn't read Todd's books in a while, and every now and then I ended up mixing up two or three characters in my head.

I think what I'm interested in potentially seeing in this book is (probable spoilers) D'gan's reaction to being replaced as Telgar Weyrleader, and also his reaction when he finds his son D'lin has vanished, and how Lorana will die (hinted at in Dragonheart and flat-out confirmed in Dragon's Time)...perhaps there'll even be a cameo of Arith in the style of "Beyond Between"? And of course, it'll be great to see what new fan theories get confirmed in this one, plus this being the final Second Interval/Third Pass book means we can properly go over each of those books and see what changed over time, and thus get a better idea of how Pern evolved during each Pass and Intervals.
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Old Jul 11 2012, 06:11 AM   #38
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Quote:
I forgot to mention that "Mrreows" sounds like baby-talk. If they're a kind of wild cat, why not just call them that?
Quote:
...especially when 'feline' has been used repeatedly through the series. Question two - how the heck did they end up all the way over there anyway? Life of Pi had a way more plausible shipwrecked cat story, even without the whole thing being an allegory.

Anyone know what type of noise cheetah-type cats actually make? Lions and tigers do more of a coughing, yawning grunt. Lovely sound, that. I thought cheetahs were more of a bark, too...

Time for google!

Okay - cheetah types can chirp a little, like a mix between a smaller cat and a small dog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSickcDomwo
Tigers do more of a groan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVcCxzaQHlk
This might be of merit; the felines appear in the Dragon Rider video game, and they make the normal roaring noise like you'd expect they would, but they also make a meow-like growl when they're hurt...assuming the felines are capable of both noises works for me!
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Old Jul 12 2012, 11:19 PM   #39
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Just reserved Sky Dragons from the Library and should get it in a month or so.


Quote:
I forgot to mention that "Mrreows" sounds like baby-talk. If they're a kind of wild cat, why not just call them that?

...especially when 'feline' has been used repeatedly through the series. Question two - how the heck did they end up all the way over there anyway?
Wondered about this myself. In my zoo tycoon 2 encyclopedia entry I just fudge it as

Quote:
In the book 'Dragon's Time' a population of these cats is discovered on the Western Continent. The discoverers named the cats 'Mrreows' after their call. How the cats got to this isolated continent (which is nowhere near Southern) was not explained.
For the Zoo Tycoon 2 cat I took the novel at it's word used the dilophosaurus call found at this site http://www.dinosaurfact.net/Sounds.php I thought it was the perfect sound for a Pernese feline.
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Old Jul 13 2012, 05:24 AM   #40
mara
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They could be terran housecats, stranded there in maritime disasters. In the dragonslover's guide, the cats become much bigger and more robust over the centuries. That would explain the "mreoww".
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