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Old Jul 27 2006, 04:24 AM   #1
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Default Robinton Question

I've just /finally/ gotten to read The MasterHarper of Pern, and I learned that Robinton heard the dragons... Was he a HAD? Or, did the dragons just, er, speak to him?... And why did the dragons slowly began not talking to him, to the point, I assume, he had not been spoken to for years?

I assume this because in one of the other books, he says he hasn't had the fortune of having a dragon speak to him, and immediately a dragon says that he'll speak to him. Which brings me to another question. The way he reacts to this event makes it seem like he'd /never/ heard a dragon speak to him before. =/
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Old Jul 27 2006, 04:40 AM   #2
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Default Re: Robinton Question

Probably the dreaded inconsistancy there....
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Old Jul 27 2006, 05:02 AM   #3
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Robinton could not hear all dragons. Dragons can chose if they want to make themselves heard or not. Remember, in the later stage of life Robinton heard the dragons only when it was imperitive he did.

As for the later remark, yes that's one of the many little descripancies Although with the Masterharper you could always explain this one away that is was politics that had (no pun intended) him make that remark...
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Old Jul 27 2006, 07:57 AM   #4
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Default Re: Robinton Question

along with all the other mistakes...
If it'd just been when he was very small he MIGHT've forgotten it but Simanith always talked to him.
I dunno, I reread MHOP recently and found it almost unreadable! Too many inconsistancies with the other books.
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Old Jul 27 2006, 03:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: Robinton Question

MHOP seems to be its own little universe... course the same could be said of Todd's books, that they're really a different version of Pern. But I'm not going to drag this off topic into that debate!
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Old Jul 28 2006, 12:40 AM   #6
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Good idea Tresa
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Old Jul 28 2006, 04:01 AM   #7
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Default Re: Robinton Question

=/ I'm not a very observant person, but now you guys have gotten me curious.

What are these other inconsistancies in MHoP? No need to argue them or whatever, just listed out...
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Old Jul 28 2006, 03:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: Robinton Question

hmmm....
well, everyone's perfect
Petiron's awful to Robinton
Robinton doesn't get seasick- in TWD he does
He knows how to sail in TWD he doesn't- Menolly's treaching him.
Inconsistancies in age
Mnementh is not the only bronze in the clutch
Larth dies of burns not poisoning
need I go on!
I found more things that jarred there than in Dragonsblood!
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Old Jul 28 2006, 09:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: Robinton Question

And some of the dates utterly confuse me!!!! Though I always thought some parts were cute...such as when F'lon tells Robinton about F'lar's birth...when F'lar and F'nor Impress and F'lon starts chucking Robinton around like a ragdoll...oh and I always chuckle at the part where we meet Lessa for the first time in MHOP...though the inconsistensies are annoying I wouldn't mind a Robinton book from DF to AtWoP...But anyway back to topic
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Old Jul 28 2006, 09:27 PM   #10
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The MasterHealer is a woman...
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Old Jul 28 2006, 09:59 PM   #11
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What's wrong with the Masterhealer being a woman? Someone had to be before Odlive, and I don't remember it saying anywhere that women weren't allowed...
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Old Jul 29 2006, 01:42 AM   #12
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Default Re: Robinton Question

The MasterHealer before Oldive is a woman, and there's also a female sea captain. Women in such strong roles make Menolly's success as the first female harper in ages so much less of a true struggle.

Imagine Menolly being told by her father: "Women can't be harpers! You can sing in the evenings for entertainment, but that's all."

Menolly then coming back with: "The MasterHealer is a woman, and you have one or two female sea captains in our main craft. Why can't I be a harper?"

Even if Yanus had remained set against Menolly becoming a harper, it would have been much easier for Menolly to enlist help and get sympathy from less prejudiced people with other female precedents in living memory.
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Old Jul 29 2006, 05:22 AM   #13
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Default Re: Robinton Question

yeah, and the whole
there's been no female harpers goes out of the window completely if Merelan had been THAt famous.
I mean, there would have been no trouble sending a girl off to do the female role of singer, surely? And Petiron would have been quite keen to find another singer!
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Old Jul 29 2006, 06:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: Robinton Question

I think that is was Robinton could hear the dragons when the dragons wanted to speak with him. Other books have said that the dragons can speak to whom they chose. As far as menolly I think it was because Half Circle was so isolated that they had a few backward ideas. It was Yanus who said that menolly couldn't be a harper not others.

Edith maybe Petiron was upset at the thought of another woman possibly becomming what Merelan had been. Rember he was jealosy in love with her so much that he almost hated his son. Or mabey it was he was getting too senile to remember if he had sent word to the hall about her. He may of thought he already had so there was no need to do so again until he recieved word from Robinton.
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Old Jul 29 2006, 07:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: Robinton Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saylea
I think that is was Robinton could hear the dragons when the dragons wanted to speak with him. Other books have said that the dragons can speak to whom they chose. As far as menolly I think it was because Half Circle was so isolated that they had a few backward ideas. It was Yanus who said that menolly couldn't be a harper not others.
I also got the impression it was Yanus who didn't believe women could hold positions of autority. He reminds me of the father of the foster kids my aunt had years ago--they were from hills of Kentucky and didn't put much believe into new fangled ideas. To them electricity was a new fangled idea. The father had a fit when he found out his sons would be seen by a female doctor.
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Old Jul 30 2006, 05:07 AM   #16
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Default Re: Robinton Question

If Petiron was convinced woman couldn't rise in the craft or not, he sure did a good job of letting Menolly think so...

The tentative explanation I've seen for the Merelan inconsistency is that Merelan wasn't regular Harper, i.e. she wasn't a Master Harper voice; she was a Master Singer, someone (like Halanna) was supposed to receive Harper Hall voice trainign but after that act as a regular performer as we know them, not as a Harper as in a member of the craft. The difference being in Merelan's case is that she married a Master Harper...?

And as for Yanus being convinced women should and could not hold "traditionally" male professions: very much so, and he was not the only one in the Sea Hold!
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Old Jul 30 2006, 02:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: Robinton Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans
If Petiron was convinced woman couldn't rise in the craft or not, he sure did a good job of letting Menolly think so...

The tentative explanation I've seen for the Merelan inconsistency is that Merelan wasn't regular Harper, i.e. she wasn't a Master Harper voice; she was a Master Singer, someone (like Halanna) was supposed to receive Harper Hall voice trainign but after that act as a regular performer as we know them, not as a Harper as in a member of the craft. The difference being in Merelan's case is that she married a Master Harper...?

And as for Yanus being convinced women should and could not hold "traditionally" male professions: very much so, and he was not the only one in the Sea Hold!
That makes sense, with the fact that Half-Circle was quite isolated, and had few visitors who would be likely to object.

Nowhere is it mentioned that Petrion aided Menolly in believing that "women can't be Harpers", but he probably let her believe it simply because he did not want to upset Yanus and Mavi, and he did write to the MasterHarper about his "promising young apprentice", so he must have felt that she had the ability, and that the liklihood existed.
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Old Jul 30 2006, 03:55 PM   #18
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Default Re: Robinton Question

But even knowing Robinton's tolerance and Menolly's talent, Petiron hid the fact that that apprentice was a girl. In DSi, Menolly specifically tells Silvina, "He told me girls can't be harpers," to which Silvina is shocked that he didn't know his own son well enough to trust him on that.
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Old Aug 15 2006, 12:08 AM   #19
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Default Re: Robinton Question

MHoP Is just one of those books I ignore in my love of Pern.
Personally I consider everything up to Moreta canon (with slight inconsistencies) and then accept that every book published after was an almost re-thinking (Hey, at least I was nice and call it thinking) of Pern's history.

MHoP has people using paper, women in positions of power outside the weyrs (Menolly and even all the way back to Lessa in DQ did not know or once ever mention anything about that) and Robinton talking to dragons all of which conflicts with the Pern we see in DQ and DF and even TWD.

This leaves us with all our main characters including the startled, not quite as god like, Robinton we first meet being mistaken or it's an outright PC re-thinking of what we were told about how Pern society functioned.

In other words don't think too hard about trying to make it all fit on this one it won't make sense.
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Old Aug 15 2006, 08:58 AM   #20
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Default Re: Robinton Question

Paper's not that big of a stretch though. There's been discussions elsewhere, though not too heavily so, about how if Egyptians can use papyrus then the Pernese can make something similar. Since papyrus is made out of some type of fibrous grass, it's not like trees are being killed for paper.

Parchment is another thing. Most parchment is extremely thin hide, so no reason that can't be used. But a type of grassy/fibrous paperlike substance makes more sense.
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Old Aug 15 2006, 11:05 AM   #21
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Right but then you would not have had Lessa having to use clay and sand in DQ.
Sure you might explan how they could have it but you cannot "fit it" into why it never shows up till MHoP.
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Old Aug 16 2006, 09:40 AM   #22
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Default Re: Robinton Question

iirc.

Menolly, in DSi, copies her songs onto those new paper sheets. I'm also remembering something about them being invented in one of the first 2 books.

Also in DSi, Petiron is described as being the Fort hold harper, and retireing from there to half-circle. MH has him retiring from being composition master at the hall.
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Old Aug 16 2006, 12:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Robinton Question

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Right but then you would not have had Lessa having to use clay and sand in DQ.
Sure you might explan how they could have it but you cannot "fit it" into why it never shows up till MHoP.

Also, while this answer seems more of a cop-out than an actual explanation - in DragonFlight, Anne had created, to her, a one-off. She hadn't thought the whole world through. She didn't expect the one book to turn into a series or a cult. (Ok, not a cult.)

So she wrote a one-off that didn't have a lot of pre-series thought into it.

If you think about it, series' are way more prevalent today than they were back then. Writers these days need to write with a possible series in mind, just in case the book takes off. Back in the Golden Age of Science Fiction, if there was a series it was normally three books long - which were usually one story split into three sections.

So yeah, I can't explain it logically in DF, but that section was a product of its creation.
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Old Aug 16 2006, 11:21 PM   #24
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Default Re: Robinton Question

Menolly doesn't compose her song on paper. She composes it, Sebell writes it in sand, and because she'd been fiddling with it as she went it was pretty much complete. THEN she wrote it out on paper. Even Robinton in DQ composes on a sandtable.
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Old Aug 17 2006, 09:45 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Menolly doesn't compose her song on paper. She composes it, Sebell writes it in sand, and because she'd been fiddling with it as she went it was pretty much complete. THEN she wrote it out on paper. Even Robinton in DQ composes on a sandtable.
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iirc.

Menolly, in DSi, copies her songs ...
Please read things properly.
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Old Aug 23 2006, 01:37 PM   #26
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Sorry, I misunderstood the point of the post I replied to!
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