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Old Aug 29 2007, 03:48 PM   #1
Hans
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Default Pernese names as real Terran names

The Boll Topic by Gidget started this and I thought it merited its own

On October 21, 2001 *sigh* I posted:

Quote:
I recently received a request from a lady who asked if I could help her with her genealogy. Normally that's not so strange, but she had done an internet search and discovered a genealogy on my site (Elrhan's Pern Site) bearing her family name: Nerat!
Question: Do any of you know, or have encountered, other Pernese names as family names and if yes, which name and where (in which country/countries).
Thanks, Elrhan (Master Archivist and Genealogist)
Several people reacted... the first of whom was some lady named Anne McCaffrey who wrote:

Quote:
Very odd - though I suppose there are only so many combinations of letters for surnames and, with pan-ethnic variety, the odds were one of them would be 'Nerat'. I knew of no one by that name when I named the area.
However, 'Igen' means 'yes' in Hungarian. It was a very hard word to get our Hungarian ward, Josef Kaldi, to say: even in English.

In D'Dawn, I 'borrowed' (with permission) the names of many of my acquaintances since there were 6000-odd colonists.

'Zainal', on the other hand, was chosen as part of the surname of a young email friend of mine.

Elrhan - DID you manage to find her original genealogy? Ciao, Anne Mc
To carry it further...
I actually posted about Pernese surnames existing as real Terran ones way back in October 2000 and posted a list I made from research I did in Dutch telephone directories:

Benden – 19
Bitra – 0
Boll – 171
Fort – 58 (only a few persons, mostly companies and real old forts; it means the same in Dutch as in English)
Ista – 96
Igen – 1 (a company, so not a family name in The Netherlands)
Keroon – 0
Lemos – 1 (plus 1 Lemos Benvido and 1 Lemos de Sousa Barbosa; obviously from foreign origin)
Nabol – 0
Nerat – 0 (the lady who contacted me was an American)
Telgar – 1 (a company called Telgar Valves, with probably a foreign origin)
Tillek – 0

In like directories in Australia were found:
Lemos
Boll

In the Eugene/Springfield, Oregon phonebook:
Boll- 3
Fort- 3
Lemos- 1

In the Stockhom (Sweden) phonebook:
Boll - 10
Fort - 1


Maybe we can revive this checking?
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Last edited by Hans; Aug 29 2007 at 04:24 PM.
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Old Aug 29 2007, 04:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

Speaking of Hungarian/Igen/yes, there is an Igen family living in Wisconsin in 1905 - Samuel, Sarah and Sadie, all of whom were born in Hungary. Samuel's occupation is listed as "peddler".

I've done a quick look in the 1881 England census and have this:
Benden - 27 records - 8 households (none called Paul!)
Boll - 56 records - 10 households (no Emily's)
Crom - 11 records - 2 households

Nothing for the other main Holds, so I checked the names of the minor holds that are on the AoP:

Gar - 14 records - 2 households
Balen - 9 records - 2 households and a lodger (from Germany)
Katz - 3 records - 1 family, 1 lodger (all from Germany or Russia)
Keogh - 200+ records as it's a common Irish name
Pars - 23 records - 6 households
Misty - 2 records - 1 pauper, 1 lodger
Sattle - 1 record - lodger
Peyton - 200+ records
Lewis - 200+ records

And all of that before telephone directories and the like for England!!
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Old Aug 29 2007, 04:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

I haven't checked the Dutch national head countings (of which only the 1947 one is published entirely)
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Old Aug 29 2007, 04:59 PM   #4
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LOL This could very almost become my new obsession which will take me to scary heights!! LOL
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Old Aug 29 2007, 05:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

Oh, this is fun. I like names too.
No Benden or Boll, though there's a Bolls.
8 Duffs, though I know it's not the nane of a Hold.
5 Forts plus 4 Fortes.
Lemos 5
No Tillek, though I had to look close to make sure I was reding it right. Wonder if it's related to Tiller...

I didn't find Keogh, but I did find their cousins the Keoughs! lol. 5 of them.
Katz -13
Lewis takes up all of one column and parts of the ones on either side. And since 8pt type makes my eyes tired, I'm not counting them.
Peyton -7f

Oh, this was from the Northwest Indiana phonebook, which covers 33 towns and cities.
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Old Aug 30 2007, 12:01 AM   #6
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

I find it odd that it's hard to get a Hungarian to say "igen". (EE-gen, roughly. "I" in Hungarian is pronounced more like long E in English, and words are almost always accented on the first sylable.) In my experience, it's one of their favorite words, at least the two I know.
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Old Aug 30 2007, 12:17 AM   #7
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

Well that particular Hungarian was a teenage war refugee. In that circumstance I could imagine him being as contrary as a toddler who's favorite word is no.
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Old Aug 30 2007, 08:31 AM   #8
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

I'm not sure what Anne meant.

My guess is that she means that Joseph said yes to everything like sometimes people do who don't understand what is being said to them (seemingly agreeing to everything that is said). A Hungarian not able to say igen is rather silly so Anne must means something else.
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Old Aug 30 2007, 04:48 PM   #9
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

Found this in my encyclopedia notes

CROM

The Crom Corporation, prestressed composite tanks
http://www.cromcorp.com/

Crom multitech service in France
http://www.crom.fr/

Places to visit - Crom Estate
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/scri...PropertyId=170

Old Crom Castle in County Fermanagh
http://www.irelandseye.com/aarticles.../old_crom.shtm

HIGH REACHES

http://www.highreaches.com/kindred/kindred.html
This was a valid URL when I noted it down the first time...

http://www.pcisys.net/~harbard/highrchs.html (High Reaches Homepage)
This one sems to have vanished too...

IGEN

http://www.igen.com/home.htm

http://www.byggigen.se/

http://www.igen.hu/

NERAT

http://www.atollnerat.com/

http://nerat.vze.com/

http://www.clubwestvsc.com/kelly_nerat.html

BITRA

http://www.bitranet.com/

http://www.bitra.is/

http://www.ua.es/dfing/tra_int/bitra.htm

BENDEN

http://www.benden.com/

http://db.cwi.nl/personen/publiek/zo...p4?persnr=1493 (A Dutch! doctor in math)
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Old Aug 30 2007, 04:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

LOL Thank you, Mr. Micro for benden.com!!!

There is a site in Australia called Ruatha Bearded Collies & Friends.

Also found this: Picture which made me ..... pause.
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Old Aug 30 2007, 11:06 PM   #11
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

Someone in the classifieds of Bird Talk was for the longest time advertising "Benden Weyr Aviaries." I don't have any issues around to check, but I always wondered if someone was going to come after them for infringement.
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Old Aug 30 2007, 11:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

I have some good friends in the Kansas City, MO area whose last name is Hanrahan.
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Old Aug 31 2007, 06:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anareth View Post
Someone in the classifieds of Bird Talk was for the longest time advertising "Benden Weyr Aviaries." I don't have any issues around to check, but I always wondered if someone was going to come after them for infringement.
I did find an online ad for them with a website of www.bendenweyr.com, but going to it brings up a generic portal page.
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Old Aug 31 2007, 07:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

There's a thoroughbred named Benden Weyr, which I posted about on the KT eons ago....
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Old Aug 31 2007, 10:06 PM   #15
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

This topic inspired me to go looking through my local phonebook just for fun.

Thus far, I've only found one person with the last name Lemos. I haven't gone looking for minor hold names yet, but that search is for another day.
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Old Sep 1 2007, 05:25 AM   #16
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Gidget, I had that on my old list but indeed discovered that they have discontinued services (as did a few others).

One of them was: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/2373/ They sold Benden Keeshonden!
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Old Sep 1 2007, 09:13 AM   #17
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Oooooh, Benden Keeshonden?! I want one, that sounds like a good keeshond to get, if one wants to get a keeshond. Which I wouldn't mind, though my cat Cedric might have other ideas.
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Old Sep 1 2007, 09:27 AM   #18
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Oh lordy. Just looked up keeshonden as I had no clue as to what they were (not until Cheryl's post did I rightly assume they were a type of dog) and I have to say that they don't look like my kind of dog

Just got my phone book out to look through it for names and discovered that there is an online search courtesy of BT (British Telecom). Decided to just search London.

Benden - 1
Lemos - 22
Fort - 9
Boll - 3
Hanrahan - 27
Keogh - 50
Balen - 1
Katz - 50
Peyton - 13
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Old Sep 2 2007, 01:22 AM   #19
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl View Post
There's a thoroughbred named Benden Weyr, which I posted about on the KT eons ago....
And..wow, that's a very unimpressive pedigree on him. About all he has going for him is some really, really distant inbreeding to Nasrullah five and six back on his mother's side. Castle Guard must have been an allowance or claimer, or low-grade stakes, though, his record's not bad. And he's distantly, distantly related to my old horse via Ambiorix and Count Fleet (I wonder if that Tom Fool-Count Fleet nick was popular--I've seen it before.)

He's a gelding who'd be twelve now, with no record posted. I wonder if he raced at all. And thank the lord that if they were going to give a horse a Pern name, they didn't name him after that runner "Squealer"! Though I have to wonder how many track announcers butchered the word "Weyr" if he did race.
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Old Sep 2 2007, 05:01 AM   #20
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Quote:
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<giant snip> I have to wonder how many track announcers butchered the word "Weyr" if he did race.
I think 99% is a safe guess
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Old Sep 2 2007, 10:06 AM   #21
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran surnames

He did race a few times at least, because I actually came across him first flipping channels and saw the name in a results list, placing second I think. I searched for more info on him online and emailed it to Alec, who posted a news bit about it on Anne's site.

Thanks to the Wayback Machine, I dug it up from the 2000 news:
Kudos to Sariel for spotting this on her television. On August 27th, the fifth race at Monmouth Park had an interesting result for Pern fans. Although it didn't win, the horse called Benden Weyr, came in second, or "Placed." Sariel adds, "Benden Weyr has been racing at Monmouth Park in NJ since summer 1998. He's a chestnut colt born in 1995 and his pedigree, as listed on the Monmouth site, is Castle Guard - Kathy's Gotta Run, by Proud Romeo . He has won a couple races in the past, though none so far this year (as far as I can tell), and has placed second or third in what seems to be a majority of the races he's entered in. He's always run in the 6 Furlongs length races. His owner & trainer, Ashley Carriker, does not seem to have run any other horses at Monmouth." This amusing item was first posted on The Kitchen Table. Sariel runs Sariel's Guide to Pern.
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Old Sep 3 2007, 05:05 PM   #22
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran names

I know it probably doesn't count, but I didn't want to start a new thread just to say that I came across Mihal as a surname. heh.
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Old Sep 6 2007, 10:30 AM   #23
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Just as a little side note, I worked at Monmouth Park as a groom in the 70's. I followed the circuit from Monmouth to Atlantic City to Garden State and then on to the three Florida tracks. I did this for about 10 years. Oh and somewhere in there I also went to the Maryland tracks. I was at Pimlico for a Preakness one year.
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Old Sep 6 2007, 03:24 PM   #24
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Alan stayed in Bitra when he went to Iceland! Apparantly its a very nice place (ie he really wants to go back!)
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Old Sep 6 2007, 03:51 PM   #25
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You mean Bitra is a placename on Iceland? Or a hotel or something?
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Old Sep 7 2007, 02:02 AM   #26
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I think it's a guesthouse.

http://www.bitra.is/Enska/Bitra_Welcome.htm
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Old Sep 9 2007, 04:01 PM   #27
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I found a place in Afghanistan which is called "Telgar" http://www.fallingrain.com/world/AF/37/Telgar.html
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Old Sep 9 2007, 04:04 PM   #28
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Good find, Ama
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Old Sep 9 2007, 04:13 PM   #29
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Quote:
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I think it is a place as well, typing it in Google mentions geophysical stuff done there and my brother's letter said that he was staying in Bitra for the trip- I'll ask him when I get home.


Its also an island atoll
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Old Sep 9 2007, 05:08 PM   #30
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Hi everybody!

I´m a Brazilian fan of Pern and first I would like to congratulate all of you for this lovely website. I can´t answer all the threads I´d like, but be sure I have lots of fun reading your messages. It´s very good to see other people having nice talk about Pern.

Here in Brazil there is no Pern book available in the bookstores, I´ve found just a few very old ones at shops that sell well-thumbed books, so I had to read all of them in English and It was wonderful.

Regarding this thread, I would like to say that "Lemos" is a very ordinary family name here in Brazil and in Portugal.

I´ve found a website regarding this family name and I´ll try to translate a little bit of it – I apologize in advance for my bad English, but I hope it will be understandable.

------
From: http://flemos.scald.org/historia.htm (flemos = family lemos)

At the period from 600 a.C to 900 b.C a Celtic family named Lemavos migrated to “Província de Lugo” at north of Portugal.

The name “Lemos” is a derivative form of “Lemavos”, a fonetic mutation of it.

------

There is many more about the Lemos family, but I´m completely unable to translate it in a hurry.

Thank you a lot for the excellent threads,

Sincerely,
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Old Sep 9 2007, 05:18 PM   #31
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Welcome!

That's interesting!

(I have to say that I'm ashamed of myself again that all these people speak and type English so fluently and I can only just about struggle by in French- with a dictionary)
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Old Sep 9 2007, 06:13 PM   #32
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Welcome to the forum Nimel, and thanks for sharing the info on Lemos!
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Old Sep 10 2007, 04:12 AM   #33
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Welcome to the forum Nimel, take all the time you need to reply to topics you find interesting.

Virtually all the Pern books were translated into Portugese (paperbacks) and, I think most of them are still available online although not, it seems, in editions by the original publisher "Publicações Europa-América" but through "Editora Livros do Brasil".
Click here for what they offer If I am correct, please say so; I might want to order what is still available from them.
I regularly search for second hand Portugese/Brazilian ones online but as it many countries, people seem to ang on to their McCaffrey books
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Old Sep 10 2007, 12:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: Pernese names as real Terran names

Good luck finding copies you can read more comfortably!
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Old Sep 10 2007, 03:49 PM   #35
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Thank you a lot Edith, Cheryl, Hans and Brenda for your kind answers.

Hans, thank you very much indeed! It was amazing to find not only the website, but to see that they have a small shop here in Rio de Janeiro, near me.

I already have in english all the books I saw in the website, I´ve read all of them in the chronological order and now I´m reading "Renegades of Pern". But I will go to the shop here in Rio de Janeiro to see them in Portuguese and to see if there are other good fantasy books.

Thanks again!

Sincerely,
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Old Sep 12 2007, 01:59 PM   #36
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I have searched for "Keroon" by google and found first of all "Keroon Sofware Corporation":
http://www.keroonsoftware.com/go/index.htm

Then one Keroon family which immigrated from Ireland to USA (NY).

Keroon seems to be not a very popular surname (at least in internet). However, you can often find a word "keroon" in the texts written in Urdu language (Pakistan). I don't know what it means.
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Old Sep 12 2007, 05:42 PM   #37
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Welcome Nimel. Thank you for the info on Lemos
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Old Sep 12 2007, 06:18 PM   #38
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Nimel, if you can buy any clean/good second hand copies of any Portugese/Braziliam Pern books I'll gladly buy them! And I wouldn't mind if you made some modest profit on them either
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Old Sep 18 2007, 09:54 AM   #39
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If it is interesting to somebody, I can explain about the names of Torene Ostrovsky's parents. That is the easiest thing for me.

In general, I like finding of origin(s) of a certain word or name.
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Old Sep 18 2007, 12:14 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaterasu View Post
If it is interesting to somebody, I can explain about the names of Torene Ostrovsky's parents. That is the easiest thing for me.

In general, I like finding of origin(s) of a certain word or name.
(As a Pern Archivist and genealogist) I'm extremely interested!

If I list Russian sounding colonist names, could you detect "regional" differences regarding names? Do names exist of which you could say: hey, that's someone from Tsetsenia, Russia, the Ukraine?
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