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Old Aug 31 2011, 08:27 PM   #1
Kat
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Question Question about Jayge.

Is Jayge ever considered a *Lord Holder*.?

I admit to being far too lazy to start digging around when I figure someone could answer it faster here. .

Thanks in advance.
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Old Aug 31 2011, 10:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: Question about Jayge.

I think he was always referred to as "Holder Jayge" I think that was also in the bargain deal to get Sharra for Jaxom. If he would have made title of LH, I think Toric would have went nuts since he fought long and hard to get the title of LH. Toric's goal I think was to become the ruler of all of the southern continent and oppose the north and Benden.
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Old Aug 31 2011, 10:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Question about Jayge.

In Skies of Pern it was Holder Jayge, that told Tia she rode a lovely green.
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Old Sep 1 2011, 01:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: Question about Jayge.

I don't think so. That's not to say it won't happen in the future, but Pern's in for a lot of changes.

* Right now, Jayge doesn't have any subsidiary Holds that look to him for support

* The centralised support networks of the major Holds, and how they tithed to the Weyrs, has kept the need for Lords Holder. That need is going to change in the next fifty years with Thread gone and the South opening up.

* The conclave is going to lose influence anyway - decision-making will inevitably become more democratic once education expands and life loses its war-time footing.
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Old Sep 1 2011, 12:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: Question about Jayge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biotrooper View Post
I think he was always referred to as "Holder Jayge" I think that was also in the bargain deal to get Sharra for Jaxom. If he would have made title of LH, I think Toric would have went nuts since he fought long and hard to get the title of LH. Toric's goal I think was to become the ruler of all of the southern continent and oppose the north and Benden.
The subject of Jayge's holding wasn't raised at the meeting where Toric's Holding was confirmed, during the early digging at Landing. Piemur was the only person who knew about Jayge and Paradise River at the time.
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Old Sep 1 2011, 04:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: Question about Jayge.

Piemur did make sure F'lar and Lessa had a record of Paridise Hold though, and that Jayge and Arimana were the Holders. Not sure which book.
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Old Sep 1 2011, 04:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: Question about Jayge.

Quote:
* Right now, Jayge doesn't have any subsidiary Holds that look to him for support
I thought he did, though; doesn't the second DLG state that there's several minor holdings established along the river that he supports (South Bend Hold, for one)? I recall Skies Of Pern oddly stating he was Lord Holder of Benini Hold (in Jordan Province) as well as Paradise River Hold, although the former is more likely an error - unless Jayge is only called Lord Holder in the eastern regions because there isn't a Major Holder for the settlements there, and thus he's the closest thing they have to one.

I think by SOP Paradise River is certainly large enough to warrant Major Hold status - it's one of the most populated areas in the east, next to Monaco Bay Weyr (plus the cotholds) and Landing. It's also worth noting that the minor holds being founded in the region would probably look to Paradise River for support, at least while they're getting started.

I could be wrong; I think I need to have another look at the books again for references. But I'm sure that Jayge should be considered a Lord Holder; I made him one in that fic I wrote to support this.
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Old Sep 1 2011, 05:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Question about Jayge.

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Originally Posted by Almaron View Post
I thought he did, though; doesn't the second DLG state that there's several minor holdings established along the river that he supports (South Bend Hold, for one)? I recall Skies Of Pern oddly stating he was Lord Holder of Benini Hold (in Jordan Province) as well as Paradise River Hold, although the former is more likely an error - unless Jayge is only called Lord Holder in the eastern regions because there isn't a Major Holder for the settlements there, and thus he's the closest thing they have to one.

I think by SOP Paradise River is certainly large enough to warrant Major Hold status - it's one of the most populated areas in the east, next to Monaco Bay Weyr (plus the cotholds) and Landing. It's also worth noting that the minor holds being founded in the region would probably look to Paradise River for support, at least while they're getting started.

I could be wrong; I think I need to have another look at the books again for references. But I'm sure that Jayge should be considered a Lord Holder; I made him one in that fic I wrote to support this.
I could be wrong too! My memory of SOP is pretty flaky. I knew he had outlying holdings, but didn't think they were quite up to Holder status themselves, or enough to tip Jayge into the LH group.
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Old Sep 1 2011, 07:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: Question about Jayge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamin of Dragons View Post
Piemur did make sure F'lar and Lessa had a record of Paridise Hold though, and that Jayge and Arimana were the Holders. Not sure which book.
RoP - Renegades of Pern When Piemur, found them, after they found the maps, also Robinton, F'lar aid him in confirming his rankAtWoP - All the Weyrs of Pern, there was a fine sand pit, in the scrub land around the hold, good for glass making,
DoP - The Dolphins of Pern, Pardise River and Paradise River Sea Hold, which is How Jayge's son Readis and Alemi got saved, it on the back cover that say Lord Holder Jayge, I think, my paperback is hard to read, He could be a minor Lord Holder Something in Dragonquest, the Steward called some to that remark, Also they helped moved them down river, beyond the Hold's boundaries, that they helped check out
SoP - The Skies of Pern, as I posted before. After the "Fireball Flood", Paradise River is helping in restoring trees to Monaco area
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Old Sep 1 2011, 08:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Question about Jayge.

well at least I've got a discussion started. I guess I'll need to try digging around the books.

I'm cleaning/updating my map.And have the legend seperated in different columns. If he is considered one then Paradise River has to go over with the major Holds... if not it'll stay in the minor. The hubby asked me how old my map was I guess- timated older than the kid.It's looking pretty good for the moves and such but there's been quite a few books since so I thought I'd take care of it.
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Old Sep 1 2011, 09:50 PM   #11
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Default Re: Question about Jayge.

I just did a search and found a passage in Dolphins of Pern: "We don't have much of one at Ruatha," Jaxom said with immense good humor. "And speaking of my wife, I'd best get back to her. Surprise her with my early return. So I have your permission, Lord Holder, to use Paradise River sands . . ." He turned to Jayge.

However, it appears that Jaxom is just being overly courteous as Jayge is referred to several times in the same passage as "Lord of Paradise River" and "Readis will follow you as Holder of Paradise River."
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