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Old Apr 6 2008, 01:19 PM   #1
TheDarkHorseOne
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Default The Flight of Icarus

Perhaps you kind folks could give your opinion on this question I've had for some time.

Do you think Anne was paying a sort of homage to the flight of Icarus when she wrote F'nor's trip to the Red Star?? I've always enjoyed the interplay between stories of old and authors today, so this one came immediately to mind when that poignant and emotional event happened.

What are your thoughts, if any, and Hans, perhaps you can give us the author's view??
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Old Apr 6 2008, 10:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

There's certainly a parallel, but it only goes so far. Icarus was just being reckless and careless, maybe even a bit proud. Icarus' flight was basically a joyride.

F'nor was mostly doing it to save F'lar from doing it, sacrificing himself for the good of Pern. Although he was a bit reckless as to how he went about it, it was for a definite purpose, not just a joyride.
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Old Apr 7 2008, 11:06 AM   #3
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

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There's certainly a parallel, but it only goes so far. Icarus was just being reckless and careless, maybe even a bit proud. Icarus' flight was basically a joyride.
I would tend to say that the Flight of Icarus inspred the story of F'nor going to the Red Star. But I agree that while F'nor was a bit reckless, he wan not totally irresponsible by attempting the trip. Some dragonrider was going to have to attempt it before too long.

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Old Apr 7 2008, 01:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

I always thought he went to stop F'lar from going himself
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Old Apr 7 2008, 03:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

He did, and largely because Lessa "leaned" on him. I don't honestly see any strong parallel with Icarus beyond the obvious fact that they both flew too high.
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Old Apr 7 2008, 03:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

Same here, Sandi.
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Old Apr 7 2008, 08:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

F'nor didn't fly too high - he crossed space itself. Hmm, well, I guess that's high...

Icarus only went too high on Earth. (Though, with as cold as it is at those altitudes, it's more likely that the wax cracked off of his wings instead of melted.)

I really don't see any parallel at all, personally.
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Old Apr 7 2008, 09:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

Well, Icarus did not take flight completely for a joyride. He and his father were being held prisoner, and they saved their rations to bring the birds close to the window for days to collect their feathers, if I am remembering correctly. The wings were meant for escape. Now, the father warned him not to fly too close to the sun or they would melt, nor too close to the sea for they would become soggy. He got caught up in the exuberance of flight though, in which he then went too high and melted his wings off.

Though there is a slight similarity between the two, and the stories may parallel in that they were both trying to do something about a danger, the overall reason they ended up getting crisped were entirely different.

So.. maybe a slight 'oh, that's a bit of a coincidence' between the two, but I think that's about it.
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Old Apr 7 2008, 10:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

An homage doesn't need to be exact, folks, to the letter of intent. That was my point and question. Not the intent of either flight, but if it was inspired in some way by it.

I did ask opinion though, and those presented are welcomed. I'd like to know if the author had it in mind. Past to present, as it were.
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Old Apr 7 2008, 11:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

A lot of authors probably do have something from past stories in the back of their heads, whilst writing. Look at "Harry Potter" by JK Rowling, she did research things as things popped up in the latter books so why not compare F'nor's ride to Icarus' flight. It's possible. All of us would have read Roman or Greek mythology at some stage and it's possible that Ms McCaffrey did when she was doing her Latin courses - way back in her high school / Uni days - as Roman and Greek mythology do intertwine at times (except they renamed the Gods and other characters differently) so it would have come up at some stage and that she "borrowed" the idea/concept for F'nor/Canth's ride to the Red Star??!!?! All possibilities exist!
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Old Apr 8 2008, 12:54 AM   #11
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

Any parallel seems thin to me beyond the gross physical similarity. The Icarus story is one of hubris. The F'nor story is one of sacrifice. Thematically, there is no parallel.
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Old Apr 8 2008, 01:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

Well, if the fire lizards were Daedalus, the more experienced flyer telling the less experienced one that he's flying the wrong way, then there is at least a minimal parallel. Canth's wings did get rendered useless fairly quick, and if not for the ramp of dragons then he would have plummeted to his death. So there is a similarity in plot if not the motives. Hey at least she didn't try for the Minotaur type story, or pernese a whole story. hmmm.... I wonder what kind of reception Sir George would have had in pern.
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Old Apr 8 2008, 02:25 AM   #13
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

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Originally Posted by ElectricDragon View Post
Any parallel seems thin to me beyond the gross physical similarity. The Icarus story is one of hubris. The F'nor story is one of sacrifice. Thematically, there is no parallel.
No parallel?

I think you're wrong.

I'm still waiting for Hans to see if there was a connection. If not, then it's my folly that thought such.
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Old Apr 8 2008, 03:43 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

I'm very sorry DarkHorse but I don't usually act as a go between for fans with Anne, I hope you understand. People would star sending me (too) many questions and requests for autographs and to get their items/books autographed, which they already do and which I can't and won't honour doe various reasons.

Yes, I sometimes do ask things of Anne but as good as never specific book questions. She has got those more than enough and gets them more than enough.
I advise you to just send an email with your question to Anne, using the "email us" link on her homepage

Personally I don't think there's a parrallel.
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Old Apr 8 2008, 08:56 AM   #15
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

There are a few similiarities but not enough for me to think Anne was writing with Icarus specifically in mind. The way I look at it, how could she have written it differently with the outcome she had in mind (the trip being unsuccessful and ending the question of eradicating Thread on the Red Star)? Given that outcome, the way she wrote it seems an obvious choice and similarities to Icarus are coincidence.
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Old Apr 8 2008, 02:01 PM   #16
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

Everything anyone reads or sees or experiences becomes a part of them. Most of us don't actively have every word of Winnie the Pooh or William Shakespeare humming in our conscious thoughts much of the time, but they are there in the background of our minds. Anne is an educated, intelligent woman and I'm sure she knows about Icarus and Tiggr and Papa Smurf for that matter but that doesn't mean she incorporates them into her work. F'nor's leap to the Red Star was about loyalty and self-sacrifice, values that have been incorporated into many works to very good effect. One of the reasons her books are so popular is that she keeps a firm hold on values and ideals, even in the most fantastical locations and situations.
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Old Apr 8 2008, 03:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

Each of us has differing opinions of what we hear and see. My husband and I often disagree on the meaning of lyrics of songs. So, like this, we can each take from the books what we want. Neither is right or wrong. It is only our own personal opinion.
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Old Apr 8 2008, 04:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

That's very true, L'isa.
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Old Apr 8 2008, 08:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

Before this thread, I never even noticed the similarities. And yes, there are some similarities, but I don't think it's remotely close to being another version of the same story.

Not being Anne, I have no idea how she thinks of it.
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Old Apr 10 2008, 12:47 AM   #20
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
I'm very sorry DarkHorse but I don't usually act as a go between for fans with Anne, I hope you understand. People would star sending me (too) many questions and requests for autographs and to get their items/books autographed, which they already do and which I can't and won't honour doe various reasons.

Yes, I sometimes do ask things of Anne but as good as never specific book questions. She has got those more than enough and gets them more than enough.
I advise you to just send an email with your question to Anne, using the "email us" link on her homepage

Personally I don't think there's a parrallel.
No reason to be sorry, Hans. I think you misread my intent. It wasn't to get the opinion of the writer now, but to ask if one was given in the past. I wouldn't presume that on you or her. You told me what I asked, and I'm grateful.

Appreciate the opinions, folks. I'm inclined to see an attachment there because it's in my mind, but I can't begrudge you folk for thinking differently. I dearly loved that segment, and cried as I read. Anne did proud there in this fan's mind.
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Old Apr 11 2008, 06:12 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandi View Post
Everything anyone reads or sees or experiences becomes a part of them. Most of us don't actively have every word of Winnie the Pooh or William Shakespeare humming in our conscious thoughts much of the time, but they are there in the background of our minds. Anne is an educated, intelligent woman and I'm sure she knows about Icarus and Tiggr and Papa Smurf for that matter but that doesn't mean she incorporates them into her work. F'nor's leap to the Red Star was about loyalty and self-sacrifice, values that have been incorporated into many works to very good effect. One of the reasons her books are so popular is that she keeps a firm hold on values and ideals, even in the most fantastical locations and situations.
So maybe C'gan and his dragon are an homage to Papa Smurf? After all, his dragon was blue, and being as old as he was, he seemed to be the grandfatherly type that people would go to for advice . . . .
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Old Apr 11 2008, 10:47 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

I think you may be right, Shalyn. How about Ruth for Tiggr? "That's what white dragons do best............"
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Old Apr 12 2008, 03:17 AM   #23
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

chuckling quietly over that one. just can't see ruth following that up with a whoo-hoo-hoo-hoo HOOO!
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Old Apr 12 2008, 09:07 AM   #24
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandi View Post
I think you may be right, Shalyn. How about Ruth for Tiggr? "That's what white dragons do best............"
The wonderful thing about White Dragons
Is White Dragons are wonderful things.
Their riders are made of lordlings
Their weyrs have indoor springs.
They're
Smarties,
Agile,
Speedy,
Tidy,
And always know WHEN!!!

The wonderful thing about White Dragons
Is I'm the only one

I'm the only one !



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Old Apr 12 2008, 10:49 AM   #25
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Old Apr 12 2008, 12:51 PM   #26
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Perfect!
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Old May 27 2008, 02:40 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Flight of Icarus

'Attaboy, Ruth! Dare to be different!!

Anyway, really the only parallel that I see between the Icarus story and the F'nor story is the actual physical act of flying itself. Fortunately, F'nor and Canth didn't die doing it, and Canth's wings didn't melt off.Realistically, (and this is sad) but it was probably the re-entry into the atmosphere of Pern that "got him"- that's why space shuttles are built the way they are, and they don't look like Canth! I defenitely agree that Anne had heard of the Icarus story, but also think that she needed a way to reveal F'nor's character traits of him being willing to sacrifice himself for his planet and bravery, so she had that happen. It's kind of like the Sallah Telgar event in Dragonsdawn, but the more modern, draconic version. I'm just glad that they both didn't die!
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