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Old May 2 2006, 01:47 PM   #41
Shalyn
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Default Re: How do dragons die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyna
Ugh....hound the topic to death. IMO - the dragon suicided because of the fact his rider was doing something a true rider - or dragon - would not dream of doing. It doesnt matter if his rider was dying or not, its the principle of the matter. If your mother, wife, husband...somone who was close to you...a part of you...went out and did something disasterous without telling you...how would you feel?

I feel that because of the link between the dragon and the rider, such an unthinkable action would make one feel so ashamed of their partner, that they would rather die than have to live through the consequences. Dragons are not capable of revenge, they were created to protect mankind...what better why to end a tradegy by removing oneself from it?

Dyna
That's right - hound the topic to death - and beyond.

Like ChrisG said, Lamoth was a goner no matter what.

And really, why would Lamoth be ashamed of what his rider tried to do, if his rider believed that what he was doing was right? F'lar killed Fax, and Mnementh didn't between from shame that his rider did something wrong.

So what makes F'lar's killing Fax fine to Mnementh while G'lanar's attempting to kill Jaxom was not fine to Lamoth? Both riders felt they were doing it for the good of Pern.
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Old May 2 2006, 02:10 PM   #42
edith
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Default Re: How do dragons die?

but dragons like Jaxom. perhaps there was shame in that his rider had tried to kill another dragon rider and a friend.
also there's a difference between deliberate murder and a fight you are forced into by the other antagonist AND Lessa!

well, perhaps we've been discussing this a bit long, anymore interesting deaths?
(I was brought up on detective fiction- I like working things out!)
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Old May 2 2006, 02:23 PM   #43
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Default Re: How do dragons die?

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Originally Posted by Chimaerrha
Could they do that, considering her bulk/
Of course! As long as they think they can do it...
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Old May 3 2006, 02:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: How do dragons die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyna snips
Ugh....hound the topic to death. IMO - the dragon suicided because of the fact his rider was doing something a true rider - or dragon - would not dream of doing. It doesnt matter if his rider was dying or not, its the principle of the matter. If your mother, wife, husband...somone who was close to you...a part of you...went out and did something disasterous without telling you...how would you feel?

I feel that because of the link between the dragon and the rider, such an unthinkable action would make one feel so ashamed of their partner, that they would rather die than have to live through the consequences. Dragons are not capable of revenge, they were created to protect mankind...what better why to end a tradegy by removing oneself from it?
The dragon was going between because his rider killed himself--the dragon felt shame because he realized what his rider had tried to do--they were separate events that simply happened at the same time to the same dragon. Had G'larnar not chosen to suicide, I think Lamoth would still have felt shame for what his rider tried to do, but he would not have gone between any more than T'kul and T'ron's dragons suicided when they were exiled to Southern.

Quote:
How does a dragon die...
Injuries too severe of the dragon to recover from (if capable, dragon suicides)
- what does one do with a dead dragon body?
Injuries too severe for the rider to recover from (dragon suicides)
Illness too severe for the rider to survive (dragon suicides)
Illness too severe for the dragon to survive (dragon suicides)
Age (dragon suicides)
Exhaustion (stays in between - technical suicidal error)

there you go....the number one way a dragon dies.....it suicides.

Dyna
You've pretty much got them all, save one--Rider is badly injured or delerious from illness, but a survivable one, however, the dragon panics (dragon suicides)

I think the only case were a dragon corpse remained was Nemorth while she stayed to watch over her eggs--but that was before Anne had finalized the nature of the Pernese natives. To dispose of the corpse, a dragon & rider could probably take them between from the ground.
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Old May 3 2006, 02:56 PM   #45
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Default Re: How do dragons die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edith
Two dragons grab hold of her
go between- it'll have to be low to the ground but that can't be helped, then, on the signal, drop her between then return
Sorry, didn't see that as I was replying to Dyna's quote
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Old May 3 2006, 06:42 PM   #46
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Default Re: How do dragons die?

I always wondered about Nemorth so I asked Anne once and she said that she'd forgotten she'd left Nemorth a dead hulk on the hatching sands
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Old May 3 2006, 07:55 PM   #47
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Another interesting death is Moreta and Holth"s. Orlith stayed until the eggs hatched before going between.
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Old May 3 2006, 07:56 PM   #48
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Default Re: How do dragons die?

Don't forget, C'gan's dragon goes between after he dies - so the suiciding dragon was established in DF.

I assume Nemorth's reaction to Jora's death was a subdued version of Orlith's in Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern. I doubt that they had as strong a bond, but if she hadn't had a clutch she would have gone between. Of course, that section of DF was written some time before the one where C'gan dies.
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Old May 5 2006, 01:24 AM   #49
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Default Re: How do dragons die?

Nemorth's death was written up in the original Weyr Search short, along with "green Larth". The existing text was left essentially unchanged, with the rest added for Dragonflight.
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Old May 5 2006, 03:06 PM   #50
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Default Re: How do dragons die?

That's what I figured. But I think my previous post makes sense both ways!
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Old May 5 2006, 03:30 PM   #51
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2cent Re: How do dragons die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverrider
Another interesting death is Moreta and Holth"s. Orlith stayed until the eggs hatched before going between.
This is true, but still applies. Orlith stayed only until her eggs were ready to hatch....then she suicided with Leri. Nemorth also stayed until her eggs were ready to hatch. This is apparently a mothering instinct to stay as long as possible until the dam is sure the dragonets will be taken care of. By then she was apparently too far gone to go between.

Old age, exahustion, shame, sickness or injury....or a combination thereof.

Taking a deceased dragon and dropping it off between actually seems to be the most plausible action for ridding a wyer of such bulk.

Quote:
also there's a difference between deliberate murder and a fight you are forced into by the other antagonist
Exactly...and dragons do know the difference. F'lar had more than one fight where he killed his antagonist, one even being a dragonrider. He was defending his own life, not out to seek revenge or any other reason.

Dyna
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Old May 5 2006, 11:52 PM   #52
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True (I'm back where I can log in! Yay!)
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