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Old Jan 30 2013, 01:27 AM   #41
Kath
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Default Re: Why was Lessa's talent at hearing dragons important?

Two dragons may be too few for a fighting wing, but it doesn't stop one of them being on call as an ambulance back at the Weyr.

(You can have my in depth thoughts on this in a few months time when I start posting the mega-fic-of-doom...)
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Old Feb 5 2013, 07:55 PM   #42
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Default Re: Why was Lessa's talent at hearing dragons important?

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Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
I think it would be interesting to have a crossover where their abilities are NOT the same - the Talents trying to figure out how dragon-related telepathy, teleportation and telekinesis work!

Not to mention how the dragonriders would puzzle over how the Talents can go Between (as they would see it) to get quickly from A to B...without a dragon.

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Old Jul 27 2015, 07:24 PM   #43
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Default Re: Why was Lessa's talent at hearing dragons important?

It is possible that the different colour dragons operate on different "frequencies" with some overlap. F'lar can get Mnementh to talk to Canth, but not to a blue or a green.

Greens can talk to Greens and Blues.
Blues can talk to Greens, Blues and Browns.
Browns can talk to Blues, Browns and Bronzes.
Bronzes talk to Browns, Bronzes and Gold.
Gold can talk to all. Even WW who don't have the talent can be the 'control station' on this multi-level net.

This setup would prevent the WL from being swamped with information and having to 'yell' his commands over the chatter noise which would fill the waves if all dragons were on the same frequency.

Talking to a different colour dragon may require special effort to get its attention. Fighting pairs (leader and wingman) could be focussed on each other in the fight to the point of ignoring other dragons sendings. This would be necessary because a general "Thread above you!" warning would create havoc as no one would know who was being warned.

Also, relaying messages through multiple stations can garble the message, like the Telephone game. Since a relaying dragon would have to 'change frequencies' in order to pass the message along, the originator would not be able to verify that it was sent correctly.

BTW, if you cannot tell from this post, I have some experience with military radio networks.
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Old Jul 27 2015, 07:59 PM   #44
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Default Re: Why was Lessa's talent at hearing dragons important?

Expanding on my other post:

Dragons can talk to any other specific dragon, but only that one.
Compare: A)F'Lar needs T'ton to have his wing relieve F'lar's in the line. F'lar has Mnementh contact T'ton's dragon. T'ton then has to tell each of his wingseconds the plan, and the three of them have to pass the message to the other thirty dragons. Even with a designated call tree, this takes time.
B) F'lar passes the message to Lessa/Ramoth. She tells all the riders in T'ton's wing the plan in one message.
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Old Aug 5 2015, 11:21 PM   #45
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Default Re: Why was Lessa's talent at hearing dragons important?

Twig Torene got over loaded by, the reaction to the dragons to their riders to reaction of the picking of new Weyrs in The Chronicles of Pern: First Fall: Second Weyr, till her queen was able to buffet her.

Aramina got it so bad that she ending up staying at Benden Hold not the Weyr.
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Old Aug 5 2015, 11:24 PM   #46
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Default Re: Why was Lessa's talent at hearing dragons important?

Quote:
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Expanding on my other post:<sinp>

Dragons can talk to any other specific dragon, but only that one.
Didn't F'lar had the information passed from dragon to dragon via Mnementh, at the first fall that they fought?
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Old Aug 7 2015, 04:59 PM   #47
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Default Re: Why was Lessa's talent at hearing dragons important?

I don't recall that happening, but it would still be Mnementh to each bronze separately, who then pass it on. The information would be passed dragon to dragon to dragon to dragon . . . until all had the information. A visual signal (raised arm?) would indicate 'received', F'lar uses a visual signal to order the jump between - fist pumping, probably followed by an arm sweep to execute.

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Old Aug 8 2015, 08:40 PM   #48
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Default Re: Why was Lessa's talent at hearing dragons important?

One option ... and I'm not necessarily confident in it, but its a thought I had ... would be the coordination of, well, coordinates.

We know that clear and accurate visualization is important for going between and possibly Lessa would be helpful here?

I'm sort of imagining "Dragonriders - we must all travel to Fort to fight thread!" And everyone picks their own random visualization of Fort. So dragonrider J'ry's wing is right over the hold, but dragonrider N'man has directed his wing over to the west and dragonrider C'per's wing is at his fave visualization point twenty minutes away but with a great view of the sunrise over the mountains.

Or if F'lar picks the visualization, sends it to Mnementh, who sends it to the other dragons (and then possibly they send it to their own riders for confirmation before the rider sends it back so they can actually go between) ... well that's a lot of different points for the data to be corrupted. One dragon with a bad night's sleep behind them, gets the angle of the sun a few degrees off ... and now dragonrider Ev'n is half an hour late to fight thread.

Whereas Lessa could choose some coordinates and dump them straight to the dragons, which would skip at least one step (I haven't read the books in a while so I can't remember if dragons will just go between on transferred coordinates - in which case Lessa -> dragons is the full chain or if they do need to double check with their own riders). I imagine that might be something useful though?

Not like - mandatory we will die without it, but it might be convenient. Especially with timing as a factor.

Also, apologies for any typos - doing this off my phone from the car).
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Old Aug 12 2015, 03:02 PM   #49
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Default Re: Why was Lessa's talent at hearing dragons important?

The visualization is a little vaguely done in the books, IIRC. It is stated that the rider must have a clear picture in his head of the destination. Presumably, a transferred image would go F'lar>Mnementh>Ramoth>Lessa>all dragons>riders.

For safety, each rider would amend the image to include the dragons in front of him in the formation. That way, a wing would leave in formation and arrive in formation, with good clearance between dragons.
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Old Aug 13 2015, 02:48 AM   #50
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Default Re: Why was Lessa's talent at hearing dragons important?

Betweening in formation is another good reason for dragons to go between at altitude - the higher up they are, the less of a shift in perspective there'll be between the dragons at either end of the formation. They can all work off the same basic visual, modified for the presence of the dragons closest to them. This wouldn't work at all well if dragons were used to coming out of between a few wingbeats above the ground. Note that although we see them going *in* fairly low, they come out safely high up.
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Old Apr 11 2017, 04:00 PM   #51
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Default Re: Why was Lessa's talent at hearing dragons important?

Dragons never collide with each other when coming out of between. There's a scene in AWOP where Ruth is coming into Landing, and Jaxom hears him give a startled exclamation and then shift. When they come out, the sky is full of dragons. Apparently, Ruth knew that where he was going to emerge already had a dragon and he moved before he came out of between.

I always saw F'lar's excitement in that he could keep in touch with the Weyr. Remember, Ramoth wasn't going to be fighting. So if F'lar needs something at the Weyr, Mnementh can contact Lessa. There's the scene where C'gan is killed for an example. Lessa hears Canth calling for more firestone and sends C'gan.

More than that, the fact that she can hear any dragon, and without the dragon or rider knowing, gives her a huge tactical advantage that F'lar can take advantage of.

But dragons can talk to more than one dragon at a time, especially the weyrleaders. In TWD, Lioth gives out the commands before Fall. i believe there's a passage in Torene's story where she talks about hearing Carenath giving out the orders at the start of fall.
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