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Old Mar 21 2011, 05:29 PM   #281
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Red face Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

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Wouldn't be much fun for any girl with more than a size 34 bust, so I'm betting on a band that goes just UNDER the breast, with maybe a supporting band round the back of the neck.

Eriflor.
In Moreta I found undershift to add to breast band, which got wet, so she was glad the brown shift was woven of stout material.
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Old Apr 6 2011, 09:21 PM   #282
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

How about, Gather= as In a state fair or craft fair, Worlds fair.
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Old Apr 7 2011, 09:33 AM   #283
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Gather = Fair is a good one
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Old May 2 2011, 09:44 AM   #284
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Just been reading Dragondrums, and there's a mention of the highly irrigated fields down-river from Igen Hold which are used to grow 'water grains'.

Didn't see this come up in a search of the thread... would you agree water-grains==rice?
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Old May 2 2011, 09:54 AM   #285
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Kath, yes I agree fully, water grains = rice. I feel a bit stupid because I already knew this and am fairly sure it is also mentioned in Dragonflight.

I just checked my Pern Encyclopedia and it is not in there either *grmph*

So thanks!
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Old May 2 2011, 12:26 PM   #286
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

I've seen rice as "river-grains" so perhaps "water-grains" is an alternate we missed because we knew of "river-grains"?
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Old May 2 2011, 03:48 PM   #287
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Ah... I think you're right, DM! And I did make a "river grain" entry in the encyclopedia; so water grain is a variant. Thank you!
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Old Apr 9 2014, 03:34 PM   #288
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Withies - reeds. Dragonsong, page unremembered, book not at hand.

I think the 'breast-band' is closer to a sports bra.

The fire-lizards fly about and play in a 'fair', as in 'a fair of fire-lizards', but on Earth, we'd more likely call it a 'flock'. However, we also attribute flocks with other descriptors, depending on the animal or bird. Crows fly in 'murders', for instance, so perhaps a 'fair of fire-lizards' is not quite what you're looking for?
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Old Apr 10 2014, 01:06 AM   #289
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Well, the term "fair" for "group of fire lizards" was coined by 7-year-old Sorka in Dragonsdawn, and still in common usage in the 9th Pass, so I think it's pretty reliable! I think they do use "flock" to refer to wherries, though... both wild and domesticated.
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Old Jul 27 2015, 05:03 PM   #290
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Armsman: usual Terran equivalent would be man-at-arms. It may be derived from gendarme (mounted police). I suspect that the colonists established a small gendarmerie 'mounted' on air vehicles to enforce the laws. After the Second Crossing, these became more attached to the Holds and the word slowly altered from gendarme to armsman
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Old Jul 31 2015, 01:43 PM   #291
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There doesn't seem to have been a lot of crime on Pern before the Second Crossing. People were too busy staking their claims to land, and there was enough of that to keep them from fighting over it. All the colonists were psychologically tested for criminal tendencies before they left Earth (though Avril Bitra knew enough to get round the tests). They did have a few "legists" (legal experts) to interpret the charter, and a magistrate to pronounce judgement where necessary. Arrests were made by whoever was available at the time (like a posse).

I can't see why they'd use the French word "gendarme" for law-enforcers when versions of "police" are in such wide use. There may have been a reference in the Charter about the "right to bear arms". Over time the right to use arms against human beings would have become restricted to Hold-guards (armsmen) in appropriate situations, while other people could only use them for hunting or necessary self-defence.
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Old Aug 4 2015, 03:22 PM   #292
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

The RCMP/Gendarmerie Royal du Canada did (and do) much more than simply enforce the law. Their patrols carried mail, medicines, etc. from place to place in the early years. They would provide settlers with an external, impartial person to settle grievances, which would be important if the rest of the community refused to deal with them.

Part of their role is patrolling their territory, so they would check in on isolated people, such as prospectors. They would also spot wildfires, flooding, and would probably note unusual herd migrations, etc.

The term gendarmerie is fairly common in Europe, where many of the settlers would have originated. Settlers who were non-European in origin may have had a problem with the a variation on police due to the history of the police in their country of origin.
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Old Aug 4 2015, 08:18 PM   #293
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

I'm not arguing about the functions of a Gendarmerie as an institution, but the fact that the term itself is in the French language. As such it would normally be used in French-speaking countries (e.g. France, Belgium, French colonies, and French-speaking areas and official documents in Canada). Titles of similar bodies in other countries would be in the local language (e.g. "carabinieri" in Italy).

The Pernese colonists seem to have communicated mainly in English (or a future version of it), even if they still spoke their native language among others of the same ethnic group.

Does anyone want to start a thread about early criminal activity on Pern? It could be interesting but it doesn't really belong here.
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Old Aug 5 2015, 02:03 PM   #294
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

As the inventor of Pern's only private eye (Byrt, an itinerant master smith) I have a personal interest in this thread.
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Old Aug 5 2015, 11:03 PM   #295
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Birthday = namesday = Dolphins of Pern https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...lphins_of_Pern
This copy https://books.google.com/books?id=fq...Gather&f=false
Pg 12
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Old Aug 8 2015, 02:35 PM   #296
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I was using one in 1947!
I'm unsure but, my father may have also used one, he went to a one-room schoolhouse around the same time.

Also they were used in The MasterHarper of Pern, and Ever the Twin
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Old Aug 8 2015, 02:39 PM   #297
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Nameday is not necessarily equal to birthday. It's more akin to christening day.
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Old Aug 9 2015, 01:57 PM   #298
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Nameday is not necessarily equal to birthday. It's more akin to christening day.
Then why is said
Quote:
Swacky's Seventy-five Tuns of living
? Pg 12 Dolphins of Pern ISBN
0345368959 (ISBN13: 9780345368959)https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...lphins_of_Pern this edition.
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Old Aug 9 2015, 10:11 PM   #299
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Then why is said
Quote:
Swacky's Seventy-five Turns of living
This doesn't necessarily relate exactly to the day he was born or the day the birth was registered. Somebody may have mentioned what Turn it was and Swacky said "Hey, that means I've been alive 75 turns!" and they decided to throw a party for him.

Maybe the nameday was the day registered when the local harper came round to register the birth, and may have been out by a day or two. Or perhaps they had an actual ceremony, where both parents had to be present (so if the mother had a difficult birth, requiring several days' rest, it would be delayed). Normally the difference between birthday and nameday would be only a few days (if any), and no big deal.
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Old Sep 19 2015, 03:07 PM   #300
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It just occurred to me that an exact date and time of birth only matters in the case of the law of primogeniture, where a title or estate automatically goes to the firstborn (and usually a son), and there is a multiple birth. On Pern the heir must be named by the current Holder.
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Old Nov 1 2015, 11:56 AM   #301
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But that's because you lived in a backwards country

The rest of the world had pen and ink by that time
I started kindergarten in 1948, and both the lowest grades had slates and chalk. The next year we moved on to paper and pencil, and about 2 years later to pen and ink (those stick-pens that you dip in an inkwell several times per sentence). At some point in High School we were given permission to use ball-point pens instead of fountain pens.

At the Scifi convention I went to last month, it was pointed out that all 4 writers on the first panel were using fountain pens to make notes.
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Old Nov 2 2015, 07:12 PM   #302
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<snip>fountain pens, didn't Jemmy say something about them, about the same time he came up with a slide ruler, and the something else.

He also helped to look up the law information, that M'shall used to good advantage
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Old Aug 12 2016, 04:56 PM   #303
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Possible etymology for the word weyr: This is a corruption of the word 'lair'. The miner responsible for the construction of the new homes for the dragons had a speech impediment, like Elmer Fudd or Barry from the Big Bang Theory. He would pronounce 'lair' as 'weyr' .
Remember that two-thirds of the population at the time of First Fall were children, and that mispronunciation was picked up by them until it became the accepted word for the abode of a dragon. Yes, children can be quite mean.
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Old Aug 12 2016, 05:19 PM   #304
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Possible etymology for the word weyr: This is a corruption of the word 'lair'. The miner responsible for the construction of the new homes for the dragons had a speech impediment, like Elmer Fudd or Barry from the Big Bang Theory. He would pronounce 'lair' as 'weyr' .
Remember that two-thirds of the population at the time of First Fall were children, and that mispronunciation was picked up by them until it became the accepted word for the abode of a dragon. Yes, children can be quite mean.
Thank you! This is the best thought I've ever seen that explains the mysterious word. Is the name of the miner recorded, or is this just a supposition?
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Old Aug 13 2016, 08:01 AM   #305
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OK so I thought "Let's google it" - and finished up here http://forums.srellim.org/showthread.php?t=8185
Talk about going around in circles!
For me the eyrie / weyr link makes more sense than the weir / weyr link
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Old Aug 14 2016, 02:44 PM   #306
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I had tried to find a topic regarding the etymology of weyr, but (silly me) didn't think to use a search engine.

My lair >> weyr connection was pure speculation. In part, it was inspired by a recent non-troversy over pronunciations in the latest US election -- 'aren't' became 'are' and 'big league' became 'bigly' due to failures to properly hear the last consonant.
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Old Jul 10 2017, 04:05 PM   #307
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Marks as money: not derived from the German for money. It is the simplest and easiest to explain method of keeping track of work and purchases (room and board) to have tally boards for each individual. Every job completed gets a mark, every purchase gets a mark.

Room and board could be set at three marks for breakfast and supper, two marks for lunch, and four marks for a dorm bed.
If sweeping a room is worth one mark and cleaning a hearth is worth two marks, then cleaning four rooms pays for your room and board.

When a person earns more marks than they spend, then they would get wooden coins, suitably labelled and bearing a signature, to indicate that they can make other purchases.
The marks are guaranteed by the issuer and the value is set, in advance, by him.

Historically in Canada, French soldiers were paid in playing cards when there was a shortage of actual money. The Intendant of the colony signed the cards to authenticate them as money.
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Old Jul 11 2017, 05:58 AM   #308
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Roman soldiers had part of their earning as salt: hence 'salary'.
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