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Old Apr 3 2006, 10:15 PM   #1
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Default What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Something I always have trouble imagining is the Weyr itself. Along the crater walls, how are the individual weyrs positioned, and what exactly is a ledge, like the ones dragons sleep on? And the inside...what kinds of features are there? I know there is a lake, and hunting grounds, and possibly trees. How big is the bowl?
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Old Apr 3 2006, 10:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Ooooh, you need to get yourself an Atlas
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Old Apr 3 2006, 11:02 PM   #3
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

They're just kind of randomly scattered - the ledges are kind of holes in the rocks. The bowl is pretty big.
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Old Apr 3 2006, 11:03 PM   #4
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Here are examples of FANON weyr bowls:
http://www.geocities.com/northrangesweyr/weyrbowl.jpg

http://www.4dw.net/aerden/imagespern/weyrbowl.jpg

http://hrw.pern.org/images/hrwimmap.gif
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Old Apr 3 2006, 11:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Ooooh, you need to get yourself an Atlas
My library has an Atlas, and I checked it out once, but it doesn't really show what the ledges look like, what kind of foliage is in a Weyr Bowl, how small a dragon is compared to the Bowl (and the lake), and what kind of terrain the ground is (grassland, dirt, sand, shrubbery, weeds, a variety of those, etc).

I'm also asking for how you imagine them, visually. This is both for better understanding of the dragonriders' environment, and so I can give my dragon drawings a background for once.

I'm totally blank on this.
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Old Apr 3 2006, 11:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

There are also pens for the herdbeasts....and just a general area for people to gather.
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Old Apr 4 2006, 12:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeysrule
My library has an Atlas, and I checked it out once, but it doesn't really show what the ledges look like, what kind of foliage is in a Weyr Bowl, how small a dragon is compared to the Bowl (and the lake), and what kind of terrain the ground is (grassland, dirt, sand, shrubbery, weeds, a variety of those, etc).

I'm also asking for how you imagine them, visually. This is both for better understanding of the dragonriders' environment, and so I can give my dragon drawings a background for once.

I'm totally blank on this.
Ah, in THAT case... I did a bit of math, and came up with this to show the dragon-to-weyr size comparison. http://www.deviantart.com/view/31314537/ I'm pretty sure I got it about right, though it's just a rough estimate.

The atlas gives a good picture of a cross section of a weyr, and that shows what the ledges look like... and for the terrain, NO idea, I've wanted to know the same thing too.
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Old Apr 4 2006, 05:50 AM   #8
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

No piccy on the screen I bought up
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Old Apr 4 2006, 08:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily
No piccy on the screen I bought up
Well, it's not really a "picture" It's just a line representing a Mile, and a red square scaled to 40 feet. If there's nothing at all, then try clicking on Zoom In/Out, that might help.
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Old Apr 5 2006, 01:02 AM   #10
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Wow... that picture you did, Spiff, sure makes things a little more clear!
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Old Apr 5 2006, 05:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

More weyrbowl images -
www.geocities.com/harperdaria/map.html

In color, too. I always figure that one has to be good-sized to fit the stream.
Frankly, to fit dragons and all that activity, I'd be surprised if a bowl was less than at least a mile across... It is a dead caldera, after all.
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Old Apr 5 2006, 06:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Cibryen Weyr's take on this: Here: http://www.cibryen.com/world.html

Quote:
Large gatherings, such as hatching feasts, are generally held in the Weyr bowl....At it’s largest point, the Weyr Bowl measures just under two and a half miles across.
Another weyr's take"
Quote:
All weyrs have a ledge overlooking the Weyr Bowl for the dragons to sun themselves on.
http://www.geocities.com/morlevanrpg/FAQs.html
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Old Apr 5 2006, 06:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

GREAT PICT..:
http://www.arolosweyr.co.uk/map/arolos.JPG
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Old Apr 5 2006, 06:15 PM   #14
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

What BE in the Bowl?

ALL ON LINE SOURCES:

"The three joined Mnementh on the ledge. He hovered protectingly over Ramoth as she glided awkwardly down to the far end of the long oval Weyr Bowl. Mist, rising from the warmed water of the small lake, parted in the sweep of Ramoth's ungainly wings." - DF

"They glided down the Weyr Bowl, over the misty bathing lake, toward the feeding ground at the opposite end of the long oval that comprised the floor of Benden Weyr. The striated, precipitous walls were pierced with the black mouths of single weyr entrances, deserted at this time of day by the few dragons who might otherwise doze on their ledges in the wintry sun." - DF

"“Hungry?” he asked courteously of his dragon, glancing down the Weyr Bowl to the Feeding Grounds. No dragons were dining and the herdbeasts stood in their fenced pasture, legs spraddled, heads level with their bony knees as they drowsed in the sunlight." - Dragonquest

"Never had the Bowl seemed so welcome, with its high walls softened and colored by the lambent sun. The black maws of the individual weyrs, set in the face of the inner wall, were voiceless mouths, greeting him all astonished.
" - DQ ?

"I’d swear there were no upper weyr entrances on that side of the Bowl,” F’lar muttered, shaking his head.
“There was access to the Bowl on the ground level,” Fandarel said, his forefinger covering what he ought to be showing. “We found it, sealed up. Possibly because of that rockfall.”" - DQ

" As Lessa looked around the Bowl, at the tables of celebrants lingering long past the end of the banquet, she experienced a wistful yearning to be as uninhibited as they." - DQ

"Orlith paused on the ledge, glancing around the Weyr Bowl. Most of the sun-struck ledges usually occupied by dragons were empty." - Moreta

"Orlith caught the wind flowing down the oblong Bowl, the crater of an extinct volcano which was home to the Weyr. In a distant Turn, an earthslide had rampaged down the range, broken through the southwest part of the Weyr and into the lake. Stonecraftsmen had cleared the lake and shored up the edge in a massive wall but little could be done to clear the lost caverns and weyrs, or restore the symmetry of the Bowl." - Mor.

" Back at Fort Weyr, there was so much activity in the Bowl, readying the two wings, that no one noted their arrival though M'barak had craftily come in over the lake. " - Mor.
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Old Apr 5 2006, 06:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Here's one thing I've wondered, just how many separate weyr caverns ARE there all along the wall faces of a Weyr? It's quite obvious that in the Atlas, the number is significantly down sized, just to fit the basic idea in without needing to draw every single one. I've been thinking of sketching up a rough drawing, undetailed, just to see what it would look like with the proper number of personal weyrs.
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Old Apr 5 2006, 06:46 PM   #16
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Here's one thing I've wondered, just how many separate weyr caverns ARE there all along the wall faces of a Weyr? It's quite obvious that in the Atlas, the number is significantly down sized, just to fit the basic idea in without needing to draw every single one. I've been thinking of sketching up a rough drawing, undetailed, just to see what it would look like with the proper number of personal weyrs.
I can't remember the exact numbers, but I think the Weyrs were fitted to capacity at about 600? In DF, F'lar laments about how pitifully few dragons there are at the beginning of the 9th Pass, but all the individual weyrs would have still been carved out.

Fonstadt said the Atlas also had exagerated some details in order to make them visible--so it's just a matter of imagining the details smaller and more numerous in some cases within the landscapes.
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Old Apr 5 2006, 06:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Canon Weyrs

Fort Weyr was the first Weyr built and occupied during the First Pass. It is located in the mountains of the Southwestern peninsula of the Northern Continent. It was built primarily using high tech sonic/plasma stone cutters to form perfectly smooth walls absent in later Weyrs. Fort Weyr has a capacity of 500 dragons.

Benden Weyr was the second Weyr built, also during the First Pass, using plasma/sonic cutters to enlarge naturally occuring caverns. It is located in the mountains of the northeast coast of the Northern Continent. It is also the largest Weyr, with a capacity of 600 dragons.

High Reaches Weyr was the third Weyr built, the last during the First Pass. It was also the last to use the sonic/plasma stonecutters. High Reaches is the highest in elevation, located in the northwestern mountains of the Northern Continent. It is unique, being in a younger ancienct cauldera, with seven tall stone spires called the "seven spindles." High Reaches has a capacity of about 500 dragons.

Telgar was the last of the Ancient Weyrs to be built, settled in the Interval after the First Pass. It is located in the central northern mountains of the Northern Continent. It has a capacity of about 400 dragons and was initially a mining Hold; its caverns are primarily cut by miners.

Ista Weyr is located on the Big Island (directly south of the central point of the Northern Continent) in a cauldera that opens to a tropical bay. While physically the smallest of the Weyrs, Ista makes up for it by locating dragons in weyr caverns on the *outer face* of the cauldera. Using this unusual technique the Weyr has a capacity of about 350 dragons.

Igen Weyr is the smallest Weyr with a capacity of only 300 dragons. It is a desert Weyr located in the south central region of the Northern Continent.

Southern Weyr was not founded until the end of the Second Long Interval, just before the 9th Pass. It is located on the far northern tip of the Southern Continent, on approximately the same longitude as Ista, Igen and Telgar Weyrs. It is partly built on cliffs facing the ocean, but most Weyrs are located inland, in non-traditional dwellings consisting of a sheltered sand wallow for the dragons and huts for the riders. It has no set capacity for dragons, as new huts and shelters could be built at any time. This Weyr was moved to an undisclosed location far inland in the 31st Turn of the 9th Pass.

Eastern Weyr was built on open areas in the northeastern coast of the Southern Continent. As the need for dragon expanded in that portion of the Southern Continent the Weyr moved several bays eastward and changed the name to Monaco Weyr. Like Southern Weyr, there are no caves, dragons sleep in sheltered sand wallows and riders live in huts near their dragons. Also like Southern, there is no set capacity, with room for expansion as needed.

Xanadu Weyr (planned but not yet in place) is planned as of the end of Skies of Pern, to be located in high granite cliffs in the central interior of the Southern Continent. The area has previous indication of settlement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weyr
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Old Apr 5 2006, 07:07 PM   #18
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Thanks, Chimaerrha! That's a good reference!
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Old Apr 5 2006, 08:03 PM   #19
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Wow... *blink* I think I'm second guessing drawing that now
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Old Apr 5 2006, 08:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Well, I have an issue with that:
Quote:
Benden Weyr was the second Weyr built, also during the First Pass, using plasma/sonic cutters to enlarge naturally occuring caverns. It is located in the mountains of the northeast coast of the Northern Continent. It is also the largest Weyr, with a capacity of 600 dragons.

High Reaches Weyr was the third Weyr built, the last during the First Pass. It was also the last to use the sonic/plasma stonecutters. High Reaches is the highest in elevation, located in the northwestern mountains of the Northern Continent. It is unique, being in a younger ancienct cauldera, with seven tall stone spires called the "seven spindles." High Reaches has a capacity of about 500 dragons.

Telgar was the last of the Ancient Weyrs to be built, settled in the Interval after the First Pass. It is located in the central northern mountains of the Northern Continent. It has a capacity of about 400 dragons and was initially a mining Hold; its caverns are primarily cut by miners.
These three Weyrs were all founded at the same time, in the story "The Second Weyr." Which was obviously mistitled. I would be surprised if they didn't all get to use the last dregs of power in the stonecutters.

Wikipedia is pretty good, but I doubt the people who check entries have read Pern as obsessively as me!
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Old Apr 5 2006, 09:24 PM   #21
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Benden WAS first - they focuses on Benden, then the others.

CoP online: "That provoked a complaint from F'mar, in the name of Telgar Weyr, although work on that facility had not even started.
"The next clutch will go to you, F'mar, especially as you've no place to put them yet but here at Fort," Sean said dismissively."
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Old Apr 6 2006, 08:14 PM   #22
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

But does the 600 include the weyrlings?
And I always got the impression Ista and Igen were a little smaller, even before the DLG. Maybe 300-400 weyrs in those 2.
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Old Apr 6 2006, 08:48 PM   #23
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Ista and Igen are a bit smaller....less riders/more area. I think.
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Old Apr 8 2006, 02:29 AM   #24
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

I think it does. The weyrlings live in weyrling barracks to start with anyway. They can't move to their own weyr in the hillside until their dragons can fly. Only the WW's weyr, and possibly the WL's, have direct access to the ground, all other weyrs are reached from the air only.
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Old Apr 8 2006, 05:08 AM   #25
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

I wonder how they find their weyrs... there can't be too obvious distinguishing features, and nearly the whole inner face of the Weyr except for the part that contains the Hatching Cavern, is completely pocked with holes. For Benden, that's like 550 openings - ALOT. How do they find theirs without landing on several ledges and peeking in to see if it's the right one?

Actually, with that many caverns carved out of the inner face, I'm surprised it can hold up over 2500 years without eventually the first layer of stone all along the face of the Weyr crumbling off
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Old Apr 8 2006, 05:13 AM   #26
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Quote:
Originally Posted by granath
I think it does. The weyrlings live in weyrling barracks to start with anyway. They can't move to their own weyr in the hillside until their dragons can fly. Only the WW's weyr, and possibly the WL's, have direct access to the ground, all other weyrs are reached from the air only.
In Benden at least, the WL's weyr is above the WW's (whose ledge has a ramp down to the ground) and is connected with a tunnel, so he would have ground access. All the Junior weyrwomen have ground level weyrs as well.
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Old Apr 8 2006, 02:12 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff
I wonder how they find their weyrs... there can't be too obvious distinguishing features, and nearly the whole inner face of the Weyr except for the part that contains the Hatching Cavern, is completely pocked with holes. For Benden, that's like 550 openings - ALOT. How do they find theirs without landing on several ledges and peeking in to see if it's the right one?

Actually, with that many caverns carved out of the inner face, I'm surprised it can hold up over 2500 years without eventually the first layer of stone all along the face of the Weyr crumbling off
But don't forget, Weyrs are HUGE. A mile long is quite a lot of wall space, and that's not even counting the width. So it wouldn't be as pocked with weyrs as it would seem. Of course, I could be wrong on this.

It's possible that a rider who ust got his weyr would have trouble finding it at first, but will eventually know which ledge is theirs. It would just take a bit of time to get familiar with the weyr's position in relation to other weyrs.
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Old Apr 8 2006, 03:54 PM   #28
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Yeah. The ledges might have subtly diffrent shapes. Or, the riders could put something distinguishing out... That would work better than counting the ledges or somehting. Think how you'd find one apartment among a bunch of identical ones. By finding some distinguishing feature and using it for reference.
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Old Apr 8 2006, 08:15 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeysrule
But don't forget, Weyrs are HUGE. A mile long is quite a lot of wall space, and that's not even counting the width. So it wouldn't be as pocked with weyrs as it would seem. Of course, I could be wrong on this.

It's possible that a rider who ust got his weyr would have trouble finding it at first, but will eventually know which ledge is theirs. It would just take a bit of time to get familiar with the weyr's position in relation to other weyrs.
Well with what I've done on the drawing (no WAY am I finishing it!) it's VERY pocked. Of course on the drawing I can't make them quite small enough, but you can still see how many of them there would be. The wallspace where the hatching cavern is leaves a very large blank space, maybe room for 60-70 weyrs or more, so it makes the rest that much more crowded.

You're right, they'd probably eventually memorize it, but I wouldn't want to try it!
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Old Apr 8 2006, 11:06 PM   #30
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I'd guess dragons memorize where their weyrs are.
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Old Apr 8 2006, 11:28 PM   #31
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With THEIR memories?!
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Old Apr 9 2006, 01:31 AM   #32
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Well with what I've done on the drawing (no WAY am I finishing it!) it's VERY pocked. Of course on the drawing I can't make them quite small enough, but you can still see how many of them there would be. The wallspace where the hatching cavern is leaves a very large blank space, maybe room for 60-70 weyrs or more, so it makes the rest that much more crowded.

You're right, they'd probably eventually memorize it, but I wouldn't want to try it!
Well, don't forget, there's also height. If it was linear like in the diagram, then of course it would be very pocked, but it has three dimentions. And its circumference is larger than the line in the diagram, too.
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Old Apr 9 2006, 02:28 AM   #33
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Yup, I took that into account with making the uppermost weyrs appear larger and slightly farther apart than the ones at the bottom. Foreshortening's a pain :p
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Old Apr 9 2006, 05:47 AM   #34
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

What percentage of the day do you think the weyr bowl is in darkness/shadow?
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Old Apr 9 2006, 08:47 AM   #35
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Most of it, except for noon hours. I'd guess that the the bowl would be at least mostly lit from about 11 AM - 2 PM. The rest of the day, at least half to all of it would be in shadow.
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Old Apr 10 2006, 07:24 PM   #36
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Quote:
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With THEIR memories?!
:ahem: see what I mean, ChrisG? that didn't take long

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Old Apr 11 2006, 12:29 AM   #37
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Care to enlighten us with the inside joke?
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Old Apr 11 2006, 08:57 AM   #38
Shalyn
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuu
:ahem: see what I mean, ChrisG? that didn't take long

That was nasty, snarky, and totally uncalled for.

But, *shrugs*, as previous evidence has shown, you can get away with it.

(And yes, I *am* being snarky.)

Last edited by Shalyn; Apr 11 2006 at 09:39 AM.
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Old Apr 11 2006, 12:03 PM   #39
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

DQ online:

" There was a soft spring warmth to the afternoon air as F’nor and his big, brown Canth emerged from their weyr in Benden Weyr."

I think dragons remember where their home is - and where their weyrs are.
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Old Apr 11 2006, 12:04 PM   #40
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Default Re: What's in a Weyr Bowl?

Format of a Weyr Bowl:

Dq online:

Quote:
The cliffside was patterned with the black mouths of the individual dragon weyrs, starred where sun flashed off mica in the rocks. The waters of the Weyr’s spring-fed lake glistened around the two green dragons bathing as their riders lounged on the grass verge. Beyond, in front of the weyrling barracks, young riders formed a semi-circle around the Weyrlingmaster.
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