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Old Jun 11 2012, 12:34 PM   #1
Dannette
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Hi,

I have a question, and rather than post my question, get it answered and there goes the thread, I thought people could use this to post their questions on what book did a certain event happen in, and in the future, other people who might have the same query might find their answer here. So here's mine.

Which book did T'Lion Impress in? As I recall his brother was a Candidate and Impressed (I think) a brown, and Tarlion (as he was then) got picked out by a bronze from the stands without being a Candidate. As I recall, his brother was entirely ticked off because he felt it was meant to be his day of glory, and not only did Tarlion also Impress, he got a bronze. (Personally I think Tarlion's brother was a nasty piece.)

Thanks

Dannette

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Old Jun 11 2012, 03:11 PM   #2
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This is addressed in The Dolphins of Pern.
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Old Jun 11 2012, 03:29 PM   #3
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Thank you! It's been bugging me...

Dannette.
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Old Jun 11 2012, 06:34 PM   #4
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We don't actually see it happen. It's basically just T'lion thinking about when it happened. It'll be near the beginning, whenever T'lion first shows up.
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Old Jun 12 2012, 12:56 AM   #5
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Start of chapter five, to be precise!
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Old Jun 12 2012, 05:41 PM   #6
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Follow ups on the careers of some of the lesser characters would be interesting. T'lion is one, and that chappy featuring in "The SMallest Dragon Boy" K'van? Later on he rescues Aramina and goes on to become weyrleader in Southern? Have I got all that right?


Memo to self: Check Hans site (Later) Which I did.There is no mention of K'van becoming weyrleader at southern though, but I'm sure he became weyrleader somewhere
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Old Jun 12 2012, 06:13 PM   #7
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I couldn't tell you which book, but he did, because I clearly recall, as a student, my friend and I spotting a Pern book we'd not read yet (though as I said I can't recall it's title.) My friend had the money on her at the time and bought it, thus earning the right to read it first. I clearly recall her getting excited and bouncing up and down and I asked her why, and she said "The littlest dragonboy is now the littlest Weyrleader!" If I remember correctly, there's no mention of how or why (and that might be an interesting fic), he just turns up as a Weyrleader (can't recall which Weyr) in said book.

And I know I had "Dolphins available a scant 3 months ago and it's, yes, you've got it, been misplaced...:/ I've got an idea though...one of four boxes is the fist place to look, time for a rummage, I think...

Dannette

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Old Jun 12 2012, 06:19 PM   #8
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All my resources are at the new house..or among the boxes of 3,000 + books..which I ain't touching.
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Old Jun 12 2012, 08:57 PM   #9
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All my resources are at the new house..or among the boxes of 3,000 + books..which I ain't touching.
3,000+ books? I know I got a lot of books and keep having to give them away (buy not my MCcaffrey books!) but 3'000+? I don't think even I have that much. Just one tall bookcase. Then again *remembers the large boxes 'O books in the storage, under the stairs, under the bed, in the gas cupboard, by the bed...* umm...maybe I should start countin'

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Old Jun 12 2012, 08:59 PM   #10
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K'van strode into the Weyrwoman's quarters with the briefest nod to Ramoth asleep on her couch. "It's Lord Toric again, Lessa, F'lar," the Southern Weyrleader said....
-- the first lines of Chapter XII in The Dolphins of Pern.
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Old Jun 12 2012, 09:39 PM   #11
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I couldn't tell you which book, but he did, because I clearly recall, as a student, my friend and I spotting a Pern book we'd not read yet (though as I said I can't recall it's title.) My friend had the money on her at the time and bought it, thus earning the right to read it first. I clearly recall her getting excited and bouncing up and down and I asked her why, and she said "The littlest dragonboy is now the littlest Weyrleader!" If I remember correctly, there's no mention of how or why (and that might be an interesting fic), he just turns up as a Weyrleader (can't recall which Weyr) in said book.
Dannette
After T'kul brought his dragon Salth to Ista to try and fly the gold Caylith (in TWD), the Weyrleaders realised things had got out of hand at Southern and sent D'ram to replace T'kul as Weyrleader. His bronze, Tiroth, was old and would probably not have succeeded in flying the next gold to rise at Southern, thus giving K'van his chance at becoming Weyrleader (probably in RoP, though the flight isn't mentioned as far as I recall).

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Old Jun 13 2012, 12:38 AM   #12
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After T'kul brought his dragon Salth to Ista to try and fly the gold Caylith (in TWD), the Weyrleaders realised things had got out of hand at Southern and sent D'ram to replace T'kul as Weyrleader. His bronze, Tiroth, was old and would probably not have succeeded in flying the next gold to rise at Southern, thus giving K'van his chance at becoming Weyrleader (probably in RoP, though the flight isn't mentioned as far as I recall).

Eriflor.
You know, I thought it was - I'm sure I read a throwaway mention somewhere of how Heth outflew surprisingly all the other bronzes.

Don't forget - he's also in The Girl Who Heard Dragons.
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Old Jun 13 2012, 01:19 AM   #13
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Well, I couldn't find what I was looking for, but I did find a small remark in TGWHD on how disappointed Monarth was that Lamanth's cluitch of thirty didn't include a queen egg. Well done Monarth, eh?

T'gellan was flying with Mirrim and K'van at the time, and K'van at least was a weyrling. Mirrim Impressed in turn 11PP, so it's turn 12PP at a minimum, if not later.
Bizarrely, K'van is noted by F'lar as being 'the same age as F'lar when Mnementh first flew Ramoth', i.e. 32, in Turn 24/25 (end of DOP) - a mere 12 or 13 turns since his weyrlinghood. These dates would have him being a tiny weyrling, younger than Aramina, at the age of 19 or 20... ROP dates this scene as turn 12/13-ish, which WOULD fit in with Mirrim being a Weyrling, but certainly not with K'van being one! F'lessan also notes that K'van flew as a weyrling in HIS wing at one point in DOP - how does that work? F'lessan only Impressed in turn 11, too (and he was also dead young)- he MUST have been meaning the same wing rather than his own wing - he can't be more than a turn or two older than K'van.

Bizarrely, Path takes a full four turns before she rises to mate, which goes counter to most of what we know of green dragons. It's implied that she may not have had a full physical relationship with T'gellan or anyone else before then (unless Jaxom was being ignorant as well as a boor). What it does mean is that Mirrim would have gone into any relationship with T'gellan already knowing that Monarth could and would catch queens. That makes the Eastern Weyr situation a lot easier to come about.

You know what would have made more sense though? If it had been Talina's Arwith's eggs on the sands during TGWHD, not Lamanth's. She'd have been 5-6 turns old by the time of that story. Instead, we see that Monarth isn't all that picky about his ladies...

The other solution to all the weird aging, and I think I may have to write a crackfic about it, is this: "The Timing Incident Where All The Character Age Continuity Errors Get Ironed Out On Dragonback"...

When IS DOP supposed to have happened? It really does need to be a LOT later in the timeline than the ties back to ATWOP would suggest - that would age up Jayge/Aramina more appropriately, too.

I'd be more inclined to believe the ATWOP dates than those of ROP/DOP - and the inconsistencies with K'van's age could also be added to the wiki if anyone has the time or inclination

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Old Jun 13 2012, 01:53 AM   #14
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I've always thought it odd that Mirrin was T'Gellan's mate, where as a green rider she could not be weyrwoman. T'Gellan must have had an official gold rider who was weyrwoman. She must have been sadly neglected.

Re K'Van - didnt his Bronze Heth win a mating flight with an older gold? And the weyrwoman quietly encouraged him to his full potential ending in K'Van getting mad with her for some reason, which pleased her mightily?
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Old Jun 13 2012, 02:18 AM   #15
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I've attempted to sort out the timeline inconsistencies; you can read my "revised" timeline here and the reasons behind it: http://pern.wikia.com/wiki/Inconsist...nconsistencies; although I note I might have to have another look at it again now that you mention Path's flying...it seems as though two turns completely disappeared somewhere between Dragonquest & the Harper Hall Trilogy and The White Dragon, as the latter book repeatedly suggests that DQ took place in 10PP, instead of 8PP; if one jumps every character forward two turns, that would fix the date of Path's rising, but it would also mess up just about every other date, as mentioned on the link above...I suppose you could explain the late rising as Mirrim inadvertantly inhibiting Path (similiar to how Nemorth was inhibited by Jora, and didn't rise for eight turns)? Still need to figure out where K'van fits in though...

K'van becomes Southern Weyrleader in Renegades of Pern; at the start of chapter 14 - Piemur muses about it and the many things that have changed since Landing was discovered - sometime between 15PP and 17PP - let's see...his Weyrwoman is Adrea, who Impressed in late 12PP. If a queen rises every two years, then that suggests K'van became Weyrleader in 16PP (and possibly that Mardra and Merika passed away, although since their queens weren't rising they could have just been forced to step down).

(BTW, since I've been reading through each book again to write synopses and stuff for the Pern Wiki, I have text documents full of obscure notes like this (for most (24/31) of the books, but not all just yet), so I can probably answer more questions like this if you want!)

Did Monarth fly Lamanth in TGWHD? I thought the dragons were just talking about the latest clutch...might need to have a look at that again. But would it matter if he had; wouldn't it be just like every other time a bronze flies a lot of queens (I seem to recall F'lessan did the same thing, although come to think of it, that gained him a bad reputation, so I guess that proves your point).

Mirrim and T'gellan's relationship slowly evolves throughout the series, as far as I recall, but we don't actually see them actually getting together in the books, we only see them before and afterwards...I think there's subtle hints of T'gellan's feelings towards Mirrim in Dragonsong, and then People of Pern flat out states he's waiting for her...haven't finished re-reading White Dragon yet so I can't refer to that, but I think they're a couple in All the Weyrs of Pern, by which point T'gellan is also Weyrleader of Eastern Weyr (later Monaco Bay Weyr), which seems to suggest he and Talina got together first - although their relationship seems to be more like Sh'gall and Moreta's; in that it's purely because their dragons mated* - and then later he and Mirrim became a couple - the non-canon game book Dragonfire (taking place sometime between 15PP and 17PP; likely not too long after the end of WD) has Mirrim making romantic moves towards Dannen - a foster brother of Brekke - although at one point Mirrim avoids T'gellan; Path noting that they both like him, but Mirrim stating she isn't ready to see him yet...which could suggest she had a summer romance with Dannen, and then with T'gellan; perhaps just before he became Weyrleader; hence why he has her as a weyrmate despite being Weyrleader?

*It's an odd situation in any case, but perhaps Talina has a weyrmate of her own; something like the love...tetrahedron in Dragongirl? In any case, I expect her role in the story is simply to show the polygamy that can occur in the Weyrs?

@Lily; you're thinking of K'vin and Zulaya in Red Star Rising/Dragonseye

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Old Jun 13 2012, 06:24 AM   #16
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I've always thought it odd that Mirrin was T'Gellan's mate, where as a green rider she could not be weyrwoman. T'Gellan must have had an official gold rider who was weyrwoman. She must have been sadly neglected.
Why do you find it odd? I find the expectation that Weyrleaders should always be in love with each other and no-one else to be far more odd, to be honest - what are the chances of it, honestly?

Mirrim and T'gellan are more in the same line as Moreta - and arguably Talina is as well. Mirrim's still an ex-headwoman-in-training and has all the psychological cachet of being a female rider in an era when women (formerly) only rode gold. There's nothing to stop her stepping forward and setting a precedent, if it gets the job of running the Weyr done well.
Talina's shown not to mind the relationship between T'gellan and Mirrim, and is even appreciative of the management role that Mirrim takes on. What's to say that she doesn't have a lover of her own?

Okay, Mirrim and T'gellan aren't as discreet about things as Moreta was, but they clearly had an uinderstanding from way back to before Mirrim Impressed, likely even before Talina did (the same hatching as Ruth/Jaxom). And T'gellan having an extended relationship with the rider of a fighting dragon is incomparably better than the relationships we've seen some of the other Weyrleaders indulging in. [Kylara, Mardra: I'm looking at you. And the Oldtime Weyrleaders who took their pick of Hold girls...]

As for Talina's relationships, and whether she ought to expect to have one with T'gellan... well, look. She's seen - in Brekke - EXACTLY what you get if you try and make a flight count for more than it needs to. Does anyone think it likely that she's ever forgotten the fact that she gave the first chance of Impressing HER dragon to dead-eyed, dead-souled Brekke? She's got her queen, her comfortable life, a Weyrleader who does his job and a Mirrim who does hers... I wouldn't call that being sadly neglected, I'd call it a very resaonable and mature compromise.


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Re K'Van - didnt his Bronze Heth win a mating flight with an older gold? And the weyrwoman quietly encouraged him to his full potential ending in K'Van getting mad with her for some reason, which pleased her mightily?
No, that was K'VIN in Dragonseye/Red Star Rising. Whole different Pass...
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Old Jun 13 2012, 06:35 AM   #17
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I've attempted to sort out the timeline inconsistencies; you can read my "revised" timeline here and the reasons behind it: http://pern.wikia.com/wiki/Inconsist...nconsistencies; although I note I might have to have another look at it again now that you mention Path's flying...it seems as though two turns completely disappeared somewhere between Dragonquest & the Harper Hall Trilogy and The White Dragon, as the latter book repeatedly suggests that DQ took place in 10PP, instead of 8PP; if one jumps every character forward two turns, that would fix the date of Path's rising, but it would also mess up just about every other date, as mentioned on the link above...I suppose you could explain the late rising as Mirrim inadvertantly inhibiting Path (similiar to how Nemorth was inhibited by Jora, and didn't rise for eight turns)?
Path rises for the first time in 15PP according to The White Dragon - even if she Impressed as late as 11PP, that first flight is well overdue. I don't think there's much scope for shifting Dragondrums relative to TWD? But yeah, Jora/Nemorth were VERY inhibited... and maybe Brekke's experience rubbed off on Mirrim, too?

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Still need to figure out where K'van fits in though...

K'van becomes Southern Weyrleader in Renegades of Pern; at the start of chapter 14 - Piemur muses about it and the many things that have changed since Landing was discovered - sometime between 15PP and 17PP - let's see...his Weyrwoman is Adrea, who Impressed in late 12PP. If a queen rises every two years, then that suggests K'van became Weyrleader in 16PP (and possibly that Mardra and Merika passed away, although since their queens weren't rising they could have just been forced to step down).
Queens have their FIRST rising at about two years old. After that, they rise more frequently. You can't narrow it down better than somewhere between 15-17PP. Best solution, I think, is to ignore the fact that he's a Weyrling in TGWHD - perhaps he's like T'lion, and having Impressed at such a young age, was held back from the fighting Wings until he hit 16? That would allow for him being as old as 15-ish (how old was Aramina then? She thinks he's younger than her.) in 12PP, barely of age when the Southern Weyrleadership is contested in [somewhere in 15-17]PP, and ten years later he's only a few years off F'lar's estimate of 32. At that point, F'lar's in his late fifties... maybe we're looking at early-onset dementia?!

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Did Monarth fly Lamanth in TGWHD? I thought the dragons were just talking about the latest clutch...might need to have a look at that again.
It's not direct evidence, but it's clearly implied between the lines. Why else would a bronze be disappointed in the lack of a queen egg?

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But would it matter if he had; wouldn't it be just like every other time a bronze flies a lot of queens (I seem to recall F'lessan did the same thing, although come to think of it, that gained him a bad reputation, so I guess that proves your point).
I only mentioned it because if he HAD flown Lamanth, Mirrim would be well aware of Monarth's capabilities even before they weyrmated. Monarth later flying Arwith wouldn't be a big shock to her.

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and then People of Pern flat out states he's waiting for her..

the non-canon game book Dragonfire (taking place sometime between 15PP and 17PP; likely not too long after the end of WD) has Mirrim making romantic moves towards Dannen - a foster brother of Brekke - although at one point Mirrim avoids T'gellan; Path noting that they both like him, but Mirrim stating she isn't ready to see him yet...which could suggest she had a summer romance with Dannen, and then with T'gellan; perhaps just before he became Weyrleader; hence why he has her as a weyrmate despite being Weyrleader?
Thanks I didn't know about those bits.

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*It's an odd situation in any case, but perhaps Talina has a weyrmate of her own; something like the love...tetrahedron in Dragongirl? In any case, I expect her role in the story is simply to show the polygamy that can occur in the Weyrs?
My new pet theory: Talina has eyes only for Mirrim.

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Old Jun 13 2012, 12:32 PM   #18
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3,000+ books? I know I got a lot of books and keep having to give them away (buy not my MCcaffrey books!) but 3'000+? I don't think even I have that much. Just one tall bookcase. Then again *remembers the large boxes 'O books in the storage, under the stairs, under the bed, in the gas cupboard, by the bed...* umm...maybe I should start countin'

Dannette
We probably have over 10,000 in our family all-told now, if you count children's books. I think as far as the ones of mine my mother still catalog houss (ie when she can find them and they aren't in my hosue) I'm up to around 3000 of my personal books. Her general list is over 7000, and I have no idea what my brother's up to by now...

I never give books away, either unless they're utter garbage (general fiction or romance, usually). I also have a habit of 'adopting' them at Goodwill. I'm sure we have more than my parents' township library, but that's quite small. I don't know how people get by with so few. I have a couple hundred cookbooks alone...
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Old Jun 13 2012, 03:49 PM   #19
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Queens have their FIRST rising at about two years old. After that, they rise more frequently. You can't narrow it down better than somewhere between 15-17PP. Best solution, I think, is to ignore the fact that he's a Weyrling in TGWHD - perhaps he's like T'lion, and having Impressed at such a young age, was held back from the fighting Wings until he hit 16? That would allow for him being as old as 15-ish (how old was Aramina then? She thinks he's younger than her.) in 12PP, barely of age when the Southern Weyrleadership is contested in [somewhere in 15-17]PP, and ten years later he's only a few years off F'lar's estimate of 32. At that point, F'lar's in his late fifties... maybe we're looking at early-onset dementia?!
Whoops; thought the queens rose every two years instead of twice a year(or occasionally three times, according to the DLG). But I like the ideas you've listed!

While reading through the DLG, I found a note that weyrlings can join a fighting wing after a turn...would that help solve K'van's age? Frankly there's so many age problems I think it's simpler to ignore the contradicting ages and just get as close as you can. The worst example would be Readis; who somehow ages something like seven years over three turns towards the end of Dolphins of Pern.

On another note, G'dened goes from being too young to fight Thread in the Eighth Pass (in the People of Pern), to the oldest of the Weyrleaders (in Skies of Pern)? G'narish is still Weyrleader at this point; if he is younger than G'dened this could suggest he became Weyrleader of Igen Weyr after coming forward in time?
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Old Jun 14 2012, 12:52 AM   #20
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Whoops; thought the queens rose every two years instead of twice a year(or occasionally three times, according to the DLG). But I like the ideas you've listed!
Three times would be close to impossible - They have four and a half months between mating and clutching. It's numerically possible for a queen to rise three times in a single year, barely... but I don't think it would happen in reality.

The other probelm is demographics. When the population is stable, the birth rate needs to match the death rate from injury, age and accident. If you want the average queen to have a clutch of 25 (I think that's what Orlith had mid-Pass, right? You REALLY don't want them all being super-Ramoths, and even Prideth only just got into the thirties when Pern was in crisis), and you have three or four of them rising once a turn - that's up to a hundred dragons being born every year. If you don't want the population growing exponentially, and you want to limit the stable population to <500 dragons (this is actually more crucial), you need to kill off at least a quarter of those dragons in Weyrling training and make Threadfall very, very hazardous to health, particularly to younger riders.

Anyway. That's the problem. The more frequently a queen rises, the worse it gets. I'd limit a queen's rising to every half-turn only in the run up to a Pass, and let it settle down to 9-18months once the pressure is off, letting the younger queens rise more frequently than older ones. In an interval, then anything from every 1-5 years would be more reasonable, with smaller clutches of <20 eggs.


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While reading through the DLG, I found a note that weyrlings can join a fighting wing after a turn...would that help solve K'van's age?
That'd be worse. He needs to be as close to 32 as possible by the end of DOP. Given how young he Impressed, and him being named as a Weyrling in TGWHD, he needs to be an OLD weyrling there. The T'lion-solution helps, but doesn't solve it.

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On another note, G'dened goes from being too young to fight Thread in the Eighth Pass (in the People of Pern), to the oldest of the Weyrleaders (in Skies of Pern)? G'narish is still Weyrleader at this point; if he is younger than G'dened this could suggest he became Weyrleader of Igen Weyr after coming forward in time?
Could be!
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Old Jun 14 2012, 03:31 AM   #21
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If I remember correctley the queens clutches grow bigger when a pass is on the edge. In interval the queens matingflight isn't so high and long, so there are less eggs.
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Old Jun 14 2012, 04:38 AM   #22
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If I remember correctley the queens clutches grow bigger when a pass is on the edge. In interval the queens matingflight isn't so high and long, so there are less eggs.
Yes, that really goes without saying.
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Old Jun 14 2012, 11:31 AM   #23
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Orlith clutched 25, including a queen, at the END of a Pass (in Moreta they were coming up on the Interval close enough the dragonriders were actively planning what they were going to do without Thread and all expected to see the end of the Pass.) The implication seemed to be the queens were slowing down frequency of flights and number of eggs, which added to the problem when dragons died as their riders died of plague.
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Old Jun 14 2012, 12:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: "In what book did I read about..."

I'd forgotten it was as little as seven years to the end of the Pass.

I still think that's far enough for the usual attrition of mid-Pass to apply, except that Threadfalls would presumably soon be getting lighter by then as well.
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Old Jun 15 2012, 04:47 PM   #25
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Default Re: "In what book did I read about..."

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That'd be worse. He needs to be as close to 32 as possible by the end of DOP. Given how young he Impressed, and him being named as a Weyrling in TGWHD, he needs to be an OLD weyrling there. The T'lion-solution helps, but doesn't solve it.
I guess he's got the same problem as Readis then - somehow aging lots over a short period of time - so we'd best ignore that line and, as you say, get as close to thirty two as possible.

We assume K'van Impressed around 11PP (it's never actually said which queen clutched Heth, so it could be near the time Mirrim Impressed Path), and we know he's twelve turns at this point, so he'd be thirteen upon meeting Aramina.

If we then jump ahead to 15-17PP; during which time he became Weyrleader (interestingly, Piemur recalls the change in leadership happening after Rampesi and Idarolan sail to meet each other and the establishment of Eastern Weyr...perhaps D'ram waited a turn (which would be backed by the DLG, which states he was waiting for the older riders to die out) or so to get the Weyr running smoothly again before bringing in a new queen*). Either way, depending on when Beljeth rises, that means K'van was somewhere between sixteen and eighteen turns when he bacome Weyrleader.

Finally, jump ahead to the final year of Dolphins of Pern; 24PP, which makes him twenty five - alternatively, we could assume Readis remained undiscovered at Rubicon River with the dolphins for four turns, which would make him the correct age (eighteen) at the end of the book, and K'van twenty nine, which is pretty close.

*Heck, what if D'ram was waiting for Mardra and Merika to die, since they probably wouldn't have wanted to step down from their ranks? Certainly that would explain how he remained Weyrleader for that long...plus it'd be nice to know what actually happened to the infamous Oldtimer Weyrleaders - T'ron dies shortly before 15PP (ROP), T'kul gets killed by F'lar (WD), Mardra is last seen being comforted by D'ram (ROP), and Merika...never actually makes an appearance as far as I recall.

Last edited by Almaron; Jun 15 2012 at 05:39 PM.
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Old Jun 16 2012, 01:11 AM   #26
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Default Re: "In what book did I read about..."

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Originally Posted by Almaron View Post
We assume K'van Impressed around 11PP (it's never actually said which queen clutched Heth, so it could be near the time Mirrim Impressed Path), and we know he's twelve turns at this point, so he'd be thirteen upon meeting Aramina.

If we then jump ahead to 15-17PP; during which time he became Weyrleader (interestingly, Piemur recalls the change in leadership happening after Rampesi and Idarolan sail to meet each other and the establishment of Eastern Weyr...perhaps D'ram waited a turn (which would be backed by the DLG, which states he was waiting for the older riders to die out) or so to get the Weyr running smoothly again before bringing in a new queen*). Either way, depending on when Beljeth rises, that means K'van was somewhere between sixteen and eighteen turns when he bacome Weyrleader.

Finally, jump ahead to the final year of Dolphins of Pern; 24PP, which makes him twenty five - alternatively, we could assume Readis remained undiscovered at Rubicon River with the dolphins for four turns, which would make him the correct age (eighteen) at the end of the book, and K'van twenty nine, which is pretty close.
12+13=25, not 29

Here's my preferred K'van timeline.

Impresses age 12.

11pp - is still a weyrling because of his age alone, and is already 16

Aramina was born in 2497/98 (Hans' site), ten years before Thread started falling. She thinks she's older than K'van, and in 11PP she'll be about 21
Impression. K'van can easily be as old as 16 given this. Any older though, and he wouldn't be a weyrling any more.

15-17pp - 4-6 years later - he becomes Weyrleader at age 20-22, a far more palatable idea to the Weyr than a lad of 16-18.

24pp - K'van is 29. Close enough to F'lar's stated age of 32
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Old Jun 16 2012, 04:11 AM   #27
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12+13=25, not 29
You misread what I wrote; I meant if another four turns passed during DOP while Readis was hiding at Rubicon River, K'van would be twenty nine.

Either way, that theory of mine was wrong; Blue Rider 16 recently told me there's a line in SOP (which I haven't analysed or written a synopsis for yet) which states the hurricane (which Readis flees in the aftermath of) took place in 29PP, which would mean eight years passed while he was a student at Landing - the line about the sizes of the classes growing in just three turns might just be there to show how fast they grow, rather than what date it is.

Either way, this would make K'van thirty two if he Impressed in 9PP - if it was late 9PP, then he'd just be out of the weyrling barracks by 11PP, which would make him seem young by 12PP!
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Old Jun 16 2012, 04:23 AM   #28
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Default Re: "In what book did I read about..."

While browsing through some archived material I found reference to a page Hans put up; an older edition of TGWHD had a timeline at the beginning;

Quote:
Fax takes Ruatha 2395
Dowell leaves hold 2396
Aramina born Tillek 2401
Fax dies, Lessa to Benden 2405
Dowell hears news 2406
Works 3 Turns at Keroon 2408
F’lar Weyrleader 2408
Begin 9th Pass 2408
Aramina hears dragons 2409
Dowell working in Keroon for 2 more Turns 2411
K’van Impresses Heth 2412
Dragonquest events begin
Dowell moves to Igen 2413
Mirrim Impresses Path 2414
Jaxom Impresses Ruth 1415
Present time for Aramina 2415
Accident to wagon 2416
Obviously, most of this is wrong (either an inconsistency or a retcon; plus it still uses the "2408" timeline, before it was decided that the Long Intervals had been 450 turns instead of 400; something still mistakenly listed as late as ATWOP); F’lar becomes Weyrleader a year later than in DF, DQ seems to begin in between 5-6PP, although Jaxom still Impresses Ruth in 8PP, Mirrim is said to have Impressed Path in 7PP, and TGWHD is dated at 10PP.

The good thing is that this lists K’van’s Impression of Heth in 5PP; which shows that even five years of age is enough for a dragon to be considered a weyrling, so that proves your argument (although if we move this ahead with TGWHD to line it up with ROP, this makes K’van thirty-four by the end of DOP…so which do we go with?).
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Old Jun 16 2012, 06:19 AM   #29
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Default Re: "In what book did I read about..."

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Originally Posted by Almaron View Post

The good thing is that this lists K’van’s Impression of Heth in 5PP; which shows that even five years of age is enough for a dragon to be considered a weyrling, so that proves your argument (although if we move this ahead with TGWHD to line it up with ROP, this makes K’van thirty-four by the end of DOP…so which do we go with?).
Weyrlinghood can be as brief as eighteen months, or as long as three turns. I don't think it can be stretched far beyond that unless the rider's age is taken into account, and we have a canon limit of 16 turns there.

I'd suggest lining TGWHD as closely as you can with ROP, and if K'van can be 15 when he meets Aramina, that'd be the best solution. He doesn't need to be 32, like F'lar thinks he is, at the end of ROP - F'lar could be wrong, or K'van could have done some extra timing in an as-yet unwritten story...
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