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Old Mar 15 2008, 03:58 PM   #81
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Default Re: Before humans reached Pern

I think it does fall more lightly in the South. I think it was in TWD or maybe Dolphins that it was mentioned that the falls were lighter there and, with the added assistance of the grubs, the dragons didn't have to work nearly as hard to keep it livable.
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Old Jul 1 2009, 01:40 AM   #82
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I know this is an old thread but I wanted to add this. Because the Red Star was an "intruder" into the Pern system, it would have been out of balance with all the origional planets in the system, a balance that would have taken million of years to form. As planets move in different speeds around the home star, and being of different mass, they would have less/more gravity pull on an eliptic object, according to spacial location at the time of interaction. This could easily cause long intervals (pre colonist) which would help stabilize mutations and expand the adapted life forms. Then when a new fall started, nature resumes her (or his ) evolutionary makeovers. This would explain why the only large animals found where sea creatures mention by the first dolphins and the smaller were fliers or insects.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
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Old Jul 2 2009, 11:11 AM   #83
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IIRC the marine life native to Pern would swarm to eat thread. Dolphins sampled it but were not impressed---sort of a tofu I guess lol---
I do think that the long intervals were a result of the "zebedees" that infected the Oort Cloud although that whole line confused me..AIVAS stated that some thread related organisms were probably intelligent and postulated an entire ecosystem in the Oort cloud (huh?) I will have to hunt down the exact quote (ATWOP) later
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Old Jul 2 2009, 11:28 AM   #84
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Personally I've long been a proponent that Thread is a naturally occuring organism (despite the fact that it seems to make no sense to have a carbon-loving lifeform evolving in such an inhospitable place with no natural medium to get to the warmth and the carbon - the Red Star and it's orbit beinga bit of a fluke really), and the concept of the Long Intervals makes fine sense when you think of celestial mechanics. Perhaps there were other Long Intervals in the history of the two planets, and it was only, in fact, the two latest ones that AIVAS had interfered with.
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Old Jul 2 2009, 05:10 PM   #85
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Don't forget Jaxom took to teams back in TIME to shift the planet. I know they went back several centries, possible thoudsands or turns back. Maybe before peoople arrived. I do not rember & do not have to biik to look at right now.
As there were only two engines sent back in time, and there are two long intervals in the records of human habitation on Pern, it stands to reason that they didn't go back in time to plant the engines further than human's arrival on the planet.

I would imagine plants would evolve ways of surviving Thread, much like the firelizards evolved extensive life spans to counteract Thread. Maybe seeds would have a Thred-impervious shell, or float the waterways where Thread can't do much damage. Maybe plants in higher altitudes or in rock crevices would disperse seeds and replant the more fertile areas. Wherries would be able to keep undigested seeds in their digestive tract and release them after a Threadfall in their feces. I do believe that Thread can only go so far before gorging itself to death, but I may be mistaken. Either way, I'm sure plant life would survive. Plants grow quickly, especially without man and large herbivores to cut down thick swaths of it.
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Old Jul 2 2009, 05:20 PM   #86
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Nope, the trips back in time Jaxom led were, from the top of my head 800 and 1700 Trns back, so well after colonization.
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Old Jul 2 2009, 06:00 PM   #87
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And AIVAS chose those particular times mainly because it was already evident that this had happened. I think that it was the one part of the master plan that AIVAS had trouble processing logically.

As Ruth put it to Jaxom (although about something different): "It has been done, it will be done." Or something like that ..... LOL Sorry.
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Old Jul 2 2009, 06:37 PM   #88
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I found the quotes in question in ATWOP pages 362-366 in my copy. Jaxom and Ruth alone on Yokahama when AIVAS explains the plan in more detail. Jaxom goes forward 50 years to show that the Red Star orbit changed....
page 362 re: the Plan.
Quote:
Three engines must be exploded to push the Red Star out of an orbit hazardous to Pern. Two of those explosions have already taken place
Review of all records submitted to AIVAS
Quote:
Two small entries illuminate an anomaly. Based on the position of the Red Star when mankind first landed on Pern,that planet is not now in the orbit it should be tracking....it has suffered a perturbation of 9.3 degrees. Therefore something has already altered its path. (Records from Ista and Keroon in 4th and 8th passes) Bright flashes were observed when the Red Star was at apogee in reference to Pern. ...Those 2 craters?
One explosion was 1800 Turns in the past and the other 600 turns....(one question I have is how this next is possible)
Quote:
"The distance in terms of travel between will not be appreciably longer than what they would expect,they will not know they have been transported back in time
Is this a case of suspense for DragonFlight to make it seem that much harder for Lessa and Ramoth than for Jaxom and a Weyr? Lessa not used to the sensory deprivation and lack of oxygen but ??
Jaxom demanded an explanation of the "zebedee things"
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It is extrapolated by the closer examination of the Thread ovoids that there is life, not as you know it, and not even as we see it brought here by the Red Star,but a whole ecology of lifeforms throughout the Oort Cloud. Some of them are probably quite intelligentjudging by the complexity of their nervous systems,but when they arrive here ,they have lost most of their liquid helium [becoming] "rude mechanicals" . . .
That is why there were Long Intervals : The disimproved zebedees that you will establish--have established long ago--... will infect the Cloud...
Seems those who write fan fiction could do a story re: the life /ecosystem in the Oort Cloud...How intelligent is that life? It is mentioned that the Red Star will now rain Thread on the 5th planet (which apparently is lifeless according to AIVAS...how accurate is that statement...(is because Anne said so but...)_
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Old Jul 6 2009, 05:11 PM   #89
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Perhaps I was unclear, I meant since the explosions on the record accounted for the two engines taken back, it meant they didn't take the engines further BACKWARDS than human habitation. Although it seems to be a moot and belated point.
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Old Jul 6 2009, 09:09 PM   #90
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Emeralrose, I have to agree with you on the "Lessa" trip. As an average person can hold their breath for about 60 secs, you wouldn't think she would suffer from oxygen depradation. Though I don't remember if any big breaths were taken (as Canth told F'nor to do). I chalk it up with one of those little oop's in the story. My biggest pick for a "Oops" award has to be when Kylara say's her dragonette "ate" thread when the entire story is based around dragon-like animals that developed fire/teleportation to keep away from it. But I love the story anyhow.
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Old Jul 6 2009, 11:38 PM   #91
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I seem to remember reading in one of the books ( Rescue Run , maybe?) that several large , empty, "shells" were found by someone( again, I think the rescue ship as it lands at what used to be Landing, and the captain wondered what the resulting life form may be). The colonists didn't know the full life-cycle of the threads, though they SPECULATED that most of the threads gorged then burned out and died, though a few entered a new phase (someone said maybe tunnel snakes or wherries, but was dismissed as they had a common ancestor with the fire lizards). That would explain why they found "circles" of denuded vegetation, the threads gorged, then 99% died as nonviable and the other 1% burrowed down and entered it's metamorphosis stage. Where it went from there is up in the air, but it also explains the husks found and the fact that there was still vegetation. We also have the fire lizards themselves to factor in. Yeah, they're not the dragons, and not as large or smart, and most certainly not as reliable in the search and destroy or burn in mid-air aspects, but the fact that they remain could mean they are possibly at least partially responsible for the protection and continuation of land-based life.

Of course, if they WERE part of a softening measure by some unseen antagonist, the antagonist wouldn't WANT everything destroyed, so it makes sense that most would die off. Shoot, maybe the antagonist is long gone, and the spores are a long-forgotten weapon, just sitting out there, and waiting, as with buried land mines on Earth. I mean, there are literally thousands still buried and causing death and injury every year. Or maybe the spores are literally THE antagonist, and they were out in the Oort Cloud so long that they have started to degrade on a cellular level. Maybe they are the survivors of some cataclism to their own planet( planetary collision, possibly, that causes the Oort Cloud?).

At any rate, unless Anne (and not her son, hopefully - no slight intended, but she is a much better writer) decides to finally give some closure on this subject, we will never know for certain.
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Old Jul 9 2009, 12:26 AM   #92
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I know its probably just an Anne-consistantcy, but I like to think of the whole "ate Thread" thing as Kylara losing her temper and mis-speaking. "Oh! Oh! So mad! Say something outrageous the lizard does to get attention and a reaction." Common sense was never her strong suit, and she isn't the most eloquent speaker unless she's had a lot of practice, such as a care instructions for firelizards.

Now that I think of it, how do the fire lizards breathe fire? Do any of the books have them chewing firestone? How could they get access to it, if Pernese had to have miners get the phosperous rock? If the dragons were bred from them, wouldn't they be able to generate the gases, or heat, or whatever in their second stomaches to produce flame as their forebears? Was the need for rock added in to keep them from being used more easily as a weapon outside of Theadfall; allowing the Weyrleaders to control the means of flame production somewhat? Never thought of it until now. The lizards always seemed to breathe flame rather sponteneously.
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Old Jul 9 2009, 02:14 AM   #93
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Felines are not indigenous to Pern, They were brought with the original settlers in ova and were used by Ted Tubberman in his fatal efforts to breed a defense against thread.
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Old Jul 9 2009, 03:52 AM   #94
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Felines are not indigenous to Pern, They were brought with the original settlers in ova and were used by Ted Tubberman in his fatal efforts to breed a defense against thread.
That's not at issue. The question I think you're responding to (hard to tell without a quote) is how the felines survived all those Passes on the Southern Continent between the time the colonists abandoned it, and their rediscovery at various points in the timeline (separately in DE/RSR, Moreta, and the 9th pass books). If 99% (say) of the original indigenous non-aquatic species on Pern got wiped out when Thread first started falling, with the exception of the Firelizards, Tunnelsnakes and Wherries, how did the Felines manage to tough it out?

I already gave my answer here, but I'll add to it now. The initial population of felines had shelter (in the form of the Tubberman residence), an immediate food supply for their natural prey (the grubbed grass on the Tubberman estate), and further protection in the form of the wild firelizards' habit of fighting Fall around populated areas. I'd worry a lot more about the imported herdbeasts that managed to make it to the 9th Pass quite happily - they don't have any natural propensity towards living in caves - but so long as they can survive, the felines really have it quite easy.
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Old Jul 9 2009, 03:58 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by DragonDance View Post
Now that I think of it, how do the fire lizards breathe fire? Do any of the books have them chewing firestone?
Yes.

From Dragonsdawn:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne McCaffrey
"Then you do believe that the eighteen hatchlings will all become viable adults?" Paul asked Wind Blossom.
She inclined her head. "We must await their maturity with patience."
"But they will be able to produce flame from phosphine-bearing rocks and go between as the dragonets do?" Paul asked her.
...and...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne McCaffrey
First, they would try to chew firestone and make flame. They knew where the fire-lizards got the phosphine-bearing rock; Sean had even watched the browns and Sorka's Duke selecting the pieces to chew and the careful way they concentrated while they chewed. The fire-lizards had learned to produce flame on demand, so Sean felt easy about teaching the dragons that.
Quote:
How could they get access to it, if Pernese had to have miners get the phosperous rock?

The firelizards chew much smaller chunks, and can get by with much smaller amounts - they don't fight a whole fall, just enough to protect their immediate environment.

Also from Dragonsdawn:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne McCaffrey
"There's phosphine-bearing rock all along the coast. We've all watched the fire-lizards chew rock. That's the easiest part of this whole thing," Sean replied dismissively.
Of course, there's a big difference between a firelizard finding a chunk or two as required, and a Weyr having a reliable and consistent supply for 300+ dragons...
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Old Jul 14 2009, 08:39 PM   #96
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Fire lizards don't have fur or hair, which {cross threading} brings us back to the question of where dragons and fire lizards do their business since AFAIK the only other way would be for the seeds to pass through their digestive systems
fire lizards, can go between as soon as their body and wings are dry. Where their dung is left.

Weyrling dragons pairs when they are able to go between. Ones who are hurt or young dragons do it ground. They could leave in a specal place like the leaving of firestone ash. In SoP: The dragon (and fire lizards if they can be trained) to leave it mixed with firestone ash, once dried its smell keeps the southern cats from hold, hall, wyer, and/or weyrholds.
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Old Jul 18 2009, 10:27 PM   #97
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IIRC specific mention was made in the books of the use of dragon dung. I do not similarly recall any mention in the books of eliminating between. Is there any reference in the books to such an act (citation please)?

I also seem to recall that the entire issue arose from an off-hand quip by the author in an interview and should not have been taken seriously.
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Old Jul 19 2009, 03:40 AM   #98
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Only in the DLG directly, IIRC. I'm not sure if it was inferred indirectly in the novels at any point.

Last edited by Kath; Jul 19 2009 at 04:11 AM.
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Old Jul 19 2009, 08:24 PM   #99
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Only in the DLG directly, IIRC. I'm not sure if it was inferred indirectly in the novels at any point.
Thanks Kath! that was were the information came from, and outside of SoP and after the Fireball Flood, at Honshu Weyrhold.

As for ash one time I recall reading it is WD for Jaxom and Ruth who could digest the firestone, forgot to bring up the ash, from his first firestone practice.

In DD the queens dragons could not digest the firestone all they brought up was a "steam mound of wet sand" (Ash) Sean who had the dragon program memerized didn't know why the male could flame andd the femails could not. Sorka ask him if there wasn't something in the program that the gold were unable to flame, for a reason.

Also here is a twig of a related idea, how long would greens were render from making eggs, by chewing firestone, for the steday usw of firestone during the Pass translated to an Interval or for Ater.

For in DE/RSR, Benden Weyrleader told Lord Paulin that the Weyr hadn't had any firestone practice in a while so there wasn't any flame in any of the dragons during the problems with border crossing into his Weyr-bound protection areas.
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Old Jul 19 2009, 08:48 PM   #100
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It is not the chewing of firestone that keeps the golds from flaming it is how they were designed. The greens were never meant to lay eggs. They were designed so that they could flame, not lay eggs. It has nothing to do with firestone.
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Old Jul 19 2009, 10:57 PM   #101
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Many of us assume that greens were made sterile regardless of firestone, but it is possible that firestone is the cause of green sterility. It's never clarified one way or the other in the book, all we know is that the later-Pass characters think that it's caused by chewing firestone.
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Old Jul 20 2009, 01:43 PM   #102
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I thought that gold & green fire lizards also chewed firestone and they're NOT sterile (or is that another Anneconsistency?)
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Old Jul 20 2009, 01:54 PM   #103
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Kitti Ping mucked about with their DNA to produce the dragons. She chose to make the golds incapable of chewing firestone on purpose, and chose to render greens sterile as well.

So we can't compare dragons to firelizards in order to figure out why greens are sterile.
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Old Jul 27 2009, 12:42 AM   #104
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Default Re: Before humans reached Pern

[QUOTE=Gidget2;78700]LOL Hardly Occam's razor, is it? In your theory you need 2 space-faring cultures and presumably at least a 3rd (otherwise why need a defence or attack mechanism at all?). Evolution may seem capricious, but it is a lot more workable than the Testing Ground Theory.
<rest clipped>
QUOTE]

I didn't mean 2 different (and competitive) species of alien engineers --- more like a competition between 2 universities on one planet testing the capabilities of their science. Though as you say, they'd have to be considering the possibility of attack by another species. And leaving the Red Star orbiting would have been really irresponsible, unless they wanted to see if the planet could recover from the 'attack'.

Teleportation would obviously be a useful capability for avoiding many vectors of death. A digestive system that uses a special variety of rock for burning things seems a less likely characteristic to evolve naturally. And both capabilities present in one species, with no other species on the planet evolving either one?

Then again, these characteristics would be hard to engineer, too, I guess.

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Old Jul 30 2009, 10:14 PM   #105
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Then, theoretically speaking, if Kitti Ping had stuck to the "rules" of the Eridani genetic training she recieved, she never would have engineered dragons (and Canth wouldn't be)

However, desperate times call for desperate measures- the woman had Thread falling on her planet (Good Lord!)

Now the species that shouldn't be there evolves naturally, thoough, just like everything else, and becomes better suited for both its purpose (Threadfighting, in this case) and in order to fit into an ecosystem it didn't originally evolve with.

Or that just my personal $2

Does anyone know if there are any 3-toed fire-lizards left during the Present (9th) Pass? In DD, it says that the fire-lizards "originally" had 3 toes, but Ping developed "new" ones with 5 toes, and this trait also carried on to the dragons.
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Old Jul 31 2009, 05:09 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weyrlady View Post
Then, theoretically speaking, if Kitti Ping had stuck to the "rules" of the Eridani genetic training she received, she never would have engineered dragons (and Canth wouldn't be)
<sinp> She did let Bay in DD use the Eridani compound Mentasynth, which work well with humans and dolphins. Also changed the coding to change the three claw hand into a five finger hand. Also changed so the livestock would be able to turn the boron into something later on the dragons could get what they needed.
However, desperate times call for desperate measures- the woman had Thread falling on her planet (Good Lord!) or <snip> (Jays)

Now the species that shouldn't be there evolves naturally, thoough, just like everything else, and becomes better suited for both its purpose (Threadfighting, in this case) and in order to fit into an ecosystem it didn't originally evolve with.

Or that just my personal $2

Does anyone know if there are any 3-toed fire-lizards left during the Present (9th) Pass? In DD, it says that the fire-lizards "originally" had 3 toes, but Ping developed "new" ones with 5 toes, and this trait also carried on to the dragons.
DE/RSR they didn't find too many "fire lizards" only two nests in 50 years in the North and nothing in the South, so by the beginning of the Second Pass no-one had them.
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Old Aug 2 2009, 01:51 AM   #107
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Weyrlady,
It's not mentioned in the origional three books, but as it was menetioned in DD and Kitt Ping didn't mess with ordinary fire lizards, we would have to assume that they still have three toes. Have to wonder though, how large of a persentage of the "current" population are desendants of the "enhanced" fire lizards. And of course, how could they tell? Unless someone had 2+ lizards that were from each group.
Just a thought.
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Old Aug 2 2009, 04:15 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Old Hippie View Post
Weyrlady,
It's not mentioned in the origional three books, but as it was menetioned in DD and Kitt Ping didn't mess with ordinary fire lizards, we would have to assume that they still have three toes. Have to wonder though, how large of a percentage of the "current" population are descendants of the "enhanced" fire lizards. And of course, how could they tell? Unless someone had 2+ lizards that were from each group.
Just a thought.
Also its not told till you get in DD/CoP that most of the nest are found in the South for that is were they would go to lay their eggs.

If I recall right CoP:PERNC that they find them on the Big Island and just egg shells down south.

Also didn't they new ones grew bigger and had more intelligence? DD/CoP/DLGP
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Old Aug 3 2009, 02:28 AM   #109
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Ginny, that's what I meant about them being "enhanced", though I don't believe that that made them bigger, just better able to form a better comunicative relationship with the human partners.
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Old Aug 3 2009, 09:04 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Old Hippie View Post
Ginny, that's what I meant about them being "enhanced", though I don't believe that that made them bigger, just better able to form a better comunicative relationship with the human partners.
Don't the enhanced ones also have extra claws on the fore-paws? Just checked DLG (p. 30) --- they have 4 fingers and a thumb instead of 2 claws forming a pincer.

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Old Aug 5 2009, 01:01 AM   #111
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In DD, the statment was made that Kitt Ping changed the fire lizards front toe arrangment on the bio-engineered embrios because she thought it would be a better arrangment for catching/eating. I assume that she had wherries and cattle in mind due to the expected size the dragons would become. She herself didn't mess with fire lizard eggs herself, but she gave Poll and Bay permission to use the menthasis (sorry on the spelling) on their Gold/Bronze pairing eggs to enhance their mental abilities to try to increase the communication aspect of the next generation of fire lizards. This was also mentioned when Sorka was talking to Sean about the fire lizards "strange" behavior when the first fall on the settlement started.
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Old Aug 5 2009, 03:32 AM   #112
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Somebody catch Grall, please, and count her toes! Tickle her while you're at it- she likes that.

Having the 5 toes/fingers/talons/digits on the fore-paws is actually what I meant. I kind of agree with Kitti that the 5-finger arrangement is much more functional- it has even been argued that our 5-fingered hands made the difference for humans currently being at the top of the food chain, at least on this planet.

What I actually have in mind is a fire lizard that's also an assistance animal. I imagine him to work something like the capuchin monkey helpers do here on Earth- in which they use their "hands" to help someone with manual dexterity tasks. So can this fire lizard hold a spoon, tie an overhand knot, maybe even braid hair?

As for the "enhanced" lizards being both physically bigger and more communicative/ intelligent, I don't have my copy of the DLG right now, but somehow that's always the idea that I got. Usually due to naturAl evolution of any species, the next or further generations are physically bigger. Hence Canth being massively bigger than the 8th Pass bronzes ('course Canth's my hero, so in my eyes he's larger than everyone).

P.S. Canth's also able to think circles around any 8th Pass bronze! GO CANTH!!

Last edited by Weyrlady; Aug 5 2009 at 03:39 AM. Reason: more thoughts
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Old Aug 6 2009, 03:55 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Hippie View Post
In DD, the statment was made that Kitt Ping changed the fire lizards front toe arrangment on the bio-engineered embrios because she thought it would be a better arrangment for catching/eating. I assume that she had wherries and cattle in mind due to the expected size the dragons would become. She herself didn't mess with fire lizard eggs herself, but she gave Poll and Bay permission to use the menthasis (sorry on the spelling) <snp> Mentasynth on their Gold/Bronze pairing eggs to enhance their mental abilities to try to increase the communication aspect of the next generation of fire lizards. This was also mentioned when Sorka was talking to Sean about the fire lizards "strange" behavior when the first fall on the settlement started.
So was Pol and Bay at Landing after getting the call about Fancy Zi family's fire lizard. Menta I think it was shorten too.
For anyone living in Landing and the animals based there both Menta and orginal were aiding in the Threadfall there and across the first fall area, and in later falls too.
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Old Aug 9 2009, 09:32 PM   #114
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I'm under the impression that firelizard (and dragon) claws aren't as flexible as human fingers, though. I think they would be very useable for catching prey, but I don't really think of them as having great manual dexterity. It would be difficult to tie knots and hold relatively small items when there are long claws getting in the way. And the art that I've seen has the "fingers" shaped in a curved, claw-like way, so they probably can't stretch their claws flat as easily as humans can.
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Old Aug 12 2009, 12:13 AM   #115
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In Red Star Rising / Dragonseye, when just hatched Morath attacked the irate father of her rider, they mentioned about unsheathed claws raking his leather tunic. I would imagine Anne had a retractable claw arrangement in mind for the dragons. Since it's said she's a loves cats, it makes perfect sense.
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Old Aug 12 2009, 12:35 AM   #116
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Well that would make things very interesting. I always imagined the claws as being in place of fingernails, on hands that are relatively similar to our own. If the claws are retractible, the joints in the "fingers" would be different, and dragons would have a much reduced manual dexterity because there would be a kind of rotation to bring the claws out. Cat's paws aren't very good for gripping because the front joint on each digit doesn't really grip, but is used to extend the claws. The claws can be used to grip a surface, but they don't do much good for objects. And that would make the scenes in the story of a dragon picking up a person much more difficult and likely to end in injury.

Unless they have Wolverine's kind of retractable claws. :P

I'm still inclined to think that they have more human-like digits because it fits better with picking up people. The dragon would have a hard time gingerly picking up people, and may cause some bruising, but it would still be easier than with cat-like claws.
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Old Aug 12 2009, 02:39 AM   #117
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Somehow I always imagined both dragons and fire-lizards to have longer "fingers", like a combo of a human hand, an eagle's talons, and a raccoon's forepaw, on their front paws. And thedn a longer "foot" on the back legs.

Though the retractable claws do make sense. I have this "kind of concept" of an assistance animal/fire-lizard (he's brown, and his name is Zak), and I was thinking about his claws. Would he have to wear "claw caps" to avoid accidently scratching things? I'd imagine an adult fire-lizard would learn to control his claws, much like adult cats and dogs do, wouldn't you say? If Zak could retract his claws, I wouldn't have to worry about it.

There's at least 1 scene in DF where Mnementh catches and gently holds Lessa in his 'talons' so F'lar can talk to her.
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Old Aug 12 2009, 03:31 AM   #118
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Corinth, could you maybe elaborate on what scenes you are thnking of when talking about dragons "picking up people"?

Weyrlady, I seem to remember several references to human arms being "raked" when a (young) fire lizard was fed.
In the scene at Ruatha you mention Mnementh just put his paws/claws around Lessa to prevent her from fleeing. But for that task it won't matter much whether his talons were retractible or not, wouldn't it?
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Old Aug 12 2009, 02:25 PM   #119
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One of the instances of a dragon picking a person up is right before Mnementh cages in Lessa. The line is "He saw Mnementh spiraling down into the court, his front paws clasping something." He was carrying Lessa, though admittedly the line is vague enough that my impression of human-like hands isn't necessarily supported, as he could have been holding her sandwiched between his paws.
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Old Aug 12 2009, 02:26 PM   #120
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Corinth, could you maybe elaborate on what scenes you are thnking of when talking about dragons "picking up people"?

Weyrlady, I seem to remember several references to human arms being "raked" when a (young) fire lizard was fed.
In the scene at Ruatha you mention Mnementh just put his paws/claws around Lessa to prevent her from fleeing. But for that task it won't matter much whether his talons were retractible or not, wouldn't it?
Just before the "cage" image, Mnementh 'informed F'lar that he had seen her climbing from one of the high windows and had simply plucked her from the ledge, knowing the dragonman sought her.'

There was also the time the Lords Holder were attacking the Weyr, and 'a wing of blues appeared, carrying Meron's would-be mountaineers'. It's unclear from the text whether the blues or their riders grabbed the climbers (or even whether the riders were on board, though I assume they would be).

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