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Old Jul 2 2006, 05:16 PM   #1
Maduk
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Default Dragon's Business

We all know how the dragons, when old enough, do their "business" between. Now, the problem is, matter cannot be created nor destroyed, as the law says. However, I've thought a bit about this, and came to a conclusion.

THREAD!! That's right, thread is not created, but it enters Pern's atmosphere, is charred by the riders and dragons, then results in new ash matter on Pern. Does this help balance the continuos loss of matter to between. However, there is a problem.

Intervals. During the 200 years that thread does not fall, there could be a problem. Does enough thread fall during passes that it carries over? Also, would there be a slow but constant drop in matter? Thoughts?
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Old Jul 2 2006, 07:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Dragon's Business

As far as Anne's Pern goes, the fundamental laws of physics are the last thing we need to worry about...

My personal theory is that the teleportation mechanism itself holds the answer. It takes a huge amount of energy to do things to space-time that give the effects of going between. Dragon/flit poo is Pernese matter, and it adds to the energy balance of between. And because dragons/flits share the same origins, they can use the natural link to access between's innate energies, and use it to hop between space/time. Ta da! A little bit of handwaving, and your problem's solved.
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Old Jul 2 2006, 07:44 PM   #3
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Default Re: Dragon's Business

I still don't think the plopping between was meant to be taken seriously

A bit besides the point, but matter actually CAN be created, with the collision of particle beams at enormous speeds, the resulting extreme energy densities can actually create matter out of nowhere. Just had to show off what I learned from reading Angels and Demons *hopes that this is actually true and I haven't made a fool of myself*
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Old Jul 2 2006, 09:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: Dragon's Business

Me, I always thought it came back as dust. Cosmic dust. Coating the whole planet...so no matter is lost, it is shunted between, whipped, stirred, pureed, then comes back as so much dirt.

This gives more people jobs, since the maids will really need to dust every day.
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Old Jul 3 2006, 06:52 AM   #5
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Where IS this thiong about Between! Is it actually in the books or what?
especially as Dragondung is used as a feline detterent in SoP!
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Old Jul 3 2006, 06:53 AM   #6
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Default Re: Dragon's Business

Ah, well there's plenty of weyrling-poo to go around. It's mentioned as a predator deterrent in _Dawn_ as well. I thought the defecation between issue was settled in one of Anne's interviews. Anyone know?
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Old Jul 3 2006, 07:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: Dragon's Business

I'm pretty sure this did come out of an interview question, Kath, though I thought the DLG indicated the same answer. The matter-loss problem extends further as it's not just dragonpoo that gets left between, but nearly every dragon that dies does it by suiciding between.

My theory is about the same is Shalyn's, with a little more thought to the mechanism. Once something is dropped in between and out of the mental control of a dragon (which would include a dead dragon), I think the bonds holding the molecules together are lost and it comes back into existance where the dragon entered between -- but not all at once, rather with a half-life as in radioactive decay. And voila, a molecular dust rains down slowly and invisibly, gets blown all around Pern by winds and eventually settles out everywhere.

That's my Cheryl science and I'm sticking to it.
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Old Jul 3 2006, 09:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Dragon's Business

Anyway, Thread was falling thousands of years before the dragons were engineered - and while dragons can consciously direct themselves between times, I rather doubt that their sh*t can.
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Old Jul 3 2006, 09:16 PM   #9
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Default Re: Dragon's Business

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl
I'm pretty sure this did come out of an interview question, Kath, though I thought the DLG indicated the same answer. The matter-loss problem extends further as it's not just dragonpoo that gets left between, but nearly every dragon that dies does it by suiciding between.

My theory is about the same is Shalyn's, with a little more thought to the mechanism. Once something is dropped in between and out of the mental control of a dragon (which would include a dead dragon), I think the bonds holding the molecules together are lost and it comes back into existance where the dragon entered between -- but not all at once, rather with a half-life as in radioactive decay. And voila, a molecular dust rains down slowly and invisibly, gets blown all around Pern by winds and eventually settles out everywhere.

That's my Cheryl science and I'm sticking to it.
OK - so my explanation was overly simplified.

But that is the only explanation that makes sense!

Either that, or matter lost between ends up at the bottom of the ocean, and is eventually brought back out via the tides. Still in particles though.
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Old Mar 4 2011, 07:53 PM   #10
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Re: Dragon's Business

Quote:
Originally Posted by edith View Post
Where IS this thiong about Between! Is it actually in the books or what?
especially as Dragondung is used as a feline detterent in SoP!
http://books.google.com/books?id=mno...0ridge&f=false
returning of the felines, location
Quote:
The holders protect their fields with dragon dung and rirestone mash, so we've spread that mixture on our perimeter. Seems to do the job." "1 understand,"
http://books.google.com/books?id=mno...20dung&f=false

I'm just thinking here, who found out about that, little bit.
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Old Mar 4 2011, 11:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Dragon's Business

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maduk View Post
We all know how the dragons, when old enough, do their "business" between. Now, the problem is, matter cannot be created nor destroyed, as the law says. However, I've thought a bit about this, and came to a conclusion.

THREAD!! That's right, thread is not created, but it enters Pern's atmosphere, is charred by the riders and dragons, then results in new ash matter on Pern. Does this help balance the continuos loss of matter to between. However, there is a problem.

Intervals. During the 200 years that thread does not fall, there could be a problem. Does enough thread fall during passes that it carries over? Also, would there be a slow but constant drop in matter? Thoughts?
I don't see the problem. WHATever Between is, the poop either stays there, or it goes SOMEwhere else in the universe. It can't be destroyed, but it doesn't have to end up on Pern.

Explain what Between is, and you may have the definitive answer.

Eriflor.
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Old Mar 6 2011, 06:48 AM   #12
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Default Re: Dragon's Business

It does need to re-enter Pern's system somewhere, since otherwise it would be an unsustainable open ecosystem. On Earth, when animals die, they are partly eaten by other creatures, whose fecal matter becomes fertilizer for more plants as does the remains of the corpse. Herdbeasts and wherries graze on Pern, are eaten by dragons who then die and poo between, and all that valuable fertilizer is lost. This is especially crucial since the dragons are genetically engineered from much smaller firelizards, who may or may not go between to die. Robinton's Zair was found lifeless when Robinton died, so he obviously didn't go between.
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Old Mar 7 2011, 10:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: Dragon's Business

Quote:
Originally Posted by granath View Post
It does need to re-enter Pern's system somewhere, since otherwise it would be an unsustainable open ecosystem. On Earth, when animals die, they are partly eaten by other creatures, whose fecal matter becomes fertilizer for more plants as does the remains of the corpse. Herdbeasts and wherries graze on Pern, are eaten by dragons who then die and poo between, and all that valuable fertilizer is lost. This is especially crucial since the dragons are genetically engineered from much smaller firelizards, who may or may not go between to die. Robinton's Zair was found lifeless when Robinton died, so he obviously didn't go between.
I thought I remembered a dragon that died from threadfall injuries that didn't go between, but other dragons took the body between to honor it.

If my recall is correct, then dragons really only go between to die, when their rider dies.

But I agree that it would be best if the matter returns to Pern somehow, otherwise, you experience a lot of loss of organic material. And meteorites and comets that crash on Pern, wouldn't be bringing much if any organic material.

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Old Mar 7 2011, 06:15 PM   #14
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Default Re: Dragon's Business

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Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff View Post
I still don't think the plopping between was meant to be taken seriously

A bit besides the point, but matter actually CAN be created, with the collision of particle beams at enormous speeds, the resulting extreme energy densities can actually create matter out of nowhere. Just had to show off what I learned from reading Angels and Demons *hopes that this is actually true and I haven't made a fool of myself*
Oh god, I hate reading my old posts. Why didn't anyone smack me upside the head for this?!
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Old Mar 7 2011, 09:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: Dragon's Business

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff View Post
Oh god, I hate reading my old posts. Why didn't anyone smack me upside the head for this?!?
you can blame, me if you like, some else that comes to mind, here.

In Dolphins of Pern, after the flooding, T'lion with Reads, using Persellan's book, and how the young holder's family tried to save a land beast, and translated into caring for the young ones. When they came back in 'three suns'.
They did mange to save the young injured calves like the one with part of her gut sticking out, In fact Persellan had a hard time asking about 'being regular', another dolphin answer 'her gut works if didn't they would have been back sooner".
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