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Old Jul 29 2008, 08:33 PM   #41
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Default Re: Grubs

I just had a thought - on the surface the threads can spread rapidly, but since they require oxygen they wouldn't be able to burrow as rapidly. Maybe they would be limited to a certain distance from where they went underground. That would explain the polka dots, perhaps? And maybe a clump of thread could spread rapidly but a single thread would try to burrow right away, so that an individual burrow might not be such a threat?
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Old Jul 29 2008, 11:15 PM   #42
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I just had a thought - on the surface the threads can spread rapidly, but since they require oxygen they wouldn't be able to burrow as rapidly. Maybe they would be limited to a certain distance from where they went underground. That would explain the polka dots, perhaps? And maybe a clump of thread could spread rapidly but a single thread would try to burrow right away, so that an individual burrow might not be such a threat?
Where does it say that Thread requires oxygen? In its ovoids it is actually contained in liquid helium, so for all we know oxygen could be toxic to it over the long term.

If think any "rapidity" of spread overground is just a matter of being able to writhe and flop about, but any such activity won't go on for very long before each tendril burrows. I suspect that cases of "rapid" spread are probably cases of dragonriders missing a cluster of clumps, more than one clump or one tendril spawning some improbably fast-spreading sucking horror. Chemical reactions only work so fast.
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Old Jul 30 2008, 06:34 PM   #43
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There is evidence in DDawn for thread just dying after a relatively short period- I think it was the one they were observing in Landing- my books are being packed I'm afraid.

Just a weird thought- surface area to volume!

Thread has to respire, whatever it uses (helium is inert- so not helium, though actually helium is a bit of a silly mistake as it isn't that cold!) and one of the important things to do with size of creature is the surface area to volume ratio. Thread has got no lungs or equivilant, so the surface area for respiration is dependant on that of the thread itself. As the size of the thread increases, the volume increases cubically while the surface area increases as the square. This means that the volume increases far faster than the surface area. This means that surface area to volume ratio decreases and so the thread will eventually too big and die from the inside out.
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Old Jul 30 2008, 08:36 PM   #44
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There is evidence in DDawn for thread just dying after a relatively short period- I think it was the one they were observing in Landing- my books are being packed I'm afraid.

Just a weird thought- surface area to volume!

Thread has to respire, whatever it uses (helium is inert- so not helium, though actually helium is a bit of a silly mistake as it isn't that cold!) and one of the important things to do with size of creature is the surface area to volume ratio. Thread has got no lungs or equivilant, so the surface area for respiration is dependant on that of the thread itself. As the size of the thread increases, the volume increases cubically while the surface area increases as the square. This means that the volume increases far faster than the surface area. This means that surface area to volume ratio decreases and so the thread will eventually too big and die from the inside out.
I like that explanation. The interior eventually bursts the exterior, exposing the interior to the elements. Puts one in mind of M. Creusot and that wafer thin mint...
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Old Jul 30 2008, 11:59 PM   #45
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Where does it say that Thread requires oxygen? In its ovoids it is actually contained in liquid helium, so for all we know oxygen could be toxic to it over the long term.
Thread drowns in water. This may be due to a concaetation of circumstances, but one of the most likely is that it doesn't gain sufficient oxygen. And aren't the ovoids the inert form? Those are designed for traveling through space. They may not breath during that period. And if the liquid helium is part of Thread it may just be part of internal chemistry, and it could still breath oxygen.
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Old Jul 31 2008, 10:45 AM   #46
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Who says it needs to breath? This is a space-borne organism, there IS no atmosphere out there. It is not merely dormant in the Oort cloud, it's clearly a living organism out there as well, especially noted in AtWoP. So if it functions in space, then it wouldn't breathe by our understanding of it, and certainly not oxygen. Besides, the Threads that fall to the ground seem like the guts of Thread, not a complete organism of its own. The ovoids going through the atmosphere and bursting open is like disemboweling it.
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Old Jul 31 2008, 12:27 PM   #47
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Default Re: Grubs

I have always been of the mind that there were different types of *Thread*, some of them having a longer life span than others. Also wouldn't the ovoids while traveling in space be dormant with the life that was inside...and if so even if they were breathers of oxygen...would they need it if they were in that domant state ?

*JUST A THOUGHT*....I have often wondered if some of the threads were breaders/dividers, capible of increasing in number [not stating this very well...too early in the morning for me]...and that those were the ones that if established in the ground would spread to lay waste to fields and crops...Esvay Valley disaster type of thing?!?
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Old Jul 31 2008, 01:41 PM   #48
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I would agree that some Threads could be breeders/dividers, the descripitons in the books seem to bear this out. I also think it is important to keep in mind when discussing Thread that it is an alien life form, and may be different than anything on Pern or Earth(at least in this form).

The Hoyle-Wickramasinghe theory, also known as the theory of panspermia, also seems to bear out that some Thread may be breeders/dividers. I could not remember whether the DRoP novels ever went beyond mentioning the theory, so I looked it up. It seems that Hoyle and Wickramasinghe believed that "seeds" of life lived already in the Universe and entered Earth through the atmosphere, being the source of life on Earth. They expanded this to say that these "seeds" were still entering Earth, and were the source of epidemics, new diseases, and the genetic novelty necessary for macroevoloution. (all info taken from Wikipedia, the free Encyclopedia, article Panspermia). This is different fromt the theory of the Oort cloud which is postulated to be rings of asteroids on the outer edges of the solar system, that are sometimes dislogded due to the gravity of passing stars and planets. (taken from Wikipedia, the free Encyclopeida, article Oort cloud).

Back to the DRoP: these theories combined, indicate Thread as the "seeds" of life, spawned in the Oort cloud, that then spirals from the Red Star to Pern, where it begins the adaptation to the planet, with any surviving through flame, water, and their own hunger, starting a their new life.
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Old Jul 31 2008, 04:06 PM   #49
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Default Re: Grubs

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I like that explanation. The interior eventually bursts the exterior, exposing the interior to the elements. Puts one in mind of M. Creusot and that wafer thin mint...
I was thinking more of the cells starving and dying due to lack of energy.

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Who says it needs to breath? This is a space-borne organism, there IS no atmosphere out there. It is not merely dormant in the Oort cloud, it's clearly a living organism out there as well, especially noted in AtWoP. So if it functions in space, then it wouldn't breathe by our understanding of it, and certainly not oxygen. Besides, the Threads that fall to the ground seem like the guts of Thread, not a complete organism of its own. The ovoids going through the atmosphere and bursting open is like disemboweling it.
I was not talking about oxygen. As anybody should know, if they've had a basic lower secondary school education, even on Earth there are quite a few organisms that don't need oxygen to respire!
For simple things like sugars, you don't need oxygen (or an oxidising agent- which is not necessarily anything to do with oxygen) to cause the reaction which breaks the bond, but for more complex molecules extra things are needed to facilitate the breaking of bonds and the release of energy (following this?).
In the ovoids, if there is an internal food source, anareobic respiration is feasible-ish.
As they fall, in whatever form you think they are, the threads are most definitely consumers, and as they can digest far more complex molecules such as fats and proteins, some sort of oxidising agent is used.
This means that a surface area to volume ratio becomes important, for, if the volume becomes too great to be "fed" by the active surface, the organism starves at a celluar level!
Hence the size limit on insects and some other invertebrates.
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Old Jul 31 2008, 09:44 PM   #50
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I said oxygen, I should have just said air, but I was assuming that since Thread drowns in water, that it does need air. I suppose the water could actually be toxic to it, but that wouldn't make sense with the way it devours all those juicy water-filled organic lifeforms...

Assuming that they have some dependence on air, they would therefore have trouble traveling too far underground, perhaps?
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Old Jul 31 2008, 10:30 PM   #51
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Perhaps. But with the initial point of impact being open to the air, as long as they didn't run into stone, they could spread out, opening holes in the ground when needed, or surface to eat, since people seem to fear being eaten by Thread overnight if they're near a burrow (even Giron, ex-dragonrider, admits that's possible), leaving a hole behind where they had surfaced. They could probably get enough air.
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Old Aug 1 2008, 05:32 AM   #52
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Default Re: Grubs

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Originally Posted by Blue Rider 16 View Post
I would agree that some Threads could be breeders/dividers, the descripitons in the books seem to bear this out. I also think it is important to keep in mind when discussing Thread that it is an alien life form, and may be different than anything on Pern or Earth(at least in this form).

The Hoyle-Wickramasinghe theory, also known as the theory of panspermia, also seems to bear out that some Thread may be breeders/dividers. I could not remember whether the DRoP novels ever went beyond mentioning the theory, so I looked it up. It seems that Hoyle and Wickramasinghe believed that "seeds" of life lived already in the Universe and entered Earth through the atmosphere, being the source of life on Earth. They expanded this to say that these "seeds" were still entering Earth, and were the source of epidemics, new diseases, and the genetic novelty necessary for macroevoloution. (all info taken from Wikipedia, the free Encyclopedia, article Panspermia). This is different fromt the theory of the Oort cloud which is postulated to be rings of asteroids on the outer edges of the solar system, that are sometimes dislogded due to the gravity of passing stars and planets. (taken from Wikipedia, the free Encyclopeida, article Oort cloud).

Back to the DRoP: these theories combined, indicate Thread as the "seeds" of life, spawned in the Oort cloud, that then spirals from the Red Star to Pern, where it begins the adaptation to the planet, with any surviving through flame, water, and their own hunger, starting a their new life.
The Wickramasinghes are still hammering on about this idea, you know...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/w...st/7525390.stm

[Mind you, I wouldn't give them very high odds on being right...]
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Old Aug 1 2008, 12:30 PM   #53
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Quote:
Back to the DRoP: these theories combined, indicate Thread as the "seeds" of life, spawned in the Oort cloud, that then spirals from the Red Star to Pern, where it begins the adaptation to the planet, with any surviving through flame, water, and their own hunger, starting a their new life.
I guess this is what I keep coming back to...maybe it is my misreading or exaggerating the rumors re: the first fall....I keep thinking they referred to thread evolving into another threat...reason I am interested in seeing what they find out on the other side of Pern at end of SoP....
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Old Aug 1 2008, 03:33 PM   #54
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I guess this is what I keep coming back to...maybe it is my misreading or exaggerating the rumors re: the first fall....I keep thinking they referred to thread evolving into another threat...reason I am interested in seeing what they find out on the other side of Pern at end of SoP....
Yes, I'd always wondered how the Western Continent got so barren. They didn't have grubs, but the Southern Continent managed to recover from each Pass before the colonists got there. Then again the Western Continent may not have fire-lizards. I doubt, however, that Anne McCaffrey would write about a massive war on Pern between the people of Pern and alien descendants of Thread.

On similar note, the Western Continent has been stated as having nothing but "sand and snakes". In Dragonsdawn there was a theory that was discounted at the time that one of the predators of Pern came from Thread. Now I know most of the snakes were believed to have a common ancestor with the fire-lizards. But there may be a new variety of snake that is a descendant of Thread. There wouldn't need to be a war that way, and it wouldn't detract too much from Pern. Snakes aren't really anything to worry about. All you need to do is avoid them, and keep vigilant.
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Old Aug 1 2008, 11:16 PM   #55
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I think what may be causing some confusion is the discussion by the various people to study Thread regarding a possible second stage in its life cycle. IIRC, this was speculation on their part and they never made a firm determination one way or the other.

Really, what we know about Thread is just about nil. We don't know quite a bit.

Where did it originate?
What is its natural habit? The Oort Cloud? What is its life/life cycle like in that environment?
Is the ovoid part of the Thread life-cycle, part of Thread, or just an aggregate of material that collected around Thread?
What is the significance of the ovoids being on the surface of the Red Star? Did they fall there or are they thrown up from there by out-gassing or impacts?
What are its bodily processes? Does it breathe? If so, what does it breathe? Why does it consume organic matter? It is eating, or absorbing that matter inadvertently and to its detriment? Why does it burn out? Why does it drown? Why does it burn? Is it heat, or a chemical burn? If heat is it from the reentry, or its "body-temperature"?
How long has Thread been bombarding Pern?

--

Regarding the Western Continent(s), we know even less than Thread. I believe the place is mentioned all of once and the observer describes it as barren, with sand and snakes. This is almost certainly hyperbolic overstatement of the situation. If there are snakes, they must prey on something, and somewhere in that food chain, there are probably herbivores that consume plants; ergo there must be some variety of plant life. But to someone who may have come from a lushly forested Lemos, Ista or Nerat, a bunch of scrub-brush might fit their description of "barren."

Do keep in mind that prior to F'nor and Lessa's journey, everyone thought that the Southern Continent was a Thread-wasted barren as well.
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Old Aug 2 2008, 02:46 AM   #56
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I'm sure it can get enough air to spread as it burrows underground - I just think it would be hampered by the limited supply, and would spread more slowly than on the surface.
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Old Aug 2 2008, 04:05 PM   #57
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I was thinking more of the cells starving and dying due to lack of energy.



I was not talking about oxygen. As anybody should know, if they've had a basic lower secondary school education, even on Earth there are quite a few organisms that don't need oxygen to respire!
For simple things like sugars, you don't need oxygen (or an oxidising agent- which is not necessarily anything to do with oxygen) to cause the reaction which breaks the bond, but for more complex molecules extra things are needed to facilitate the breaking of bonds and the release of energy (following this?).
In the ovoids, if there is an internal food source, anareobic respiration is feasible-ish.
As they fall, in whatever form you think they are, the threads are most definitely consumers, and as they can digest far more complex molecules such as fats and proteins, some sort of oxidising agent is used.
This means that a surface area to volume ratio becomes important, for, if the volume becomes too great to be "fed" by the active surface, the organism starves at a celluar level!
Hence the size limit on insects and some other invertebrates.
Actually I was replying to Blue-rider's post, not yours, since he mentioned oxygen.

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Where did it originate?
What is its natural habit? The Oort Cloud? What is its life/life cycle like in that environment?
It seems quite clear that the Oort cloud is its natural habitat. Its life cycle is complete mystery, but from AtWoP it seems that it's not merely dormant in the Oort cloud, because of the little parasites and springing things that may have been part of its reproduction.

Quote:
Is the ovoid part of the Thread life-cycle, part of Thread, or just an aggregate of material that collected around Thread?
It's definitely not part of its life-cycle, since the Threads are coiled up inside. The shell does not morph into threads as the DLG illustrates, it simply disintegrates in the atmosphere. The outer-most rocky/icy layer may just be collected debris, but the overall shell is seems like the "body" of the Thread organism.

Quote:
What is the significance of the ovoids being on the surface of the Red Star? Did they fall there or are they thrown up from there by out-gassing or impacts?
In AtWoP it makes it very clear that Thread does not come from the Red Star in any form. The planet's gravity simply drew some of the ovoids to its surface after passing through the Oort cloud.
Quote:
What are its bodily processes? Does it breathe? If so, what does it breathe? Why does it consume organic matter? It is eating, or absorbing that matter inadvertently and to its detriment? Why does it burn out? Why does it drown? Why does it burn? Is it heat, or a chemical burn? If heat is it from the reentry, or its "body-temperature"?
I couldn't even hazard a guess to most of that, but I doubt that its heat is due to its re-entry. With how vulnerable Thread is to dragon-flame, if it's that hot from re-entry, it would just burst into flames right in the atmosphere. I'm betting that the shell absorbs most of the heat and leaves the Threads mostly unharmed. Perhaps some of the Threads do burn up after the shell splits open, and the inner-most ones survive.

I find it improbable that Thread is actually eating anything. Since its landing on Pern is completely accidental, it's unlikely that it had evolved to purposefully eat Pern's organic matter. I'd bet that it's just a chemical reaction and that it dies from "absorbing" itself to death.

The drowning is very puzzling, though, since it could not have breathed in the Oort cloud, and as mentioned before, its rendezvous with Pern is accidental, so that can't be part of its cycle to breath Pern's air.
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Old Aug 3 2008, 11:46 PM   #58
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I still think the shell is equivalent to the "seed" of the Hoyle-Wickramasinghe theory. So the shell isn't meant to break until it enters a planetary atmosphere. Or at least that's my interpretation.
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Old Aug 4 2008, 11:03 AM   #59
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I still think the shell is equivalent to the "seed" of the Hoyle-Wickramasinghe theory. So the shell isn't meant to break until it enters a planetary atmosphere. Or at least that's my interpretation.
But if its entry to Pern is accidental, how can it be meant to break apart in that manner? The only other explanation is if it were engineered and the life-form planted in the Oort cloud, when it was noted by the engineers that the Red Star would bring it to Pern.

Regardless of the speculation in D'Dawn where they ruled this idea out, by Occam's Razor, it seems far simpler that it is a space-faring organism which is coincidentally dragged by the wandering planet into Pern's system.

It also seems like a very poor, primitive, and essentially pointless life-form if all it does is fall down, gorge, and die quickly, without even propagating well to continue the species. It is made clear that Thread reproduces in space. We don't even know for sure if Thread DOES reproduce in a burrow as well, but if it does, it's obviously through desperation, it is not designed to live that way. If it were meant to fall on Pern, unless merely as a destructive weapon, it should be able to continuously reproduce, not merely eat themselves to death.

Thread must reproduce in space, otherwise the ovoid supply in the Oort cloud would eventually run out.
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Old Aug 4 2008, 03:42 PM   #60
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Perhaps it is meant to be elsewhere and arrived by accident? Perhaps it is meant for a different type of planet where it doesn't grow to death but can reproduce.
Evidence in CoP suggest that Pern wasn't always that way and relatively recently so.
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Old Aug 4 2008, 11:43 PM   #61
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Perhaps it is meant to be elsewhere and arrived by accident? Perhaps it is meant for a different type of planet where it doesn't grow to death but can reproduce.
Evidence in CoP suggest that Pern wasn't always that way and relatively recently so.
Geologically "recently" as in something like the last 50,000 years, IIRC. Large land creatures were part of the Pernese fossil record. How long does it take to make a fossil? For all we know, Thread could have been hitting Pern for millions of years. The prologue states, IIRC, "recent millenia" but like the debate elsewhere over the term "moment" that description is far from precise.

It's certainly possible it could be "meant for elsewhere" but the implication is more that its natural environment is the Oort Cloud. Why it developed there is unknown. It's habits, activities, etc... in the Oort Cloud are unknown. None were investigated or explored. The sole purpose of those studying Thread was to find a way to stop it by first disturbing the orbit of the Red Star, and then by attacking Thread biologically with a retroviral approach using the contaminated ovoids.

The interesting thing is that AIVAS directed the seeding of the Red Star with the ovoids. This implies there is some way for the ovoids to leave the Red Star if this method is supposed to seed the Oort Cloud and kill Thread over time there. Curious.

The more is revealed about Thread, the less we actually know...
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Old Nov 11 2008, 04:18 PM   #62
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I was pondering the grubs. If they eat thread then some 'anti' thread secreations are made when the grubs escreats wates. Eventually, this waste gets absorbed into the plantlike. Grubs errate the soil and provide a 'anti'- thread enzyme, or whatever. Maybe this substance makes the flora inedible or at the very least unpaletable to the Thread.
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Old Nov 13 2008, 03:45 PM   #63
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maybe even a change in the trees biochemistry to block the mycrochirozzoid (sp) interaction? Actually in either White Dragon, or Dragondrums, it was mentioned that sometimes thread would get lodged in a tree and not be consumed by grubs. which is why southern still had gound crews.

I remember from DD discussion that thread needed oxygen as part of its activity. and that while there is oxygen in water, not enough free oxygen for it to maintain activity. From ATWoP there was much discussion of the ovoids that came in from the oort cloud. Helium filled, a zero-g ecosystem inside. and the thread being one small part of the whole. at -273C likely its position in its ecosystem is widely different than the role it plays upon entering an atmosphere. Heat of reentry probably has it consuming any carbon based materials left from the pod, and also changes its chemical processes. It would require oxygen and carbon to maintain its new processes, contact absorption of carbon. flame can ignite it, flame and heat are different things, which means its probably hydrocarbon based.
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Old Nov 14 2008, 01:40 AM   #64
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Quote:
Actually in either White Dragon, or Dragondrums, it was mentioned that sometimes thread would get lodged in a tree and not be consumed by grubs. which is why southern still had gound crews.
I would like to see that quote - I don't remember that at all!
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Old Nov 14 2008, 02:02 AM   #65
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Thread will defently drawn in water.
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Old Nov 14 2008, 06:20 AM   #66
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Default Re: Grubs

Brenda, I'm with you.

I've searched both The White Dragon and Dragondrums for the word tree and can't come up with any references. Maybe you are remembering the tree trunk they made a drum out of in Dragondrums, ghost? But the core of that was eaten by insects, not Thread.
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Old Nov 14 2008, 11:22 AM   #67
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Thread could not become lodged in a tree because it would eat through it and eventually reach the ground and then get eaten by grubs. Perhaps you're thinking of the reference of Skybroom trees being very Thread resistant?
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Old Nov 17 2008, 03:52 AM   #68
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hey, I said I thought I remembered. The memory I'm trying to coax out had a dialogue while characters were on the southern continent, after the grubs were discovered. I thought Sharra was one of the people in it, which in my mind put it as one of the two. speculating though that if thread had managed to get lodged in the crown of a tree and ate its way to ground it would likely be too large by that time for the grubs to eat it as efficiently as they do when thread hit and immediately burrow. will see if I can find the reference.
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Old Nov 17 2008, 07:51 AM   #69
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Hey, we only tried to help If you can find that reference that would be great. I searched my eBooks but came up with zilch. Good luck
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Old Nov 17 2008, 09:52 AM   #70
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There are more than one reference to the fact that the leaves etc mend themselves but one reason they were slow about settling southern is shelter required and being out in threadfall difficult for those used to being indoors during same...
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Old Nov 22 2008, 12:32 AM   #71
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Quote:
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Hey, we only tried to help If you can find that reference that would be great. I searched my eBooks but came up with zilch. Good luck
figures. closest I found so far was Discussion between Jaxom Sharra and Brekke about thread fall in the south with the quote from Sharra that the southerners go out after threadfall in case the grubs missed any. Slow going since I'm stuck (happily) flipping pages. Suppose I'm gonna have to tackle renegades next. Thats the last one where I recall Anne going into detail about threadfalls, and southern continent. Of course its also the first reference to Skybroom trees, and that might have been the reference too. sigh, Unlike F'lar my memory does sometimes fail me.
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Old Nov 22 2008, 05:29 PM   #72
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I think I remember a quote like that. Think it was in Renegades of Pern during the 15-17 Turn of the Ninth Pass chapter. It mentioned that Toric was shaken out of his complacency. Going to get the book now.
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Old Nov 22 2008, 05:40 PM   #73
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Here's the exact quote, "Southern dragonriders turned out to be useful after all, despite the land's defenses--in the form of those amazing grubs--against Thread. After a storm of nasty tangles ripped through some of the dense forests, Weyrleader T'gellan increased sweepriders, and even Lord Toric, once he had seen the damage done by a series of tangles, lost his complacence and organized ground crews." pg. 278-279 American edition(Not as sure whether it's American or British, bought it in Canada, we usuallly get one or the other. Most clues seem to point to it being American.)
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Old Nov 24 2008, 01:00 PM   #74
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Something abaut Treat and water. Treat die in water reservoir but it is killing by rain to. (In DD is mantion abaut this.) so lethal for Treat is rather chemical reaction
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Old Nov 24 2008, 03:50 PM   #75
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You are right there, asna. The combination water and Thread is lethal. Your post made me think however, how lethal and does it ivolve a chemical reaction?

It drowns in water but does a mere coming in contact with water like rain "wounds" Thread?

And what is the chemical reaction...?
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Old Nov 25 2008, 12:33 PM   #76
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Maybe on Thread are some kind of free sulphur or nitrogen ( or thread breathe out sulphur like some kind of bacterium) and with woter arised H2SO4 or HNO3 like in aicid rain ?
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Old Nov 30 2008, 03:51 AM   #77
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I don't think "storm" meant rain and thread..... but was meant as an intensifier. storms being bad things usually.... Dragonsdawn did have a squall and thread intersection. it made it so the thread couldn't burrow, but it didn't save the plant life at the site.
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Old Nov 30 2008, 03:53 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Rider 16 View Post
Here's the exact quote, "Southern dragonriders turned out to be useful after all, despite the land's defenses--in the form of those amazing grubs--against Thread. After a storm of nasty tangles ripped through some of the dense forests, Weyrleader T'gellan increased sweepriders, and even Lord Toric, once he had seen the damage done by a series of tangles, lost his complacence and organized ground crews." pg. 278-279 American edition(Not as sure whether it's American or British, bought it in Canada, we usuallly get one or the other. Most clues seem to point to it being American.)
Thanks for finding that. I think this is the reference I was looking for, but also tied in a few other mentions of people being cautious to build a picture. if the thread didn't hit ground immediately, the grubs couldn't devour the thread.
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Old Dec 2 2008, 02:45 PM   #79
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Quote:
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You are right there, asna. The combination water and Thread is lethal. Your post made me think however, how lethal and does it ivolve a chemical reaction?

It drowns in water but does a mere coming in contact with water like rain "wounds" Thread?

And what is the chemical reaction...?
I'm sure in DD they mention how lucky they were that there was a squall, I think it might have been the second thread. I'm fairly certain the rain kills it, or at least helps the people, as in DD there is a lot about it.
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Old Dec 24 2008, 02:43 AM   #80
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Thread drowns show up as clumps of death blacken Thread, blown around by the winds.

Crackdust Blackdust = death thread?
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