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Old Aug 22 2006, 08:23 PM   #41
Chimaerrha
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Default Re: Dragon size references

A few more size references:

SoP online: "Tai vaulted between the last 2 neck ridges...". p. 124 paperback...

I think Tai is tall, so maybe that helps.

DB:

Paperback

p. 160. "[Lorana] crouched by Arith's head and [scratched her eye ridges]."

I know DB is faulty.
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Old Aug 23 2006, 12:42 PM   #42
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Default Re: Dragon size references

Quote:
Oh, how marvelous, Alessan!" Moreta swung her right leg over and behind her and dropped down Arith's side. Fortunately, for Arith was rather higher than she had thought, Alessan caught her about the waist and eased her to the ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff View Post
Oooh, great one! That seems to fit in with a 30 foot long blue, if Alessan reached all the way up to where Moreta was sitting on Arith's neck.
It seems to me that she jumped without judging, and he caught her on the way down.
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Old Sep 21 2006, 09:14 AM   #43
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Default Re: Dragon size references

I have been wondering about this question in ages.
I have read somewhere on the net, that Ramoth should be 45 feet long.

(She could just have written it in one of the books!)
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Old Sep 24 2006, 05:03 PM   #44
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Default Re: Dragon size references

While I know this is not helpin' much, it seems plausible to me....

COLOR LENGTH WINGSPAN HEIGHT
Gold 38 - 42 m (125 - 140 ft) 63 - 70 m (210 - 230 ft) 16 - 18 m (53 to 57 ft)
Bronze 35 - 38 m (115 - 125 ft) 58 - 63 m (190 - 210 ft) 15 - 16 m (49 to 53 ft)
Brown 30 - 35 m (100 - 115 ft) 50 - 58 m (165 - 190 ft) 13 - 15 m (42 to 49 ft)
Blue 25 - 30 m (82 - 100 ft) 41 - 50 m (135 - 165 ft) 11 - 13 m (35 to 42 ft)
Green 20 - 25 m (66 - 82 ft) 33 - 41 m (110 - 135 ft) 9 - 11 m (28 to 35 ft)

http://dragonridersclub.com/
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Old Sep 24 2006, 05:36 PM   #45
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Default Re: Dragon size references

yeah, that's the sizes given in Moreta and the DLG, which Anne has since said are entirely wrong, they were meant to be in feet not meters.
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Old Sep 24 2006, 05:39 PM   #46
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Default Re: Dragon size references

Oooohh...*bangs head* Makes sense. Thankee.
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Old May 11 2007, 06:57 PM   #47
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Default Re: Dragon size references

*resuscitates discussion*

Some of you on the KT may have already seen this, but here's a chart I made a while ago, (sorry for the small font size, if you click "download" to the left, you'll see it larger) incorporating as many quotes as I could find and trying to find a way to make as many as possible fit together.

Thoughts?
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Old May 14 2007, 06:12 AM   #48
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Default Re: Dragon size references

Wow!
That's a good chart and it even matches the mansize head references for Ramoth (What I use during my abortive attempts to draw more of a dragon)
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Old May 14 2007, 07:04 PM   #49
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Default Re: Dragon size references

Actually, in that picture her head is more like 8 feet long, rather than 6 as stated in the book, but to make it fit with everything else, some things have to be bent a bit. And I doubt that Anne had any visual charts to refer to, otherwise there wouldn't be so many contradictions So there has to be a little wiggle room in some of her descriptions where they may not have been spot on.
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Old May 15 2007, 04:28 AM   #50
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ah ha- my faulty vision then
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Old Sep 27 2007, 04:25 PM   #51
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Default Re: Dragon size references


Look, this letter is from me:

http://toddmccaffrey.org/todd/?p=853

I have not visited Todd's site in a while, so today I decided to, and found out that Tood has answered a letter from me (Asta) about the sizes of dragons.

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Old Oct 21 2007, 01:25 PM   #52
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Default Re: Dragon size references

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Lilith's rider View Post

Look, this letter is from me:

http://toddmccaffrey.org/todd/?p=853

I have not visited Todd's site in a while, so today I decided to, and found out that Tood has answered a letter from me (Asta) about the sizes of dragons.

Hmm, it seems he doesn't quite give an answer. But he does have a point about the movie. It's going to be interesting to see how big the dragons are in the movie.

Personally, I've never given it much thought exactly how big the dragons are. I think I picture them in the most apropriate size for the task at hand. If it's a bathing scene then they aren't too big, and if they are flying they are quite bigger.
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Old Apr 13 2017, 05:13 PM   #53
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Default Re: Dragon size references

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff View Post
*resuscitates discussion*

Some of you on the KT may have already seen this, but here's a chart I made a while ago, (sorry for the small font size, if you click "download" to the left, you'll see it larger) incorporating as many quotes as I could find and trying to find a way to make as many as possible fit together.

Thoughts?
I actually think there shouldn't be that much difference in size between the gold and bronzes and the other colors. I especially think the blues and greens are WAAAAY to small. Think about it this way. If there really was such a size difference between the bronzes and blues and greens, then there would have been no possibility of greens and blues being ridden for many, many years. You have greens as half the size of golds and about 40% smaller than bronzes. Now, translate that into the sizes of the original dragons. If Carenath is the same height as Cricket, who was 16 hands (or 64 inches), then a green, at 40% his size, would only be 9.6 hands (or 38.4 inches). That's only a little over 3 feet tall! That would be like an adult trying to ride a Shetland pony.

It makes more sense if the size difference between each color is the same as that between a gold and a bronze, or about 5%, so that greens are only 15-20% smaller than bronzes. Blues would be closer to the size you have browns. With that size ratio, the earliest greens would be about 13.6 hands (or 54.4 inches), the size of a pony, which would be very feasible for riding, considering that the first green riders were female.
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Old Apr 17 2017, 12:03 AM   #54
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Default Re: Dragon size references

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarciH View Post
I actually think there shouldn't be that much difference in size between the gold and bronzes and the other colors. I especially think the blues and greens are WAAAAY to small. Think about it this way. If there really was such a size difference between the bronzes and blues and greens, then there would have been no possibility of greens and blues being ridden for many, many years.
And not to put too fine a point on it, with that level of disparity, a bronze mating with a green (which happens, especially with the female-ridden greens) would be...uncomfortable. Not to mention unlikely--the green would be so small the bronze would literally have trouble maneuvering in a mating flight. Yes, you get small dog/large dog or pony/horse crosses, but it's rarely a case of a huge male assaulting a tiny female. At those proportions bronze/green would be like a Belgian stallion trying to breed a Hackney pony.
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Old Jun 27 2017, 09:39 PM   #55
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Default Re: Dragon size references

Does this answer from Todd to another fan letter where he mentions Ruth help at all?

Quote:
I will say, that when I was flying my Piper Tomahawk, I had a feel for what it would be like on something as small as Ruth. (One of these days we’ll get a flying blog set up and I’ll upload some pictures.)
http://pernhome.com/tjm/?p=38
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Old Apr 27 2019, 12:30 AM   #56
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Default Re: Dragon size references

In regards to the ship reference about size: The Bluenose, a Canadian fishing and racing schooner, was 34 m at the waterline and had a crew of twenty. A twenty-five meter ship could have a crew of 14-15 for fishing trips, but a skeleton crew of four could sail it, if needed.

I suspect that a 'dragon length' as a unit of measurement first arose during the construction of the weyrs. The miners wanted to know how big to make the individual weyr and were told that the largest size would be about 20m, nose to tail. Each dragon chamber, therefore, was cut a 'dragon length' deep.
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Old Apr 29 2019, 02:08 AM   #57
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Default Re: Dragon size references

I have references to watch-wher sizes if that helps? Hang on, I stuck them in a letter to Todd asking for clarification about it. He hasn't replied back yet, but he might not be able to anyway given just how many letters he gets.

Here's the part about whers and dragons, the rest was asking about why they stopped adding glossaries to the books:

Quote:
Confusion from Dragon's Fire

Hi! Big fan of Pern with a rather long letter. I loved your mother's books, may she rest in peace beyond Between, and although yours were an acquired taste, I've come to enjoy them as well. However, I do have some questions for you:

How big are the watchwhers and dragons supposed to be here? You said in a Q&A to another fan about whers:

“Watch-wher golds are bigger than both green and blue dragons. I don’t know how a watch-wher gold stacks up against a brown dragon, I’m pretty sure a watch-wher gold is smaller than a bronze and I’m certain that a gold watch-wher (even Third Pass) is smaller than a gold dragon.” ~ Todd McCaffrey

But in Dragon's Fire it says of a bronze dragon:

"Shortly the dragon landed and Pellar realized once again how huge bronze dragons could be. The dragon’s head was nearly twice as tall as Pellar and its body could easily have circled three, maybe four, of the traders’ large workdrays." ~ Dragon's Fire, page 167

When you say "workdrays" I assumed you meant the wagons instead of draft horses, because the beasts pulling them are never mentioned, so I looked up how big a wagon is. The only type I could find a size for that seemed to fit is a Conestoga wagon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conestoga_wagon which is 18 feet long and 4 wide. So I worked out the circumference of the circle that dragon would make using pie times 2 times the radius (half the wagon length, since the three would be broadside but the length of one wagon would still be the bigger number).

If I did the math right (math is my bane!) that dragon is bigger than Ramoth! If you're using feet to measure them anyway (76 feet!). If you're using meters though, that dragon is 17 meters. It's said to be a "large" bronze, so near the big end of the size group (15-20?), which would make a gold dragon 18-22 (going by the size scale from A Dragonlover's Guide to Pern.

If a gold watchwher is the size of a 9th Pass brown dragon, as you seem to indicate, and you are measuring the dragons in meters, then a gold wher would be bigger than a gold dragon!

Did the dragons actually reach their pre-programmed size in the 2nd Interval / 3rd Pass instead of the 6th like other fans think? In Dragonsblood, when looking at the skeleton of the dead young gold dragon from the future, it was commented that she was about as big as dragons were expected to get. So it took 30 generations to reach their designed size? Did they stay that way until the 9th Pass? I haven't read Moreta: Dragonlady of Pern or Nerilka's Story yet, so I don't know anything about the 6th Pass.

How big did green wher Kisk get, by the way? In Dragon's Kin it says she was 12 hands tall at the shoulder and 40 long (4 feet high and 13 long) at 3 months old. From the math I did figuring out that she grew 3 hands (1 foot) a week, if she kept growing at that rate for all 5 months [that they expected to reach her full growth], she would be 21 feet long and 7 high at the shoulder. The length of a small 9th Pass green (if shorter). But it says that they expected her to grow in "height" not length, so the tallest she could grow in height while still being 13 feet long is 4 1/2 feet at the shoulder. If she's an average green, that puts them in the 10-15 foot range which lines up with my estimate of wher sizes if the gold is the size of a 9th Pass brown dragon in feet (30-35ft). But if whers are measured in meters with the gold being 30-35 meters, Kisk would be a runt! Nowhere near even 20 meters (65ft)!

So... What's going on here? I'm very confused about that bronze dragon. I did find it interesting though that watchwhers are 3 times longer than they are tall at the shoulders while dragons are twice as long as they are tall at the shoulders.

Also that "meters vs feet" debate is going to go on *forever*! >_< I myself was convinced it was meters until I realized that would make even the smallest dragons *the size of blue whales*! Even if half the dragon's length is tail, that's just... I have no words... O_O Caring for a 20 to 42 *foot* creature would be hard enough (bigger than elephants and giraffes), but something 3 times as big?! Also I now know how long a "dragonlength" is in the 9th Pass: It's either 22.5 feet (average size of a 9th Pass green in feet), or 22.5 meters (73 feet, average size of a 9th Pass green in meters).
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Old Apr 29 2019, 02:11 AM   #58
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Default Re: Dragon size references

I think I might have gotten the math wrong though in measuring that dragon. Would someone please check that for me?
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Old Aug 28 2019, 11:46 PM   #59
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Default Re: Dragon size references

To CuriousFlit: I will point out that 'encircled' does not necessarily mean 'in a circle'. The perimeter of three wagons of that size would be 60 feet, and four would have a perimeter of 68 feet. A 76 foot long(nose to tail tip) dragon would be able to encircle them.

A dragon which is 25 yards long(75 feet) would be 23 metres long (22.86 to be exact) with the extra foot making it just over 23 m. We are talking about large animals, so I wouldn't quibble about a few centimetres. (*_^)
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