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Old Jan 13 2006, 04:57 PM   #81
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Old Jan 25 2006, 02:42 PM   #82
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Just a guestie... but what about Mark = Money?
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Old Jan 25 2006, 03:31 PM   #83
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Good one err... thingy?
I'll add that one right away!

And, be welcome and DO register, please
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Old Jan 25 2006, 05:51 PM   #84
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Yes please register!
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Old Feb 8 2006, 12:22 PM   #85
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Hans,

Just finished Masterharper of Pern and there were a couple of things you might want to add to your list......

birthing day = birthday
espousal = engagement

Robinton makes Kasia a harp for her birthing day to hopefully become espoused to her.
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Old Feb 8 2006, 03:09 PM   #86
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

The second is valid without a doubt but not specially Pernese as it was used on Terra, too. It's worth to add though.

Birthing day could be added but I am sure I also read about Pernese people having their nameday Now you brought the birthing day to my attention
In The Dolphins of Pern and All the Weyrs of Pern is even spoken of "Swacky's nameday gather" (might that be the same as a birthday feast?).

So I think I'll add all three
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Old Feb 8 2006, 04:02 PM   #87
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Isn't a naming ceremony something like a Christening? (both these are Terran)
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Old Feb 8 2006, 07:23 PM   #88
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A Christening has religious meaning behind it, so I don't think it's at all akin to a naming ceremony.
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Old Feb 9 2006, 03:55 PM   #89
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I think espousal refers to the actual marriage ceremony.
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Old Feb 9 2006, 04:04 PM   #90
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If we're doing masterharper, how about Espoused/Married?
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Old Feb 10 2006, 03:59 AM   #91
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Hmm, yes, both Becky and Brenda are right. When looked up (click here) there seems to be espousal in the sense of bethrotal (engagement) and marriage (bridal).

Myt, we are "doing" all books so your remark is valid and I'll also have to add spouse for partner. I always thought the female partner was meant my spouse but learned from the Pern books that it can indicate either partner and that it actually means: a person's partner in marriage.

So, I think I'll correct accordingly.
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Old Feb 11 2006, 11:36 AM   #92
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Reading Dragonquest at the moment and toward the end of Chapter V, just after Jaxom awakes from the inter gas from the hidden rooms, it says "... even if he were not quite Turned twelve and...".
This goes along with year = Turn but I thought it an interesing way of saying almost 12 years old.

Also in Dragonquest in Chapter VI, Kylara and Meron are waiting for fire-lizard eggs to hatch and she's thinking about why one Hatching candidate gets picked over another candidate. She says Wirenth made a skyline directly to Brekke.
I've always said beeline in that sort of situation. Has anyone ever said skyline?
skyline = beeline?
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Old Feb 12 2006, 05:48 AM   #93
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Aahhh... Becky, we must explain to the non US readers that what you are quoting is only in the US books as what you are pointing out is one of the passages that is not appearing in UK editions.

The whole part from "...how they are to capture these fire lizards." to "You dont capture them...", i.e. Kylara's musings given underneath as a quote, does not appear in the UK versions. I found this out when I was discussing the queens and their riders in relation to the Dragon population with Hartley Patterson (who sadly discontinued his Pern pages after Anne accepted the Ron L. Hubbard Award as he is very anti-scientology) a few years ago.

We are talking about quite a bit of informative text here:
Quote:
It never troubled Kylara that even after nine Turns in a Weyr and seven Turns as a Weyrwoman herself, she could not have given the criteria by which one candidate was accepted by a dragon and another, discernibly as worthy, was rejected by an entire Hatching.* Nor why the queens invariably chose women raised outside the Weyr.* (For instance, at the time that boy-thing Brekke had Impressed Wirenth, there had been three other girls, any of whom Kylara would have thought considerably more interesting to a dragonette queen.* But Wirenth had made a skyline directly to the craftbred girl.* The three rejected candidates had remained at Southern Weyr — any girl in her right mind would — and one of them, Varena, had been presented at the next queen Impression and taken.* One simply couldn’t judge.)* Generally speaking, weyrbred lads were always acceptable at one Hatching or another, for a weyrboy could attend Hatchings until he was in his twentieth Turn.* No one was ever required to leave his Weyr, but those few who did not become riders usually left, finding places in one of the crafts.
Now, of course, with Benden and Southern Weyrs producing more dragons’ eggs than the Weyrwomen bore babies, it was necessary to range Pern to find enough candidates to stand on the Hatching Grounds.* Evidently a commoner simply couldn’t realize that the dragons, usually the browns or bronzes, did the choosing, not their riders.
There seemed to be no accounting for draconic tastes.* A well-favored commoner might find himself passed over for the skinny, the unattractive.
Kylara looked around the hall, at the variety of anxious expressions on the rough men assembled.* It could be hoped that fire lizards weren’t as discriminating as dragons for there wasn’t much to offer them in this motley group.* Then Kylara remembered that that brat of Brekke’s had Impressed three.* In that case, anything on two legs in this room would stand a chance.* It had been handed them, their one big opportunity to prove that Dragonkind did not need special qualities for Impression, that common Pernese of Holds and Crafts need only be exposed to dragons to have the same chance as the elite of the Weyrs.
To answer your question: I actually think this is something that escaped the American text editors and honestly think it should be beeline as a skyline isn't even the straight line meant in the context of the story. So a simple honest mistake I think but it is a pity that we can't check if the UK editor would have caught it

I also looked at some other editions (which I hadn't done before).
The Dutch edition of Dragonquest (yes, I'm an archivist after all) but that obviously has the UK version as its source since it is also missing the text above The passage is also missing in the French edition and in the German one. Seems foreign editors all look to the UK editions?
Just to be sure I checked the latest American edition I have (the 49th DelRey paperback printing with the Maier cover) and sure it had the "musing" passage.

This is my kind of fun And let me tell you, I haven't caught them all, but this isn't the only difference between the UK and US edition of Dragonquest. This is the reason why I originally started colelcting Pern books in both editions; things really went from "bad to worse" from there
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Old Feb 12 2006, 06:32 PM   #94
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Well, they aren't supposed to have bees on Pern so "beeline" would not be in anyone's vocabulary!
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Old Feb 12 2006, 11:30 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenda
Well, they aren't supposed to have bees on Pern so "beeline" would not be in anyone's vocabulary!
Well pointed Brenda! Hans, back to you! On this issue anyway.

In Dragonquest there is a reference to an idea dying a-hatching which would be akin to me having an idea dying a-borning. Correct? Now as to where that reference is, I can't remember! It's somewhere in Ch 7 - 10, but I went back trying to find it and couldn't! Grrr, didn't have a pen or paper handy when read it. Sorry!
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Old Feb 13 2006, 02:04 PM   #96
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Oh GOOD point Brenda! Another insect then? Skyline doesn't really sound well. Aren't trundlebugs always moving in a straight line until they are deveated by something that is in their way?

Becky, the quote you are looking you'll find in chapter XI, low on page 215 in the US paperback edition.

It does help tohave them all as eBooks, too!
although you still have to find it in the real book to give the right page number

But how to put this in a concordance and should we? didn't I say to another poster we weren't looking for verbs...? It should appear in the Pern Encyclopedia, that's for sure!
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Old Feb 13 2006, 02:51 PM   #97
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

If it's the Pern Encylcopedia then it wouldn't need a seperate concordance, would it?

And trundlebug-line sounds odd to me... Maybe flightline? Bees don't even really travel straight either anyway.
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Old Feb 13 2006, 03:16 PM   #98
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I agree it sounds weird, but it's what Anne called it. Seems to me it should be included as is, though if she only used it once you can note that too!
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Old Feb 13 2006, 06:05 PM   #99
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Trundlebug line doesn't sound as graceful and airy as skyline and beeline! Trundlebugs just aren't very pleasant critters (especially when you try to turn them... )
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Old Feb 13 2006, 11:12 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenda
Trundlebug line doesn't sound as graceful and airy as skyline and beeline! Trundlebugs just aren't very pleasant critters (especially when you try to turn them... )
I agree, Brenda!
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Old Feb 14 2006, 12:30 AM   #101
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other bugs perhaps?
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Old Apr 2 2006, 05:39 AM   #102
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How about Earth-Pern? I know that in RSR it says that Jemmy translates "Earth" to "Pern"
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Old Apr 2 2006, 01:25 PM   #103
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Sorry Myt, that's more about similarities that a synonym. An Earth isn't always a Pern and vice versa
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Old Apr 2 2006, 02:37 PM   #104
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Lady Maelin! You almost had another one!
Quote:
From The Renegades of Pern
Jayge kept his eyes on the cloud as he raced back. What were those gouts of flame? It looked like thousands of flameflies, the nocturnal creatures he and his friends had tried to capture in Nerat's lush jungles."
Flameflies = fire flies, also called 'lightning bugs' where I grew up in Pennsylvania.

I think wherry is fairly synonymous with bird. If it flies and isn't a dragon or a fire-lizard, they call it a wherry.
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Old Apr 3 2006, 05:48 AM   #105
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Yes, but are all birds omnivorous?
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Old Apr 3 2006, 07:30 AM   #106
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Huh? What does their diet have to do with birds being wherries and wherries being birds?

I do, however, remember having a debate about birds and wherries before, though I don't remember how it was resolved, or even if it was resolved, nor do I even remember which side I was arguing on, so I guess I'll just have to argue both sides.

I misspoke above. An argument for wherries being a variety of species is the fact that while there're undoubtedly flying wherries, there also seems to be a flightless variety commonly kept by Holders. It'd be kinda difficult to keep your flock of wherries around if they were capable of flying away. And before anyone suggest that the holders somehow clip their wings, remember there's a scene in TWD where Jaxom and Ruth hunt wild wherries in the Southern Continent by running them down.

A counterargument supporting the idea that wherries are all a single species appears in DragonSong.
Quote:
From DragonSong
Alemi shot him a long amused look. “Let’s say I can’t think what else it could’ve been. They weren’t wherries: too fast, too small, and wherries can’t maneuver that way. But fire lizards?” He laughed and shrugged his shoulders, indicating his own skepticism.
It requires some interpretation, but Alemi seems to discount the possibility of finch-sized wherries, and magpie-sized wherries, and albatross-sized wherries. Instead, Alemi is more prepared to believe that he saw a mythical fire-lizard than any smaller variety of wherry.

But regardless of whether there are many bird-like creatures all referred to as wherries, or whether there's only one species of wherry which happens to be the only bird-like creature on Pern, the result is the same. 'Birds', by the way, is also still used on Pern.

I also don't remember what the consensus was on redfruit being apples, though I'm of the opinion that they're not the same.

And while you're trying to figure that out, here are some less controversial synonyms.

Necessary – Lavatory
Distance-viewer – Telescope
Distance-writer – Telegraph
fine-viewer – Microscope
fingerroots – carrots (possibly)
gitar – guitar
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Old Apr 3 2006, 02:43 PM   #107
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

It's also possible there were only one or two types of wherries that lived in the area near Half-Circle Seahold, and Alemi knew none of them would be small enough to explain what he had seen.

Redfruits always sound way too juicy to be apples - and they have red juice, which stains Menolly's tunic in DSi. They are described as "oddly-shaped" when they are being passed around the table. I always picture something like a mango.
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Old Apr 3 2006, 02:55 PM   #108
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I've added most of your short list Chris and also the flamefly. I'm not convinced about the wherry - bird thing; certainly needs more thought and discussion. Can't remember from the top of my head but I guess the term bird will have been used once or twice in Anne's Pern books?

I agree on the redfruits, they're not apples, way too juicy indeed. I always pictured some sort of red grapefruit variety for them. Doesn't it say "tangy taste" somewhere? Mango also sound good.

For now I also left fingerroot out. I know carrots are not mentioned in the Pern books (checked that a long time ago) but fingerroots need not be exactly the same as carrots. Anybody remember anything said about their taste?
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Old Apr 3 2006, 04:49 PM   #109
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

fingerroots could also be parsnips, or a particular type of potato...
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Old Apr 3 2006, 07:36 PM   #110
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This is kinda embarrassing, but where are 'fingerroots' mentioned? I ran a search through DF, DQ, TWD, Moreta, Nerilka, RoP, AtWoP, DoP, MHoP, DE/RSR, CoP, and DSinger without finding any mention of fingerroots.

And back to the wherries, yes 'birds' is used often while describing wherries. And let's see ... in the beginning of DF there's mention of a cock crowing. That's the only not-definitely-wherry bird that I can think of in the later Pass books.

Oh, and the distance viewer is also referred to as a far-viewer in a few instances.
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Old Apr 4 2006, 04:01 AM   #111
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I'll add the far viewer and will search for the fingerroot.
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Old Apr 4 2006, 04:47 AM   #112
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In Dragondrums, doesn't it say something about Piemur eating an orange fruit? That could be a mango. Or maybe an orange
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Old Apr 4 2006, 02:27 PM   #113
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Or maybe a native Pern fruit! It wasn't barren, ya know.
And I've always thought tubers were potatoes, while fingerroots sound more like carrots.
Did we get rivergrains/rice yet?
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Old Apr 4 2006, 03:58 PM   #114
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

I've found the reference to fingerroots ... in the DLG. Under the Nabol Hold section:
Quote:
From The Dragonlover's Guide to Pern
Nabol has rich grasslands, on which the Nabolese raise ovines and domestic wherries. Like Lemos and upper Telgar, Nabol is experimenting in forestry to propagate the valuable and sought-after pine, ash, and other softwoods for furniture. Willow trees grow along the river flowing through the Esvay Valley, and lavender and mustard do well on the slopes nearby. The sandy soil is also suitable for tubers and root vegetables, and salad vegetable of all kinds: celery, brassicae, greens, and fingerroots (carrots).
I can't remember seeing it in any of the novels, so unless someone else finds a reference, I think we can disregard this one.
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Old Apr 4 2006, 04:30 PM   #115
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I can't find "finger root" or "fingerroot" either, Chris.

Myt, one of the references in Dragondrums says:
Quote:
Piemur did not remember picking the fruit: he did remember the incredibly delicious, wet, tangy taste of the orange-yellow meat as he tore juicy segments out of the rind and crammed them into his moisture-starved mouth. The juice stung his cracked lips, but it seemed to revive the rest of him.
Would you describe the fruit of an orange as orange-yellow?

Later we read:
Quote:
Wearily he built a pile of rocks to mark the spot and then pulled himself back to the jungle, using the light to locate a tree with orange fruit. The first few he batted down from the branches with a long stick were too hard to be edible, another fell with a liquid splot. He scooped up the overripe fruit and swallowed it down, grimacing at the slightly rancid taste. Then he managed, after several more attempts, to get two edible fruits. Barely satisfied, he propped himself against the tree's trunk and slept fitfully through the night.
Does this description fit oranges as we know them?

More important is this quote:
Quote:
Then he noticed the thick vines clinging to tree trunks and viewed the thorns on the orange fruit trees with new sight.
Orange trees with thorns?
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Old Apr 5 2006, 06:41 PM   #116
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Well, Osage Orange trees have thorns!!! They're not real oranges, though!

The first quote sounds like an orange to me - juicy segmants in a rind...

The "herds" of wherries always sound something like an emu in size/shape. I remember distinctly that in DQ when Pridith is eating after Kylara has neglected her that she catches "an enormous fowl". But "fowl" could be ubiquitous for wherries as well as birds.

We know there was success with the chickens.

How difficult is it to make bread, cakes, etc. without eggs? Just thought of that!
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Old Apr 8 2006, 01:28 PM   #117
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans
I can't find "finger root" or "fingerroot" either, Chris.

Myt, one of the references in Dragondrums says:

Would you describe the fruit of an orange as orange-yellow?

Later we read:

Does this description fit oranges as we know them?

More important is this quote:

Orange trees with thorns?
I know a family who has a tangerine tree in their backyard, and it is quite thorny.

From the sound of it, they must be oranges of some sort, especially the mention of segments.

They could also be a hybrid fruit.
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Old Apr 8 2006, 03:25 PM   #118
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Aye MR, so it is by no means sure what they are exactly. There's not enough evidence to say: yes, oranges, no doubt.
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Old Apr 8 2006, 04:58 PM   #119
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Well, according to Wikipedia:
Quote:
Orange—specifically, sweet orange—refers to the citrus tree Citrus sinensis and its fruit. The orange is a hybrid of ancient cultivated origin, possibly between pomelo (Citrus maxima) and tangerine (Citrus reticulata). It is a small tree, growing to about 10 m tall, with thorny shoots and evergreen leaves 4-10 cm long. Oranges originated in southeast Asia, in either India or modern day Pakistan, Vietnam or southern China. The fruit of Citrus sinensis is called sweet orange to distinguish it from Citrus aurantium, the bitter orange.
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Old Apr 9 2006, 07:39 AM   #120
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Default Re: Pernese versus Terran terms

Hmm, and here I've always thought tangerines were a hybrid of oranges. But what the heck is a pomelo?
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